I have a Miriam Donohoe who married a William Fletcher somewhere between 1910 and 1925. Apparently, William then left for parts unknown - some say Canada. Could we be connected? Peter in Burlington, Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: "margaret davies" <maglez@bigpond.com> To: <ENG-MERSEYSIDE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:43 PM Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Rainfords > Thank you for your reply Gordon. I don't know much about the Rainfords of > my aquaintance. There was John Rainford the Father -circa 1910. Then young > John who must be about my age late 60s early 70s. John's Mother was Nellie > Fletcher -Sister of my Dad William James Fletcher. She was born around > 1910 in Rock Ferry as she was younger than my Dad. Her parents were > William James Fletcher and Mary Ellen O'Brien. She died at an early age > leaving her young son John and his Father who later went to live in > Canada. I don't have any info re John Rainford senior. I can get in touch > with my cousin John in Canada but as he has no interest in the family > genealogy he doesn't usually offer any help!! It would be rather ironical > if there was a connection to your Rainfords. Thank you for your interest. > Margaret in Australia an exile from The Wirral. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gordon Thank you for your e-mails. I am now looking for Henry/Harry COPELAND who married Margaret HAGAN in 1920 in Birkenhead. I note that Henry/Harry COPELAND was 30 when he married so I probably didn't go far enough in my searching. Assuming as I have that he worked on the docks, those HAGAN families whom you sent look interesting. Now I will also have a date to work from to see if I can trace the children Thanks very much Jim Jim & Beverley Payne NEW ZEALAND jr_bjpayne@xtra.co.nz Our web site is located at the following URL: http://www.shampayne.org.nz

Thank you for your reply Gordon. I don't know much about the Rainfords of my aquaintance. There was John Rainford the Father -circa 1910. Then young John who must be about my age late 60s early 70s. John's Mother was Nellie Fletcher -Sister of my Dad William James Fletcher. She was born around 1910 in Rock Ferry as she was younger than my Dad. Her parents were William James Fletcher and Mary Ellen O'Brien. She died at an early age leaving her young son John and his Father who later went to live in Canada. I don't have any info re John Rainford senior. I can get in touch with my cousin John in Canada but as he has no interest in the family genealogy he doesn't usually offer any help!! It would be rather ironical if there was a connection to your Rainfords. Thank you for your interest. Margaret in Australia an exile from The Wirral.

Hello Marged, Thanks very much for sending the Pictures, and Thanks too, to Dave for taking them, the ones I've seen up to now are just Great, It'll take ages to get through them all, but it will be very interesting and Memory Stirring, Thanks again. Regards, Walter Jones. Marged <marged36@btopenworld.com> wrote: http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/ I am sending Dave Wood's picture site in case anyone has missed it - I don't think you will find any better pictures of Liverpool on the internet. Although it does specify Liverpool, I think you will find other places too Marged ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

http://www.liverpoolpictorial.co.uk/ I am sending Dave Wood's picture site in case anyone has missed it - I don't think you will find any better pictures of Liverpool on the internet. Although it does specify Liverpool, I think you will find other places too Marged

I am trying to find out some more about my Grand Uncle Harry COPELAND and his family in the Liverpool area where they appear to have lost contact with the family. Harry either came with or followed his brother in law James PAYNE, my Grandfather, who came to Birkenhead with his family to work on the construction of the docks. While in Liverpool, Harry married Maggie O'HAGAN but I can't locate the marriage. Looking at the various records, I have come across some Margaret HAGANs born in the area and of suitable ages so I wonder if family memories were exactly correct. I know that: Harry s/o Joseph COPELAND AND Elizabeth MCCLYMOUNT was born in the March Qtr 1890 in Lambeth, London, ENG. On 5 Apr 1891, Harry Copeland was living with his mother Elizabeth McClymont and siblings James, Joseph, Elizabeth, Martha, and Mary at Gilborne Row in Chapel-en-le-Frith, DBY, ENG. On 31 Mar 1901, Harry was living with his parents and siblings James, Elizabeth, and Joseph plus various boarders, at Hisehope in Muggleswick, YKS, ENG. He married Maggie O'Hagan who was born in Birkenhead, CHS, ENG. He died at Birkenhead, CHS, ENG. Their known children John. Harry, James, Jack, Margaret, Annie and Mary were all born at Birkenhead, CHS, ENG, and many died there too TIA Jim Jim & Beverley Payne NEW ZEALAND jr_bjpayne@xtra.co.nz Our web site is located at the following URL: http://www.shampayne.org.nz

