Hi Rob I did not find any entries for the Shepherd family either as Shoemakers or Joiners on the 1846 Slaters directory the 1834 Pigot Directory the 1828/9 Pigot Directory as listed in Manchester. Gilly ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROB SHEPHERD" <robshepherd1974@googlemail.com> To: "eng-manchester-l" <ENG-MANCHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Manchester Trade Directories before 1840 - lookup needed > Other than the Historical Directories website does anyone have access to > any > Manchester Trade Directories before 1840? > > I'm looking for George Shepherd, shoemaker, likely living in Hulme > together > with his sons, William Shepherd and James Shepherd who were joiners in > Hulme > Any help much appreciated > > Thanks > > Rob > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sally Thanks for your notes of caution :-) It reminded me of what happened to a very good friend of ours. When he bought a house, it was number 49. However, the road was completely renumbered within a few years and his house was changed to number 15 (the next door neighbour gave him the 5 and the 1 which he then inverted and used for 15). This all took place 10-15 years ago and he had a horrendous time explaining to the mortgage company that he *hadn't* moved house, it had just changed its number. I can see that in years to come, anyone looking into his history might think that he had moved house within the same road when he hadn't. I will look more carefully at house numbers on censuses and maybe note the neighbours, especially if the road appears to be the same but with a different number. Heather Sally Haden wrote: > Hi folks, > How helpful to hear those rules of thumb from postmen and other > experiences about city house numbering in Manchester. I have learned > from that. > > However can I just add a note of caution from my experience of > research in Birmingham if I may? > > After long research in Birmingham, it's hard to trust simple house > numbering systems ever again! > > <snip> > > Manchester may have a slightly different history to Birmingham, but I > would be surprised if there were no similar instances. > > Sally > in Yorkshire

Hi folks, How helpful to hear those rules of thumb from postmen and other experiences about city house numbering in Manchester. I have learned from that. However can I just add a note of caution from my experience of research in Birmingham if I may? In Birmingham, house numbers changed constantly as the city grew. Depending on the period, houses could be numbered 1,2,3, etc all down one side and then all the way up the other side back up to the top. Admittedly this was typically in smaller streets than the Manchester example of Chester Road, but I learned to be very careful and not make any assumptions. Another trick that the authorities had up their sleeves was to set up the numbering (either alternate as we tend to now, or all the way down one way then back up the other), say in 1861, then squeeze loads of little houses into spaces between developments which were called courts. Or a factory or wokshop would be built in a space, or demolished. So you get to the 1871 census and the houses would be completely renumbered. This could happen two or three times in the life of a Victorian Birmingham city street. Then along comes either complete redevelopment in modern times, or else some refurbishment in modern times, and whoops the numbers are changed again as bits and pieces are demolished or roads altered. After long research in Birmingham, it's hard to trust simple house numbering systems ever again! I learned 1. to be aware of the date of my address vs the date of the map and check a map as close as I could to the date of the address. 2. to use the directories, as listers have illustrated. Again, as close to the date of your address as possible. The directories are a huge help. 3. to roam around the censuses from page to page, working out where the house was by finding a neighbouring pub or the next street that the enumerator went down. etc. 4. to not mind giving up sometimes! Manchester may have a slightly different history to Birmingham, but I would be surprised if there were no similar instances. Sally in Yorkshire

Apologies for the multiple posting, but at some time I must have answered a query to someone who was searching for Mary Ann HOLDEN and James Henry ELLISON. I don't know which list this was on - I have tried searching the archives with no success. I would like to get in contact with this person. The reason is that a (79 year old) great granddaughter of the above has mistakenly contacted me with information on the family and I can only think that she came across a reply that I might have made to someone. Lorraine

