I have found a parish baptism in 1840 recorded in the usual way,ie: "Thomas xxxx and Mary had a daughter Susan baptised". However, I can not find a marriage and Mary got married to someone else 4 years later and was described as a spinster. She had her daughter Susan living with her and her husband in the census in 1851 and called by her husband's surname. I am wondering which is the more likely scenario: (a) that Thomas and Mary were not married or (b) they were married and perhaps split up, and Mary described herself as a spinster at her marriage in 1844. Or are both of these improbable?? Jim Whitton

Hi Jim, In 1840, if the parents were not married the fathers name would not be on the baptism, unless the vicar wrote a 'little note' alongside. Usually a child of an unmarried mother would have read, 'base born' or illegitimate child of xxx. On rare occasions if the parents were not married, but the father insisted on his name being added, the child would be recorded as dau. of Thomas xxx and Mary xxxx. Have you found them in the 1841 census? or a death/Burial for the father? Sometimes, the father just took off never to be seen again, but the woman with a child would most probably call herself a widow. As far as the marriage entry 4years later, she may have just let the vicar think she was a spinster, or he didn't ask the question. It would be ususal for the child to take the name of the step-father in the next census. So your theories are all possible, but sorting them out is the headache we all come across accasionally. Yours in Genealogy, Jan, in sunny QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Whitton" <birdboot@btinternet.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 5:14 AM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Baptism - child of unmarried parents >I have found a parish baptism in 1840 recorded in the usual way,ie: > "Thomas xxxx and Mary had a daughter Susan baptised". However, I can not > find a marriage and Mary got married to someone else 4 years later and was > described as a spinster. She had her daughter Susan living with her and > her > husband in the census in 1851 and called by her husband's surname. > > > > I am wondering which is the more likely scenario: (a) that Thomas and > Mary > were not married or (b) they were married and perhaps split up, and Mary > described herself as a spinster at her marriage in 1844. Or are both of > these improbable?? > > > > Jim Whitton > > > > > :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > Be sure list mail is in PLAIN TEXT. > > Please SNIP when replying. > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks. Thomas, Mary and Susan are in the 1841 census, living with Thomas's father. Thomas is 45 years old to Mary's 20, which might lend a little more weight to the theory that the child was illegitimate. I can't find any death for Thomas between 1841 and Mary's marriage in 1844. Jim -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of geejay Sent: 28 June 2013 23:35 To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Baptism - child of unmarried parents Hi Jim, In 1840, if the parents were not married the fathers name would not be on the baptism, unless the vicar wrote a 'little note' alongside. Usually a child of an unmarried mother would have read, 'base born' or illegitimate child of xxx. On rare occasions if the parents were not married, but the father insisted on his name being added, the child would be recorded as dau. of Thomas xxx and Mary xxxx. Have you found them in the 1841 census? or a death/Burial for the father? Sometimes, the father just took off never to be seen again, but the woman with a child would most probably call herself a widow. As far as the marriage entry 4years later, she may have just let the vicar think she was a spinster, or he didn't ask the question. It would be ususal for the child to take the name of the step-father in the next census. So your theories are all possible, but sorting them out is the headache we all come across accasionally. Yours in Genealogy, Jan, in sunny QLD, Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Whitton" <birdboot@btinternet.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 5:14 AM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Baptism - child of unmarried parents >I have found a parish baptism in 1840 recorded in the usual way,ie: > "Thomas xxxx and Mary had a daughter Susan baptised". However, I can not > find a marriage and Mary got married to someone else 4 years later and was > described as a spinster. She had her daughter Susan living with her and > her > husband in the census in 1851 and called by her husband's surname. > > > > I am wondering which is the more likely scenario: (a) that Thomas and > Mary > were not married or (b) they were married and perhaps split up, and Mary > described herself as a spinster at her marriage in 1844. Or are both of > these improbable?? > > > > Jim Whitton > > > > > :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > Be sure list mail is in PLAIN TEXT. > > Please SNIP when replying. > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > > :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! Be sure list mail is in PLAIN TEXT. Please SNIP when replying. Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! :-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~:-~: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message