I have got it now Jackie, and will be replying to you this evening - thanks for sending again Marged Hi Marged - I sent the e-mail again off list - let me know if you get it this time - AOL can be stupid sometimes - Jackie

Hi again Jim Sorry, meant to give you this household in the 1891 Census too :- RG12/2881 folio 21 page 35 4 Florence street, Birkenhead John HAGAN, 34, dock labourer, LAN Liverpool Catherine, wife, 27, LAN Liverpool Mary E, daur, 6, CHS Birkenhead Joseph, son, CHS Birkenhead Margaret, daur, 8 months, CHS Birkenhead Regards Gordon --- Original Message ----- From: "JimBev" <jr_bjpayne@xtra.co.nz> To: "COPELAND ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com>; "Wirrall Rootsweb" <ENG-CHS-WIRRAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "BIRKENHEAD ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com>; "CHESHIRE ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <CHESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; "ENG-MERSEYSIDE ROOTSWEB MAILING" <ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com>; "LANCSGEN ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <LANCSGEN-L@rootsweb.com>; "LIVERPOOL ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <ENG-LIVERPOOL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:00 AM Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] COPELAND Liverpool, ENG area 1906> >I am trying to find out some more about my Grand Uncle Harry COPELAND and > his family in the Liverpool area where they appear to have lost contact > with > the family. Harry either came with or followed his brother in law James > PAYNE, my Grandfather, who came to Birkenhead with his family to work on > the > construction of the docks. While in Liverpool, Harry married Maggie > O'HAGAN > but I can't locate the marriage. Looking at the various records, I have > come across some Margaret HAGANs born in the area and of suitable ages so > I > wonder if family memories were exactly correct. I know that: > > Harry s/o Joseph COPELAND AND Elizabeth MCCLYMOUNT was born in the March > Qtr > 1890 in Lambeth, London, ENG. On 5 Apr 1891, Harry Copeland was living > with > his mother Elizabeth McClymont and siblings James, Joseph, Elizabeth, > Martha, and Mary at Gilborne Row in Chapel-en-le-Frith, DBY, ENG. On 31 > Mar > 1901, Harry was living with his parents and siblings James, Elizabeth, and > Joseph plus various boarders, at Hisehope in Muggleswick, YKS, ENG. He > married Maggie O'Hagan who was born in Birkenhead, CHS, ENG. He died at > Birkenhead, CHS, ENG. Their known children John. Harry, James, Jack, > Margaret, Annie and Mary were all born at Birkenhead, CHS, ENG, and many > died there too > > TIA > > Jim > > Jim & Beverley Payne > NEW ZEALAND > jr_bjpayne@xtra.co.nz > Our web site is located at the following URL: > http://www.shampayne.org.nz > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Jim On Ancestry BMD (free) :- Marriage MarchQ 1920 Birkenhead 8a/1160 Henry COPELAND and Margaret HAGAN On Cheshire BMD :- Birth 1890 Birkenhead Margaret HAGAN Ref - BIR/162/76 In 1891 Census :- RG12/2881 folio 25 page 43 12 Parkfield Avenue, Birkenhead William HAGAN, 29, dock labourer, CHS Birkenhead Matilda, wife, 29, CHS Birkenhead Margaret, daur, 8, CHS Birkenhead John, son, 4, CHS Birkenhead Rose A, daur, 1, CHD Birkenhead In 1901 Census :- RG13/3389 folio 64 page 15 5 Park Street, Birkenhead William H MALONE, 32, dock labourer, CHS Birkenhead Mary E, 35, CHS Birkenhead Michael, son, 12, CHS Birkenhead Mary E, daur, 8, CHS Birkenhead William, son, 4, CHS Birkenhead Annie, daur, 4 months, CHS Birkenhead Peter, father, W, 62, retired furniture remover, CHS Birkenhead Jospeh O'HAGAN, nephew, 15, dock labourer, CHS Birkenhead Margaret, niece, 10, CHS Birkenhead John McCORMICK, boarder, M, 46, dock labourer, CHS Birkenhead Hope this helps Gordon Evans Wirral UK ----- Original Message ----- From: "JimBev" <jr_bjpayne@xtra.co.nz> To: "COPELAND ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <COPELAND-L@rootsweb.com>; "Wirrall Rootsweb" <ENG-CHS-WIRRAL-L@rootsweb.com>; "BIRKENHEAD ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <BIRKENHEAD-L@rootsweb.com>; "CHESHIRE ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <CHESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com>; "ENG-MERSEYSIDE ROOTSWEB MAILING" <ENG-MERSEYSIDE-L@rootsweb.com>; "LANCSGEN ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <LANCSGEN-L@rootsweb.com>; "LIVERPOOL ROOTSWEB-MAIL" <ENG-LIVERPOOL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:00 AM Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] COPELAND Liverpool, ENG area 1906> >I am trying to find out some more about my Grand Uncle Harry COPELAND and > his family in the Liverpool area where they appear to have lost contact > with > the family. Harry either came with or followed his brother in law James > PAYNE, my Grandfather, who came to Birkenhead with his family to work on > the > construction of the docks. While in Liverpool, Harry married Maggie > O'HAGAN > but I can't locate the marriage. Looking at the various records, I have > come across some Margaret HAGANs born in the area and of suitable ages so > I > wonder if family memories were exactly correct. I know that: > > Harry s/o Joseph COPELAND AND Elizabeth MCCLYMOUNT was born in the March > Qtr > 1890 in Lambeth, London, ENG. On 5 Apr 1891, Harry Copeland was living > with > his mother Elizabeth McClymont and siblings James, Joseph, Elizabeth, > Martha, and Mary at Gilborne Row in Chapel-en-le-Frith, DBY, ENG. On 31 > Mar > 1901, Harry was living with his parents and siblings James, Elizabeth, and > Joseph plus various boarders, at Hisehope in Muggleswick, YKS, ENG. He > married Maggie O'Hagan who was born in Birkenhead, CHS, ENG. He died at > Birkenhead, CHS, ENG. Their known children John. Harry, James, Jack, > Margaret, Annie and Mary were all born at Birkenhead, CHS, ENG, and many > died there too > > TIA > > Jim > > Jim & Beverley Payne > NEW ZEALAND > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello RAINFORD was quite a common name in the Hoylake/West Kirby area just over a century ago - I have 105 of them in my family tree. If you'd care to do as Yvonne has suggested and mention a few names & dates perhaps we'd be able to see whether or not there's a connection (albeit rather a loose one)? Regards Gordon Wirral UK >I have a connection by marriage to the RAINFORD's of Hoylake. My >Dad's >sister was married to a John Rainford. Anyone connected or know of >them? >Margaret