I found a William Sheppard listed on the back of my 1849 Hulme map. He was a Joiner at 72 Crown street. Crown street ran south from Chester road. Bradshaw street was two streets to the west of Crown. Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROB SHEPHERD" <robshepherd1974@googlemail.com> To: "eng-manchester-l" <ENG-MANCHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:25 AM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Manchester Trade Directories before 1840 - lookup needed > Other than the Historical Directories website does anyone have access to > any > Manchester Trade Directories before 1840? > > I'm looking for George Shepherd, shoemaker, likely living in Hulme > together > with his sons, William Shepherd and James Shepherd who were joiners in > Hulme > Any help much appreciated > > Thanks > > Rob > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anybody know if there are papers dealing with Bankruptcy ? I am looking for mention of a James WOOD Bankrupt between 1840's - 1879 probably in the Manchester area Thank you Sandra Aus

Hi Rob, Sending offlist parts of my Hulme St George's 1849 OS Map. Hope you can piece them together, not sure that all the streets are on, my eyes are not too good. Mike Morris usually does a good job if he has seen your request. Regards Mavis ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROB SHEPHERD" <robshepherd1974@googlemail.com> To: "eng-manchester-l" <ENG-MANCHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 2:47 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Streets in Hulme > Can anyone tell me where the following streets were in Hulme (and maybe > have > a map of the area to share) > > Southam Street > Crown Street > Bradshaw Street > Chruch Street, Hyde Road > Melbourne Street > Christ Church Square > > Thanks > > Rob > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Other than the Historical Directories website does anyone have access to any Manchester Trade Directories before 1840? I'm looking for George Shepherd, shoemaker, likely living in Hulme together with his sons, William Shepherd and James Shepherd who were joiners in Hulme Any help much appreciated Thanks Rob

G'day Madalyn, I think I might have to be happy with what I have found for the time being. I was a little surprised to find the entry for gypsies in 1841. The authorities didn't want to know them and the gypsies didn't want to be known :-) They often changed their names to suit the situation they might find themselves in. I had a good look around on Google Earth and see that Mickleover and Littleover are quite close to Darley Dale and Breadsall. These are places where I think my Boswell's were starting to live a more static life. Thanks for your help Madalyn, I wont give up. All the best , Terry Craven ----- Original Message ----- From: "howandmad.t21@btinternet.com" <howandmad@talk21.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 1:18 AM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Help with 1841 census entry? BOSWELL > Hi Terry, > > You could try following: > > Go to 1841 census search page and enter:- > Residence: Derbyshire > Page# : 42 > Click Search > This will give you a list of people who are enumerated on pages 42 in > different parts of Derbyshire (204 persons total!). > You'll need to check the Residence column to find the nearest place to > Michleover, Shardlow, possibly a neighbouring > Parish. > > It might help to sub. to the Derbyshire List - someone with local > knowledge > may have a Parish Boundary Map. >

Can anyone tell me where the following streets were in Hulme (and maybe have a map of the area to share) Southam Street Crown Street Bradshaw Street Chruch Street, Hyde Road Melbourne Street Christ Church Square Thanks Rob

Hi Jackie, Re : <Could you please tell me what the ALPHA directory is, what dates they go up to and how I get to view. I've never heard of it? Kindest regards Jackie (Somerset UK)> The 1913 Manchester directory was divided into 4 separate cd's unlike most which were all on one.These cd's were : ALPHA - an alphabetical list of residents Suburban ALPHA - same as above but those outside the Manchester boundary TRADE STREET Unfortunately,as I said before,my Street Cd is no longer with us !! See the following for more info : http://www.genealogysupplies.com/ss/about.php Cheers Kath

Hi Rob, I've got a copy of Bancks's 1800 Diectory of Manchester & Salford. Here's the SHEPHERD listings. If any of them are yours, I can scan you a copy of the page. Shepherd, Alexander, hirer of carrying chairs, under 59 Fountain-street Shepherd, Samuel, hat manufacturer, 6 Gravel-lane, Salford Shepherd John, calenderer, 11 Booth-street, Salford Shepherd John, print glazer, 7 Dale-street, Salford Shepherd Edward, tailor, Little John-street There's also these: Sheppard John, flour dealer, 84 Alport-street Sheppeard John, fustian manufacturer, house, 5 Tassel-street Sheppeard William, victualler, Pack Horse, 3 Knot-mill Yvonne in Plymouth -----Original Message----- From: ROB SHEPHERD <robshepherd1974@googlemail.com> To: eng-manchester-l <ENG-MANCHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:25 Subject: [ENG-MAN] Manchester Trade Directories before 1840 - lookup needed Other than the Historical Directories website does anyone have access to any Manchester Trade Directories before 1840? I'm looking for George Shepherd, shoemaker, likely living in Hulme together with his sons, William Shepherd and James Shepherd who were joiners in Hulme Any help much appreciated Thanks Rob ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.

