Hi John, Many thanks for your reply, and the gentle 'push' into lateral thinking (never my strong point, takes me a while to get there). I think your point 1. is correct, although I think it must be a half sister to get to the Shipman connection. I've started again with Joseph Powell. So far, I think his baptism shows on Cheshire Parish Register Database as 24 December 1815, son of Isabell Powell, widow of Little Meols. There is a marriage on IGI of Joseph Powell to Isabella Davies on 31 December 1814, St. Peter, Liverpool, so Joseph Powell, snr., must have died between December 1814 and December 1815. The IGI gives a marriage of Isabella Powell to Robert Youd on 23 January 1820, at St. Peter Church, Liverpool. I've checked on Ancestry BMD's, and James Joseph Shipman's birth is registered in Liverpool in 1863, Jul/Aug/Sept qtr. Liverpool. Very oddly, there is a baptism in St. Bridget's, West Kirby on 7 April 1867, James Joseph Shipman, son of James and Mary Shipman, Tailor, Liverpool. Why the delay of nearly four years to baptise him? Lancashirebmd gives a marriage of a James Shipman to Mary Youde in St. Peter, 1862. Was Mary Youde a child of Robert Youd and Isabella Powell (above), which would make her a half-sister to Joseph Powell jnr.? Can anyone place any of the above? Many thanks and regards, Yvonne >> From: eng-merseyside-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-merseyside-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of John Kane Sent: 30 December 2006 10:54 To: eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Powell connection to James Joseph Shipman Yvonne I'm new to this (joined the list yesterday) so apologies for stating the obvious but have you exhausted each of these possibilities? 1. Joseph Powell had a sister who married a Shipman 2. Jane McIver had a sister who married a Shipman 3. Jane McIver's former husband Mr Hughes had a sister married to a Shipman (she'd still refer to him as her nephew) John << On 30/12/06, Yvonne Purdy <von@yvonnepurdy.free-online.co.uk> wrote: > > Dear all, > > In 1881 census Hoose > RG11/3573, folio 34, page 16, schedule 72, Lake Place > > Joseph POWELL, Head, Mar, 67, Fisherman, Hoylake > Jane POWELL, Wife, Mar, 73, Liverpool > William SWIFT, Grandson, Unmar, 22, Baker, Liverpool > John Henry BIRD, Grandson, 10, Scholar, Little Meols > Oscar Jones BIRD, Grandson, 8, Scholar, Little Meols > James Joseph SHIPMAN, Nephew, Unmar, 17, Plumber, Liverpool > > Jane POWELL (formerly HUGHES, nee McIVER) is my 3 x gt. grandmother, with > her second husband Joseph POWELL. > > I have been unable to find the SHIPMAN connection to the > Powell's. Please, > can anyone help? > > Many thanks, > Yvonne

Yvonne It all seems to check out doesn't it? But why this to-ing and fro-ing (before MerseyRail) between the Wirral and Liverpool though? Surely a St Peters in the Meols area of the Wirral wouldn't be described as St Peter's Liverpool. Why didn't Isabella get married to Joseph Powell or to Robert Youd in her home parish (maybe St Bridget's)? On 30/12/06, Yvonne Purdy <von@yvonnepurdy.free-online.co.uk> wrote: > > Hi John, > > Many thanks for your reply, and the gentle 'push' into lateral thinking > (never my strong point, takes me a while to get there). I think your > point > 1. is correct, although I think it must be a half sister to get to the > Shipman connection. > > I've started again with Joseph Powell. So far, I think his baptism shows > on > Cheshire Parish Register Database as 24 December 1815, son of Isabell > Powell, widow of Little Meols. There is a marriage on IGI of Joseph > Powell > to Isabella Davies on 31 December 1814, St. Peter, Liverpool, so Joseph > Powell, snr., must have died between December 1814 and December 1815. > > The IGI gives a marriage of Isabella Powell to Robert Youd on 23 January > 1820, at St. Peter Church, Liverpool. > > I've checked on Ancestry BMD's, and James Joseph Shipman's birth is > registered in Liverpool in 1863, Jul/Aug/Sept qtr. Liverpool. > > Very oddly, there is a baptism in St. Bridget's, West