Peter, We all know how hard it is starting off fresh, so we try to make it as painless as possible, we like knocking down Brick Walls if we can, thanks for calling my Starters Help List a little gem it's not been called that before. Keep Searching they aren't going anywhere. Ron Fitzpatrick South Australia Ex Liverpool and Wirral. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 4:39 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] NEW MEMBER E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10000e http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/

Dorothy, I've been quiet today as that piece of information you sent over in combination with some that Lesley sent me has proved to be very useful indeed. I've been trying to work through it all. So I've now drawn a family tree to work out the whens and wheres. One thing that we have become stuck on, and something you maybe able to shed light on, is the "Harry Burgham 1868 Gloucester Oil Cake Pressman" in the 1901 census. We are wondering if this is a misprint, or is he a son of Henry Burgham. Do you have the original scan of the document? The Leslie A Burgham marrying Winifred Davies in 1924 at Liverpool is certainly correct for us. Kind regards. Pete On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:04:05 +0100, dorothy <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Pete > > I think it might be the right marriage?? > Leslie A Burgham to Winifred Davies in 124 at Liverpool Register Office--this might indicate a RC marriage. > > Leslie Arthur Burgham b March quarter 1902 Gloucester > > Dorothy W Burgham b Mar quarter 1925 Liverpool mmn Davies. > > Norman L Burgham b Dec quarter 1927 Liverpool mmn Davies > > Audrey M Burgham Dec quarter 1933 Liverpool mmn Davies > > 1938 Directory > Henry Burgham Works Foreman 171 Northbrook Rd Liverpool 8 > Leslie Burgham Motor Driver 169 Northbrook St > > also a > Vincent Burgham Fitter 111 Alderson Rd Liverpool 15 > > Vincent N Burgham m Edith Fletcher 1915 West Derby Register Office. > They had at least 3 children > Ivy E 1920 > John C 1929 > James D 1931 > > Vincent Norman H Burgham b Dec quarter 1896 > Ledbury Herts/Worcs? > > 1901 census > 17 Tredworth Rd Gloucester > > Harry Burgham 1868 Gloucester Oil Cake Pressman > Annie 1876 > Vincent 1897 Ledbury > Doris 1898 > Cecil 1899 > Harry Wheeler 1879 Glos Brother in Law Engineers Planer > > Henry Burgham m Annie Wheeler Mar quarter 1896 Westbury on Severn > > > Dorothy >------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dorothy wrote :- >Vincent Norman H Burgham b Dec quarter 1896 >Ledbury Herts/Worcs? With respect, Ledbury is a town in HEREFORDSHIRE. Herts (HERTFORDSHIRE) is a completetly different animal - some 100 miles or so further east. :-) Regards Gordon

Hi Pete I think it might be the right marriage?? Leslie A Burgham to Winifred Davies in 124 at Liverpool Register Office--this might indicate a RC marriage. Leslie Arthur Burgham b March quarter 1902 Gloucester Dorothy W Burgham b Mar quarter 1925 Liverpool mmn Davies. Norman L Burgham b Dec quarter 1927 Liverpool mmn Davies Audrey M Burgham Dec quarter 1933 Liverpool mmn Davies 1938 Directory Henry Burgham Works Foreman 171 Northbrook Rd Liverpool 8 Leslie Burgham Motor Driver 169 Northbrook St also a Vincent Burgham Fitter 111 Alderson Rd Liverpool 15 Vincent N Burgham m Edith Fletcher 1915 West Derby Register Office. They had at least 3 children Ivy E 1920 John C 1929 James D 1931 Vincent Norman H Burgham b Dec quarter 1896 Ledbury Herts/Worcs? 1901 census 17 Tredworth Rd Gloucester Harry Burgham 1868 Gloucester Oil Cake Pressman Annie 1876 Vincent 1897 Ledbury Doris 1898 Cecil 1899 Harry Wheeler 1879 Glos Brother in Law Engineers Planer Henry Burgham m Annie Wheeler Mar quarter 1896 Westbury on Severn Dorothy

It says June 1924. you can get the cert too from free bmd. http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl Marriages Jun 1924 Burgham Leslie A Davies Liverpool 8b 436 Lesley Is it possible to find the exact wedding date of the Leslie Arthur marriage in Liverpool in 1924? Where would the best place place to obtain a certificate for it? Does anybody have anymore information on a Lovells sweet factory in Liverpool if indeed there was one? Kind regards Pete