Hi Sandra Have you tried the London Gazette (http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/home.aspx?geotype=London)? Despite it's apparent location, it would list all brankruptcies across the country. I have found details of my husband's acestors business liquidation and they were based in Colne, Lancashire. There are sister Gazettes for Belfast and Edinburgh. As James Wood is a fairly common name, you may have to enter the type of business and limiting dates. Have you found him in any business directories? This might help you to pin point the timescale more accurately and possibly an area of Manchester. If you haven't already done so, I would try http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/ I choose location first, then order the results by decade, then open each directory in turn and enter a name, location or business type. Hope this helps, if not, come back to the list and maybe someone else can offer another avenue to explore. Heather Sandra Geddes 1 wrote: > Does anybody know if there are papers dealing with Bankruptcy ? I am looking for mention of a James WOOD Bankrupt between 1840's - 1879 probably in the Manchester area > Thank you > Sandra Aus >

Hi Terry In your last mail I noticed you mention Darley Dale, Derbyshire. I can't do it this morning but I could check later (say this evening or tomorrow) my cd of Darley Dale parish registers, for your BOSWELL families if that would help. Let me know if you'd like me to do that. Val terry wrote: > I had a good look around on Google Earth and see that Mickleover and > Littleover are quite close to Darley Dale and Breadsall. These are places > where I think my Boswell's were starting to live a more static life. > > > Terry Craven > > > >

Thanks Jackie, That looks interesting and I've saved it to my "favourites" for the next rainy day.....tomorrow?? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: Jackie To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:17 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] The National Archives | Access to Archives ChorltononMedlock http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=127-m352&cid=-1

