Hi Jess I've forwarded a copy of your post to my cousin Eve Roberts in Wrexham, one of the leading lights in the campaign to have a commerative statue erected in time for the 200th anniversary of the disaster and mentioned in this newspaper report of the memorial service twelve months ago :- http://url.ie/8i2l For the past two years or so Eve has 'adminned' an ad-hoc mailing lists of around 25 known descendants & relatives - sounds as if you should have been included all along? Surprising how you can stumble across interested parties every now & again - including this on a website which appeared out of the blue not so very long ago :- http://url.ie/8i2n Best regards Gordon From: "Michael Pearce" <lovebug53@virginmedia.com> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 7:05 PM Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Hoylake life boat >Hi listers, have read with interest about the memorial service next week, >and I know that several decendents both direct and indirect, (cousins, by >marriage, etc) willbe attending, myself included. May be there could be >something organised so we could make ourselves known to each other for the >sake of our common ancestors, and our own family research? What do other >listers think? Regards Jess

This is a great idea and I really do hope that those with family interests will try and make arrangements as Jess suggests. I doubt if I will be able to go myself - it would only be from general interest, but I wish you all well. Marged Hi listers, have read with interest about the memorial service next week, and I know that several decendents both direct and indirect, (cousins, by marriage, etc) willbe attending, myself included. May be there could be something organised so we could make ourselves known to each other for the sake of our common ancestors, and our own family research? What do other listers think? Regards Jess No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3319 - Release Date: 12/16/10 07:34:00

Hi listers, have read with interest about the memorial service next week, and I know that several decendents both direct and indirect, (cousins, by marriage, etc) willbe attending, myself included. May be there could be something organised so we could make ourselves known to each other for the sake of our common ancestors, and our own family research? What do other listers think? Regards Jess

Hi and merry Christmas from Oz. Can anyone shed some light on this for me please? My 3xgreat grandfather James Kirkpatrick came from somewhere in Ireland to Liverpool in the early 1800s (I think). He and his wife Mary appear in the 1841 census with 2 sons, Thomas and Andrew, both boys born in Liverpool. The place of birth for James and Mary is 'Ireland' in both the 1841 and 1851 census. James died on the 17th June 1856 in Gray's Warehouse, No 5 Formby Street, Liverpool, I know this as I have the information from the 'Liverpool Mercury', Third Edition, Saturday June 21 1856 under the heading 'Fatal Accident'. I cannot find a death certificate for James even though there was a Coroner's Inquest according to the Liverpool Mercury. I haven't been able to get to the Records Office as I'm in Australia so have relied on Ancestry, IGI, Find my Past, FreeBMD and other on line sources. With such an unusual death and an Inquest why should there be no death certificate? I have been hoping to find some way of finding where James and Mary came from in Ireland. James has been my stumbling block for many years and I would really welcome any help or advice. Thank you Edwina Townsend

Hi Edwina One possible source you don't mention is Lancashire BMD. As you'll see from the message I've appended below the team responsible for transcribing Liverpool area deaths for that project (of which I was a member) completed their task over two years ago. But if you look here :- http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/deathcov.php you'll see that not a single Liverpool event has yet been uploaded to the project's data-base. :-( Team-leader Peter Jolliffe did tell us all that it might be 'some time' before the fruits of our labours appeared on the Lancashire BMD web-site because 'checking is important but very slow'. But if things don't start to happen fairly soon many of us older volunteer transcribers aren't going to be around to witness the 'fruition' if/when takes place! Best wishes Gordon From: "Webmaster" <webmaster@liverpool-genealogy.org.uk> To: "Gordon.W.Evans" <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:02 AM Subject: What next ? Hi all, It seems an age ago we started to transcribe the Liverpool births and the deaths were just a thought. Well I've given out the last death index so that's it for Liverpool. With over 2 million entries transcribed in what seems an incredibly short space of time you have truly moved 2 mountains. I know many of the present generation and all of the future generation will never know of the effort you have all put in, but they will benefit from your help. I cannot thank you all enough for giving up your time and I'm sure Neil Mc Intyre (Liverpool Registrar's Office) will agree. It may be some time before the fruits of your labours appear on the UKBMD website, but they will be there. Checking is important but very slow. I count you all now as friends not just email addresses. Very best wishes and love to you all. Peter Jolliffe From: "John and Edwina Townsend" <jandet31@bigpond.com> To: <ENG-MERSEYSIDE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:39 AM Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] James Kirkpatrick 1781-1856 Hi and merry Christmas from Oz. Can anyone shed some light on this for me please? My 3xgreat grandfather James Kirkpatrick came from somewhere in Ireland to Liverpool in the early 1800s (I think). He and his wife Mary appear in the 1841 census with 2 sons, Thomas and Andrew, both boys born in Liverpool. The place of birth for James and Mary is 'Ireland' in both the 1841 and 1851 census. James died on the 17th June 1856 in Gray's Warehouse, No 5 Formby Street, Liverpool, I know this as I have the information from the 'Liverpool Mercury', Third Edition, Saturday June 21 1856 under the heading 'Fatal Accident'. I cannot find a death certificate for James even though there was a Coroner's Inquest according to the Liverpool Mercury. I haven't been able to get to the Records Office as I'm in Australia so have relied on Ancestry, IGI, Find my Past, FreeBMD and other on line sources. With such an unusual death and an Inquest why should there be no death certificate? I have been hoping to find some way of finding where James and Mary came from in Ireland. James has been my stumbling block for many years and I would really welcome any help or advice. Thank you Edwina Townsend

