Mike, You may already know this, but Ancestry.co.uk shows a John Atkin born in the last quarter of 1840 in Manchester, volume XIV, page 521. I'll send you the image off-list.This same information does not show up on the Lanc BMD. I began wondering if it could have been mis-transcribed, as this has happened to me, so I searched for Alkin in the Lanc BMD and found this record in 1841: ALKIN John Broughton Salford BRO/1/58 <http://www.ukbmdsearch.org.uk/certapp.php?type=births&data=ALKIN%7cJohn%7cBroughton%7cSalford%7c1841%7c1841%7c%7cSD%3aBRO%2f1%2f58%7cA%7c11803%7clancashire%7cSD%7c> There is no matching record for John Alkin in Ancestry... It's a long shot, but I thought I'd throw it out there. - Kathryn ________________________________ From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Mike Morris Sent: Thu 7/3/2008 9:18 AM To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-MAN] John ATKIN birth record in Salford Hi Anne, during the 1841 census for Manchester John ATKIN was recorded as 7 months old. All my best Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne C" <annecwinfield@ntlworld.com> To: "Manchester List" <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 5:49 AM > Have you considered the possibility that he could have been born the year > before? I have an ancestor whose birth was registered in 1882 but, on > receiving the certificate, it turned out that he was actually born the > year before which makes it awkward for family researchers. <snip> ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Kathryn, all the streets you mentioned are in Chorlton on Medlock. But they are not close together. I will send you the four map sections dated around 1894. Park street is confusing. I located this in Chorlton on Medlock and another Park street in Ardwick green a couple of streets nrth of Ogilvie. The confusion is that there is either a building or part of this area named Chorlton on Medlock. You can see for yourself on the map. Did you try and do a Google search re Tootle in Manchester? Regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathryn Nauta" <nautakat@iprimus.com.au> To: <ENG-MANCHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:26 PM > > Wondering if anyone can help me with the following streets: > PARK STREET (there are SEVEN in Manchester! A child was born a > few > months later in Chorlton on Medlock so this might be relevant but I don't > know the location of the postcodes.) > OGILVIE ST Chorlton on Medlock, connections to this street in the > late 1870's, possibly been renamed as I can only find one in London. > LOTHAIR ST again Chorlton on Medlock, through the 1880's, but > can't > find it now. <snip>

Hi folks, There's been talk about tripe... I was just browsing the bookshop here http://www.mlfhs.org.uk when I noticed this which you can buy from them... 4049 A Most Excellent Dish: Lancashire Tripe Trade - £4.25, 145gm M Houlihan. Tales of Lancashire: The tripe trade - history, preparation, etc. Plus 60 tripe recipes from home and abroad. Well illustrated. A4 48pp. Its under "Neil Richardson Publications" on the MLFHS website. Sally in Yorkshire

Sorry, I should have said it is Manchester Central Library! This is the link to the story and pictures of the listed building. It is a beautiful place and where all the Family History, Archives, microfilm, fisches and much more are kept. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1056149_150m_to_save_central_library Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynne To: lancsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [LAN] Central Library patricia williams wrote: >I learned this week that Central Library is ear marked for closure, needing >major repairs! It will be closed for several years!!!! > Which library is this, Pat? Lynne

Hi All I'm struggling to find the following family in 1861. William JOHNSON b 1806 Yorkshire Ann b 1811 Ireland William b 1831 Manchester (in 1861 he's with his wife Susannah at 5 New Islington, Ancoats) Ellen b 1833 Manchester Robert b 1835 Manchester John b 1837 Manchester (in 1861 him and his wife Sarah are lodging with his brother William in Ancoats) Sarah b 1840 Manchester (in 1861 she's in Duckinfield with husband William WALMSLEY) Agnes b 1842 Manchester In 1841 the family are at 19 Woodward St, Ancoats, Williams occupation is brewer In 1851 they are on Short St, St Jude district, again Williams occupation is brewer I know where children William, John and Sarah are, but where are the others?? There's a few possibles for Robert. I think William snr is dead by 1871 as in 1871 there is an Anna Dobson b 1811 widow Dublin, living with William and Susannah at 7 Horne St, St Jude district, she's down as the mother-in-law, but I suspect she's Williams mum Ann. I have no idea yet what part of Yorkshire William is from and so I'm really hoping he is still alive in 1861. Anyone help? Jane :o)

patricia williams wrote: >Sorry, I should have said it is Manchester Central Library! >This is the link to the story and pictures of the listed building. It is a >beautiful place and where all the Family History, Archives, microfilm, >fisches and much more are kept. > >http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1056149_150m_to_save_central_library > > Thanks for the link, Pat. I don't think (hope!) we need to panic just yet. If anyone hears any more about this, do keep us apprised. Best wishes, Lynne

