Hi Andrew sorry unable to help but try http://genchatfriends.proboards39.com/index.cgi I have had lots of help with Queries like this great site full of people with info on Liverpool and Merseyside connections. Kathy -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Abrahams [mailto:andrewabrahams@usa.net] Sent: 29 January 2006 02:04 To: ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-MERSEY] Looking for John Abrahams and 'The Ceylon Cafe Company', Liverpool and Leeds My gt-grandfather John Abrahams lived in Liverpool and ran a company from there. He operated Tea Houses in the Liverpool and Leeds areas with a bakery based in Liverpool. In 1909 'The Ceylon Cafe Company' was sold to the growing J.Lyons concern, I believe that it may have been it's first outside aquisition, and the business was rebranded as J.Lyons. John and his family lived in Liverpool until 1918 and then moved to Birkenhead, where he died later that same year. I am trying to find what information I can on the business, as well as attempting to trace my family and John's burial place. The J.Lyons records are held at The London Metropolitan Archives. Does anybody have any ideas as to where or what may be held locally in Liverpool, or which bodies I should approach for further help? Thanks, Andrew ==== ENG-MERSEYSIDE Mailing List ==== Lancashire Online Parish Clerks www.lan-opc.org.uk Volunteers needed for Liverpool Online Parish clerks www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/index.html ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/243 - Release Date: 27/01/2006

My gt-grandfather John Abrahams lived in Liverpool and ran a company from there. He operated Tea Houses in the Liverpool and Leeds areas with a bakery based in Liverpool. In 1909 'The Ceylon Cafe Company' was sold to the growing J.Lyons concern, I believe that it may have been it's first outside aquisition, and the business was rebranded as J.Lyons. John and his family lived in Liverpool until 1918 and then moved to Birkenhead, where he died later that same year. I am trying to find what information I can on the business, as well as attempting to trace my family and John's burial place. The J.Lyons records are held at The London Metropolitan Archives. Does anybody have any ideas as to where or what may be held locally in Liverpool, or which bodies I should approach for further help? Thanks, Andrew

Anyone with a prominent builder in their tree may find a photo of them available on my website at www.lightage.demon.co.uk

Hi John, sorry its took so long to get back to you, I am having probs with my IE, do you know if its gone off line or something? Anyway, just to clarify, Ellen was a Hughes who married a Bate in Liverpool, possibly around 1960. I have never met Ellen even though she was the daughter of my Uncle, her father Leonard Hughes. I suspect he was a sailor but I'm having trouble finding info to date. My grandparents (And Ellen's) were Elizabeth Thompson born about 1887 who married William Hughes, a stevedore born about 1886. I have them on the 1901 census if this helps. William and Elizabeth had about 12 children including my father (of course) and his brother Leonard amongst others. Leonard married Patricia Murphy in Liverpool and the couple had 4 children, Patricia, Paula, Ellen and John. Ellen married 'Bate'. I would imagine Ellen could be in her 60's now and apart from her last known address that is all I have. I assume there were children who would also be Bate, but that's it. When my dad (and Uncles) were alive, I was not interested in genealogy but now that they have all passed on I cannot find the information I desire. I have no photos or much background info to speak of so I am very frustrated about this important branch of my family as I am also a Hughes. If you think I can help any further, please let me know. Syl - UK (snip) Syl,, > > I sure would be interested to know something of Ellen Bate's ancestry. > If you ever have anything further back please let me know. >

Thanks, Sylvia. We all have the same problem! If only we had had interest in genealogy when all the old folks were alive!!!!! If I come across anything in my further research I will let you know. John