Hi George You wrote :- >what do you know if anything of Geoff Ormerod (Coxswain 1916-1919 ) ? The coxswain of the Hoylake Lifeboat between 1916 & 1919 was in fact Arthur Tom DODD, son of the previous incumbent Thomas DODD. Geoff ORMEROD was coxswain from 1998 until 2001, but I don't have any further information on him, I'm afraid. :-( Incidentally, there is to be a ceremony at the lifeboat station on 22 December (11:00 am) which will include the unveiling of a statue to commemorate the tragedy of exactly 200 years ago, see :- http://url.ie/8hd1 It's anticipated that several direct descendants of the eight men lost in the disaster will be in attendance, one such being our old friend Ricky Cooper, who has promised to sport a prominent name-badge so you can easily pick him out amongst the vast crowds. :-) Best regards Gordon From: "GEORGE HIGHTON" <george.highton@btinternet.com> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] BRASSEY/DAVIES/DAVIS Hi Gordon Allways of Interest what do you know if anything of Geoff Ormerod (Coxswain 1916-1919 ) ? Cheers George From: Gordon Evans <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] BRASSEY/DAVIES/DAVIS To: eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, 13 December, 2010, 9:56 >SNIP>.....The aforementioned Edward DODD's first wife was a Hannah LUNT >(b1770 Parkgate), who bore him just one child Thomas (b1793 Moreton) before her death in 1797, aged only 27. Thomas (b1793) married firstly Barbara BETHELL, by whom who had six children including a Peter born 1831 in Moreton. Peter DODD (b1831) married Alice HUGHES (b1834 Hoose) in 1855 and had just the one child Thomas (b1856 Liverpool) before he was killed in a tragic accident less than two months later, aged 26. Thomas DODD (b1856 Liverpool), who married my 3rd cousin twice removed Mary Jane SHERLOCK (b1850 Hoose) on 25 April 1879 in Hoylake Holy Trinity, was master of the Hoylake lifeboat for some 22 years from 1894 until his death in 1916, as can be seen at :- http://www.hoylakelifeboat.org.uk/history.htm Hope a few list members might find this of some interest? Regards Gordon

I wrote earlier :- >I haven't as yet found anything which would positively link John PERRY with >Wirral, but it does seem strange that both his American-born daughters >should have crossed the Atlantic to marry in St Peter's church in >Rock Ferry within four years of each other? Don't know about Annie Eliza, but it would seem that Sarah Jane PERRY was in Wirral because her Leicestershire-born aunt Mary Ann WESTON had married widower Thomas BARROW on 20 August 1868 in Bebington St Andrew :- 1881 Census 20 Rock Lane, Higher Bebington, Cheshire Thomas BARROW, 68, coal merchant, born CHS Weaverham Mary A, wife, 45, born Leicestershire Swannington Peter BARROW, nephew, 20, salt merchant, born Dover Castle Sarah Jane PERRY, niece, 19, born Indiana USA (British Subject) Samuel R BARROW, nephew, 15, born Sussex Brighton Fanny J BARROW, niece, 11, born Cheshire Weaverham The marriage entry lists bride's father as John WESTON, farmer, suggesting that this might be her with her family earlier in life :- 1861 Census Leicester Turnpike, Hugglescote, Leicestershire John WESTON, 55, farmer of 100 acres, born LEI Hugglescote Sarah, wife, 50, born LEI Hugglescote Mary Ann, daur, 24, U, teacher in national school, born LEI Swannington Thomas, son, 18, asst clerk at colliery, born LEI Swannington Emma, daur, 16, born LEI Swannington Fanny, daur, 14, born LEI Swannington 1851 Census Swannington, Leicestershire John WESTON, 46, farmer of 83 acres, born LEI Hugglescote Sarah, wife, 42, born LEI Hugglescote Mary A, daur, 15, born LEI Swannington John, son, 12, born LEI Swannington Elizabeth, daur, 10, born LEI Swannington Thomas, son, 8, born LEI Swannington Fanny, daur, 4, born LEI Swannington But both Mary Ann and her presumed elder sister Sarah (who married John PERRY) are aggravatingly missing from this one :- 1841 Census Swannington, Leicestershire John WESTON, 35, farmer, Y (born in Leicestershire) Sarah, 30, Y John, 2, Y Elizabeth, 1, Y However, I believe proof-positive that this is the right family lies in these two entries :- 1891 Census 11 Rock Lane East, Bebington Thomas BARROW, 78, own means, CHS Weaverham Mary Ann, 56, LEI Whitwell Fanny Jane, niece, U, 21, milliner, CHS Weaverham