Marriages Sep 1915 Burgham Florence M Lovell Newport M. 11a 537 Lesley

Hi Pete just absorbing what you have written. Will take a look and get back to you. In the mean time here is the dates of the census. Ttfn. Lesley 1841 Census. At the beginning of each Enumerator's booklet there is a set of instructions. The part about ages reads - "Age and Sex". Write the age of each person opposite to the name in one of the two columns headed "Males" and "Females", according to the sex. Write the age of every person under 15 years of age as it is stated to you. For persons aged 15 years and upwards, write the lowest term of 5 years within which the age is. Thus - for Persons aged 15 years and under 20 write 15, 20 years and under 25 write 20 25 years and under 30 write 25 30 years and under 35 write 30 35 years and under 40 write 35 40 years and under 45 write 40 45 years and under 50 write 45 50 years and under 55 write 50 55 years and under 60 write 55 60 years and under 65 write 60 65 years and under 70 write 65 70 years and under 75 write 70 and so on up to the greatest ages. If no more can be ascertained respecting the age of any person than that the person is a child or is grown up, write "under 20", or "above 20", as the case may be. [endquote] 10 Mar 1801 No longer exists, with a few exceptions 27 May 1811 No longer exists, with a few exceptions 28 May 1821 No longer exists, with a few exceptions 30 May 1831 No longer exists, with a few exceptions 7 June 1841 30 March 1851 7 April 1861 2 April 1871 3 April 1881 5 April 1891 31 March 1901 Available on the web 2 Apr 1911 100 year closure 19 Jun 1921 100 year closure 26 Apr 1931 Destroyed by fire during WW2 1941 Not taken due to the war.

Welcome to the list Pete - I hope you get some good responses to your queries. Marged Hello everybody, :-) Well, I've watched the list roll by now for a couple of months and even just reading the posts has given me quite a lot of tips of where to start researching the family tree. Thankyou for the starters help list too, a little gem! I've been amazed at how fast and from where the responses come from.

Hello everybody, :-) Well, I've watched the list roll by now for a couple of months and even just reading the posts has given me quite a lot of tips of where to start researching the family tree. Thankyou for the starters help list too, a little gem! I've been amazed at how fast and from where the responses come from. So to make prpoper use of the list I've been having a good rumage through various sites first in order to ask some more targeted question for the stuff I can't locate. I haven't written away for any other details yet. I thought I'd wait until I've exhausted the online options before going further afield. With some aspects of the family tree I've made more progress online than I ever thought possible. I've rounded up what I know in the hope it might trigger something for others. I've been careful to word it in such a way to give weight to things we feel are certainties but also mention other more vague information which we're not so sure about. My Grandfather was Leslie Burgham. We think he was born 27 November 1901 or 27 November 1902 and worked for Lovells sweet factory as a driver somewhere round the late 1930s to early 1940s. G.F. Lovell & Co Ltd seem to have mainly been based in Newport, Gwent with another operation in Manchester but did they ever have an operation in Liverpool? Apparently my grandmother and grandfather met while working for Lovells. The spelling of both Leslie & Burgham is correct. Its quite often mixed with Burgum especially as you go further back. I can place a "Mrs Burgham" from an addressed family postcard at 171 Northbrook St , Princes Park , Liverpool 8 in 1934. Northbrook St has since been severly truncated and is now only a short street. We think he left Northbrook St and moved into Alderson Road, Liverpool in 1960. His brother also lived in Alderson Road we think somewhere between Cardigan Street and Lawrence Road. Leslie Burgham was certainly still alive in 1966. We think he died 6 December 1966 or 6 December 1967 aged 65. He's buried in Smithdown Rd Cemetery, Which I think I'm correct in saying is now called Toxteth Park cemetery? Free BMD lists only 4 births for "Leslie Burgham" Leslie Edward Stock Burgham registered as being born in Chepstow 1901. and.... Leslie Arthur Burgham registered as