"in Oldham Street Wesleyan Chapel" [who have no attached burial ground] "in Manchester. ... strongly committed Methodists":- "Manchester Archives and Local Studies {MALS} website has Methodist records for chapels in the Manchester and Stockport Methodist District. The majority of these registers are on microfilm, although some are only available in the Archives section. " http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/Infobase/graveyards.htm leads to a list of Manchester graveyards and the periods they cover. 1) Manchester City Centre- Central Hall, Oldham Street (formerly Oldham Street Wesleyan) had no attached graveyard, and its surviving registers are for baptisms and marriages. cf. Devon government website "Burial registers are rare because Methodists did not usually have their own burial grounds." When a general cemetery was opened, various denominations could have burials there. Others may know what happened in the interim. 2) Oldham Road [further out and separate from 'Oldham St.' in the city] Wesleyan / Methodist church registers [as listed on 'MALS' website] have no burial registers 1836 and earlier 3) Great Bridgewater St. Wesleyan Chapel [south of Oldham St.] had a burial ground: Microfilm of original records at the Public Record Office, London. .. [include] burials, 1800-1854. RG-4 series nos. 885, 975, 2695, 2436, 2437, 2172, 2696. [A local LDS FH library, for a fee, could arrange to get a copy in for you to view.] 4) '1819-1837 non-parochial records [including burials] of 4 chapels in Manchester' includes 2 Wesleyan / Methodist ones: St. Peter Street Connexion Methodist Chapel, and Droylesden Wesleyan Chapel - although I do not know if either are near Oldham St. Wesleyan Chapel. [A local LDS FH library, for a fee, could arrange to get a copy in for you to view.] N.B. LDS' 'library catalog' under 'Place' ..'Manchester Lancashire' lists a number of Wesleyan Methodist parish registers, which do not include 'burials' in the microfilms / transcriptions they have made. However, see 5.2 below. 5) Cheetham and Cheetham Hill- Cheetham Hill Wesleyan 5.1 Burials-1815-1832- MFPR 269 & Burials-1832-1837- MFPR 270 - microfilms accessible at Manchester Archives & Local Studies; 5.2 Cheetham Hill Wesleyan Cemetery, Manchester, burials registers, 1815-1968; grave register 1815-1957 (from p.951) & old grave register 1861-1955 LDS films. I do not know if they are near Oldham St. Wesleyan Chapel; but was recommended to try them. [A local LDS FH library, for a fee, could arrange to get a copy in for you to view.] Winifred Johns

Hi listers, Still in pursuit of glassworks and glass makers and glass manufacturers, I am hoping that Mike or someone else may be able to help me with the location of the Regent Road Flint Glass Works which was in Salford, operating from at least 1873 (unlikely to be there before 1872) until 1893. It was owned and operated by the DERBYSHIRE family, as one of three sites they used in Manchester. Kath on this list has been tirelessly working away to help me with the family - when we have got to some sort of satisfactory conclusion I will post a little bit about the DERBYSHIREs on this list for interest. In addition to the glassworks, I would like to know where the DERBYSHIRE's houses were in the vicinity. So if I could see any bits of maps which cover some of them, that would be great. 1. The glassworks itself: "Regent Road Flint Glass Works", Salford, between abt 1872 and 1893. I have no exact address but it is likely to be close to the addresses of Eccles New Road, Brooklyn Villas and Fairfield Villas. 2. 285 Eccles New Road, and nearby 2 Brooklyn Villas, and 2 Fairfield Villas, all 1871 3. Napier Street, Salford, 1881 4. 31 Woodbine Street, Salford, 1871 5. 33 River Street, Pendlebury, 1881 6. 41 New River Street, Pendleton, 1891-1920s Sally

I have a map showing John Street in Ardwick, but not specifically the cottages. John St runs between Stockport Rd and South St. If you want the image, I can send it off list. (Dont want to pinch Mike's job!!) Pat W ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Luke To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Location for John Street Cottages in Ardwick I am having difficulty finding John Street Cottages in Ardwick and wonder if I could ask Mike or someone else to help me find this on a Manchester map for the period 1825-1840? Thanks, Noel Luke Phoenix, AZ

I have located this place in 1894 and sent you the map section. Thank you Kathleen for helping me to speed up my search. Cheers Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sally Haden" <haden.sally@googlemail.com> To: <ENG-MANCHESTER@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 3:48 PM > Still in pursuit of glassworks and glass makers and glass > manufacturers, I am hoping that Mike or someone else may be able to > help me with the location of the Regent Road Flint Glass Works which > was in Salford, operating from at least 1873 (unlikely to be there > before 1872) until 1893. <snip>

Hi Noel, My map does not show it as John street cottages. Perhaps becuse my map is from 1844. John street was on the west side of Ardwick Brick fields. I have sent you a copy of this map section. Maybe the surounding street names might be of help to confirm its the right place. Regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Luke" <noellukeasa@cox.net> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 3:12 PM >I am having difficulty finding John Street Cottages in Ardwick and > wonder if I could ask Mike or someone else to help me find this on a > Manchester map for the period 1825-1840?

Many thanks for all your reply's. Sue as now managed to join the site. Cheers jackie.

Thanks Pat, could you send it along? Wonderful. Noel Luke Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of patricia williams Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 12:41 PM To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Location for John Street Cottages in Ardwick I have a map showing John Street in Ardwick, but not specifically the cottages. John St runs between Stockport Rd and South St. If you want the image, I can send it off list. (Dont want to pinch Mike's job!!) Pat W ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Luke To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Location for John Street Cottages in Ardwick I am having difficulty finding John Street Cottages in Ardwick and wonder if I could ask Mike or someone else to help me find this on a Manchester map for the period 1825-1840? Thanks, Noel Luke Phoenix, AZ ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am having difficulty finding John Street Cottages in Ardwick and wonder if I could ask Mike or someone else to help me find this on a Manchester map for the period 1825-1840? Thanks, Noel Luke Phoenix, AZ

Southern Cemetery in Chorlton, Manchester. Opened in 1879. Regards Richard.

Hello Ruth: I checked the Cathedral/Collegiate Church burials for Elizabeth FLETCHER between 1825 and 1837 but the ones in that time period were not the correct age. Sorry - but at least now you know. Regards, Irene

Hi Ruth I don't know if it will help, but the nearest cemetery to Chorlton Row would no doubt have been Southern Cemetery. My grandmother lived in Chorlton and that's where she was buried. They found her in the non-conformist part of the cemetery as she was a Methodist too. I'm not sure when Southern Cemetery was opened though, but it might be worth checking with them. It is on Barlow Moor Road in Chorlton. (We used to live 6 doors from there!) Hope this helps Pauline ----- Original Message ----- From: <RuthGenda@aol.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:08 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Elizabeth FLETCHER > Please can anyone help me find the death and/or burial of my > 2xggrandmother > Elizabeth FLETCHER. She died, probably in Chorlton-on-Medlock, sometime > between the birth of her last (7th) child in Chorlton Row (christening > entry in > register) in 1825 and the date of the first civil registration in 1837. > I've > tried all the transcribed burial records for that period that I can find > on > the web but no joy. > > Elizabeth was born in Beckingham, Nottinghamshire on 17 May 1785. She > married Charles FLETCHER in Newark, Notts, in 1813. They moved to > Manchester > c.1820 and their last 3 children were all christened in Oldham Street > Wesleyan > Chapel in Manchester. I have learned from reading family obituaries that > Elizabeth died leaving her husband with a very young family; and also > that the > family were strongly committed Methodists so I have no idea where to > begin to > look for burials. I have death certificates for most of my family post > 1837 > but again I've no idea where to look for burials for them all. I'm > hoping that > if I can find one it may lead me to others! > > Any clues or pointers would be much appreciated. > > Ruth > > > > > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1575 - Release Date: 26/07/2008 > 4:18 PM > >

Thank you Pauline - but no luck unfortunately. My FLETCHER ancestors lived in Chorlton-on-Medlock and I think a cemetery in Chorlton-cum-Hardy is perhaps too far away. Also, I now see that it didn't open until much later than the date I'm looking at. After trawling the web I've found references to Rusholme Cemetery and this may be the answer. I've contacted Manchester Archives but I'm not optimistic that records have survived as I can't find them listed anywhere. We'll see. But if anyone can tell me something different... Ruth

You could try the Gale Digital collections site. If you go to this link you can sign up for a free trial and they have Manchester newspapers. You don't have to be affiliated with an institution, just read the info at the top . www.gale.com/GDCTrial My great grandmother was killed by a reckless driver of a horse and cart in Piccadilly. In 2005 I obtained a copy of the newspaper account from the Manchester Record Office but I had an actual date of the occurrence. I live in the US and they mailed me copies which of course I had to pay for. However I recently found it also on the Gale website. Good luck, Shirley USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Lemon" <annelemon@xtra.co.nz> To: <ENG-MANCHESTER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 7:22 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] SAUNDERS > Greetings, Listers, from a very stormy, wintry New Zealand > I am looking for assistance with the origins of a James SAUNDERS said to > be from Manchester. I will quote the family story in the hope that some > SAUNDERS researchers might recognise the people concerned: > > "The gossip current in the district was to the effect that he was > well-connected at Home, his people having a cotton mill in Lancashire. The > yarn went that one Sunday he and his brother were driving a pair of > spirited horses in a vehicle and were gaily careering through the streets > of Manchester. A church congregation was dispersing and the reckless young > men drove full tilt into them, injuring some rather severely. The judge > took a serious view of the occurrence and sentenced them both to be > transported to Botany Bay. When liberty came, Jimmy came over to NZ > whaling but the other brother stayed in Australia." > > James did come to NZ in 1834 on the whaler 'Mary and Elizabeth', from > Hobart, Tasmania (Van Diemen's Land). > We have tried convict ship manifests - can't find any with two young men > named SAUNDERS or a James SAUNDERS who fits Jimmy's description. He was > very tall and had such long legs he was nicknamed 'Jimmy the Needle'. > We feel the crime may have been committed between 1820 and 1825 but as we > don't know what length of sentence they were given, we are looking either > side of these dates as well. > A search using A2A provides a reference to a Quarter Sessions Petition at > Salford, Midsummer 1818 - Bill of costs of prosecution of James SAUNDERS, > c1818. We are going to follow this one up, but wonder why it doesn't > mention both young men. > > Newspapers of the day would be another good source - are there any > available online? If not, where would we go to access them? > > So we are still plodding on, but thought this request might be worthwhile. > > Regards to all > > Anne Lemon (my mum was a Mancunian, born 1914 in Harpurhey) > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

As Lynne asks, we need more clues as to the family history of origins & movements and the name of his wife and any children. I know of Craigs in the north of ireland. You might search out such censuses as there are up to 1901; as well as the 1901 census itself. And maybe do a search on Griffiths Lists which were set up around that time. Hugh

Hi Viv, I was excited to see your information about Rochdale Rd this is the address my Mother gave me as to where my GGGrandmother Bridget Clancy nee Duffy died in 1881. In 1881 was it an infirmary or a workhouse? I will Google to see if I can find any other information, This list as always is a mine of information, Thanks, Fran from not so sunny Coffs Harbour Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "VIVIEN ENGLAND" <viv.england@btinternet.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] 1891 & 1902 lookup please > Hi > > I know 449 Rochdale Road was Oldham Workhouse, now Oldham Royal > Infirmary. Working you way down Rochdale Road, 172 would have been fairly > close to town, it may have been Crumpsall Hospital - but not sure. > > Viv > > > Gisela <rongis@bigpond.com> wrote: > Hi List, > > Would it be possible for a lookup of the 1891 & 1901 census for the > address > off 172 (or 142) Hamilton St., Rochdale Road, Manchester. > I have a death certificate that states this as a previous address of > someone > who died in 1897, and I am trying to find out if this was some sort off > institution or a usual residence. > And if he may have family members there? > > The person dies aged 18 as an inmate of a Reformatory School in Holme, > Howden, County of York, but the above is given a previous address. > > Thanks for any replys > Gisela > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi I can only confirm that 449 Rochdale Road was the Oldham Workhouse - now Oldham Royal Infirmary, as this was where my Greatx2 Grandmother died. Oldham Local Studies looked up the records for me, and advised that she was in the infirmary side and gave me details of the date she was admitted, what was wrong with her, and her last meal. I live in Manchester and Rochdale Road is a very long road, which runs through many districts on the north side of town, Crumpsall being one. I have found on death certificates that instead of writing what the institution actually was, they seem to write an address, e.g. 31 Green Lane was Bridgewater Hospital, etc. It might be worth emailing Manchester Local Studies to see if they know what 172 Rochdale Road was? Viv francesw1@gmail.com wrote: Hi Viv, I was excited to see your information about Rochdale Rd this is the address my Mother gave me as to where my GGGrandmother Bridget Clancy nee Duffy died in 1881. In 1881 was it an infirmary or a workhouse? I will Google to see if I can find any other information, This list as always is a mine of information, Thanks, Fran from not so sunny Coffs Harbour Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "VIVIEN ENGLAND" To: Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] 1891 & 1902 lookup please > Hi > > I know 449 Rochdale Road was Oldham Workhouse, now Oldham Royal > Infirmary. Working you way down Rochdale Road, 172 would have been fairly > close to town, it may have been Crumpsall Hospital - but not sure. > > Viv > > > Gisela wrote: > Hi List, > > Would it be possible for a lookup of the 1891 & 1901 census for the > address > off 172 (or 142) Hamilton St., Rochdale Road, Manchester. > I have a death certificate that states this as a previous address of > someone > who died in 1897, and I am trying to find out if this was some sort off > institution or a usual residence. > And if he may have family members there? > > The person dies aged 18 as an inmate of a Reformatory School in Holme, > Howden, County of York, but the above is given a previous address. > > Thanks for any replys > Gisela > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings, Listers, from a very stormy, wintry New Zealand I am looking for assistance with the origins of a James SAUNDERS said to be from Manchester. I will quote the family story in the hope that some SAUNDERS researchers might recognise the people concerned: "The gossip current in the district was to the effect that he was well-connected at Home, his people having a cotton mill in Lancashire. The yarn went that one Sunday he and his brother were driving a pair of spirited horses in a vehicle and were gaily careering through the streets of Manchester. A church congregation was dispersing and the reckless young men drove full tilt into them, injuring some rather severely. The judge took a serious view of the occurrence and sentenced them both to be transported to Botany Bay. When liberty came, Jimmy came over to NZ whaling but the other brother stayed in Australia." James did come to NZ in 1834 on the whaler 'Mary and Elizabeth', from Hobart, Tasmania (Van Diemen's Land). We have tried convict ship manifests - can't find any with two young men named SAUNDERS or a James SAUNDERS who fits Jimmy's description. He was very tall and had such long legs he was nicknamed 'Jimmy the Needle'. We feel the crime may have been committed between 1820 and 1825 but as we don't know what length of sentence they were given, we are looking either side of these dates as well. A search using A2A provides a reference to a Quarter Sessions Petition at Salford, Midsummer 1818 - Bill of costs of prosecution of James SAUNDERS, c1818. We are going to follow this one up, but wonder why it doesn't mention both young men. Newspapers of the day would be another good source - are there any available online? If not, where would we go to access them? So we are still plodding on, but thought this request might be worthwhile. Regards to all Anne Lemon (my mum was a Mancunian, born 1914 in Harpurhey)

Hi Folks, Just to say that Oldham Royal and Crumpsall Hospital (now called North Manchester General) are miles apart and different Rochdale Roads in Greater Manchester. Also,Crumpsall isn't directly on Rochdale Road, but a couple of miles "off" it. Pat W ----- Original Message ----- From: francesw1@gmail.com To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] 1891 & 1902 lookup please Hi Viv, >snip In 1881 was it an infirmary or a workhouse?<snip From: "VIVIEN ENGLAND" <viv.england@btinternet.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] 1891 & 1902 lookup please I know 449 Rochdale Road was Oldham Workhouse, now Oldham Royal Infirmary. Working you way down Rochdale Road, 172 would have been fairly close to town, it may have been Crumpsall Hospital - but not sure.

Hi Fran I'm interested in the surname DUFFY. I've just linked to a Susannah Duffy born about 1834 in Manchester, daughter of Terence Duffy born about 1810 Ireland. The siblings I know of so far are James, John, Thomas, and William. I don't know an awful lot about this family yet, Susannah married William Johnson in 1850 aged just 16. They lived in the Ancoats area. Can you tie in? Jane :o) ----- Original Message ----- From: <francesw1@gmail.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] 1891 & 1902 lookup please > Hi Viv, > I was excited to see your information about Rochdale Rd this is the > address > my Mother gave me as to where my GGGrandmother Bridget Clancy nee Duffy > died > in 1881. > In 1881 was it an infirmary or a workhouse? > I will Google to see if I can find any other information, > This list as always is a mine of information, > Thanks, > Fran from not so sunny Coffs Harbour Australia

Please can anyone help me find the death and/or burial of my 2xggrandmother Elizabeth FLETCHER. She died, probably in Chorlton-on-Medlock, sometime between the birth of her last (7th) child in Chorlton Row (christening entry in register) in 1825 and the date of the first civil registration in 1837. I've tried all the transcribed burial records for that period that I can find on the web but no joy. Elizabeth was born in Beckingham, Nottinghamshire on 17 May 1785. She married Charles FLETCHER in Newark, Notts, in 1813. They moved to Manchester c.1820 and their last 3 children were all christened in Oldham Street Wesleyan Chapel in Manchester. I have learned from reading family obituaries that Elizabeth died leaving her husband with a very young family; and also that the family were strongly committed Methodists so I have no idea where to begin to look for burials. I have death certificates for most of my family post 1837 but again I've no idea where to look for burials for them all. I'm hoping that if I can find one it may lead me to others! Any clues or pointers would be much appreciated. Ruth