Charles T, nephew, 15, CHS Weaverham Georgina HOULDSWORTH, grand-niece, 5, CHS Tranmere 1901 Census 483 New Chester Road, Birkenhead Fanny WESTON, head, 54, U, dressmaker, LEI Swannington Georgina HOULDSWORTH, niece, 15, CHS Rock Ferry Hilda HOULDSWORTH, niece, 13, CHS Rock Ferry A 23 year-old Georgina HOULDSWORTH, occupation tele-operator, arrived in New York from Havana Cuba aboard the SARATOGA on 28 April 1909, final destination stated to be Canada North Bay. A 22 year-old Hilda HOULDSWORTH, occupation governess, arrived in New York from Havana Cuba aboard the HAVANA on 30 August 1910, final destination stated to be New York city. Gordon From: "Gordon Evans" <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] BRASSEY/DAVIES/DAVIS To expand on this a little, Joseph Davies BRASSEY's wife Margaret is believed to have been a daughter of Edward DODD (b1769 Moreton) and his 2nd wife Ally CORFE (b1780 Bidston), who married on 15 June 1800 in Liverpool St Peter and had no fewer than 14 children born in Moreton :- 1801 John 1802 Martha (m William MUMFORD 1826 in Liverpool St Peter) 1804 William (m Elizabeth PEERS 1824 in Woodchurch Holy Cross) 1805 Ann (m Joseph HOULDSWORTH 1829 in Liverpool St Nicholas) 1807 Elizabeth 1809 Margaret (m Joseph Davies BRASSEY 1831 in Liverpool St Nicholas) 1811 Alice (m Joseph MUMFORD 1830 in Liverpool St Peter) 1814 Robert (d1814) 1814 Edward (m Anne ACTON 1836 in Bidston St Oswald) 1816 Susannah 1817 Robert (m Elizabeth DAVIES 1839 in Bidston St Oswald) 1819 Mary 1821 Jane 1822 Joseph (m Alice BENNETT 1842 in Bidston St Oswald). On 8 September 1856, in Wallasey St Hilary, Ann DODD's son William HOULDSWORTH (b1832 Liscard) married my 1st cousin three times removed Georgina EVANS (b1829 Liscard). On 6 July 1885, in Rock Ferry St Peter, William & Georgina's son William James HOULDSWORTH (b1858 New Brighton) married an Annie Eliza PERRY (b1859/60 Wisconsin USA), the couple having a daughter Hilda (1887) and a son Harold (1889) born in Birkenhead & Oxton respectively. The family were together in Birkenhead in the 1891 Census but disappear off the radar thereafter apart from an entry on the Ellis Island site showing a 56 year-old William J, a 52 year-old Annie and a 25 year-old Harold HOULDSWORTH entering New York from Havana (Cuba) on 6 May 1914. Annie had made the same trip alone almost 2 years earlier and William had entered from Mexico (also alone) on 19 September 1913. The Rock Ferry St Peter registers also have the marriage on 30 April 1889 of a Sarah Jane PERRY to a George Edward BOTT - the 1891 Census indicating that George BOTT was born in Leicestershire (Markfield), Sarah Jane in Michigan, USA. Suggesting this might be the latter with her parents & siblings some 19 years earlier :- 1870 US Census Michigan City, Laporte, Indiana John PERRY, 38, butcher, born England Sarah, wife, 36, born England Ann, daur, 10, born Wisconsin Sarah J, daur, 8, born Indiana Thomas E, son, 1, born Indiana Which appears to translate into :- 1860 US Census Michigan City, Laporte, Indiana John H PERRY, 27, labourer, born England Sarah, wife, 25, born England John, son, 5, born England Joseph, son, 2, born Illinois Anna, daur, 5 months, born Wisconsin I haven't as yet found anything which would positively link John PERRY with Wirral, but it does seem strange that both his American-born daughters should have crossed the Atlantic to marry in St Peter's church in Rock Ferry within four years of each other? The aforementioned Edward DODD's first wife was a Hannah LUNT (b1770 Parkgate), who bore him just one child Thomas (b1793 Moreton) before her death in 1797, aged only 27. Thomas (b1793) married firstly Barbara BETHELL, by whom who had six children including a Peter born 1831 in Moreton. Peter DODD (b1831) married Alice HUGHES (b1834 Hoose) in 1855 and had just the one child Thomas (b1856 Liverpool) before he was killed in a tragic accident less than two months later, aged 26. Thomas DODD (b1856 Liverpool), who married my 3rd cousin twice removed Mary Jane SHERLOCK (b1850 Hoose) on 25 April 1879 in Hoylake Holy Trinity, was master of the Hoylake lifeboat for some 22 years from 1894 until his death in 1916, as can be seen at :- http://www.hoylakelifeboat.org.uk/history.htm Hope a few list members might find this of some interest? Regards Gordon

