It was me Mike! Pleased to accept! Thanks, Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Morris To: AAA Send mail Manchester Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 8:39 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Ruby street in Manchester While purusing my maps for street names I saw the Ruby street that was asked about a few days ago and wondered if you had noticed about three streets to the south running south from Ruby street was another Ruby street in 1894. I have saved this for the person who might be interested. Cheers Mike Morris Toronto

Thank you Sally, I am about to add that information onto the maps I have printed out. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: Sally Haden To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Some Hulme streets, north side of Chester Road 2. Here's how the enumerator walked the district, (I started on page 1 and finished on page 35 of the total of 49 pages) 196-262 Chester Road 1-7 Cornbrook Road, including "Manchester Orphanage" or "Birch's Orphanage" 8-20 Cornbrook Road Cornbook, four wealthy households 13-17 Cornbrrok Place 42-2 and 11-1 Dover Street 1-19 and 2-18 Runcorn Street 2-28 and 11-27 Westminster Street 2-32 Trentham Street plus 2 unnumbered 101-.... Ellesmere Street etc etc. (There are anther 14 pages in the District, but sorry, I stopped there) Perhaps this list may help someone sometime. Sally in Yorkshire

Was Manchester and the Hulme area in particular well known for shoemaking in the early 1800s? Would a maker of clogs be classed as a shoemaker also, or a clogger? In otherwords would a shoemaker only make shoes and boots and not clogs? Are there any online (or other) resources giving more the history of shoemaking in Manchester anywhere? Many thanks Rob

Thanks very much to everyone who replied regarding locating certain Hulme Streets and a check in the local trade directories Another query if I may - where was Hart Street in Hulme (around 1849) I'm also trying to find Church Street, Hyde Road, Hulme (around 1865) Any help much appreciated. Thanks Rob

Hi Mike or anyone, I have been searching for Manchester's glassworks on maps and have found some good stuff thanks to Mike and others here. Now I want to see the site which J.J.&T. Derbyshire (flint glass manufacturers) used in the 1870s in Trentham Street. I have the Godfrey map for Hulme 1894 which shows the possible site of the glassworks, as "Cornbrook Brewery"? But by 1893 Derbyshire's had closed and I am not surprised that the glassworks is not showing. Does anyone have a map which does show "Derbyshire" glassworks in Trentham Street? It might be named something like "Bridgewater Flint Glass Works". It should appear in the 1870s, perhaps in the 1880s. Trentham Street is on the north side of Chester Road, actually on Ellesmere Street where it joins Chester Road. Mike, I think you mentioned it to me in one email but I couldn't see it on the corresponding map, so perhaps it was just a little off the portion you sent me? Thanks so much. Sally in Yorkshire

Hi folks, Thanks to Heather and Geoff for these... > My Dad was a temporary postman in his youth (quite along time ago > now!) > but he has always believed that house numbering started at the end of > the road closest to the town/city centre. Working on this basis, I > would think that #405 was quite a way out of town. > The numbers run out from the city, this is the normal convention, > with the > even numbers on the right. I have done a little surfing from page to page of the 1871 census in District 41 within Hulme - this district covers part of Hulme on the north side of Chester Road. I was looking to find mention of the Derbyshire glass works in Trentham Street actually, but it isn't there no doubt because the census was only for houses. Anyway, I thought you would like to know some of the findings... 1. Indeed, the numbering of Chester Road appears to follow the conventional pattern. The enumerator began at 196 Chester Road and continued to 262 Chester Road without a single odd number. The District was all for the north side of Chester Road, so that makes it even numbers on the right moving away from the city centre. The odd number houses will be on another District of Hulme. 2. Here's how the enumerator walked the district, (I started on page 1 and finished on page 35 of the total of 49 pages) 196-262 Chester Road 1-7 Cornbrook Road, including "Manchester Orphanage" or "Birch's Orphanage" 8-20 Cornbrook Road Cornbook, four wealthy households 13-17 Cornbrrok Place 42-2 and 11-1 Dover Street 1-19 and 2-18 Runcorn Street 2-28 and 11-27 Westminster Street 2-32 Trentham Street plus 2 unnumbered 101-.... Ellesmere Street etc etc. (There are anther 14 pages in the District, but sorry, I stopped there) Perhaps this list may help someone sometime. Sally in Yorkshire

