Hi Debbie Have you considered the possibility that there were possibly two children called William and Emily, the first born dying young and that they might be the ones appearing or not appearing in the 1881 census? It is quite common to reuse names. If Edward was born 1832 here will not be a birth certificate for him as this is before civil registration. You would need to find parish records for a baptism which may or may not give you DOB. If he was born 1839 then he may not have been registered as that was early days when many were not. Just a couple of thoughts Regards Lyn In Oz. > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message

Hi All, It has been a while since I last asked for help and I am hoping that someone can shed some light on my problem. I apologise for the long email, but I hope it all makes sense as you read through it. I am researching William Williams (my grandfather) and Edward Williams (my great grandfather), both born in Manchester, England, and in the past some of you have given me helpful information, but with that information plus information I already had I am now quite confused. The scenario is as follows: Edward Williams - I am unable to find a birth certificate for him, but the 1881 Census indicates his DOB as approx 1839. His Marriage and Death Certificates indicate DOB approx 1832. He married Hannah Hayes in Manchester on 18th January 1857 aged 25. On his Death Certificate his parents are 'unknown'. On the 1881 English Census Edward is 42, Hannah is 38 and they have 4 children - George H aged 21, Edward P aged 17, William aged 7 & Emily aged 4 This is where it becomes 'weird'. I have been working from the following documents: The 1881 Census, handwritten notes from Hannah, Edward & Hannah's Marriage & Death Certificates and Ship Records (they came to Australia on the 'Dacca' on 26th July 1887), William's Marriage Certificate and Emily's Marriage Certificate. >From all of these documents the ages of George H (Henry) and Edward P (Percival) all correspond to the appropriate years, that is George Henry was born 1859-1860 and Edward Percival was born 1863-1864. Neither of them ever married. But the ages of William and Emily vary from one document to another, eg..... 1881 Census - William's DOB approx 1874 Ship Records - William's DOB approx 1874 Handwritten notes from Hannah - William's DOB approx 1879 Edward's Death Certificate - William's DOB approx 1879 Hannah's Death Certificate - William's DOB approx 1874 William's Marriage Certificate - indicates his DOB approx 1879 William's Death Certificate - indicates his approx DOB as 1877 1881 Census - Emily's DOB approx 1877 Ship Records - Emily's DOB approx 1879 Handwritten notes from Hannah - Emily's DOB approx 1883 Edward's Death Certificate - Emily's DOB approx 1882 Hannah's Death Certificate - Emily's DOB approx 1878 Emily's Marriage Certificate - indicates her DOB approx 1884 Emily's Death Certificate - indicates her approx DOB as 1884 My confusion begins with the fact that Emily appears on the 1881 Census as aged 4, yet her Death Certificate and Marriage Certificate indicates she wasn't born until 1884, and her mother's notes indicate she was born in 1883 etc..... It is similar for William - he appears on the 1881 Census as aged 7 which indicates he was born approx 1874, yet his Marriage Certificate indicates he was born approx 1879 and his Death Certificate indicates he was born approx 1877????? So to cut a long story short: I have William as being born in - 1874, 1877 & 1879 I have Emily as being born in - 1877, 1878, 1879, 1882, 1883, & 1884 My dilema is that I don't know what to believe and I am going crazy. It is also making it impossible to find Birth Certificates for both William and Emily. Can anyone PLEASE help with suggestions ????? I would be most grateful :) :) :) Thanks in advance Debbie

Morning all, Today's visit to the OPC site found lots more databases have been added in! http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexw.html 4 August 2011 Marriages 1892 to 1896 from the Church of St Michael-in-the-Hamlet, in the district of Aigburth, Liverpool Baptisms 1784 to 1821 from the Church of St Peter, in the District of Blackley, Manchester Baptisms 1844 to 1872 from Fletcher Street Methodist, Bolton Baptisms 1892 to 1926 and Marriages 1910 to 1920 from Deane Methodist, in the District of Deane, Bolton Marriages 1878 to 1900 from the Parish of Croston Baptisms 1876 to 1886 from the Church of St Ambrose (later with All Saints), in the district of Everton, Liverpool Burials 1831 to 1833 from Low Hill Cemetery, in the district of Everton, Liverpool Baptisms 1835 to 1841 from the Church of St George, in the District of Hulme, Manchester Burials 1826 to 1878 from Christ Church, Hunter St, Liverpool Baptisms 1906 to 1935 from Wesleyan Central Chapel, Liverpool Baptisms 1927 to 1939 from the Church of St Matthias, Liverpool Marriages 1754 to 1763 and Burials 1723 to 1756 and 1848 to 1860 from the Church of St Nicholas, Newchurch in Rossendale Marriages 1754 to 1763 and Burials 1723 to 1756, previously extracted from the Bishop's Transcripts These are replaced by the contents of the Parish Register and include entries missing from the BTs Baptisms 1901 to 1909 and Marriages 1923 to 1933 from St Mark, Newtown, Pemberton Baptisms 1806 to 1812 and Burials 1795 to 1806 from St John in the Town of Preston Marriages 1878 to 1904 from the Church of St Chrysostom, Rusholme, Manchester Baptisms, Marriages and Burials 1786 to 1790 from the Church of St James, Toxteth, Liverpool Happy hunting :o) Regards, Sally

