H Alan, Thanks for that. All I am going on at the moment is a typed list of details from the Bunbury, Cheshire Banns Book for 1859-1900 that someone very kindly sent to me. Perhaps I need to get myself to Bunbury or wherever the book is kept to see the original but I am definitely leaning towards your opinion. Saul or Samuel was obviously not a happy man at the time as the entry in the book states that on 16th Dec 1860 "Banns forbid by Jos. Siddorn's parents he being only 19 1/4 years of age." Joseph SIDDORN was my great grandfather and Saul or Samuel was his father. Thanks again, Alan ---------- From: "Alan Johnson" <alan_mar@lineone.net> To: <ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:47 AM Subject: Saul and Samuel SIDDORN I have been transcribing part of the 1861 census and have seen Samuel shortened to Saml; William to Wm and Henry to Hy, so it's probable that Samuel Siddorn was so shortened and the handwriting mis-read. Alan Johnson