Are any researchers able to identify an Army garrison cap for me? I'm trying to obtain my fathers WW11 Army records but as I've never been able to obtain his birth cert and as I've no idea of the regiment he was with or his service number, the Army Records Office cannot find him. They have been extremely helpful and have looked through their database with no luck...but it's believed Dad lied about his age to enlist. I have a portrait photo of my father in Army Uniform but unfortunately there's not any badges on his uniform. His cap appears very unusual and might identify his unit. As he was living in Manchester, I'm hoping it may have been a regiment attached to Manchester. Regards Jackie jackie005@btclick.com

Hurst is about a mile to the north east of Ashton Under Lyne. Radcliffe is the other side of the city to the east of Bolton near to Bury. I will check out the street names later. Going out for a coffee,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hey!! a guy has to relax sometimes :)) Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <andrew-vanda@tiscali.co.uk> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:09 PM > I wish I could narrow it down. I have the eldest brother in 1861 > living in Radcliffe who is married and a possible unmarried sister > living a few streets away working as a servant but no other family > members in Radcliffe. > > This is the family in 1841 > > 1841 Census - Merrington, Durham > William Horrocks - 25 - Quarryman - born in county - no > Jane Horrocks - 20 - born in county - no > John Horrocks - 1 - born in county - yes > > They had 4 other children, George Hunter Horrocks, Sarah Horrocks, > Maria Horrocks & James Horrocks > > John appears in 1861 ... > > 1861 Census - Blackburn Street, Radcliffe, Lancs > John Horrocks - Head - M - 22 - Shoemaker - Yorkshire > Rachel Horrocks - Wife - M - 29 - Shoemakers wife - Radcliffe, Lancs > > & his sister (possibly) is not far away > > 1861 Census - Water Lane, Radcliffe, Lancashire > Living with the Bowker family > Sarah Horrocks - Serv - Um - 17 - House Servant - Durham, Sunderland > > The next time I have the family is when George get's married ... > St John's, Hurst, Ashton-under-Lyne - July 24th 1864 - George Hunter > Horrocks - 23 - Bachelor - Collier - Hurst - William Horrocks - > Labourer & Sarah Smith - 21 - Spinster - Ashton - James Smith - Joiner. > > I have them in 1871 ... > > 1871 Census - North Road, Droylesdon > George Horrocks - Head - M - 29 - Coal Miner - York, York > Sarah M. Horrocks - Wife - M - 26 - Halifax, York > Jane Horrocks - Daur - 3 - Scholar - Clayton, Lancashire > Hannah M. Horrocks - Daur - 1 Clayton, Lancashire > Maria Horrocks - Sister – 22 - Cotton Winder - Clayton, Lancashire > > The family seem to be in the Clayton area on everything else I have > from 1865 onwards. It would make sense to look in the Hurst area as well > but I can't find > that either in 1861. <snip>

I was told the difference between a Shoemaker and a Cobbler was that a Shoemaker actually made the shoes or more often boots. These were usually made from fine leather and these would be predominantly for the 'higher' classes. Whereas, a Cobbler would repair shoes, and maybe make shoes from a lower class of leather. Hope that helps. Viv

While purusing my maps for street names I saw the Ruby street that was asked about a few days ago and wondered if you had noticed about three streets to the south running south from Ruby street was another Ruby street in 1894. I have saved this for the person who might be interested. Cheers Mike Morris Toronto Canada

I have sent you a map section for four of these streets. But you have to realise when asking about street names in Manchester, that these names could be duplicated in numerous suburbs. Manchester consists of many suburbs. Regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROB SHEPHERD" <robshepherd1974@googlemail.com> To: "eng-manchester-l" <ENG-MANCHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:47 AM > Can anyone tell me where the following streets were in Hulme (and maybe > have > a map of the area to share) > > Southam Street > Crown Street > Bradshaw Street > Chruch Street, Hyde Road > Melbourne Street > Christ Church Square <snip>