Kirby on 7 April > 1867, > James Joseph Shipman, son of James and Mary Shipman, Tailor, Liverpool. > > Why the delay of nearly four years to baptise him? > > Lancashirebmd gives a marriage of a James Shipman to Mary Youde in St. > Peter, 1862. > > Was Mary Youde a child of Robert Youd and Isabella Powell (above), which > would make her a half-sister to Joseph Powell jnr.? > > Can anyone place any of the above? > > Many thanks and regards, > Yvonne > >> > From: eng-merseyside-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-merseyside-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of John Kane > Sent: 30 December 2006 10:54 > To: eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Powell connection to James Joseph Shipman > > Yvonne > > I'm new to this (joined the list yesterday) so apologies for stating the > obvious but have you exhausted each of these possibilities? > > 1. Joseph Powell had a sister who married a Shipman > 2. Jane McIver had a sister who married a Shipman > 3. Jane McIver's former husband Mr Hughes had a sister married to a > Shipman (she'd still refer to him as her nephew) > > John > << > On 30/12/06, Yvonne Purdy <von@yvonnepurdy.free-online.co.uk> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > In 1881 census Hoose > > RG11/3573, folio 34, page 16, schedule 72, Lake Place > > > > Joseph POWELL, Head, Mar, 67, Fisherman, Hoylake > > Jane POWELL, Wife, Mar, 73, Liverpool > > William SWIFT, Grandson, Unmar, 22, Baker, Liverpool > > John Henry BIRD, Grandson, 10, Scholar, Little Meols > > Oscar Jones BIRD, Grandson, 8, Scholar, Little Meols > > James Joseph SHIPMAN, Nephew, Unmar, 17, Plumber, Liverpool > > > > Jane POWELL (formerly HUGHES, nee McIVER) is my 3 x gt. grandmother, > with > > her second husband Joseph POWELL. > > > > I have been unable to find the SHIPMAN connection to the > > Powell's. Please, > > can anyone help? > > > > Many thanks, > > Yvonne > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Regards John Kane 0773 056 2160 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ Map to our house (3 Lindfield Rd., W5 1QS) here: _/ http://tinyurl.com/byp4p _/ We are directly opposite the Methodist church _/ and next door but one to Duffys Pub _/ (on map, see pin A, first entry in the adverts column). _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Hi Yvonne You wrote :- >Was Mary Youde a child of Robert Youd and Isabella Powell (above), >which >would make her a half-sister to Joseph Powell jnr.? I certainly have a daughter Mary pencilled-in on my family tree in addition to the Elizabeth baptised in West Kirby St Bridget on 10 June 1821 and the Martha born in June 1820 who lived only a matter of three months.. Cheshire BMD has the death of a 48 year-old Isabel YOUDES in 1840 in Birkenhead, leading me to believe that this might be the family in the 1841 Census :- HO107/126/6 folio 12 page 19 Waterloo Place, Birkenhead Robert YOUDS, 45, labourer, Yes (born in county) Ann, 20, Yes Mary, 8, Yes Twenty year-old Ann is a bit of a mystery - possibly a daughter of Robert's from an earlier marriage? In the 1851 Census Robert was of course lodging with his eldest daughter :- HO107 Little Meols, Cheshire Thomas LITTLE, 40, fisherman, CHS Bidston Elizabeth, wife, 30, CHS West Kirby Robert, son, 7, CHS West Kirby Joseph, son, 4, CHS West Kirby Ann, daur, 3, CHS West Kirby Martha, daur, 1, CHS West Kirby Robert YOUDS, lodger, 57, labourer, CHS Thurstaston This couple also had a daughter Isabel, baptised in Hoylake Holy Trinity on 11 August 1854, suggesting that it's the right family. James Joseph SHIPMAN looks to have married Ruth HELLON from Cumberland in Tranmere St Paul in 1884 (Cheshire BMD). A copy of the marriage certificate should give father's name & occupation, but to confirm his mother's identity we'd need a copy of his birth certificate, which looks to be in the June quarter of 1862, ref Liverpool 8b/344. Best regards Gordon From: "Yvonne Purdy" <von@yvonnepurdy.free-online.co.uk> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Powell