being born in Gloucester 1902. Two other Leslie Burghams born in Sunderland 1907/1908 I've yet to check out. There are some splendid family tree sites on the internet for Burgham http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bfhs/MasterL_1.html these two in particular being of interest http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bfhs/ftdd.html although spelt 'burgum' has a heavy toxteth park link but not names I can link to and this one: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bfhs/ftvv.html the 'Burgham' spelling matches now and showing " Leslie Edward Stock Burgham ". The birthdate is about right at 1901 but the date of death doesn't fit, it's 8 years too late for it to be the same person. Just to confuse the issue even further a family member recalls Leslie's wife's name as 'Winny' probably 'Winifred'. The only marriage FreeBMD lists for a Leslie Burgham is to a Winifred Davies marrying a Leslie Arthur Burgham in Apr/May/Jun 1924 in Liverpool. The 1901 census records Leslie Burgham 2M (born in Gloucestershire Lydney) Gloucestershire Lydney I'm assuming '2M' means 2 months old. Would the census record date been the end of the 1901 year? We think Leslie and Winifred(?) had 3 daughters as follows: Dorothy (the eldest?) Unknown (possibly Audrey ?). Possibly born between 1933 and 1943? Anna (the youngest?) married to a coloured chap (quite unusual for those days). Also a family member "H Burgham" who retired from CWS Ltd (Co-op) African Oil Mills , Liverpool L1 in 1941. This is possibly my great grandfather. African Oil Mills seems to have be involved with animal feeds especially nuts from what I can make out. The factory, now gone, seems to have been replaced with Norton Scrap metals at the bottom of Parliment St and Flint Street http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6941&highlight=african+mills We also have a number of unaddressed old postcards from various parts of the UK but they seem to cluster around Monmouthshire / Gloucester / Cinderford / Malverns and Scotland notably Kirkcudbright. The cards all live in a large old Lovell's Toffee tin box. I'm now going to contact Lovells who seem to be going still in some form in Gwent but have been through a management buyout and then aquisition by another company. I'm also going to try to trace a records dept for the Co-Op to see if I can find more information on H. Burgham. Some questions I'm trying to firstly properly indentify Leslie Burgham. Can anybody find, or does anybody know of, another Leslie Burgham? Is it possible to find the exact wedding date of the Leslie Arthur marriage in Liverpool in 1924? Where would the best place place to obtain a certificate for it? Does anybody have anymore information on a Lovells sweet factory in Liverpool if indeed there was one? Kind regards Pete Some Keywords for those searching in the future GF Lovells G.F. Lovells Toffee Rex the king of toffees On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 12:53:47 -0000, LiverpoolLady <[email protected]> wrote: > Welcome Pete...pull up a chair and tell us all about yourself. Lesley Ü > > All mail scanned No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a > large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marged > > We have a new member, Pete, and I'd like to welcome him to the list. Go > right ahead Pete and ask any questions you have relating to Liverpool and > Merseyside in general > > Marged (in Southport) > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008 > 5:52 PM > > > >------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Yes that's correct Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Evans" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > Paul wrote :- > >>You might also like to try BroadGreen Cemetery > > Presumably this is the one between Thomas Drive and Broadgreen Hospital - > just down the road from the flat I had in Seymour Road many years ago? > > Gordon > > From: "Paul Goodman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:49 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > >>It is unlikely that if Jewish he will have been cremated as it is highly >>unusual for Jews to cremate. You might also like to try BroadGreen >>Cemetery >>which took over from Deane Road. about 100 years ago. >>Paul Goodman >>Folkestone Kent > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