I have a connection by marriage to the RAINFORD's of Hoylake. My Dad's sister was married to a John Rainford. Anyone connected or know of them? Margaret

Thank you Janet for the most interesting site on the shipping and trade on the Mersey. I just love the pic with the different types of shipping on the Mersey. Beautiful, and made me feel quite nostalgic for the dear old Mersey. My COE,FLETCHER,O'BRIEN, MASSEY, and BANNER forbears were all involved in some way. Margaret in Australia.

Hi Marged - I sent the e-mail again off list - let me know if you get it this time - AOL can be stupid sometimes - Jackie

Hi Margaret, I've just been inputting details of my Rainford connections. Can you give me a few more details. Who was your dad's sister, and approximate dates? I would be delighted to try and find a match. Best regards, Yvonne >> [mailto:eng-merseyside-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of margaret davies Sent: 25 November 2006 20:43 To: ENG-MERSEYSIDE@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Rainford I have a connection by marriage to the RAINFORD's of Hoylake. My Dad's sister was married to a John Rainford. Anyone connected or know of them? Margaret <<

Should any like me be chasing a Master Mariner, you might find the following of interest. As mine made a home in Cheshire he might have been in salt. I've had this suggestion put to me before and that Whitehaven was another place where mariners can be found. http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/nof/docks/index2.html# Coastal Trade Coastal trade involves moving goods by boat from place to place. Until the coming of the railways, many people also found it easier to travel by boat. Coastal trade was very important to Liverpool, even before it became a large international port and long before canals and turnpikes were built. Small ships took goods to ports as far away as Scotland, Wales and Ireland. What Was Shipped? Coasters (vessels that travelled these coastal routes) transported many types of food, products and raw materials to and from Liverpool. Coal was transported from Lancashire to power industry and steam ships, and to warm homes. Salt from Cheshire was used in industry, e.g. to make soap. China clay from Cornwall was used for making paper and fine ceramics (pottery). Iron from Furness (Lancashire coast) and stone from North Wales were used for many different purposes including building roads and making machinery. Foodstuffs and animals for slaughter. Manufactured goods for export, such as pottery from Staffordshire and ironwork from Liverpool. Coastal Vessels Flats - Until the end of the 19th century, small wooden sailing vessels known as Mersey flats were used on local rivers and to ports on the North Wales and Lancashire coasts. Many flats were built in Northwich, Runcorn and Widnes, and were ideal for a number of reasons: Flats were strongly built and could carry heavy cargoes. They had a small draught and flat bottoms so they could be loaded and unloaded on the beach and would stay upright at low tide. They only needed a crew of three people. This made them cheap to run and easy to manoeuvre. They could sail with little or no ballast. Schooners - These were larger than flats. They carried almost any cargo to Ireland and beyond. They were strongly built of wood, with two or three masts rigged fore-and-aft. By 1890's schooners were built of iron or steel instead, and some even had steam or diesel engines, e.g. the Merseyside Maritime Museum's three-masted vessel, De Wadden (1917). Coastal steamers - From the late 19th century, steam boats became more popular than sailing vessels as they did not need certain winds or currents, and became more economic to run. They provided vital coastal services from Liverpool until World War II. Back to the map - at the link above. Janet

