Gordon If it,s beyond you what chance do we have !!!! (I supose we might get lucky ) Cheers George --- On Tue, 7/12/10, Gordon Evans <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> wrote: From: Gordon Evans <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] BRASSEY/DAVIES/DAVIS To: eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com Date: Tuesday, 7 December, 2010, 22:55 Hi Having wrestled with these names for longer than I care to remember, wondered whether there's anyone on the list who enjoys a challenge and can perhaps suggest what the connection might be between DAVIES and BRASSEY in the following scenario? According to the Bidston St Oswald parish registers twin illegitimate sons of Mary DAVIES of Bidston - (i) John and (ii) Joseph - were baptised there on 12 January 1806. (i) John DAVIS of Wallasey married Martha PUGH of Bidston on 7 April 1828 in Bidston St Oswald (one of the witnesses being a J DAVIES), with subsequent children baptised in Bidston St Oswald :- 1830  Joseph (baptised Joseph DAVIS) 1834  Mary (baptised Mary BRASSEY) 1836  John (baptised John BRASSEY) 1839  Elizabeth (baptised Elizabeth DAVIS BRASSR) 1842  William (baptised William DAVIES or BRASSEY) 1841 Census Moreton, Cheshire John BRASSEY, 35, ag labourer, Y (born in Cheshire) Martha, 30, Y Joseph , 10, Y Mary, 7, Y John, 5, Y Elizabeth, 2, Y 1851 Census Saughall, Cheshire John DAVIES, 45, farm labourer, CHS Bidston Martha, wife, 44, CHS West Kirby John, son, 14, CHS Bidston Elizabeth, daur, 12, CHS Bidston William, son, 10, CHS Bidston 1861 Census Saughall Massie, Cheshire John DAVIES, 54, labourer on roads, CHS Bidston Martha, wife, 55, CHS Great Meols Elizabeth PUGH, wife's mother, W, 88, ag lab's widow, CHS Stoke John DAVIES, grandson, 7, CHS Saughall Massie Mary THORNTON, servant, 15, FLN Flint 1871 Census Saughall Massie Martha BRASSEY, W, 65, nurse, CHS Meolse Elizabeth, grandaughter, 9, CHS Saughall Albert J POVEY, nurse child, 2, CHS Birkenhead John (b1806) was buried as John Brassey DAVIES in 1869. His wife Martha nee PUGH was described as Martha BRASSEY when she died in 1879. Their son Joseph (b1830) was buried as Joseph DAVIES in 1860. Their daughter Mary (b1834) was Mary Davis BRASSEY when her illegitimate son John BRASSEY was baptised in 1855; Mary BRASSEY when illegitimate daughter Elizabeth BRASSEY was baptised in 1862, and Mary BRASSEY when she married Harold GODWIN on 14 September 1863 in Liverpool St Nicholas. Their daughter Elizabeth, baptised as Elizabeth DAVIS BROSSR in 1839, was buried as Elizabeth Davis BRASSEY in 1854. Their son William, baptised as William DAVIES or BRASSEY in 1842, was William BRASSEY when he married Elizabeth SHERLOCK on 23 July 1871 in Liverpool St Peter. (ii) Joseph Davies BRASSEY married Margaret DODD on 14 February 1831 in Liverpool St Nicholas and had children baptised in Bidston St Oswald :- 1832  Mary (baptised as Mary DAVIS, married as Mary DAVIES in 1853) 1834  Edward (baptised as Edward BRASSEY, married as below) 1836  Alice (baptised as Alice DAVIS, married as Alice BRASSEY in 1864) 1838  Joseph (baptised as Joseph BRASSEY, buried as Joseph BRASSEY in 1839) 1840  Joseph (baptised as Joseph BRASSEY, married as Joseph BRASSEY in 1863) 1842  George (baptised as George BRASSEY, m as George BRASSEY in 1864) 1844  Margaret (baptised as Margaret BRASSEY al DAVIES, married as below) 1847  Elizabeth (baptised Elizabeth BRASSEY, m as Elizabeth BRASSEY in 1870) 1849  John (baptised John Brassey DAVIS, married as John BRASSEY in 1873) 1851  Thomas (baptised as Thomas BRASSEY al DAVIES, m as Thomas BRASSEY) Joseph & Margaret's family are described as DAVIES in the 1851 Census, but BRASSEY in 1841 & 1861 to 1891. Son Edward (b1834) married as Edward Davies BRASSEY in 1858, but as Edward DAVIES in 1861. Daughter Margaret (b1844) married as Margaret BRASSEY in 1862. Prior to her marriage to Joseph Davies BRASSEY in 1831, Margaret DODD had an illegitimate son baptised William DOD on 28 February 1830 in Bidston St Oswald. This child is described as William BRASSEY in the 1841 Census but as William DAVIES in the 1851. When he marrried Jane PENDLETON on 2 October 1854 in Liverpool St Simon he was William Dodd DAVIES, father Joseph DAVIES. He appears to feature twice in the 1861 Census, thus :- Farmer's Cross, Moreton, Cheshire Joseph BRASSIE, 54, wheelwright, CHS Saughall Massie Margaret, wife, 51, CHS Moreton William, son, U, 30, wheelwright, CHS Moreton Sefton Road, Litherland, Lancashire Richard PENDLETON, W, 65, labourer, LAN Litherland Jane BRASSEY, daur, M, 27, wheelwright's wife, LAN Litherland William BRASSEY, son-in-law, M, 30, wheelwright journeyman, CHS Moreton Richard BRASSEY, grandson, 2, CHS Moreton Robert JONES, grandson, 4, LAN Liverpool Oh, what a tangled web.............. :-) Gordon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message