Hello and thankyou for your all your advice and offers of help. The reason Iam asking is I have read somewhere that when a record of birth can't be found in the GRO records it is possible it might be found in local records. I have tried doing allsorts with the above surname including substituting the c for a G to no avail. The person Iam interested in is Walter CLEVES or CLEAVES. born Crumpsall 1884. I have searched other years but pretty sure about his birth year. He is my Gr Uncle . He is in the 1891 census in Accrington born Crumpsall not with his mother that night . Also in the 1901 census this time with his mother who by that time had married . I can find no trace of him before 1891 or his mother Mary CLEVES who also states she was born in Manchester. She is not in any cenuses before 1891 that I can see. Mary CLEVES is my Gr grandmother and the mother of my Grandmother Elsie CLEVES born 1892 Burnley workhouse.(no father listed). There is also no Mary CLEVES IN THE GRO records, have searched from 1862 to 1866. So you see if I could find a birth cert locally for him it would give me a little bit more info. The reason I'm looking for Mary CLEVES birth cert is that when she married in 1894 she stated she was a spinister and her maiden name was CLEVES. So I'm presuming both Walter as well as my grandmother were illegitimate. I have probably given you all far too much info now. Really just want to know where I could go to search local birth records just in case he is there when I come to Manchester. Thankyou Ann Beresford. Ps Have been trying to sort this out on and off for over 20years ! family and other thingsjust keep getting in the way.

Could you clarify which persons were supposed to be born when? The explanations of relationships make it unclear which dates apply to who. You might have luck searching quarter by quarter on first name alone, in case the surname was mistranscribed. I did that with my ggrandmother, whom didn't appear until we stopped assuming that later Census reports of where she was born were correct. They were wrong. She was, for example, born in Manchester in 1869, not Liverpool, and her birth certificate is finally on it's way to me now. I'd try now but can't tell which years go with who from your post. On 8/21/08, AnnBrsfrd@aol.com <AnnBrsfrd@aol.com> wrote: > ... I have tried doing allsorts with the above surname including > substituting the c for a G to no avail. > The person Iam interested in is Walter CLEVES or CLEAVES. born > Crumpsall 1884. I have searched other years but pretty sure about his birth > year. > He is my Gr Uncle . He is in the 1891 census in Accrington born Crumpsall > not > with his mother that night . Also in the 1901 census this time with his > mother > who by that time had married . > I can find no trace of him before 1891 or his mother Mary > CLEVES > who also states she was born in Manchester. She is not in any cenuses > before 1891 that I can see. Mary CLEVES is my Gr grandmother and the mother > of my > Grandmother Elsie CLEVES born 1892 Burnley workhouse.(no father listed). > There is also no Mary CLEVES IN THE GRO records, have searched from 1862 to > 1866. > So you see if I could find a birth cert locally for him it > would give me a little bit more info. The reason I'm looking for Mary CLEVES > birth cert is that when she married in 1894 she stated she was a spinister > and her > maiden name was CLEVES. > So I'm presuming both Walter as well as my grandmother were > illegitimate. > ... > Thankyou > Ann Beresford.