Thanks Mike, I'll try those 2 areas, thank you so much for helping ~ best wishes Vanda >----Original Message---- >From: morrisind@rogers.com >Date: 14/07/2008 15:05 >To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> >Subj: [ENG-MAN] - Clayton > >Clayton and Ashton New road is in Manchester, just above Openshaw and east >of Bradford. > >It looks like you having been looking in the wrong area > >Regards >Mike Morris >Toronto Canada >----- Original Message ----- >From: <andrew-vanda@tiscali.co.uk> >To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:24 AM >Subject: [ENG-MAN] 1861 Census - Clayton > > >> Hello, >> >> I have been "walking" around the 1861 census looking for my Horrocks >> family. >> William, Jane, George H, Maria & James HORROCKS >> >> I have been unable to find them in the index. >> >> The area where I know they have been living is Ashton New Road, >> Clayton. Could SKS tell me where I would find it in 1861 <snip> > > > > >~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > >Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. >Other people can learn from them! > >~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > __________________________________________________________ Free games for a wet weekend - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play __________________________________________________________

Hello, I have been "walking" around the 1861 census looking for my Horrocks family. William, Jane, George H, Maria & James HORROCKS I have been unable to find them in the index. The area where I know they have been living is Ashton New Road, Clayton. Could SKS tell me where I would find it in 1861 please? On the index for enumeration areas it has 3 x Clayton's ~ Clayton-le-Moores, Clayton-le-Dale & Clayton-le-Woods. Thank you ~ Vanda __________________________________________________________ Free games for a wet weekend - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/play __________________________________________________________

Jackie wrote: >Are any researchers able to identify an Army garrison cap for me? > Hi Jackie You could post a message on the Lancashire message board <http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/mb.ashx?> and attach a photo to the post. Then we could all have a look at it for you. Lynne

Perhaps I should have mentioned that Ashton new Road runs through Clayton. Meaning you only have to look into one area, that being Clayton. Do you have any other clues to narrow this down? All my best Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <andrew-vanda@tiscali.co.uk> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 10:13 AM > I'll try those 2 areas, thank you so much for helping <snip>

The Lancashire Fusiliers had an unusual item as part of their cap badge it was a yellow coloured plume. The Manchester's looked like a large sharp clover leaf. It was known as Fleur-de-Lys amd made in a plain brass metal.. Please send me the picture so I can see for myself. Regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie" <jackie005@soms.fsnet.co.uk> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 11:25 AM > Are any researchers able to identify an Army garrison cap for me? > I'm trying to obtain my fathers WW11 Army records but as I've never been > able to obtain his birth cert and as I've no idea of the regiment he was > with or his service number, the Army Records Office cannot find him. > I > have a portrait photo of my father in Army Uniform but unfortunately > there's not any badges on his uniform. His cap appears very unusual and > might identify his unit. As he was living in Manchester, I'm hoping it may have been a regiment attached to Manchester. <snip>

Clayton and Ashton New road is in Manchester, just above Openshaw and east of Bradford. It looks like you having been looking in the wrong area Regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: <andrew-vanda@tiscali.co.uk> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 9:24 AM Subject: [ENG-MAN] 1861 Census - Clayton > Hello, > > I have been "walking" around the 1861 census looking for my Horrocks > family. > William, Jane, George H, Maria & James HORROCKS > > I have been unable to find them in the index. > > The area where I know they have been living is Ashton New Road, > Clayton. Could SKS tell me where I would find it in 1861 <snip>