Hello In November 2010, Richard Daglish sent me a copy of the results of his ambitious project to photograph the war graves at Allerton Cemetery, also other memorials at the cemetery that commemorate war dead. I have now added three files that describe the project and contain information about those buried and/or commemorated at Allerton from the CWGC site supplemented by information from other sources to my Allerton web site at http://freepages.misc.rootsweb.com/~ormandy. I'll progressively (and slowly) add the MIs from the photographs that Richard sent me to the site. Cheers, Jeff PS Marj could you please send this to the Liverpool list

Hi Gordon Allways of Interest   what do you know if anything  of Geoff Ormerod (Coxswain 1916-1919 ) ? Cheers George --- On Mon, 13/12/10, Gordon Evans <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> wrote: From: Gordon Evans <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] BRASSEY/DAVIES/DAVIS To: eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, 13 December, 2010, 9:56 To expand on this a little, Joseph Davies BRASSEY's wife Margaret is believed to have been a daughter of Edward DODD (b1769 Moreton) and his 2nd wife Ally CORFE (b1780 Bidston), who married on 15 June 1800 in Liverpool St Peter and had no fewer than 14 children born in Moreton :- 1801  John 1802  Martha (m William MUMFORD 1826 in Liverpool St Peter) 1804  William (m Elizabeth PEERS 1824 in Woodchurch Holy Cross) 1805  Ann (m Joseph HOULDSWORTH 1829 in Liverpool St Nicholas) 1807  Elizabeth 1809  Margaret (m Joseph Davies BRASSEY 1831 in Liverpool St Nicholas) 1811  Alice (m Joseph MUMFORD 1830 in Liverpool St Peter) 1814  Robert (d1814) 1814  Edward (m Anne ACTON 1836 in Bidston St Oswald) 1816  Susannah 1817  Robert (m Elizabeth DAVIES 1839 in Bidston St Oswald) 1819  Mary 1821  Jane 1822  Joseph (m Alice BENNETT 1842 in Bidston St Oswald). On 8 September 1856, in Wallasey St Hilary, Ann DODD's son William HOULDSWORTH (b1832 Liscard) married my 1st cousin three times removed Georgina EVANS (b1829 Liscard). On 6 July 1885, in Rock Ferry St Peter, William & Georgina's son William James HOULDSWORTH (b1858 New Brighton) married an Annie Eliza PERRY (b1859/60 Wisconsin USA), the couple having a daughter Hilda (1887) and a son Harold (1889) born in Birkenhead & Oxton respectively. The family were together in Birkenhead in the 1891 Census but disappear off the radar thereafter apart from an entry on the Ellis Island site showing a 56 year-old William J, a 52 year-old Annie and a 25 year-old Harold HOULDSWORTH entering New York from Havana (Cuba) on 6 May 1914. Annie had made the same trip alone almost 2 years earlier and William had entered from Mexico (also alone) on 19 September 1913. The Rock Ferry St Peter registers also have the marriage on 30 April 1889 of a Sarah Jane PERRY to a George Edward BOTT - the 1891 Census indicating that George BOTT was born in Leicestershire (Markfield), Sarah Jane in Michigan, USA. Suggesting this might be the latter with her parents & siblings some 19 years earlier :- 1870 US Census Michigan City, Laporte, Indiana John PERRY, 38, butcher, born England Sarah, wife, 36, born England Ann, daur, 10, born Wisconsin Sarah J, daur, 8, born Indiana Thomas E, son, 1, born Indiana Which appears to translate into :- 1860 US Census Michigan City, Laporte, Indiana John H PERRY, 27, labourer, born England Sarah, wife, 25, born England John, son, 5, born England Joseph, son, 2, born Illinois Anna, daur, 5 months, born Wisconsin I haven't as yet found anything which would positively link John PERRY with Wirral, but it does seem strange that both his American-born daughters should have crossed the Atlantic to marry in St Peter's church in Rock Ferry within four years of each other? The aforementioned Edward DODD's first wife was a Hannah LUNT (b1770 Parkgate), who bore him just one child Thomas (b1793 Moreton) before her death in 1797, aged only 27. Thomas (b1793) married firstly Barbara BETHELL, by whom who had six children including a Peter born 1831 in Moreton. Peter DODD  (b1831) married Alice HUGHES (b1834 Hoose) in 1855 and had just the one child Thomas (b1856 Liverpool) before he was killed in a tragic accident less than two months later, aged 26. Thomas DODD (b1856 Liverpool), who married my 3rd cousin twice removed Mary Jane SHERLOCK (b1850 Hoose) on 25 April 1879 in Hoylake Holy Trinity, was master of the Hoylake lifeboat  for some 22 years from 1894 until his death in 1916, as can be seen at :- http://www.hoylakelifeboat.org.uk/history.htm Hope a few list members might find this of some interest? Regards Gordon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To expand on this a little, Joseph Davies BRASSEY's wife Margaret is believed to have been a daughter of Edward DODD (b1769 Moreton) and his 2nd wife Ally CORFE (b1780 Bidston), who married on 15 June 1800 in Liverpool St Peter and had no fewer than 14 children born in Moreton :- 1801 John 1802 Martha (m William MUMFORD 1826 in Liverpool St Peter) 1804 William (m Elizabeth PEERS 1824 in Woodchurch Holy Cross) 1805 Ann (m Joseph HOULDSWORTH 1829 in Liverpool St Nicholas) 1807 Elizabeth 1809 Margaret (m Joseph Davies BRASSEY 1831 in Liverpool St Nicholas) 1811 Alice (m Joseph MUMFORD 1830 in Liverpool St Peter) 1814 Robert (d1814) 1814 Edward (m Anne ACTON 1836 in Bidston St Oswald) 1816 Susannah 1817 Robert (m Elizabeth DAVIES 1839 in Bidston St Oswald) 1819 Mary 1821 Jane 1822 Joseph (m Alice BENNETT 1842 in Bidston St Oswald). On 8 September 1856, in Wallasey St Hilary, Ann DODD's son William HOULDSWORTH (b1832 Liscard) married my 1st cousin three times removed Georgina EVANS (b1829 Liscard). On 6 July 1885, in Rock Ferry St Peter, William & Georgina's son William James HOULDSWORTH (b1858 New Brighton) married an Annie Eliza PERRY (b1859/60 Wisconsin USA), the couple having a daughter Hilda (1887) and a son Harold (1889) born in Birkenhead & Oxton respectively. The family were together in Birkenhead in the 1891 Census but disappear off the radar thereafter apart from an entry on the Ellis Island site showing a 56 year-old William J, a 52 year-old Annie and a 25 year-old Harold HOULDSWORTH entering New York from Havana (Cuba) on 6 May 1914. Annie had made the same trip alone almost 2 years earlier and William had entered from Mexico (also alone) on 19 September 1913. The Rock Ferry St Peter registers also have the marriage on 30 April 1889 of a Sarah Jane PERRY to a George Edward BOTT - the 1891 Census indicating that George BOTT was born in Leicestershire (Markfield), Sarah Jane in Michigan, USA. Suggesting this might be the latter with her parents & siblings some 19 years earlier :- 1870 US Census Michigan City, Laporte, Indiana John PERRY, 38, butcher, born England Sarah, wife, 36, born England Ann, daur, 10, born Wisconsin Sarah J, daur, 8, born Indiana Thomas E, son, 1, born Indiana Which appears to translate into :- 1860 US Census Michigan City, Laporte, Indiana John H PERRY, 27, labourer, born England Sarah, wife, 25, born England John, son, 5, born England Joseph, son, 2, born Illinois Anna, daur, 5 months, born Wisconsin I haven't as yet found anything which would positively link John PERRY with Wirral, but it does seem strange that both his American-born daughters should have crossed the Atlantic to marry in St Peter's church in Rock Ferry within four years of each other? The aforementioned Edward DODD's first wife was a Hannah LUNT (b1770 Parkgate), who bore him just one child Thomas (b1793 Moreton) before her death in 1797, aged only 27. Thomas (b1793) married firstly Barbara BETHELL, by whom who had six children including a Peter born 1831 in Moreton. Peter DODD (b1831) married Alice HUGHES (b1834 Hoose) in 1855 and had just the one child Thomas (b1856 Liverpool) before he was killed in a tragic accident less than two months later, aged 26. Thomas DODD (b1856 Liverpool), who married my 3rd cousin twice removed Mary Jane SHERLOCK (b1850 Hoose) on 25 April 1879 in Hoylake Holy Trinity, was master of the Hoylake lifeboat for some 22 years from 1894 until his death in 1916, as can be seen at :- http://www.hoylakelifeboat.org.uk/history.htm Hope a few list members might find this of some interest? Regards Gordon

