Hi Christine, Looking at the 1861 census page, Charles is listed as age 7, and William Henry as age 4. Lancashire BMD has the following HALE children listed; Fanny (1849), Annie Marsha (1850), Charles (1854) and William Henry (1857) listed as being born in Salford Greengate, and there is an Elizabeth (1861) born in Regent Road, Salford. As I noted yesterday, in 1871, Charles HALE with his three servants are at 10 High Street and the SINGLETON family is at 4 High Street. Did he by any chance run the "Wheat Sheaf Public House"? If so, there is an 1849 map showing the location of said establishment. hth David

Hi David and All, Thanks David, that confirms what I thought, but I just did wonder if the Ancestry transcriber, who thought WH was 14, knew something I didn't. I hadn't looked at Lancashire BMD but have got those children from the censuses and FreeBMD. That is useful to check against - something else may pop up. There is also another child Matthew Frederick born 1863. The father of these children is Matthew b 1816 Ireland. He died Jul-Sep 1870 and had been a publican so I think Charles had taken over and in 1881 Charles is a clerk to a wine merchant so maybe Publican was not to his taste. In 1851 Matthew was an innkeeper at 2 Collier St., Salford; in 1861 he was a Publican and Innkeeper at 10 James St., Thomas St., Manchester; and in 1871 Charles is a publican at 10, High St., Manchester. What is the difference, if any, between a Publican and an Innkeeper? I have no idea about the Wheat Sheaf Public House. What made you come up with that name? What was the its address and where can I access the 1849 map? I have found a small map on a site about the Bull's Head which mentions it but this is nowhere near Thomas St. or High St. and also the current position of the Wheatsheaf is near to Thomas St. but not near to the old position of the Wheat Sheaf on this map. Is this the map you meant? Do you know where I can get more info? Many thanks for the info., much appreciated, but the nature of this hobby is that more info. means more questions! Christine -----Original Message----- From: David Wightmore Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 6:18 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Charles HALE - 1861, -71 Hi Christine, Looking at the 1861 census page, Charles is listed as age 7, and William Henry as age 4. Lancashire BMD has the following HALE children listed; Fanny (1849), Annie Marsha (1850), Charles (1854) and William Henry (1857) listed as being born in Salford Greengate, and there is an Elizabeth (1861) born in Regent Road, Salford. As I noted yesterday, in 1871, Charles HALE with his three servants are at 10 High Street and the SINGLETON family is at 4 High Street. Did he by any chance run the "Wheat Sheaf Public House"? If so, there is an 1849 map showing the location of said establishment. hth David

Hi David and All, I have now found the following pubs in Manchester 1) Wheatsheaf , 30 Oak Street currently a pub from Google maps 2) Wheat Sheaf, Tib Street was a pub - now a car park is there 3) Wheatsheaf, Deansgate pub as late as the 1970's all three above mentioned here:- http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.com/search/label/ 4) Wheat Sheaf London Road (near Granby Row) mentioned here :-http://manchesterhistory.net/manchester/tours/tour9/area9page32.html Tib Street is close to Oak Street so could it be the same pub moved location? Both are close to Thomas Street and High Street where my Hale ancestors lived although I would expect a publican to live on the premises. The London Road one is the one where I have found a 1849 map. I am not sure which one you were referring to David. Christine