Hi everyone, I'm new to this list and am researching: FRAME (Chorlton upon Medlock, Old Trafford) PENDLEBURY (Worsley, Leigh parish, Bolton) COOKE (Walkden) TAYLOR (Kearsley, Prestwich, Ringley, Moss Side) DAGNALL (Moss Side) Wondering if anyone can help me with the following streets: PARK STREET (there are SEVEN in Manchester! A child was born a few months later in Chorlton on Medlock so this might be relevant but I don't know the location of the postcodes.) OGILVIE ST Chorlton on Medlock, connections to this street in the late 1870's, possibly been renamed as I can only find one in London. LOTHAIR ST again Chorlton on Medlock, through the 1880's, but can't find it now. And last question: does anyone know anything about the TOOTALS COMPANY, in Manchester but not in existence any longer. Cheers, Kathryn (now in Melbourne, Australia but lived at 100 Parkfield St Rusholme until 1960)

Thank you again, Jean Another very kind subscriber sent me this only this week, and yahoo!!!! another family !!!! MariaNSW, Aus > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:59:15 +0000> From: jean.thatcher@btinternet.com> To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] OLIVE, DRURY, ROBINSON, TIPPING from Manchester> > This time it is the 1861 census> Hodgson Street, Eccleshall Bierlow, Yorkshire> John Buxton/Head/ Marr/Age 59/Plasterer/Born Derbyshire Youlgrave> Liddy Buxton/Wife/Marr/Age 57/Born Derbyshire, Youlgrave> Harriett Reed/ Daur/Marr/Age 22/ Tile Dresser/Born Yorkshire Sheffield> William Reed/Son in Law./Age 24/Tile Cutter/.Born Yorkshire Sheffield> John Olive/Grandson/Age 12/ Scholar/Born Lancashire Manchester> Izerell Olive/Grandson?age 10/Scholar/ Born Lancashire Manchester> I have spelt Israel's name as it was spelt on the census.> These are obviously Eliza's parents and sister> Jean> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message> > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~> > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list.> Other people can learn from them!> > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~> > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ New music from the Rogue Traders - listen now! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=832&referral=hotmailtaglineOct07&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/roguetraders

And mine was born a year later!! (with a different surname, I might add!) PatW ----- Original Message ----- From: Anne C To: Manchester List Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 10:49 AM Subject: [ENG-MAN] John ATKIN birth record in Salford Hello Mike Have you considered the possibility that he could have been born the year before? I have an ancestor whose birth was registered in 1882 but, on receiving the certificate, it turned out that he was actually born the year before which makes it awkward for family researchers.

Hello Mike Have you considered the possibility that he could have been born the year before? I have an ancestor whose birth was registered in 1882 but, on receiving the certificate, it turned out that he was actually born the year before which makes it awkward for family researchers. Hope this helps Anne Winfield in Leeds

The Records Office have original or/and copies of all sorts of information. When I asked for their help via e-mail, they initially searched on Ancestry (which is free at their office) and came up with a possible match. They gave me the corresponding birth entry and a link to the relevant Registry Office (Trafford - for them to check the birth date). I then e-mailed Trafford and after checking their indexes, were able to tell me that the date of birth was different. Again, they were more than helpful and made another suggestion. I learned this week that Central Library is ear marked for closure, needing major repairs! It will be closed for several years!!!! So any of my overseas friends who want to search there -- check first! I can't see it closing for a couple of years yet though - it takes ages for this type of thing to get off the ground. Manchester Town Hall is also to have major work. Pat W ----- Original Message ----- From: The Quineys To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] John ATKIN birth record in Salford I've just used the link to GMCRO and it says "Please note that we do not have certificates of any kind. These are obtainable from the local register offices"Can I ask, how can they search for a birth and check that the parents are correct? I have a father and son, both called Samuel, but <snip>

Hi Anne, during the 1841 census for Manchester John ATKIN was recorded as 7 months old. All my best Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne C" <annecwinfield@ntlworld.com> To: "Manchester List" <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 5:49 AM > Have you considered the possibility that he could have been born the year > before? I have an ancestor whose birth was registered in 1882 but, on > receiving the certificate, it turned out that he was actually born the > year before which makes it awkward for family researchers. <snip>

Dear Maria, These are the births I found but I suspect that you might already have them. Elijah Olive District Manchester Vol 8d Page 344 Jan Quarter 1872 Emily Olive Disrtict Manchester Vol 8d Page 346 Dec Quarter 1873 George Olive District Prestwich Vol 8d Page 382 Dec Quarter 1875 Francis Olive District Prestwich Vol 8d Page 373 June Quarter 1879 By the way Eliza's mother's name is Lydia and the marriage  and births are on the LDS site www.familysearch.org You will see that Eliza was born Derbyshire not Wiltshire Iwould not be able to find John Henry's children on the census because they were born after 1871 and left for Australia before 1881 Hope this helps Jean

Hi Mike, On 3 Jul 2008, at 08:04, eng-manchester-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > I hate to bring bad news but it's entirely possible that this birth > was > never registered. Many births at this early date (less than 3 years > after > the start of civil registration) missed being registered. It was not > mandatory and I'm sure a few slipped through because their parents > didn't > even know they were supposed to do it. I think this is true from my experience, and it is a very reasonable guess. Further I think one can easily imagine there may have been controversy about it, with many people objecting to it on grounds perhaps reminiscent of current arguments about giving data to the government. Besides which I expect it would have doubled the expense - parents will still have seen christening as important and on top of that they now had to pay for civil registration. Wasn't it mandatory at first? Sally in Yorkshire