Hi Marian I've spent not just a day but the best part of ten years 'playing around' with the names BRASSEY and DAVIES and haven't as yet discovered a satisfactory explanation for the 'interchange'. :-( What's particularly odd is that Joseph appears to have called himself Joseph Davies BRASSEY in adult life, whereas his twin was John Brassey DAVIES. Samuel DAVIS' widow Catherine looks to have had an illegitimate child Sarah in 1798 before marrying mason Richard HUDSON on 24 May 1802 in Bidston St Oswald. Thanks for your thoughts, anyway. Gordon From: "Marian Foster" <marianfoster@mypostoffice.co.uk> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:14 PM Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Brassey/Davies/Davis >Hi Gordon, I've spent the day playing around with these names and have >developed some ideas I'd like to try out. First of all was Mary Davis born >Bidstone christened 6 Dec 1789 d/o Samuel and Catharine? If so Samuel dies >in 1795 and although I can't find a second marriage for Catharine (nee >Pemberton) I wonder if she married a Brassey? That might account for the > >duality of names over the years? >My other idea is that Mary herself named a Brassey as the father of her >twins (I notice from the records that Joseph also has this double name). >There is an 1837 marriage of Mary Davies in Chester to a Robert Brassey >(wheelwright) but I notice the Brassey name kicks in around 1834. >Anyway I shall keep my eyes peeled during my wanderings and let you know if >anything pops up! >Good luck, Marian

Hi Gordon, I've spent the day playing around with these names and have developed some ideas I'd like to try out. First of all was Mary Davis born Bidstone christened 6 Dec 1789 d/o Samuel and Catharine? If so Samuel dies in 1795 and although I can't find a second marriage for Catharine (nee Pemberton) I wonder if she married a Brassey? That might account for the duality of names over the years? My other idea is that Mary herself named a Brassey as the father of her twins (I notice from the records that Joseph also has this double name). There is an 1837 marriage of Mary Davies in Chester to a Robert Brassey (wheelwright) but I notice the Brassey name kicks in around 1834. Anyway I shall keep my eyes peeled during my wanderings and let you know if anything pops up! Good luck, Marian ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email