connection to James Joseph Shipman >Hi John, >Many thanks for your reply, and the gentle 'push' into lateral thinking >(never my strong point, takes me a while to get there). I think your >point >1. is correct, although I think it must be a half sister to get to the >Shipman connection. >I've started again with Joseph Powell. So far, I think his baptism shows >on >Cheshire Parish Register Database as 24 December 1815, son of Isabell >Powell, widow of Little Meols. There is a marriage on IGI of Joseph >Powell >to Isabella Davies on 31 December 1814, St. Peter, Liverpool, so Joseph >Powell, snr., must have died between December 1814 and December >1815. >The IGI gives a marriage of Isabella Powell to Robert Youd on 23 January >1820, at St. Peter Church, Liverpool. >I've checked on Ancestry BMD's, and James Joseph Shipman's birth is >registered in Liverpool in 1863, Jul/Aug/Sept qtr. Liverpool. >Very oddly, there is a baptism in St. Bridget's, West Kirby on 7 April >1867, >James Joseph Shipman, son of James and Mary Shipman, Tailor, >Liverpool. >Why the delay of nearly four years to baptise him? >Lancashirebmd gives a marriage of a James Shipman to Mary Youde in St. >Peter, 1862. >Was Mary Youde a child of Robert Youd and Isabella Powell (above), >which >would make her a half-sister to Joseph Powell jnr.? >Can anyone place any of the above? >Many thanks and regards, >Yvonne

Hi again Yvonne Correction! James Joseph SHIPMAN's birth was in fact registered in the September quarter of 1863 (as stated in your earlier post), the reference being Liverpool 8b/217. Apologies. Gordon

Hi Gordon, Many thanks indeed for the additional information you've sent. That's great. Looking at the 1851 census connection between Robert YOUDS and his daughter Elizabeth married to Thomas LITTLE brings back an old question we had. Did you ever manage to satisfactorily solve the identity of Thomas and Nancy SHERLOCK, 1841 census, Little Meolse: HO107/127/14, Enumeration Schedule 3, page 26 Thomas SHERLOCK, 55, Fisherman, Y Nancy SHERLOCK, 70, Y Thomas LITTLE, 25, Fisherman, Y Elizabeth LITTLE, 19, Y Are Thomas and Elizabeth LITTLE the same two as show in the 1851 census with Robert YOUDS. It certainly looks like it? Best regards, Yvonne >> [mailto:eng-merseyside-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Gordon Evans Sent: 30 December 2006 19:02 To: eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Powell connection to James Joseph Shipman Hi Yvonne You wrote :- >Was Mary Youde a child of Robert Youd and Isabella Powell (above), >which >would make her a half-sister to Joseph Powell jnr.? I certainly have a daughter Mary pencilled-in on my family tree in addition to the Elizabeth baptised in West Kirby St Bridget on 10 June 1821 and the Martha born in June 1820 who lived only a matter of three months.. Cheshire BMD has the death of a 48 year-old Isabel YOUDES in 1840 in Birkenhead, leading me to believe that this might be the family in the 1841 Census :- HO107/126/6 folio 12 page 19 Waterloo Place, Birkenhead Robert YOUDS, 45, labourer, Yes (born in county) Ann, 20, Yes Mary, 8, Yes Twenty year-old Ann is a bit of a mystery - possibly a daughter of Robert's from an earlier marriage? In the 1851 Census Robert was of course lodging with his eldest daughter :- HO107 Little Meols, Cheshire Thomas LITTLE, 40, fisherman, CHS Bidston Elizabeth, wife, 30, CHS West Kirby Robert, son, 7, CHS West Kirby Joseph, son, 4, CHS West Kirby Ann, daur, 3, CHS West Kirby Martha, daur, 1, CHS West Kirby Robert YOUDS, lodger, 57, labourer, CHS Thurstaston This couple also had a daughter Isabel, baptised in Hoylake Holy Trinity on 11 August 1854, suggesting that it's the right family. James Joseph SHIPMAN looks to have married Ruth HELLON from Cumberland in Tranmere St Paul in 1884 (Cheshire BMD). A copy of the marriage certificate should give father's name & occupation, but to confirm his mother's identity we'd need a copy of his birth certificate, which looks to be in the June quarter of 1862, ref Liverpool 8b/344. Best regards Gordon <<