Many thanks to Anne and Antony, I have researched the Mary Ann Turtle born to James and Jane - she married sometime in the 1890's, the Mary Ann Turtle that I need to find never married. I have the images for the 1891 census where she is living with the Dunns. I believe that this the correct young lady. On her first son's birth certificate, the name is Patrick Francis McDonald Turtle and on son William's marriage record in Quebec, his father's name is given as Patrick Francis McDonald. Coincidently, on the 1891 census where Mary Ann is living with the Dunns, there is a Patrick McDonald living with another family but I think in the same house. I need the Catholic records because she placed 2 of her sons, William and John, with Catholic charities and William was baptized 4 May 1905 at St Anne's in Oldham, at the age of 5 years old. This ancestor has been extremely difficult to trace. I never thought that there was still people in the late 19th century that didn't register the birth of their children. Live and learn alot! Meredith

Hi Meredith, This link might help you pin point where you need to go to see the registers: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_studies/462/family_history_in_manchester/4 There is a website called "Missing Ancestors" which contains all sorts of information on children's schools and charities from all over England. A lot of it is to do with Industrial Schools, but there are databases always being added that cover more diverse stuff... http://www.missing-ancestors.com/ Hope you get lucky :o) Regards, Sally ---------------------------------------- > ....the Mary Ann Turtle that I need to find never married. I have the images for the 1891 census where she is living with the Dunns. I believe that this the correct young lady. On her first son's birth certificate, the name is Patrick Francis McDonald Turtle and on son William's marriage record in Quebec, his father's name is given as Patrick Francis McDonald. Coincidently, on the 1891 census where Mary Ann is living with the Dunns, there is a Patrick McDonald living with another family but I think in the same house. I need the Catholic records because she placed 2 of her sons, William and John, with Catholic charities and William was baptized 4 May 1905 at St Anne's in Oldham, at the age of 5 years old. This ancestor has been extremely difficult to trace.