Hi Jean Many thanks for this - its my lot !!!!!!!!! Yahoo This gives me a name for another child who I did not know as Charles did not come to Australia - may have died prior to the family leaving or he went ???????. Now 2 more females to find that were listed on Isaac & Jane's death certificates and did not come to Australia. Would probably explain the big age gap between Charles & Ann. MariaNSW, Aus > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:41:35 +0000> From: jean.thatcher@btinternet.com> To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] OLIVE, DRURY, ROBINSON, TIPPING from Manchester> > Hi Maria> Found this on the 1841 census , the nearest that I could find. The ages on the 1841 census could be rounded up or down 5 years.> 1841 Monmouth Street, > Isaac Robinson/age 30/mason> Jane/age 30> Charles/age 15> Ann/age 6> John/age 4months> Civil Parish Manchester> Hundred Salford> County Lancashire> Registration District Chorlton> Ardwick> Jean> > > > > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~> > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list.> Other people can learn from them!> > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~> > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message> > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~> > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list.> Other people can learn from them!> > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~> > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT

I've just used the link to GMCRO and it says "Please note that we do not have certificates of any kind. These are obtainable from the local register offices" Can I ask, how can they search for a birth and check that the parents are correct? I have a father and son, both called Samuel, but cannot find the birth of either. We know that they exist as we have their respective marriage certs and photos of them! I would be most interested in asking the GMCRO for help but just wondered how they could do it if they don't hold the certificates. Heather patricia williams wrote: > Mike, > Another thought!! > > When I couldn't find my Grandfather's birth registration, I e-mailed: > > http://www.gmcro.co.uk/ > > and they were a great help --- all free! > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Morris > To: AAA Send mail Manchester > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:57 PM > Subject: [ENG-MAN] John ATKIN birth record in Salford > > Dear list members, is there a kind soul who can look up a birth record for > me............. please ? > > I paid for what I thought was John Atkin's birth certificate. The British > office sent me the wrong document. Its the wrong parents and the wrong date. > I have tried three times to correct them but they wont admit they have made > a mistake. > >

I have been planning a visit to Central Library and the Town Hall during my visit to Manchester from August 7-10. Does anyone know if both locations will be open during that period? Also, Lynne, are there any FH Events occurring on those dates in Lancashire? Noel Luke Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of patricia williams Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 2:25 AM To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-MAN] GMCRO and Central Library The Records Office have original or/and copies of all sorts of information. When I asked for their help via e-mail, they initially searched on Ancestry (which is free at their office) and came up with a possible match. They gave me the corresponding birth entry and a link to the relevant Registry Office (Trafford - for them to check the birth date). I then e-mailed Trafford and after checking their indexes, were able to tell me that the date of birth was different. Again, they were more than helpful and made another suggestion. I learned this week that Central Library is ear marked for closure, needing major repairs! It will be closed for several years!!!! So any of my overseas friends who want to search there -- check first! I can't see it closing for a couple of years yet though - it takes ages for this type of thing to get off the ground. Manchester Town Hall is also to have major work. Pat W ----- Original Message ----- From: The Quineys To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] John ATKIN birth record in Salford I've just used the link to GMCRO and it says "Please note that we do not have certificates of any kind. These are obtainable from the local register offices"Can I ask, how can they search for a birth and check that the parents are correct? I have a father and son, both called Samuel, but <snip> ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mike, Another thought!! When I couldn't find my Grandfather's birth registration, I e-mailed: http://www.gmcro.co.uk/ and they were a great help --- all free! ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Morris To: AAA Send mail Manchester Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] John ATKIN birth record in Salford Dear list members, is there a kind soul who can look up a birth record for me............. please ? I paid for what I thought was John Atkin's birth certificate. The British office sent me the wrong document. Its the wrong parents and the wrong date. I have tried three times to correct them but they wont admit they have made a mistake.

Hi Mike I can't believe we can get where you did not.....BUT....I have a few days of Ancestry left. If you also have access, then I won't be able to give you any extra info. Do you have access at the mo? Pat W ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Morris To: AAA Send mail Manchester Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:57 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] John ATKIN birth record in Salford Dear list members, is there a kind soul who can look up a birth record for me............. please ? I paid for what I thought was John Atkin's birth certificate. The British office sent me the wrong document. Its the wrong parents and the wrong date. I have tried three times to correct them but they wont admit they have made a mistake. I wondered if by chance some kind soul might be able to locate the correct birth record/ birth certificate? <snip>

Dear Mike: I hate to bring bad news but it's entirely possible that this birth was never registered. Many births at this early date (less than 3 years after the start of civil registration) missed being registered. It was not mandatory and I'm sure a few slipped through because their parents didn't even know they were supposed to do it. Patricia's advice is good though. I've found that the Manchester Registrar's Office is very helpful. They will look things up and let you know if the cert you want actually exists - before you pay for it. Have a go - you might still be lucky. Best wishes, Irene PS The local BMD's are showing an 1840 birth for John Aitken in Hulme - any good?