Gordon If it,s beyond you what chance do we have !!!! (I supose we might get lucky ) Cheers George --- On Tue, 7/12/10, Gordon Evans <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> wrote: From: Gordon Evans <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] BRASSEY/DAVIES/DAVIS To: eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com Date: Tuesday, 7 December, 2010, 22:55 Hi Having wrestled with these names for longer than I care to remember, wondered whether there's anyone on the list who enjoys a challenge and can perhaps suggest what the connection might be between DAVIES and BRASSEY in the following scenario? According to the Bidston St Oswald parish registers twin illegitimate sons of Mary DAVIES of Bidston - (i) John and (ii) Joseph - were baptised there on 12 January 1806. (i) John DAVIS of Wallasey married Martha PUGH of Bidston on 7 April 1828 in Bidston St Oswald (one of the witnesses being a J DAVIES), with subsequent children baptised in Bidston St Oswald :- 1830  Joseph (baptised Joseph DAVIS) 1834  Mary (baptised Mary BRASSEY) 1836  John (baptised John BRASSEY) 1839  Elizabeth (baptised Elizabeth DAVIS BRASSR) 1842  William (baptised William DAVIES or BRASSEY) 1841 Census Moreton, Cheshire John BRASSEY, 35, ag labourer, Y (born in Cheshire) Martha, 30, Y Joseph , 10, Y Mary, 7, Y John, 5, Y Elizabeth, 2, Y 1851 Census Saughall, Cheshire John DAVIES, 45, farm labourer, CHS Bidston Martha, wife, 44, CHS West Kirby John, son, 14, CHS Bidston Elizabeth, daur, 12, CHS Bidston William, son, 10, CHS Bidston 1861 Census Saughall Massie, Cheshire John DAVIES, 54, labourer on roads, CHS Bidston Martha, wife, 55, CHS Great Meols Elizabeth PUGH, wife's mother, W, 88, ag lab's widow, CHS Stoke John DAVIES, grandson, 7, CHS Saughall Massie Mary THORNTON, servant, 15, FLN Flint 1871 Census Saughall Massie Martha BRASSEY, W, 65, nurse, CHS Meolse Elizabeth, grandaughter, 9, CHS Saughall Albert J POVEY, nurse child, 2, CHS Birkenhead John (b1806) was buried as John Brassey DAVIES in 1869. His wife Martha nee PUGH was described as Martha BRASSEY when she died in 1879. Their son Joseph (b1830) was buried as Joseph DAVIES in 1860. Their daughter Mary (b1834) was Mary Davis BRASSEY when her illegitimate son John BRASSEY was baptised in 1855; Mary BRASSEY when illegitimate daughter Elizabeth BRASSEY was baptised in 1862, and Mary BRASSEY when she married Harold GODWIN on 14 September 1863 in Liverpool St Nicholas. Their daughter Elizabeth, baptised as Elizabeth DAVIS BROSSR in 1839, was buried as Elizabeth Davis BRASSEY in 1854. Their son William, baptised as William DAVIES or BRASSEY in 1842, was William BRASSEY when he married Elizabeth SHERLOCK on 23 July 1871 in Liverpool St Peter. (ii) Joseph Davies BRASSEY married Margaret DODD on 14 February 1831 in Liverpool St Nicholas and had children baptised in Bidston St Oswald :- 1832  Mary (baptised as Mary DAVIS, married as Mary DAVIES in 1853) 1834  Edward (baptised as Edward BRASSEY, married as below) 1836  Alice (baptised as Alice DAVIS, married as Alice BRASSEY in 1864) 1838  Joseph (baptised as Joseph BRASSEY, buried as Joseph BRASSEY in 1839) 1840  Joseph (baptised as Joseph BRASSEY, married as Joseph BRASSEY in 1863) 1842  George (baptised as George BRASSEY, m as George BRASSEY in 1864) 1844  Margaret (baptised as Margaret BRASSEY al DAVIES, married as below) 1847  Elizabeth (baptised Elizabeth BRASSEY, m as Elizabeth BRASSEY in 1870) 1849  John (baptised John Brassey DAVIS, married as John BRASSEY in 1873) 1851  Thomas (baptised as Thomas BRASSEY al DAVIES, m as Thomas BRASSEY) Joseph & Margaret's family are described as DAVIES in the 1851 Census, but BRASSEY in 1841 & 1861 to 1891. Son Edward (b1834) married as Edward Davies BRASSEY in 1858, but as Edward DAVIES in 1861. Daughter Margaret (b1844) married as Margaret BRASSEY in 1862. Prior to her marriage to Joseph Davies BRASSEY in 1831, Margaret DODD had an illegitimate son baptised William DOD on 28 February 1830 in Bidston St Oswald. This child is described as William BRASSEY in the 1841 Census but as William DAVIES in the 1851. When he marrried Jane PENDLETON on 2 October 1854 in Liverpool St Simon he was William Dodd DAVIES, father Joseph DAVIES. He appears to feature twice in the 1861 Census, thus :- Farmer's Cross, Moreton, Cheshire Joseph BRASSIE, 54, wheelwright, CHS Saughall Massie Margaret, wife, 51, CHS Moreton William, son, U, 30, wheelwright, CHS Moreton Sefton Road, Litherland, Lancashire Richard PENDLETON, W, 65, labourer, LAN Litherland Jane BRASSEY, daur, M, 27, wheelwright's wife, LAN Litherland William BRASSEY, son-in-law, M, 30, wheelwright journeyman, CHS Moreton Richard BRASSEY, grandson, 2, CHS Moreton Robert JONES, grandson, 4, LAN Liverpool Oh, what a tangled web.............. :-) Gordon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Gordon, Have printed that one out for further study later! Marian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Evans" <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 