Hi Syl,, I sure would be interested to know something of Ellen Bate's ancestry. If you ever have anything further back please let me know. Thanks. John M. Bate ----- Original Message ----- From: "sylvia hughes" <sh001k2186@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:49 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEY] Re-posting Interests > When my dad's brother James Hughes died in 1991 he left a will in which > the living children of his brothers would received a sum of money. One of > the recipients was Ellen Bate (nee Hughes). Ellen was the daughter of > Leonard Hughes and she was living in Mossley Hill, Liverpool at that time. > > Does any of this mean anything to you? > > Syl - UK > > ==== ENG-MERSEYSIDE Mailing List ==== > You can search or browse the archives of this list and also change > membership - move from digest to normal mail mode, or vice versa and sub > and unsub at this link > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/ENG-MERSEYSIDE.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

When my dad's brother James Hughes died in 1991 he left a will in which the living children of his brothers would received a sum of money. One of the recipients was Ellen Bate (nee Hughes). Ellen was the daughter of Leonard Hughes and she was living in Mossley Hill, Liverpool at that time. Does any of this mean anything to you? Syl - UK

Hi John, hope you don't mind me corresponding with you but I have a Bate in my tree but I don't know anything about him other than he married Ellen Hughes in Liverpool. Ellen would have been the granddaughter of Elizabeth Thompson and William Hughes both from Liverpool. If you think you have a connection, I would love to hear from you. Syl - UK

Hi Syl, None of my Bate's wandered as far as Liverpool!!! at least it would seem not before 1881. Even the 1901 census has them mainly in Rainhill, Sutton area. I would be interested to know the name of the Bate who married Ellen Hughes. Strangely enough Ellen is quite a Bate name! If you have any further details plese do not hesitate to write me again. John M. Bate ----- Original Message ----- From: "sylvia hughes" <sh001k2186@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEY] Re-posting Interests > Hi John, hope you don't mind me corresponding with you but I have a Bate > in my tree but I don't know anything about him other than he married Ellen > Hughes in Liverpool. Ellen would have been the granddaughter of Elizabeth > Thompson and William Hughes both from Liverpool. > > If you think you have a connection, I would love to hear from you. > > Syl - UK > > ==== ENG-MERSEYSIDE Mailing List ==== > You can search or browse the archives of this list and also change > membership - move from digest to normal mail mode, or vice versa and sub > and unsub at this link > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/ENG-MERSEYSIDE.html > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >

I am re-posting my interests - BATE - Sutton, Prescot, Rainhill MERCER - Sutton, Prescot, Rainhill John Mowatt Bate USA

Hi... Is there a problem with Rootsweb Mailing Lists? David

Lesley, I read on one of the lists that 1911 census would be very difficult as there were no books just papers, some of which have been lost or destroyed, it was written by some-one who appeared to know, in response to mny queries about when it would be released. Lets hope this is not too severe a loss if true. cheers? Wendy. ENG-MERSEYSIDE-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: ENG-MERSEYSIDE-D Digest Volume 06 : Issue 8 Today's Topics: #1 1911 census ["Lesley.Culshaw" Administrivia: To unsubscribe from ENG-MERSEYSIDE-D, send a message to ENG-MERSEYSIDE-D-request@rootsweb.com that contains in the body of the message the command unsubscribe and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. To contact the ENG-MERSEYSIDE-D list administrator, send mail to ENG-MERSEYSIDE-admin@rootsweb.com. ______________________________Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:46:14 -0000 From: "Lesley.Culshaw" <lesley.culshaw@blueyonder.co.uk> To: ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: 1911 census 1911 census This is food for thought ! Lesley --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search

1911 census This is food for thought ! Lesley <http://home.clara.net/denis.mccready/>