Hi List, I would like some help, if possible Is anyone related to the PENSON, WILLIS, JOHNSON family below. The JOHNSON family would be off great interest to me! I have a William PENSON bapt. 3rd April, 1831, Lilleshall, Shropshire. "2 x gt. grandfather" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agnes WILLIS married William PENSON in 1855 at Manchester Cathedral Ann PENSON was born in 1855. She is my 1 x great grandmother. Ellen PENSON was born in 1857. (Her sister). Maybe someone has her in their files? I do not know if she married or not. They had a step sister Elizabeth WILLIS, it would be so interesting to know what happened to her. She was bapt. 1852, 14th Aug. born SALFORD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agnes PENSON married Robert JOHNSON Sept. 13th 1868. I Have not found out when "William PENSON" died yet. I Have Not been able to find the DEATH of WILLIAM PENSON" and I think I have gone through every death off William PENSON on any site I can find. I really want to find his death. MARRIAGE: 2nd Marriage of Agnes WILLIS aged 39 to Robert JOHNSON aged 51 took place at 4th Sept. 1868 at St. Simon, Salford Parish Church. Both had deceased partners. MARRIAGE: Witnesses were Henry WILLIS (possible brother or relative of Agnes born in Scotland 1846,which would make him about 22) & Charlotte DARLING/DARLING who was the only one who did not sign with an X. MARRIAGE: Father of groom was Thomas JOHNSON. Father of Agnes was John WILLIS. No indication if fathers were deceased. (But I do know now that John (George) Willis, a block printer was deceased). MARRIAGE: Have written copy of cert. 265. All the PENSON family were living at 41 Booster Street, Salford in 1861, and in 1871 Agnes the mother has remarried and is living in 79 Hough Lane. The last name of the 15 year old daughter looks as if it could have been Annie age 15 but I am not sure as she is down as daughter under JOHNSON, but the numerator at the time could have gotten this wrong as in the 1861 census for Robert JOHNSON with his first wife and more children the last child was 5 and named Joseph. And this fits in with the 1871 census, he is 15 and his brother George is 18 (George was a witness at Ann Penson's marriage in 1874). Elizabeth Willis is not there, but there is a boarder named William J. Willis so he may be a brother or relative off Agnes.. Have copy of this census. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William PENSON moved to Macclesfield, Cheshire (13 Pinfold Street, which is still standing) sometime between 1831 & 1841 as he is on the 1841 aged 10 census and on the 1851 census aged 20, working as a baker. 1861 Census living at Brooster Street, Salford, Lancashire, England In 1861 census William is living with wife Agnes 3 x g.grandmother (nee WILLIS, whom he married 8th April 1855). Stepdaughter Elizabeth WILLIS aged 7 Daughter Ann PENSON aged 5 (2x g.grandmother) Daughter Ellen PENSON aged 3 In 1851 census, he is a bread maker in Pinfold Street, Macclesfield, Cheshire, and all the family are there. In 1841, he is aged 10. Pinfold Street. His father James Penson (occ. mason) is missing, also his sisters Elizabeth, Ann and brother Thomas are missing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also have photocopy of marriage certificate from Manchester Cathedral. Year: 1855 Registration District: Manchester Marriage Solemnized at: The Cath & Parish Church In the Parish of: Manchester in the County of Lancaster Date: April 8th 1855 Names: William Penson & Agnes Willis Age: 24 & 25 Condition Bachelor Spinster His Occupation: Soda Water Manufacturer Residence: Lamb Lane Salford (for both bride & groom). Father of Groom: James Penson His Occupation: Mason Father of the bride:- John WILLIS His Occupation:- Block Printer According to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after Banns Witness: Joshua Smith & Sarah Jane Willis Witnesses of his marriage are Joshua SMITH & Sarah Jane WILLIS (appears to be sister of Agnes?) All except William (who signs his in his own handwriting) sign with an X. Would appreciate any answers off anyone who has any knowledge off the above people. Best regards Gisela

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=127-m352&cid=-1 I came across all this info by accident, someone researching the parishes may find the info vey useful. Regards Jackie

Hi Jackie, From the 1913 Manchester ALPHA directory : TOWAY,David,householder,126 Slater st,Oldham rd TOWHEY,Frederick,householder,73 Old Elm st,Ardwick I'm sorry I can't tell you who was at 615 Oldham rd in 1913 as the STREET cd has "died" From the 1929 Manchester directory : TOWEY,Jn.,greengrocer,19 Taunton st,Ancoats TOWEY,Patrick,police constable,108 Errwood st,Levenshulme Hope this helps a bit !! Cheers Kath

Hi Kathy, This is fabulous, definitely my Frederick, now need to try to remember where Old Elm Street was, I do remember the name. Many, many thanks to you. Could you please tell me what the ALPHA directory is, what dates they go up to and how I get to view. I've never heard of it? Kindest regards Jackie (Somerset UK) -------Original Message------- From: kathleen Torrisi Date: 12/07/2008 20:35:50 To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com; jackie005@soms.fsnet.co.uk Subject: re [ENG-MAN] Towhey Oldham Road Manchester 1911 Hi Jackie, From the 1913 Manchester ALPHA directory : TOWAY,David,householder,126 Slater st,Oldham rd TOWHEY,Frederick,householder,73 Old Elm st,Ardwick I'm sorry I can't tell you who was at 615 Oldham rd in 1913 as the STREET cd has "died" From the 1929 Manchester directory : TOWEY,Jn.,greengrocer,19 Taunton st,Ancoats TOWEY,Patrick,police constable,108 Errwood st,Levenshulme Hope this helps a bit !! Cheers Kath

Can anyone tell me what a "pattern looker" did? Was it to do with iron casting and forging? Thanks Rob