Hi Irene Thank you very much for the advice. I just searched for the marriage on Ancestry, and hey presto, there it was! I really didn't think it would be there, having failed to find it on Family Search. Sadly, it doesn't include the information I really was hoping for which is the bride's father's name, but I am happy to have the certificate and be able to tick it off the list as another route tried in any case. While I am on the subject something rather unusual came up to do with this family yesterday and I wonder what anyone's thoughts are on this? My 3 x great grandmother was Elizabeth Cardwell (she of the 1828 marriage to William Roberts) and in the 1841 census she is in the same household as an Ellen Cardwell. Both women are listed as 30, so born about 1806-1811. I decided to treat them as sisters and search for parents who baptised girls of both of these names in those years. I found a baptism of an Ellen Cardwell in Manchester Cathedral on 28 Dec 1806, daughter of William and Mary, so she is a perfect fit for the Ellen Cardwell of the 1841 census. I also found a baptism of Elizabeth Cardwell, daughter of William and Mary, however, she was baptised on 5 October in the same year as Ellen and the records states that she was baptised in a non-conformist church. Can anyone suggest why a set of parents might baptise two children only three months apart and in churches of different denominations, or should I just accept that these two girls are not the sisters I am looking for? There are a couple of other Elizabeth Cardwell baptisms on Family Search but none match as closely in location or year as this one does. Many thanks Joanne -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Irene Marlborough Sent: Monday, 18 February 2013 2:57 AM To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Marriage Records for Manchester Cathedral Hello Joanne: If the parish record images you are currently using are from familysearch then I think there's not much of anything useful for the Cathedral otherwise known as the Collegiate Church and dedicated to St. Mary, St. Denys and St. George. However, recently, Ancestry have made a large number of Manchester parish record images available. This does include the Collegiate church and St Mary Parsonage (a different church). Not everything is there though. I can't seem to find Cathedral marriages for 1858 nor St John's 1848 marriages. I don't know if this is an oversight or if these are just missing. It's certainly very nice to be able to look at these images and use the search engine - though the way the search works is driving me crazy. If you live in the UK, then you should be able to use your public library to view Ancestry's web site. Otherwise, I believe it's possible to visit an LDS Genealogical library and get access there. Sometimes just posting a query to the list will get you some results! Best wishes, Irene :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! Be sure list mail is in PLAIN TEXT. Please SNIP when replying. Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Joanne wrote: "Can anyone suggest why a set of parents might baptise two children only three months apart and in churches of different denominations... " Yes, there are any number of scenarios that might explain this. Here are some: 1) The babies are twins but one was in dire danger of dying at birth. Someone baptised the baby as an emergency and had it recorded (as a private baptism) at the local church. Later the 2nd twin was "done" at the normal time. 2) The family are a bit lax about baptisms and their 2 year old suddenly got really ill. The nearest clergy attended and baptised the child. Three months later the family takes the new baby to their own church to be baptised. 3) The family have the first child baptised (aged about 1 year) and then fall out with the clergy. The 2nd church they attend has a new curate determined to keep up with infant baptisms and insists that the new baby is baptised within 6 weeks of birth. Of course, if Cardwell is a fairly common name then you may just have 2 different families. It's unfortunate that the Collegiate church baptisms are so terse. There's absolutely nothing to help you identify that family. I don't know if you have these non-Conformist Wesleyan Chapel baptisms: Elizabeth born 28 Jul 1806 bap 5 Oct 1806 Gt Bridgewater St. Chapel Hannah born 17 Jul 1804 bap 2 Sep 1804 Gt. Bridgewater St. Chapel Mary born 18 Apr 1802 bap 23 May 1802 Gravel Lane Wesleyan, Salford Margaret born 22 Feb 1800 bap 30 Mar 1800 Gravel Lane James born 17 Apr 1798 bap 29 Apr 1798 Gravel Lane Sarah born 19 Aug 1796 bap 4 Sep 1796 Gravel Lane (mistranscribed as 1798) These non-Conformist baptisms state that William was a blacksmith of 161 Newton Lane. I have to say that they seem to be very diligent about having the babies baptised promptly and all at Wesleyan Chapels. I can't imagine why they would baptise Ellen at the Collegiate Church unless they were in a big hurry. And there really isn't enough time from 28 Jul to 28 December even for a pre-term baby.... The baptism evidence would tend to indicate that the girls are not sisters but since both were apparently daughters of William & Mary, you'll need to keep an open mind about it. I think that the marriage of William Cardwell (smith) and Mary Hay at the Collegiate church in 1794 looks promising. HTH, Irene

I can't answer the original question but I have just come across a case where 5 siblings were baptised at the same time! Eldest was 11, youngest given as "infant". Must be cheaper in bulk! Richard -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Irene Marlborough Sent: 18 February 2013 20:20 To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Marriage Records for Manchester Cathedral Joanne wrote: "Can anyone suggest why a set of parents might baptise two children only three months apart and in churches of different denominations... " Yes, there are any number of scenarios that might explain this. Here are some: 1) The babies are twins but one was in dire danger of dying at birth. Someone baptised the baby as an emergency and had it recorded (as a private baptism) at the local church. Later the 2nd twin was "done" at the normal time. 2) The family are a bit lax about baptisms and their 2 year old suddenly got really ill. The nearest clergy attended and baptised the child. Three months later the family takes the new baby to their own church to be baptised. 3) The family have the first child baptised (aged about 1 year) and then fall out with the clergy. The 2nd church they attend has a new curate determined to keep up with infant baptisms and insists that the new baby is baptised within 6 weeks of birth. Of course, if Cardwell is a fairly common name then you may just have 2 different families. It's unfortunate that the Collegiate church baptisms are so terse. There's absolutely nothing to help you identify that family. I don't know if you have these non-Conformist Wesleyan Chapel baptisms: Elizabeth born 28 Jul 1806 bap 5 Oct 1806 Gt Bridgewater St. Chapel Hannah born 17 Jul 1804 bap 2 Sep 1804 Gt. Bridgewater St. Chapel Mary born 18 Apr 1802 bap 23 May 1802 Gravel Lane Wesleyan, Salford Margaret born 22 Feb 1800 bap 30 Mar 1800 Gravel Lane James born 17 Apr 1798 bap 29 Apr 1798 Gravel Lane Sarah born 19 Aug 1796 bap 4 Sep 1796 Gravel Lane (mistranscribed as 1798) These non-Conformist baptisms state that William was a blacksmith of 161 Newton Lane. I have to say that they seem to be very diligent about having the babies baptised promptly and all at Wesleyan Chapels. I can't imagine why they would baptise Ellen at the Collegiate Church unless they were in a big hurry. And there really isn't enough time from 28 Jul to 28 December even for a pre-term baby.... The baptism evidence would tend to indicate that the girls are not sisters but since both were apparently daughters of William & Mary, you'll need to keep an open mind about it. I think that the marriage of William Cardwell (smith) and Mary Hay at the Collegiate church in 1794 looks promising. HTH, Irene :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! Be sure list mail is in PLAIN TEXT. Please SNIP when replying. Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message