Thanks, Alan. I'll try with the 1901 census again. If I can get Great Mersey Street, that should at least give me a piece number to try on Ancestry. Happy days! All the best Rachel -----Original Message----- From: Alan Johnson [mailto:alan_mar@lineone.net] Sent: 13 January 2006 14:50 To: ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEY] Lamb St / Brisbane St Rachel{ Lamb St was off Stanley Road, next to Gt Mersey St. Brisbane Street was a little further up near to a tramway depot. My map is dated 1928. Al;an Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Roberts" <rachel.m.roberts@btopenworld.com> To: <ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: [ENG-MERSEY] Lamb St / Brisbane St > Still on the heels of these elusive Smiths - their daughter now married to > Samuel McDonald, a baker. In 1881 they were living in Upper Beau Street. > In 1900 when Samuel died they give their address as Lamb Street. When > Mary > died a few years later, the address is given as Brisbane Street. Does > anyone have a street index for 1891 / 1901? Can't find either address on > the 1901 site itself, but have never had great success with their address > search facility. > > Here's hoping > > Rachel > > > > ==== ENG-MERSEYSIDE Mailing List ==== > Lancashire Online Parish Clerks www.lan-opc.org.uk > Volunteers needed for Liverpool Online Parish clerks > www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/index.html > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 3373 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! ==== ENG-MERSEYSIDE Mailing List ==== <a href="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpool/ENG-MERSEYSIDE.html ">ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L List netiquette</A> ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Rachel{ Lamb St was off Stanley Road, next to Gt Mersey St. Brisbane Street was a little further up near to a tramway depot. My map is dated 1928. Al;an Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Roberts" <rachel.m.roberts@btopenworld.com> To: <ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: [ENG-MERSEY] Lamb St / Brisbane St > Still on the heels of these elusive Smiths - their daughter now married to > Samuel McDonald, a baker. In 1881 they were living in Upper Beau Street. > In 1900 when Samuel died they give their address as Lamb Street. When > Mary > died a few years later, the address is given as Brisbane Street. Does > anyone have a street index for 1891 / 1901? Can't find either address on > the 1901 site itself, but have never had great success with their address > search facility. > > Here's hoping > > Rachel > > > > ==== ENG-MERSEYSIDE Mailing List ==== > Lancashire Online Parish Clerks www.lan-opc.org.uk > Volunteers needed for Liverpool Online Parish clerks > www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/index.html > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 3373 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!

Still on the heels of these elusive Smiths - their daughter now married to Samuel McDonald, a baker. In 1881 they were living in Upper Beau Street. In 1900 when Samuel died they give their address as Lamb Street. When Mary died a few years later, the address is given as Brisbane Street. Does anyone have a street index for 1891 / 1901? Can't find either address on the 1901 site itself, but have never had great success with their address search facility. Here's hoping Rachel

Dear all - I have a bit of a conundrum. My great great great grandfather, Patrick Smith probably came from Kells in County Meath, arriving in Liverpool some time between 1841 and 1851 (no surprise there then!). There is a Patrick Smith in the 1851 census, aged 48, living with his wife Bridget and their family. He is a labourer in the chemical works, as is his son Lawrence (my great great grandfather, if it is he), aged 17. This just about fits in with the ages - and certainly the links to the chemical works! Still in Tillery Street in 1861. By 1870 - when Patrick dies of 'apoplexy', he and Bridget were living next door to Laurence and Elizabeth (nee RYAN) in Latimer Street (46 and 48). In 1871, Bridget is living at the address given on Patrick's death certificate. She states that her husband is `away at sea`. However, we know he is dead and buried by then! I wonder... Why would she say he was away at sea when he clearly wasn't? I was pretty confident that the Bridget Smith in the 1871 census was the right one - because she was next to Laurence and Elizabeth, and the daughter Mary who was living with her was the right sort of age (not an unusual name, though - Mary SMITH!). However I knew from burial records that Patrick had died some months previously. When I received the death certificate yesterday, and the addresses were the same, this confirmed it. I was wondering if she might have been claiming some kind of relief; however, the family were sufficiently well off to have a family plot for which Laurence paid where Patrick is buried, as are Bridget, Mary and her husband and Laurence himself. Anyone any ideas? Fingers crossed Rachel

Hello Listers Wallasey Group FHSC Help Desk A help desk will be available in Earlston Road, Library, Wallasey ( near Rake Lane Cemetery) 10am - 2pm approx January 12th (Thursday). Earlston Road Reference Library has some excellent resources and local and family history section which includes directories on the selves and indexes, some unique indexes are only held at this library too and other books and maps. We will be situated in the reference library upstairs and microfiche and Internet access will be available for us to use. You may park near the library and a lift is available should you need it. Also refreshments and toilets. We will endeavour to help you with your research in Wallasey and surrounding areas and general enquiries with regards to tracing your family tree or local history.. We are experienced Genealogists but we don't know it all !!! At the moment there are two helpers but we hope to expand this in the future. We will have a help desk monthly, except December, on the Thursday before the 3rd Tuesday of each month (our group meeting night is the 3rd Tuesday of the month). We hope not to cancel any help desks and will only do so due to unforeseen circumstances. Please be patient if we are helping anyone else and we politely ask that your enquiry be limited to around half an hour to enable us to help others who may come on spec. We look forward to helping you with your research. For the short time being I am unable to answer any email queries as I have a back log to clear before I can reply to any new ones. Best regards Wendy Bennett Group Leader, Wallasey Group FHSC.

Thanks for your comment Fred. It is thought provoking. I wonder if I were to marry today I would insert, below my Mother's name, in parenthesis "Deceased". I agree with you about confirming information. I found the name of the person's father from Parish records. I had not found him in IGI or census because the marriage took place in 1858. I was very glad to find it at all. Then I was fortunate to find a death record for one of the same name which named his wife and his age at the date of death. What I am relying on is the death record, to give me the birth year, give or take nearly a year; he could have had a birthday in any part of the year that he died. That death record proved to me that he couldn't have been alive when his daughter was married. Where we try and find records that are as near to accurate as possible, without that death record, I realised I could be looking for a needle in a haystack, finding someone of the same name not the right parent at all. So it caused me to ask. Janet Traced: Dun/Dunn, Angus Sherret, Kincardineshire Chester, Glasgow Rowat, Campbell, Argyll http://www.globechatters.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Jones" <donsby@worldonline.co.za> > ------=_Part_10651_7709798.1136709708446 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Dear Janet, > It is my understanding that there is no rule which requires that the word "Deceased" appears at all. So the absence or appearance does not prove that the person is alive or dead. My parent's marriage cert (1940) shows his father as deceased when he knew full well that his father was very much alive; but estranged from his family! >>From this, I believe that even the most "official" of information should be confirmed in some way. > > Fred Jones in cloudy Johannesburg > > Powered by MWEB - http://new.mweb.co.za

------=_Part_10651_7709798.1136709708446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Janet, It is my understanding that there is no rule which requires that the word "Deceased" appears at all. So the absence or appearance does not prove that the person is alive or dead. My parent's marriage cert (1940) shows his father as deceased when he knew full well that his father was very much alive; but estranged from his family! >From this, I believe that even the most "official" of information should be confirmed in some way. Fred Jones in cloudy Johannesburg Powered by MWEB - http://new.mweb.co.za ------------- Original Message -------------- From: Janet [wightway@tiscali.co.uk] To: ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Cc: ? Date: Sat,07/01/2006 01:03:49 Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEY] Marriage Records I was so excited I forgot to confirm that he was stated to be 54 when he died, and described as "Surgeon". Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <wightway@tiscali.co.uk> Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEY] Marriage Records > Oh boy! That would be great. I am hoping a death record might reveal the identity of the parent. The name is David KIRKPATRICK, born 1783 according to the record of his death in Cheshire Parish records. I dont know where he was born, which is one of my purposes. His wife was Mary Sillers/Sellers and her Mother was a Johnson. > > Regards > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "michael acton" <michaelacton587@msn.com> > > >> Hi If its any help I have access to 1837.com and can do a look up for a >> death if you can give the details you have. >> >> >> Mike ==== ENG-MERSEYSIDE Mailing List ==== Lancashire Online Parish Clerks www.lan-opc.org.uk Volunteers needed for Liverpool Online Parish clerks www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/index.html ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ------=_Part_10651_7709798.1136709708446--