10:55 PM Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] BRASSEY/DAVIES/DAVIS > Hi > > Having wrestled with these names for longer than I care to remember, > wondered whether there's anyone on the list who enjoys a challenge and can > perhaps suggest what the connection might be between DAVIES and BRASSEY in > the following scenario? > > According to the Bidston St Oswald parish registers twin illegitimate sons > of Mary DAVIES of Bidston - (i) John and (ii) Joseph - were baptised there > on 12 January 1806. > > (i) John DAVIS of Wallasey married Martha PUGH of Bidston on 7 April 1828 > in > Bidston St Oswald (one of the witnesses being a J DAVIES), with subsequent > children baptised in Bidston St Oswald :- > > 1830 Joseph (baptised Joseph DAVIS) > 1834 Mary (baptised Mary BRASSEY) > 1836 John (baptised John BRASSEY) > 1839 Elizabeth (baptised Elizabeth DAVIS BRASSR) > 1842 William (baptised William DAVIES or BRASSEY) > > 1841 Census > Moreton, Cheshire > John BRASSEY, 35, ag labourer, Y (born in Cheshire) > Martha, 30, Y > Joseph , 10, Y > Mary, 7, Y > John, 5, Y > Elizabeth, 2, Y > > 1851 Census > Saughall, Cheshire > John DAVIES, 45, farm labourer, CHS Bidston > Martha, wife, 44, CHS West Kirby > John, son, 14, CHS Bidston > Elizabeth, daur, 12, CHS Bidston > William, son, 10, CHS Bidston > > 1861 Census > Saughall Massie, Cheshire > John DAVIES, 54, labourer on roads, CHS Bidston > Martha, wife, 55, CHS Great Meols > Elizabeth PUGH, wife's mother, W, 88, ag lab's widow, CHS Stoke > John DAVIES, grandson, 7, CHS Saughall Massie > Mary THORNTON, servant, 15, FLN Flint > > 1871 Census > Saughall Massie > Martha BRASSEY, W, 65, nurse, CHS Meolse > Elizabeth, grandaughter, 9, CHS Saughall > Albert J POVEY, nurse child, 2, CHS Birkenhead > > John (b1806) was buried as John Brassey DAVIES in 1869. His wife Martha > nee > PUGH was described as Martha BRASSEY when she died in 1879. > Their son Joseph (b1830) was buried as Joseph DAVIES in 1860. > Their daughter Mary (b1834) was Mary Davis BRASSEY when her illegitimate > son > John BRASSEY was baptised in 1855; Mary BRASSEY when illegitimate daughter > Elizabeth BRASSEY was baptised in 1862, and Mary BRASSEY when she married > Harold GODWIN on 14 September 1863 in Liverpool St Nicholas. > Their daughter Elizabeth, baptised as Elizabeth DAVIS BROSSR in 1839, was > buried as Elizabeth Davis BRASSEY in 1854. > Their son William, baptised as William DAVIES or BRASSEY in 1842, was > William BRASSEY when he married Elizabeth SHERLOCK on 23 July 1871 in > Liverpool St Peter. > > (ii) Joseph Davies BRASSEY married Margaret DODD on 14 February 1831 in > Liverpool St Nicholas and had children baptised in Bidston St Oswald :- > > 1832 Mary (baptised as Mary DAVIS, married as Mary DAVIES in 1853) > 1834 Edward (baptised as Edward BRASSEY, married as below) > 1836 Alice (baptised as Alice DAVIS, married as Alice BRASSEY in 1864) > 1838 Joseph (baptised as Joseph BRASSEY, buried as Joseph BRASSEY in > 1839) > 1840 Joseph (baptised as Joseph BRASSEY, married as Joseph BRASSEY in > 1863) > 1842 George (baptised as George BRASSEY, m as George BRASSEY in 1864) > 1844 Margaret (baptised as Margaret BRASSEY al DAVIES, married as below) > 1847 Elizabeth (baptised Elizabeth BRASSEY, m as Elizabeth BRASSEY in > 1870) > 1849 John (baptised John Brassey DAVIS, married as John BRASSEY in 1873) > 1851 Thomas (baptised as Thomas BRASSEY al DAVIES, m as Thomas BRASSEY) > > Joseph & Margaret's family are described as DAVIES in the 1851 Census, but > BRASSEY in 1841 & 1861 to 1891. > Son Edward (b1834) married as Edward Davies BRASSEY in 1858, but as Edward > DAVIES in 1861. > Daughter Margaret (b1844) married as Margaret BRASSEY in 1862. > > Prior to her marriage to Joseph Davies BRASSEY in 1831, Margaret DODD had > an > illegitimate son baptised William DOD on 28 February 1830 in Bidston St > Oswald. This child is described as William BRASSEY in the 1841 Census but > as > William DAVIES in the 1851. When he marrried Jane PENDLETON on 2 October > 1854 in Liverpool St Simon he was William Dodd DAVIES, father Joseph > DAVIES. > He appears to feature twice in the 1861 Census, thus :- > > Farmer's Cross, Moreton, Cheshire > Joseph BRASSIE, 54, wheelwright, CHS Saughall Massie > Margaret, wife, 51, CHS Moreton > William, son, U, 30, wheelwright, CHS Moreton > > Sefton Road, Litherland, Lancashire > Richard PENDLETON, W, 65, labourer, LAN Litherland > Jane BRASSEY, daur, M, 27, wheelwright's wife, LAN Litherland > William BRASSEY, son-in-law, M, 30, wheelwright journeyman, CHS Moreton > Richard BRASSEY, grandson, 2, CHS Moreton > Robert JONES, grandson, 4, LAN Liverpool > > Oh, what a tangled web.............. :-) > > Gordon > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ______________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence > http://www.netintelligence.com/email > > ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email