The mail between Gordon and Walter is most interesting, and it occurs to me to comment that all this could have been done off list, and this list would have been the loser. Please do send your stories and information to the list - it makes it all worth while. But put your names in the subject line for those who are only interested in names. Thank you Marged

May please ask you to CUT THE TAILS OFF YOUR MAILS I feel quite poetic this morning - but really, one or two of the mails coming to the list in the last few days have been VERY long, full of previous mails and also all the addresses. This makes a big mess on the Rootsweb site, and I do care about what it looks like Marged

Hi again Walter If you were "chuffed" to discover that you are third cousin twice removed to a knight of the realm wonder how you'll feel when I tell you that you are also first cousin 9 times removed to a Bishop? That is in fact the relationship you and I enjoy to Thomas WILSON (b1663 Burton) who was Bishop of Sodor & Man from 1697 until his death in 1755. There's no money left in the till though, I'm afraid, as every last penny disappeared long ago in the direction of the Bish's in-laws, the PATTEN's of Warrington. By a subtle change of name from PATTEN to WILSON this line secured their financial future for generations, as you'll see at :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wilson-Patten,_1st_Baron_Winmarleigh Thomas WILSON was a great-grandson of Thomas BROWNE and Alice MEOLS who were married on 19 November 1592 in Burton St Nicholas, these people being 9 x great-grandparents to you and I + one or two others on this list. One of Thomas WILSON's grandmothers was a Cicely FELLS who married John SHERLOCK on 27 July 1607 in Woodchurch Holy Cross, these people also being 9 x great-grandparents to you and I as well as direct ancestors to several others on this list. There have been some misconceptions, indeed some plain untruths, written about Thomas WILSON's maternal line over the centuries which Yvonne (Purdy) and I + another cousin and one of my brothers are trying to have recognised in a "paper" which we submitted to the Isle of Man Natural History and Antiquarian Society last year. If the IoM NH&AS accept our findings then they will hopefully one day appear in print instead of just being on a web-site as at present. See :- http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/people/bishops/bpwil.htm Hope you find this of some interest. Regards Gordon From: "WALTER JONES" <alsrecs@btopenworld.com> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Common ancestors >Hello Gordon, >How are you? thanks very much for that Info:- I must >admit I did not know all you've told me, and I'm quite chuffed, Imagine >having a "Sir" in the Family, things are looking up eh!? >I seem to remember reading a bit about the Tunnel, and >I recognised the name but didn't know he was ours, so to speak, where >does >he actually fit in? >How about you?, are you due a Gong or Knighthood yet? >I'm not, as far as I know. Anyway I'll now have to get this latest Info:- >into my Tree, and I'd be very happy to receive any more you're willing to >pass on. >I wrote to Shirley(Williams Contact?) last night but >not heard back just yet, I don't know how she fits in yet, but it will be >on the GRAHAM side I reckon. >I'll leave it there for now, speak again soon? >Regards to you and yours. >Walter.