There may be things of interest to family historians in this newly discovered archive of Cunard Line records: http://tinyurl.com/3pv9ez David

Yes, I realise that about cremation Paul, but Southport Crematorium is just the place where the archives are kept for all cemeteries (except those in the grounds of Churches and of course Synagogues). Your mention of Broadgreen Cemetery reminds me that every time I went home from work in Liverpool, or every time I went into town for ten years or more, I passed the Broadgreen Cemetery and read the inscription on the gate, which was written in English on one gate and Hebrew on the other "Here the Weary Are At Rest" which seemed very beautiful to me as a young person. This was after we had left the Fairfield/Kensington district of the Deane Road Cemetery, which I had passed on my way to the Library or the Cinema but never noticed. Marged It is unlikely that if Jewish he will have been cremated as it is highly unusual for Jews to cremate. You might also like to try BroadGreen Cemetery which took over from Deane Road. about 100 years ago. Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > Jeff, I know it's something you've probably tried, but have you asked at > Southport Crematorium? They hold all the records for the Local Authority > cemeteries and there may be a Jewish section in Duke Street. > > They are usually very helpful indeed > > Marged > > > That's got my imagination going! Seriously though, if records are going > to > be accessible and anyone has a chance to look for Abraham Beamish who > died > 8th March 1917 I'd be grateful. He died in Ainsdale. I've so far failed > to > find where he is buried, family lore says he may have been Jewish so > maybe > he's there. > Cheers, Jeff > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Paul, I'll give that a try. I think that the reference to the crematorium was just regarding the location of the records staff, but it's helpful to know that Jews rarely use cremation. Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Goodman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > It is unlikely that if Jewish he will have been cremated as it is highly > unusual for Jews to cremate. You might also like to try BroadGreen > Cemetery > which took over from Deane Road. about 100 years ago. > > Paul Goodman > Folkestone Kent > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marged" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 5:01 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > > >> Jeff, I know it's something you've probably tried, but have you asked at >> Southport Crematorium? They hold all the records for the Local Authority >> cemeteries and there may be a Jewish section in Duke Street. >> >> They are usually very helpful indeed >> >> Marged >> >> >> That's got my imagination going! Seriously though, if records are going >> to >> be accessible and anyone has a chance to look for Abraham Beamish who >> died >> 8th March 1917 I'd be grateful. He died in Ainsdale. I've so far failed >> to >> find where he is buried, family lore says he may have been Jewish so >> maybe >> he's there. >> Cheers, Jeff >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Marged, thanks. I have tried but I should try again. There is a Jewish section at Duke Street by the way - two in fact. I tramped around them some time ago. Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marged" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > Jeff, I know it's something you've probably tried, but have you asked at > Southport Crematorium? They hold all the records for the Local Authority > cemeteries and there may be a Jewish section in Duke Street. > > They are usually very helpful indeed > > Marged > > > That's got my imagination going! Seriously though, if records are going > to > be accessible and anyone has a chance to look for Abraham Beamish who > died > 8th March 1917 I'd be grateful. He died in Ainsdale. I've so far failed > to > find where he is buried, family lore says he may have been Jewish so > maybe > he's there. > Cheers, Jeff > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks Gordon, no I hadn't. I didn't even know the cemetery existed until the recent post. I've sent an enquiry. Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Evans" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > Hi Jeff > > Wondered if you'd noticed Item 4 on this site? :- > > http://www.deaneroadcemetery.com/register.htm > > Regards > Gordon > > From: "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:23 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > >>That's got my imagination going! Seriously though, if records are going to >>be accessible and anyone has a chance to look for Abraham Beamish who died >>8th March 1917 I'd be grateful. He died in Ainsdale. I've so far failed to >>find where he is buried, family lore says he may have been Jewish so maybe >>he's there. >>Cheers, Jeff > >>From: "patsy welsh" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:43 PM >>Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery >> >>Hi All, >>The Jewish cemetery in Deane Road, Kensington is having an open day >>on the 18th June, according to tonights Echo, page 4. >>Best Regards, >>Peter > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Paul wrote :- >You might also like to try BroadGreen Cemetery Presumably this is the one between Thomas Drive and Broadgreen Hospital - just down the road from the flat I had in Seymour Road many years ago? Gordon From: "Paul Goodman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery >It is unlikely that if Jewish he will have been cremated as it is highly >unusual for Jews to cremate. You might also like to try BroadGreen >Cemetery >which took over from Deane Road. about 100 years ago. >Paul Goodman >Folkestone Kent

It is unlikely that if Jewish he will have been cremated as it is highly unusual for Jews to cremate. You might also like to try BroadGreen Cemetery which took over from Deane Road. about 100 years ago. Paul Goodman Folkestone Kent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marged" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > Jeff, I know it's something you've probably tried, but have you asked at > Southport Crematorium? They hold all the records for the Local Authority > cemeteries and there may be a Jewish section in Duke Street. > > They are usually very helpful indeed > > Marged > > > That's got my imagination going! Seriously though, if records are going > to > be accessible and anyone has a chance to look for Abraham Beamish who > died > 8th March 1917 I'd be grateful. He died in Ainsdale. I've so far failed > to > find where he is buried, family lore says he may have been Jewish so > maybe > he's there. > Cheers, Jeff > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jeff, I know it's something you've probably tried, but have you asked at Southport Crematorium? They hold all the records for the Local Authority cemeteries and there may be a Jewish section in Duke Street. They are usually very helpful indeed Marged That's got my imagination going! Seriously though, if records are going to be accessible and anyone has a chance to look for Abraham Beamish who died 8th March 1917 I'd be grateful. He died in Ainsdale. I've so far failed to find where he is buried, family lore says he may have been Jewish so maybe he's there. Cheers, Jeff

Hi Jeff Wondered if you'd noticed Item 4 on this site? :- http://www.deaneroadcemetery.com/register.htm Regards Gordon From: "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery >That's got my imagination going! Seriously though, if records are going to >be accessible and anyone has a chance to look for Abraham Beamish who died >8th March 1917 I'd be grateful. He died in Ainsdale. I've so far failed to >find where he is buried, family lore says he may have been Jewish so maybe >he's there. >Cheers, Jeff >From: "patsy welsh" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:43 PM >Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > >Hi All, >The Jewish cemetery in Deane Road, Kensington is having an open day >on the 18th June, according to tonights Echo, page 4. >Best Regards, >Peter

That's got my imagination going! Seriously though, if records are going to be accessible and anyone has a chance to look for Abraham Beamish who died 8th March 1917 I'd be grateful. He died in Ainsdale. I've so far failed to find where he is buried, family lore says he may have been Jewish so maybe he's there. Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "patsy welsh" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 4:43 PM Subject: [ENG-MERSEYSIDE] Deane Road Cemetery > Hi All, > The Jewish cemetery in Deane Road, Kensington is having an open day > on the 18th June, according to tonights Echo, page 4. > Best Regards, > Peter > _________________________________________________________________ > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000002ukm/direct/01/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >