Could this be his wife? Deaths Sep 1852 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- EDMONDS Jane Salford 8d 45 -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lorna Sent: 29 August 2008 16:24 To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-MAN] Charles Edmunds I am overwhelmed with the response I have received from my query. I have asked questions on other list serves, with little luck. I have been teary this morning.. From a map Mike Morris sent, I could see Charles hobbling up the street to the mill, perhaps his wife at his side... as you all know, these people become more than names and dates and understanding a bit about his world allows his life to un-fold before my eyes. "...... the streets in the neighbourhood of the mills are thronged with men, women and children flocking to their labour...The factory bell rings from five minutes before six until the hour strikes. Then... the engine starts and the day's work begins. Those who are behind six...are fined two pence; and... after...a very short time of grace, the doors are locked.. A thick black smoke covers the city. The sun appears like a disc without any rays. In this semi-daylight 300,000 people work ceaselessly. A thousand noises rise amidst this unending damp and dark labyrinth...the footsteps of a busy crowd, the crunching wheels of machines, the shriek of steam from the boilers, the regular beat of looms, the heavy rumble of carts, these are the only noises from which you can never escape in these dark half-lit streets...” Smoke from chimneys hung over mills and workers' cottages like a heavy cloud, blocking out the sun. Houses were small, damp, crowded, and sometimes sewage flooded the cellars. Whole families sometimes had to share the same bed which was often just a pile of straw. There were no bathrooms or indoor toilets. Water was collected from a standpipe. A communal ash pit could serve as a privvy for up to 400 people. The air was thick with cotton dust and fluff in the mills. Water provided for drinking was covered in cotton fluff. In some of the mill sheds the temperature reached as high as 82º (20º centigrade). The noise from machinery was deafening. Floors were slippery with machinery oil so people worked barefoot to avoid slipping and falling on the oily floor. There were few safety measures and many accidents. Workers also suffered from many different illnesses. People often worked overtime or during their breaks." I know he immigrated to America in 1856, sailing alone on the Horizon. I can only imagine how the blazing stars and fresh sea air must have felt..especially after reading accounts of the life in Salford. I see him trying to maneuver the stairs between the sleeping quarters and the deck, his eyes fierce with determination. Im still trying to see if he had other kids with his wife, Jane and why he came all by himself. Thanks for any help you can give me. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09

Lorna Honour Hecter was baptisd 1779 in the Isle of Brewers (which is near Taunton Somerset) It has her husband as Samuel Edmunds married 24 febrary 1800 at the same place. Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Sent: 29 August 2008 09:35 To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Charles Edmunds b. 1799 living on Cross StreetSalford1851 Lorna There were plenty of woolen mills he could have trained in Somerset. Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lorna Sent: 28 August 2008 20:09 To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-MAN] Charles Edmunds b. 1799 living on Cross Street Salford1851 I am new to this list but I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am looking for Charles Edmonds. In the 1851 Salford Census, it lists him as born b. 1799 in Somerset. Although I can't verify, family legend has him born on 17 Oct..father Samuel, mother Honer Heckter? There is some mention of a birthplace called Kabbeth? somewhere in Somerset. He is an operative dyer, general (whatever that means..I assume he worked with the dye lots in the cotton mills) His wife is Jane born in approx 1809 in Lancaster Town. She is listed as a cotton doubler (whatever that is) , there is one daughter, Ellen who was born in 1830 in Lancaster, Manchester and listed as a servant. They are listed as living at 1 Cross Street shed #63. The ecclesiastical district is not listed neither is the borough. I know that Charles legs were crippled and he used two canes to walk. His back may have been deformed, also. If he was born crippled, perhaps he was apprenticed out, young? Maybe he suffered an accident? Perhaps he came from Somerset to seek his fortune? Was there an industry in Somerset that would have prepared Charles to work in the Cotton Mills? I assume from the type of work they did and from other accounts, they were some of the very poor working class. As I can't find this family in the census before 1851, I wonder if anyone can see if there is a Salford census for 1840? If his wife was 10 years younger, perhaps it was a second marriage? If the wife was from Lancaster and the daughter born there, where would I find the marriage records? Did they have any other kids? What parish would be in that area? St Trinity? Are there parish records for St Trinity? Would that be where the working poor would go? Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Any ideas where to look further..anything at all would be welcome. Thank you most sincerely, Lorna Rosenstein ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09 ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09

Hi Sandra, I located Lloyd street in 1844 to 1849. I will send you the map section. You can see its a nice home for that time period. Greenheys is on the east side of Manchester, I would say its almost part of Chorlton on Medlock. Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Geddes 1" <sandrageddes@aanet.com.au> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:45 AM > Please,is there somebody with access to the 1851 census that could look up > James WOOD 2 Loyd St Greenhays Grocer & Tea Dealer <snip>

Madalyn.. This is so exciting. It is like being on a treasure hunt for me. Thanks for taking the time to help me. I heard someone mention the Somerset House files as being a repository of alot of birth, marriage and death records. HAve you heard of it? I can't find it on the internet so maybe there is another way to access it? Thanks again, Lorna howandmad.t21@btinternet.com wrote: > Hi Lorna, > > Have checked the 1851 waterdamaged CD and your family > are living in the Greengate area of Salford. Piece HO107/2223, > Enumeration District 5 - Schedule No. 63. > > The transcribed column heading for Schedule appears as "Shed." > hence the confusion. > > To help you navigate the area on Mike's map section the streets either side > of this entry are: > Robert Street > York Street > Coade Street > CROSS STREET > James Street > Henry Street > Phillips Street > Preston Place > Paradise Row > Broughton Road > > Regards, Madalyn > > > >From Mike Morris: > <I have located Cross street in 1844. Sheds are not mentioned on the map, > but > perhaps they are part of the industrial complex on Cross street. just below > the cotton mill acroos from Ebenezer chapel and Bury street,.........> > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lorna" <Lorna@xmission.com> >> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:09 PM >> >> >> >>> I am new to this list but I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am >>> looking for Charles Edmonds. In the 1851 Salford Census, it lists him >>> as born b. 1799 in Somerset. Although I can't verify, family legend has >>> him born on 17 Oct..father Samuel, mother Honer Heckter? There is some >>> mention of a birthplace called Kabbeth? somewhere in Somerset. He is an >>> operative dyer, general (whatever that means..I assume he worked with >>> the dye lots in the cotton mills) His wife is Jane born in approx 1809 >>> in Lancaster Town. She is listed as a cotton doubler (whatever that is) >>> , there is one daughter, Ellen who was born in 1830 in Lancaster, >>> Manchester and listed as a servant. They are listed as living at 1 >>> Cross Street shed #63. The ecclesiastical district is not listed >>> neither is the borough. <snip> >>> > > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Dear Mike.. Apparently, I had the gold mine with you and Madalyn. I have a question on the Cross streets you found. There is a note that my Charles Edmunds was asked to visit the Greengate District. As he was crippled, I doubt he could have gone too far so would that narrow down the location of his Cross Street? As far as the shed being not a hovel..maybe that is just a reference to a house. Shed is what is printed in the top column of the 1851 Salford census. Any thoughts? Lorna Mike Morris wrote: > Hi Madalyn, > thank you for this extra information. I perused the maps again and strange > to find, there are three Cross streets not connected at all in the same > basic area in 1844. I found the one you mentioned and have sent this one > on., Plus the other one on the east side of Gravel lane church. > > My thanks for your help. > Mike Morris > Toronto Canada > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "howandmad.t21@btinternet.com" <howandmad@talk21.com> > To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:51 AM> > >> Have checked the 1851 waterdamaged CD and your family >> are living in the Greengate area of Salford. Piece HO107/2223, >> Enumeration District 5 - Schedule No. 63. >> > > >> To help you navigate the area on Mike's map section the streets either >> side >> of this entry are: > Robert Street > York Street > Coade Street > CROSS >> STREET > James Street >> Henry Street > Phillips Street > Preston Place > Paradise Row > Broughton >> Road <snipped> >> > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hello Madalyn.. That could very well be.. Any idea how I could see if Jane Morris died..si the area specific enough for me to narrow down cemetary records or something of that kind? I'm on pins and needles as I suspect you are on to something. Eagerly, Lorna howandmad.t21@btinternet.com wrote: > Hi Lorna, > > To follow-up on Carolyn's finds: > > Phillimore's Parish Records > Isle Brewers Marriages > > Samuel EDMUNDS & Jane MORRIS - 31 August 1796 > Samuel EDMUNDS and Honour HECTOR - 24 February, 1800 > > Might be Charles father remarrying after Jane's death. > > FreeBMD has a death reg. for > Honor EDMONDS Sept.Q/1838 > ref: Langport Volume 10, page 251 > > There is an entry on Family History Online: > Somerset NBI V.2 for the burial of Honor EDMONDS in 1838 > if someone has access to the data - sadly my credit has run out for > this month :-( > > 1841 census: Broughton Road, Greengate,Salford HO107/585/19 Page 28 > JOHNSON Jane 35 Independant born in County > EDMUNDSON/???EDMONDS Margaret 10 F.S. (Female Servant) b.in Co. > > No luck with Charles yet. > Regards, Madalyn > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn" <dayc@talk21.com> > To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:29 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Charles Edmunds b. 1799 living on > CrossStreetSalford1851 > > > >> Lorna >> >> Honour Hecter was baptisd 1779 in the Isle of Brewers (which is near >> Taunton >> Somerset) It has her husband as Samuel Edmunds married 24 febrary 1800 at >> the same place. >> >> Carolyn >> > > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Carolyn...you are amazing...do you have a source I can list for Samuels marriage to Honor as well as her death? (I';m bad at writing down my sources and then when I want to look again, I can't remember where I found it...) thank you for hunting with me..there is a Charles Edmunds with a wife named Jane living nearby in 1850 Dorsetshire. He, too, has a father named Samuel. I suspect the Samuel and Honor might have been his folks. Lorna Carolyn wrote: > Lorna > > > > I have found the death of Horor Edmonds in Somerset therefore the family > didn’t move to Lancashire together. > > > > > Deaths Sep 1838 > > _____ > > > Edmonds > > Honor > > > > Langport > > X > > 251 > > > > > Langport is the register office for Isle of Brewers. > > > > Carolyn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 > 19:09 > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Madalyn, thank you for this extra information. I perused the maps again and strange to find, there are three Cross streets not connected at all in the same basic area in 1844. I found the one you mentioned and have sent this one on., Plus the other one on the east side of Gravel lane church. My thanks for your help. Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "howandmad.t21@btinternet.com" <howandmad@talk21.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:51 AM> > Have checked the 1851 waterdamaged CD and your family > are living in the Greengate area of Salford. Piece HO107/2223, > Enumeration District 5 - Schedule No. 63. > To help you navigate the area on Mike's map section the streets either > side > of this entry are: > Robert Street > York Street > Coade Street > CROSS > STREET > James Street > Henry Street > Phillips Street > Preston Place > Paradise Row > Broughton > Road <snipped>

In the IGI there is a marriage of Charles Edmonds and Jane Johnson 21 July 1850 Cathedral Manchester Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lorna Sent: 28 August 2008 20:09 To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-MAN] Charles Edmunds b. 1799 living on Cross Street Salford1851 I am new to this list but I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am looking for Charles Edmonds. In the 1851 Salford Census, it lists him as born b. 1799 in Somerset. Although I can't verify, family legend has him born on 17 Oct..father Samuel, mother Honer Heckter? There is some mention of a birthplace called Kabbeth? somewhere in Somerset. He is an operative dyer, general (whatever that means..I assume he worked with the dye lots in the cotton mills) His wife is Jane born in approx 1809 in Lancaster Town. She is listed as a cotton doubler (whatever that is) , there is one daughter, Ellen who was born in 1830 in Lancaster, Manchester and listed as a servant. They are listed as living at 1 Cross Street shed #63. The ecclesiastical district is not listed neither is the borough. I know that Charles legs were crippled and he used two canes to walk. His back may have been deformed, also. If he was born crippled, perhaps he was apprenticed out, young? Maybe he suffered an accident? Perhaps he came from Somerset to seek his fortune? Was there an industry in Somerset that would have prepared Charles to work in the Cotton Mills? I assume from the type of work they did and from other accounts, they were some of the very poor working class. As I can't find this family in the census before 1851, I wonder if anyone can see if there is a Salford census for 1840? If his wife was 10 years younger, perhaps it was a second marriage? If the wife was from Lancaster and the daughter born there, where would I find the marriage records? Did they have any other kids? What parish would be in that area? St Trinity? Are there parish records for St Trinity? Would that be where the working poor would go? Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Any ideas where to look further..anything at all would be welcome. Thank you most sincerely, Lorna Rosenstein ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09

Lorna There were plenty of woolen mills he could have trained in Somerset. Carolyn -----Original Message----- From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lorna Sent: 28 August 2008 20:09 To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-MAN] Charles Edmunds b. 1799 living on Cross Street Salford1851 I am new to this list but I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am looking for Charles Edmonds. In the 1851 Salford Census, it lists him as born b. 1799 in Somerset. Although I can't verify, family legend has him born on 17 Oct..father Samuel, mother Honer Heckter? There is some mention of a birthplace called Kabbeth? somewhere in Somerset. He is an operative dyer, general (whatever that means..I assume he worked with the dye lots in the cotton mills) His wife is Jane born in approx 1809 in Lancaster Town. She is listed as a cotton doubler (whatever that is) , there is one daughter, Ellen who was born in 1830 in Lancaster, Manchester and listed as a servant. They are listed as living at 1 Cross Street shed #63. The ecclesiastical district is not listed neither is the borough. I know that Charles legs were crippled and he used two canes to walk. His back may have been deformed, also. If he was born crippled, perhaps he was apprenticed out, young? Maybe he suffered an accident? Perhaps he came from Somerset to seek his fortune? Was there an industry in Somerset that would have prepared Charles to work in the Cotton Mills? I assume from the type of work they did and from other accounts, they were some of the very poor working class. As I can't find this family in the census before 1851, I wonder if anyone can see if there is a Salford census for 1840? If his wife was 10 years younger, perhaps it was a second marriage? If the wife was from Lancaster and the daughter born there, where would I find the marriage records? Did they have any other kids? What parish would be in that area? St Trinity? Are there parish records for St Trinity? Would that be where the working poor would go? Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Any ideas where to look further..anything at all would be welcome. Thank you most sincerely, Lorna Rosenstein ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 19:09

Hi Lorna, Have checked the 1851 waterdamaged CD and your family are living in the Greengate area of Salford. Piece HO107/2223, Enumeration District 5 - Schedule No. 63. The transcribed column heading for Schedule appears as "Shed." hence the confusion. To help you navigate the area on Mike's map section the streets either side of this entry are: Robert Street York Street Coade Street CROSS STREET James Street Henry Street Phillips Street Preston Place Paradise Row Broughton Road Regards, Madalyn >From Mike Morris: <I have located Cross street in 1844. Sheds are not mentioned on the map, but perhaps they are part of the industrial complex on Cross street. just below the cotton mill acroos from Ebenezer chapel and Bury street,.........> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lorna" <Lorna@xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:09 PM > > >>I am new to this list but I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am >> looking for Charles Edmonds. In the 1851 Salford Census, it lists him >> as born b. 1799 in Somerset. Although I can't verify, family legend has >> him born on 17 Oct..father Samuel, mother Honer Heckter? There is some >> mention of a birthplace called Kabbeth? somewhere in Somerset. He is an >> operative dyer, general (whatever that means..I assume he worked with >> the dye lots in the cotton mills) His wife is Jane born in approx 1809 >> in Lancaster Town. She is listed as a cotton doubler (whatever that is) >> , there is one daughter, Ellen who was born in 1830 in Lancaster, >> Manchester and listed as a servant. They are listed as living at 1 >> Cross Street shed #63. The ecclesiastical district is not listed >> neither is the borough. <snip>

Hi Lorna It is an interesting story about Charles EDMONDS. Just a thought about his deformities - perhaps it was rickets from a very poor diet. Or perhaps it was something to do with the dyes. I imagine the dyes wouldn't have done anyone's health a favour, and if he was inhaling or touching toxic material it might have affected his bones? If you have time, I suggest you do some research into the cotton industry, especially dyeing. Or into rickets. You might find something interesting to explain his deformities. It looks as if he migrated to Lancashire and then met Jane, sometime in the 1820s. You say Ellen was born 1830 in Lancaster, Manchester? This is probably "Lancashire, Manchester"? I have searched the 1851 census to check the details, but cannot find it, or Charles and Jane anywhere. Can you give us the reference number? It is the number at the side of the page which starts "HO/...." Another thought, the name EDMONDS might easily be swopped by a transcriber for EDWARDS. I say this because I just looked at a family transcribed as EDMONDS when in fact I think it is EDWARDS. So you could try searching 1841 under EDWARDS. Good luck Sally in Yorkshire

I am overwhelmed with the response I have received from my query. I have asked questions on other list serves, with little luck. I have been teary this morning.. From a map Mike Morris sent, I could see Charles hobbling up the street to the mill, perhaps his wife at his side... as you all know, these people become more than names and dates and understanding a bit about his world allows his life to un-fold before my eyes. "...... the streets in the neighbourhood of the mills are thronged with men, women and children flocking to their labour...The factory bell rings from five minutes before six until the hour strikes. Then... the engine starts and the day's work begins. Those who are behind six...are fined two pence; and... after...a very short time of grace, the doors are locked.. A thick black smoke covers the city. The sun appears like a disc without any rays. In this semi-daylight 300,000 people work ceaselessly. A thousand noises rise amidst this unending damp and dark labyrinth...the footsteps of a busy crowd, the crunching wheels of machines, the shriek of steam from the boilers, the regular beat of looms, the heavy rumble of carts, these are the only noises from which you can never escape in these dark half-lit streets...” Smoke from chimneys hung over mills and workers' cottages like a heavy cloud, blocking out the sun. Houses were small, damp, crowded, and sometimes sewage flooded the cellars. Whole families sometimes had to share the same bed which was often just a pile of straw. There were no bathrooms or indoor toilets. Water was collected from a standpipe. A communal ash pit could serve as a privvy for up to 400 people. The air was thick with cotton dust and fluff in the mills. Water provided for drinking was covered in cotton fluff. In some of the mill sheds the temperature reached as high as 82º (20º centigrade). The noise from machinery was deafening. Floors were slippery with machinery oil so people worked barefoot to avoid slipping and falling on the oily floor. There were few safety measures and many accidents. Workers also suffered from many different illnesses. People often worked overtime or during their breaks." I know he immigrated to America in 1856, sailing alone on the Horizon. I can only imagine how the blazing stars and fresh sea air must have felt..especially after reading accounts of the life in Salford. I see him trying to maneuver the stairs between the sleeping quarters and the deck, his eyes fierce with determination. Im still trying to see if he had other kids with his wife, Jane and why he came all by himself. Thanks for any help you can give me.

Carolyn.. Thank you so much for this... I suppose it isn't too much of a stretch to assume my Charles Edmunds was born before his parents married. Can I impose on you to see if there are any christening records that list any of the couple's children? It is presumptuous of me to ask, I know but as you are a researcher, you understand how obsessed people become with this... Thanks for any help you can give me.. Lorna Rosenstein Carolyn wrote: > Lorna > > Honour Hecter was baptisd 1779 in the Isle of Brewers (which is near Taunton > Somerset) It has her husband as Samuel Edmunds married 24 febrary 1800 at > the same place. > > Carolyn > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn > Sent: 29 August 2008 09:35 > To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Charles Edmunds b. 1799 living on Cross > StreetSalford1851 > > Lorna > > There were plenty of woolen mills he could have trained in Somerset. > > Carolyn > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-manchester-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lorna > Sent: 28 August 2008 20:09 > To: eng-manchester@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ENG-MAN] Charles Edmunds b. 1799 living on Cross Street > Salford1851 > > I am new to this list but I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am > looking for Charles Edmonds. In the 1851 Salford Census, it lists him > as born b. 1799 in Somerset. Although I can't verify, family legend has > him born on 17 Oct..father Samuel, mother Honer Heckter? There is some > mention of a birthplace called Kabbeth? somewhere in Somerset. He is an > operative dyer, general (whatever that means..I assume he worked with > the dye lots in the cotton mills) His wife is Jane born in approx 1809 > in Lancaster Town. She is listed as a cotton doubler (whatever that is) > , there is one daughter, Ellen who was born in 1830 in Lancaster, > Manchester and listed as a servant. They are listed as living at 1 > Cross Street shed #63. The ecclesiastical district is not listed > neither is the borough. > > I know that Charles legs were crippled and he used two canes to walk. > His back may have been deformed, also. If he was born crippled, perhaps > he was apprenticed out, young? Maybe he suffered an accident? Perhaps > he came from Somerset to seek his fortune? Was there an industry in > Somerset that would have prepared Charles to work in the Cotton Mills? > I assume from the type of work they did and from other accounts, they > were some of the very poor working class. > > As I can't find this family in the census before 1851, I wonder if > anyone can see if there is a Salford census for 1840? If his wife was > 10 years younger, perhaps it was a second marriage? If the wife was > from Lancaster and the daughter born there, where would I find the > marriage records? Did they have any other kids? What parish would be in > that area? St Trinity? Are there parish records for St Trinity? Would > that be where the working poor would go? > > Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Any ideas where to look > further..anything at all would be welcome. > > Thank you most sincerely, > > Lorna Rosenstein > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 > 19:09 > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 > 19:09 > > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 > 19:09 > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.9/1636 - Release Date: 26/08/2008 > 19:09 > > > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

My Blackthorn in 1894 is on the west side of the Ardwick boundary. Newchurch street runs west to east across Blackthorn. I will send you this map section. Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Stanley" <bryan.stanley@sympatico.ca> To: "Mike Hines" <deneb@onetel.com> Cc: "Manchester Post" <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 6:50 PM > Mike, my map is of 1950's vintage. Between Albert and Myrtle Streets > running > N and S starting in the west: <snip>

The map of the Ardwick area dated 1894 shows Blackthorn within the Ardwick Ward boundary. It ran south into Mart street. Regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Stanley" <bryan.stanley@sympatico.ca> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:08 PM >I have found a Blackthorn St. in Beswick which is just north of Ardwick. It > is located running south from Albert St. which in turn is located to the > south of Ashton New Road. <snip>

Mike, my map is of 1950's vintage. Between Albert and Myrtle Streets running N and S starting in the west: Rylance--Carmen--Blackthorn--Blackrock Streets. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hines" <deneb@onetel.com> To: "Bryan Stanley" <bryan.stanley@sympatico.ca> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:21 PM Subject: Re: Blackthorn St. > Hi Bryan > > Thanks for the details - our maps are obviously different! > > I can find Albert St but no Blackthorn St. There is a large space between > Albert St and Myrtle St (bordered by Rylance St & Blackrock St both > running North to South) - is this where Blackthorn St is on your map? > > Mike > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Stanley" <bryan.stanley@sympatico.ca> > To: "Mike Hines" <deneb@onetel.com> > Cc: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:52 PM > Subject: Blackthorn St. > > >> BlankHI Mike >> >> I have found a Blackthorn St. in Beswick which is just north of Ardwick. >> It >> is located running south from Albert St. which in turn is located to the >> south of Ashton New Road. >> >> Bryan in Ontario > >

Hello Lorna, Welcome to the list. I have located Cross street in 1844. Sheds are not mentioned on the map, but perhaps they are part of the industrial complex on Cross street. just below the cotton mill acroos from Ebenezer chapel and Bury street, Not far to the east was Trinity church. There was also the Wesleyan Methodist church on Gravel lane. The Cross street area might come under St Stephens Ward. I will send you these maps sections. Regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorna" <Lorna@xmission.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:09 PM >I am new to this list but I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am > looking for Charles Edmonds. In the 1851 Salford Census, it lists him > as born b. 1799 in Somerset. Although I can't verify, family legend has > him born on 17 Oct..father Samuel, mother Honer Heckter? There is some > mention of a birthplace called Kabbeth? somewhere in Somerset. He is an > operative dyer, general (whatever that means..I assume he worked with > the dye lots in the cotton mills) His wife is Jane born in approx 1809 > in Lancaster Town. She is listed as a cotton doubler (whatever that is) > , there is one daughter, Ellen who was born in 1830 in Lancaster, > Manchester and listed as a servant. They are listed as living at 1 > Cross Street shed #63. The ecclesiastical district is not listed > neither is the borough. <snip>

The water-damaged census for Manchester, Salford and a few other places is unfilmed. The Manchester & Lancs FHS have transcribed the originals working under very difficult conditions. The transcriptions are available from them on CD or on familyhistoryonline.net for a small pay-per-view fee. Regards, Irene

Hi Lorna Have you tried www.familysearch.org or www.lancashirebmd.co.uk or the Lancashire OPC. There may also be parish records from Somerset or a BMD there. Haven't tried as my Somerset people disappeared. Betty Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorna" <Lorna@xmission.com> To: <eng-manchester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:09 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Charles Edmunds b. 1799 living on Cross Street Salford 1851 >I am new to this list but I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am > looking for Charles Edmonds. In the 1851 Salford Census, it lists him > as born b. 1799 in Somerset. Although I can't verify, family legend has > him born on 17 Oct..father Samuel, mother Honer Heckter? There is some > mention of a birthplace called Kabbeth? somewhere in Somerset. He is an > operative dyer, general (whatever that means..I assume he worked with > the dye lots in the cotton mills) His wife is Jane born in approx 1809 > in Lancaster Town. She is listed as a cotton doubler (whatever that is) > , there is one daughter, Ellen who was born in 1830 in Lancaster, > Manchester and listed as a servant. They are listed as living at 1 > Cross Street shed #63. The ecclesiastical district is not listed > neither is the borough. > > I know that Charles legs were crippled and he used two canes to walk. > His back may have been deformed, also. If he was born crippled, perhaps > he was apprenticed out, young? Maybe he suffered an accident? Perhaps > he came from Somerset to seek his fortune? Was there an industry in > Somerset that would have prepared Charles to work in the Cotton Mills? > I assume from the type of work they did and from other accounts, they > were some of the very poor working class. > > As I can't find this family in the census before 1851, I wonder if > anyone can see if there is a Salford census for 1840? If his wife was > 10 years younger, perhaps it was a second marriage? If the wife was > from Lancaster and the daughter born there, where would I find the > marriage records? Did they have any other kids? What parish would be in > that area? St Trinity? Are there parish records for St Trinity? Would > that be where the working poor would go? > > Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Any ideas where to look > further..anything at all would be welcome. > > Thank you most sincerely, > > Lorna Rosenstein > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. > Other people can learn from them! > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-MANCHESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message