Hi again walter If you were "chuffed" to find that you are third cousin twice removed to a knight of the realm ----- Original Message ----- From: "WALTER JONES" <alsrecs@btopenworld.com> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Common ancestors > Hello Gordon, > How are you? thanks very much for that Info:- I must > admit I did not know all you've told me, and I'm quite chuffed, Imagine > having a "Sir" in the Family, things are looking up eh!? > > I seem to remember reading a bit about the Tunnel, and > I recognised the name but didn't know he was ours, so to speak, where does > he actually fit in? > > How about you?, are you due a Gong or Knighthood yet? > I'm not, as far as I know. Anyway I'll now have to get this latest Info:- > into my Tree, and I'd be very happy to receive any more you're willing to > pass on. > > I wrote to Shirley(Williams Contact?) last night but > not heard back just yet, I don't know how she fits in yet, but it will be > on the GRAHAM side I reckon. > > I'll leave it there for now, speak again soon? > > Regards to you and yours. > Walter. > > > Gordon Evans <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> wrote: > Hi Walter > > The post I made earlier this evening, subject Robert RAINFORD/Maggie > HUGHES, > makes mention of a Nancy JONES (b1780 Great Meols) marrying a William > EVANS > on 8 January 1799 in Liverpool St Nicholas. > In case you weren't already aware of it can I tell you that these people > are > in fact your great-great-great-grandparents, Nancy's parents Peter & > Elizabeth JONES being plus another "great"? > Which means that you are also related to the extravagantly-named Sir > Archibald Tutton James SALVIDGE, MP, JP, Privy Councillor, reputed to be > the > driving force behind the construction of the first Mersey Tunnel. I > calculate his relationship to you and I to be 3rd cousin twice removed. > (I have a photograph of him somewhere boring through the last section of > the > tunnel, which I'll try to dig out and send as an e-mail attachment). > > Regards > Gordon > > From: "WALTER JONES" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 9:59 PM > Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Grahams > >>Hello Rory, >>Sorry I'm a bit late, but my GRAHAMS came from Scotland, but Williams >are >>from Ireland, but Thanks for the Info:- anyway. >>Regards, >>Walter, Scotland. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MERSEYSIDE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Walter >where does he actually fit in? Thomas and Nancy (Beck) JONES' second daughter Mary JONES (b1803 Great Meols) is your first cousin 4 times removed (mine too, of course + Yvonne Purdy's removed once more). After her first husband Thomas HUGHES (b1804 Hoose) was "found drowned" in November 1830, leaving her with a two year-old son and six months pregnant with a second child, she re-married William CROXTON (b1811 Little Meols) on 2 May 1834 in Liverpool St Peter. Children of this marriage, all born in Hoose, are :- 1835 Sarah (m Archibald Tutton SALVIDGE 1861 West Kirby) 1837 Samuel (m Mary STRONG 1863 West Kirby) 1838 Jane 1840 Hannah (m Joseph BALL 1862 Hoylake Holy Trinity) 1841 Mary (d 1842) 1843 Mary Ann (d 1844) 1844 William (d 1844) 1847 James (m Sarah KNOWLES 1872 Liverpool) Children of Archibald Tutton SALVIDGE (born 1833/4) and Sarah CROXTON, all born in Birkenhead :- 1862 William Richard (m Margaret BILLINGTON 1887 B'head St Mary 1863 Archibald Tutton James (m Alice McKERNAN 1885 Liverpool) 1867 Frances (m Mark BREACH 1899 West Kirby St Bridget) 1869 Edward Cornelius Tutton 1871 Sarah The SALVIDGE's were originally from down Zummerzett way, this probably being young Archie in the 1841 Census :- HO 107/13 page 7 Sidcot, Winscombe, Somerset Richard SALVIDGE, 30 , grocer, Y (born in county) Charlotte, 30, Y Frances, 8, Y Archibald, 7, Y Henry 6, Y Lilian, 5, Y John, 2, Y Lucinda STOCK, 7 Several other people on this list may be able to identify a connection to the same gentleman via the CROXTON's of Little Meols? Mary JONES' spouse from the 1834 Liverpool St Peter marriage was the second child of James & Hannah CROXTON, both of whom died in Little Meols in 1842 and 1840 respectively. Children of James and Hannah CROXTON, all born in Little Meols :- 1809 Samuel (d 1833) 1811 William (m Mary JONES 1834 Liverpool St Peter) 1814 Hannah (m Joseph COVENTRY 1835 Liverpool St Martin) 1817 John 1820 Mary (m Peter SPARKS 1842 West Kirby St Bridget) 1823 James (m Ann c1850) 1825 Robert (m Margaret HUGHES 1856 Liverpool) 1828 Joseph (m Jane Nuthall LEDSHAM 1849 Wallasey St Hilary) 1830 Eliza (m John COVENTRY 1851 Liverpool) Regards Gordon From: "WALTER JONES" <alsrecs@btopenworld.com> To: <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Common ancestors >Hello Gordon, >How are you? thanks very much for that Info:- I must >admit I did not know all you've told me, and I'm quite chuffed, Imagine >having a "Sir" in the Family, things are looking up eh!? >I seem to remember reading a bit about the Tunnel, and >I recognised the name but didn't know he was ours, so to speak, where >does >he actually fit in? >Regards to you and yours. >Walter.