This may be of help to some reseachesrs, sadly not me. Regards Jackie http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=127-m3&cid=-1

http://www.trafford.gov.uk/cme/live/welcome.asp?id=3115

Hi List, Thanks for any help, I have previously, years ago sent similar e.mails concerning these families, but now there maybe more people on List with new information? Regards Gisela ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would like some help, if possible Is anyone related to the PENSON, WILLIS, JOHNSON family below. The JOHNSON family would be off great interest to me! I have a William PENSON bapt. 3rd April, 1831, Lilleshall, Shropshire. "2 x gt. grandfather" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agnes WILLIS married William PENSON in 1855 at Manchester Cathedral Ann PENSON was born in 1855. She is my 1 x great grandmother. Ellen PENSON was born in 1857. (Her sister). Maybe someone has her in their files? I do not know if she married or not. She was living in Peru Street, Salford in 1871 as a servant. They had a step sister Elizabeth WILLIS, it would be so interesting to know what happened to her. She was bapt. 1852, 14th Aug. born SALFORD. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Agnes PENSON married Robert JOHNSON Sept. 13th 1868. I Have not found out when "William PENSON" died yet. I Have Not been able to find the DEATH of WILLIAM PENSON" and I think I have gone through every death off William PENSON on any site I can find. I really want to find his death. MARRIAGE: 2nd Marriage of Agnes WILLIS aged 39 to Robert JOHNSON aged 51 took place at 4th Sept. 1868 at St. Simon, Salford Parish Church. Both had deceased partners. MARRIAGE: Witnesses were Henry WILLIS (possible brother or relative of Agnes born in Scotland 1846,which would make him about 22) & Charlotte DARLING/DARLING who was the only one who did not sign with an X. MARRIAGE: Father of groom was Thomas JOHNSON. Father of Agnes was John WILLIS. No indication if fathers were deceased. (But I do know now that John (George) Willis, a block printer was deceased). MARRIAGE: Have written copy of cert. 265. All the PENSON family were living at 41 Booster Street, Salford in 1861, and in 1871 Agnes the mother has remarried and is living in 79 Hough Lane. The last name of the 15 year old daughter looks as if it could have been Annie age 15 but I am not sure as she is down as daughter under JOHNSON, but the numerator at the time could have gotten this wrong as in the 1861 census for Robert JOHNSON with his first wife and more children the last child was 5 and named Joseph. And this fits in with the 1871 census, he is 15 and his brother George is 18 (George was a witness at Ann Penson's marriage in 1874). Elizabeth Willis is not there, but there is a boarder named William J. Willis so he may be a brother or relative off Agnes.. Have copy of this census. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William PENSON moved to Macclesfield, Cheshire (13 Pinfold Street, which is still standing) sometime between 1831 & 1841 as he is on the 1841 aged 10 census and on the 1851 census aged 20, working as a baker. 1861 Census living at Booster Street, Salford, Lancashire, England In 1861 census William is living with wife Agnes 3 x g.grandmother (nee WILLIS, whom he married 8th April 1855). Stepdaughter Elizabeth WILLIS aged 7 Daughter Ann PENSON aged 5 (2x g.grandmother) Daughter Ellen PENSON aged 3 In 1851 census, he is a bread maker in Pinfold Street, Macclesfield, Cheshire, and all the family are there. In 1841, he is aged 10. Pinfold Street. His father James Penson (occ. mason) is missing, also his sisters Elizabeth, Ann and brother Thomas are missing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also have photocopy of marriage certificate from Manchester Cathedral. Year: 1855 Registration District: Manchester Marriage Solemnized at: The Cath & Parish Church In the Parish of: Manchester in the County of Lancaster Date: April 8th 1855 Names: William Penson & Agnes Willis Age: 24 & 25 Condition Bachelor Spinster His Occupation: Soda Water Manufacturer Residence: Lamb Lane Salford (for both bride & groom). Father of Groom: James Penson His Occupation: Mason Father of the bride:- John WILLIS His Occupation:- Block Printer According to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after Banns Witness: Joshua Smith & Sarah Jane Willis Witnesses of his marriage are Joshua SMITH & Sarah Jane WILLIS (appears to be sister of Agnes?) All except William (who signs his in his own handwriting) sign with an X. Would appreciate any answers off anyone who has any knowledge off the above people. Best regards Gisela