Gordon, you've been so helpful to people on this list that I hope there is someone out there who can take up this challenge! Sadly, it's beyond my resources and capabilities! Marged Hi Having wrestled with these names for longer than I care to remember, wondered whether there's anyone on the list who enjoys a challenge and can perhaps suggest what the connection might be between DAVIES and BRASSEY in the following scenario? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3302 - Release Date: 12/07/10 07:34:00

Hi Having wrestled with these names for longer than I care to remember, wondered whether there's anyone on the list who enjoys a challenge and can perhaps suggest what the connection might be between DAVIES and BRASSEY in the following scenario? According to the Bidston St Oswald parish registers twin illegitimate sons of Mary DAVIES of Bidston - (i) John and (ii) Joseph - were baptised there on 12 January 1806. (i) John DAVIS of Wallasey married Martha PUGH of Bidston on 7 April 1828 in Bidston St Oswald (one of the witnesses being a J DAVIES), with subsequent children baptised in Bidston St Oswald :- 1830 Joseph (baptised Joseph DAVIS) 1834 Mary (baptised Mary BRASSEY) 1836 John (baptised John BRASSEY) 1839 Elizabeth (baptised Elizabeth DAVIS BRASSR) 1842 William (baptised William DAVIES or BRASSEY) 1841 Census Moreton, Cheshire John BRASSEY, 35, ag labourer, Y (born in Cheshire) Martha, 30, Y Joseph , 10, Y Mary, 7, Y John, 5, Y Elizabeth, 2, Y 1851 Census Saughall, Cheshire John DAVIES, 45, farm labourer, CHS Bidston Martha, wife, 44, CHS West Kirby John, son, 14, CHS Bidston Elizabeth, daur, 12, CHS Bidston William, son, 10, CHS Bidston 1861 Census Saughall Massie, Cheshire John DAVIES, 54, labourer on roads, CHS Bidston Martha, wife, 55, CHS Great Meols Elizabeth PUGH, wife's mother, W, 88, ag lab's widow, CHS Stoke John DAVIES, grandson, 7, CHS Saughall Massie Mary THORNTON, servant, 15, FLN Flint 1871 Census Saughall Massie Martha BRASSEY, W, 65, nurse, CHS Meolse Elizabeth, grandaughter, 9, CHS Saughall Albert J POVEY, nurse child, 2, CHS Birkenhead John (b1806) was buried as John Brassey DAVIES in 1869. His wife Martha nee PUGH was described as Martha BRASSEY when she died in 1879. Their son Joseph (b1830) was buried as Joseph DAVIES in 1860. Their daughter Mary (b1834) was Mary Davis BRASSEY when her illegitimate son John BRASSEY was baptised in 1855; Mary BRASSEY when illegitimate daughter Elizabeth BRASSEY was baptised in 1862, and Mary BRASSEY when she married Harold GODWIN on 14 September 1863 in Liverpool St Nicholas. Their daughter Elizabeth, baptised as Elizabeth DAVIS BROSSR in 1839, was buried as Elizabeth Davis BRASSEY in 1854. Their son William, baptised as William DAVIES or BRASSEY in 1842, was William BRASSEY when he married Elizabeth SHERLOCK on 23 July 1871 in Liverpool St Peter. (ii) Joseph Davies BRASSEY married Margaret DODD on 14 February 1831 in Liverpool St Nicholas and had children baptised in Bidston St Oswald :- 1832 Mary (baptised as Mary DAVIS, married as Mary DAVIES in 1853) 1834 Edward (baptised as Edward BRASSEY, married as below) 1836 Alice (baptised as Alice DAVIS, married as Alice BRASSEY in 1864) 1838 Joseph (baptised as Joseph BRASSEY, buried as Joseph BRASSEY in 1839) 1840 Joseph (baptised as Joseph BRASSEY, married as Joseph BRASSEY in 1863) 1842 George (baptised as George BRASSEY, m as George BRASSEY in 1864) 1844 Margaret (baptised as Margaret BRASSEY al DAVIES, married as below) 1847 Elizabeth (baptised Elizabeth BRASSEY, m as Elizabeth BRASSEY in 1870) 1849 John (baptised John Brassey DAVIS, married as John BRASSEY in 1873) 1851 Thomas (baptised as Thomas BRASSEY al DAVIES, m as Thomas BRASSEY) Joseph & Margaret's family are described as DAVIES in the 1851 Census, but BRASSEY in 1841 & 1861 to 1891. Son Edward (b1834) married as Edward Davies BRASSEY in 1858, but as Edward DAVIES in 1861. Daughter Margaret (b1844) married as Margaret BRASSEY in 1862. Prior to her marriage to Joseph Davies BRASSEY in 1831, Margaret DODD had an illegitimate son baptised William DOD on 28 February 1830 in Bidston St Oswald. This child is described as William BRASSEY in the 1841 Census but as William DAVIES in the 1851. When he marrried Jane PENDLETON on 2 October 1854 in Liverpool St Simon he was William Dodd DAVIES, father Joseph DAVIES. He appears to feature twice in the 1861 Census, thus :- Farmer's Cross, Moreton, Cheshire Joseph BRASSIE, 54, wheelwright, CHS Saughall Massie Margaret, wife, 51, CHS Moreton William, son, U, 30, wheelwright, CHS Moreton Sefton Road, Litherland, Lancashire Richard PENDLETON, W, 65, labourer, LAN Litherland Jane BRASSEY, daur, M, 27, wheelwright's wife, LAN Litherland William BRASSEY, son-in-law, M, 30, wheelwright journeyman, CHS Moreton Richard BRASSEY, grandson, 2, CHS Moreton Robert JONES, grandson, 4, LAN Liverpool Oh, what a tangled web.............. :-) Gordon

Thanks for letting me know, Meg, its nice to get feedback, Best wishes, Marian ----- Original Message ----- From: <farcons@comcast.net> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] email > > Hi Marian and Christine, the answer to the Lightfoot query bounced back to > me when I answered to Sandy re the ENG-MERSEYSIDE List. i have now sent it > directly to Sandy Off-List. Thanks for replying though, I havent had much > if any e-mails from the Mailing List these past few days...Oh Well maybe > people are shopping....Meg from a very cool and foggy California...... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ______________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence > http://www.netintelligence.com/email > > ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email

Hi Marian and Christine, the answer to the Lightfoot query bounced back to me when I answered to Sandy re the ENG-MERSEYSIDE List. i have now sent it directly to Sandy Off-List. Thanks for replying though, I havent had much if any e-mails from the Mailing List these past few days...Oh Well maybe people are shopping....Meg from a very cool and foggy California......

Hi Marian and All, The person sending the LIGHTFOOT enquiry was Sandy <Sandybear22@btinternet.com>. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Marian Foster Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 11:13 AM To: eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] email Hi Meg, Did you mean you sent this info directly to me? I didn't receive anything. If you are talking about the Lightfoot family, I posted a lot of info in reply to someone's request but unfortunately I forgot to keep a note of the person who posted the original query!! Best wishes, Marian

Hi there, things seem to be coming through fine now! It was just very odd yesterday, Marian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marged" <marged36@btopenworld.com> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] email >I have had a lot of stuff from all over the place coming in late - don't >know if it's atmospheric conditions causing the delay. > > Perhaps the person making the Lightfoot enquiries has gone away for a few > days - no doubt there will be a response in due course > > Marged > Hi Marged, It was just that I sent a message at about 3pm ish which > didn't > come to me until about quarter to 9 and another that I sent at 4.30pm ish > came to me at 6.30pm. That seems like a long time compared to usual? Also > I > did wonder if my info re the Lightfoot family had been received as there > was > no response, which seemed odd! Marian > >I hadn't thought there was a problem, but perhaps people are just not > >writing. > > > > What was the last message you received? Or, have you sent something > that > > didn't get through? > > > > I have had lots of mails from you regarding the names you mentioned > > > > Marged > > > > > > Hi, Is it just me or are messages not getting through? Marian > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3296 - Release Date: > 12/04/10 > > 07:34:00 > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ______________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence > > http://www.netintelligence.com/email > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence > http://www.netintelligence.com/email > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3296 - Release Date: 12/04/10 > 07:34:00 > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3296 - Release Date: 12/04/10 > 07:34:00 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ______________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence > http://www.netintelligence.com/email > > ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email