Hello listers, Today's visit to the OPC website found the following databases have been added: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexw.html 2 August 2011 Marriages 1859 to 1870 and 1887 to 1900 from the Church of St Mary the Virgin in the Parish of Blackburn Baptisms 1798 to 1809 from the Church of St Peter in the Parish of Burnley Burials 1879 to 1899 and Marriages 1850 to 1859 from the Parish of Church Kirk Burials 1900 to 1926 from St Mary the Virgin in the Parish of Goosnargh A continuation of the Register of Burials for 1867 to 1926 Baptisms 1866 to 1887 from St David, Haigh Marriages 1866 to 1977 from the Parish of Low Wray Banns 1843 to 1888 and Marriages 1843 to 1900 from the Parish of Mawdesley with Bispham Baptisms 1741 to 1790 from the Parish of Penwortham Baptisms 1865 to 1870 and Burials 1781 to 1785 from St John in the Town of Preston Burials 1888 to 1899 from the Parish of Stalmine Baptisms 1809 to 1812 from the Parish of Tunstall Burials 1843 to 1895 from the Church of St Mark, Witton in the Parish of Blackburn Regards, Sally

Paul, As Ancestry do normally use the Piece/Folio/Page census references for all the UK censuses including the 1851, this suggests that the data you're seeking is in the water-damaged section of the census. I'm not actually aware of a street index to that section but there may well be one. You might find it helpful also to investigate the information here: www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk/Ancestry_1851%20Unfilmed_Census.pdf Regards, Bob On 04/08/2011 06:30, Paul Brookes wrote: Bob, Thankyou. With this link I was able to get the folio numbers but on the ancestr y site these are not used as search terms. I now know, thanks to Tony Lambert t hat the sub registration district is London Road. I am still stuck as to enumer ation district and page number. Sent from my Windows Phone

Bob, Thankyou. With this link I was able to get the folio numbers but on the ancestry site these are not used as search terms. I now know, thanks to Tony Lambert that the sub registration district is London Road. I am still stuck as to enumeration district and page number. Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Bob Thornley Sent: 03 August 2011 21:47 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] 1851 Census street index (was Introducing myself) Paul, This is the place to get the information you want [1]http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:1851 _census_registration_districts Good luck, Regards, Bob On 03/08/2011 18:41, Paul Brookes wrote: Hi all, My name is Paul Brookes and Iive in Wombwell in the Dearne Valley South Yorkshi re. I am researching the family on my fathers side who were called LAURENCE. Sp ecifically, William Michael LAURENCE 1817-1874 who was the proprietor of LAUREN CES Temperance Hotel at 30, Piccadilly from 1849-1857. Please can someone tell me the sub registration district and page of the 1851 Manchester census that f eatures 30, Piccadilly? Sent from my Windows Phone ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [2]ENG-MANCHESTER-request @rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:1851_census_registration_districts 2. mailto:[email protected] ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Paul, This is the place to get the information you want [1]http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:1851 _census_registration_districts Good luck, Regards, Bob On 03/08/2011 18:41, Paul Brookes wrote: Hi all, My name is Paul Brookes and Iive in Wombwell in the Dearne Valley South Yorkshi re. I am researching the family on my fathers side who were called LAURENCE. Sp ecifically, William Michael LAURENCE 1817-1874 who was the proprietor of LAUREN CES Temperance Hotel at 30, Piccadilly from 1849-1857. Please can someone tell me the sub registration district and page of the 1851 Manchester census that f eatures 30, Piccadilly? Sent from my Windows Phone ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [2]ENG-MANCHESTER-request @rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:1851_census_registration_districts 2. mailto:[email protected]

Hi all, My name is Paul Brookes and Iive in Wombwell in the Dearne Valley South Yorkshire. I am researching the family on my fathers side who were called LAURENCE. Specifically, William Michael LAURENCE 1817-1874 who was the proprietor of LAURENCES Temperance Hotel at 30, Piccadilly from 1849-1857. Please can someone tell me the sub registration district and page of the 1851 Manchester census that features 30, Piccadilly? Sent from my Windows Phone

I find this web site great for looking up who lived where http://www.historicaldirectories.org/ Go to the location section and select Lancashire There are 54 directories, of course it does not cover all years and all places but hopefully you can find something that will help. How I look is as follows: I select Slater's Directory of Manchester & Salford, 1879. [Part 2: Trades, Institutions, Streets, etc.] And I am interested in the Street section Click on the red Directory bit Click on browse directory both on the right hand side You now have 737 pages to look at I type in 500 and enter to get my bearings and I am at Oxford Street so I can go either side to find what I want. There is no Pleasant Gorve but there may be another section for Hulme you need togo exploring. I just did this the other day to find who lived in the houses of two people who got married in 1878. Good Luck Dianne

Hi Mike: Not on topic, but did you know this lady has been trying to get in touch with you on the Salford Online forum? "Hello Mike Morris, Toronto This is my second try at sending you a note! I'm one of those total pratts that finds technology a mystery. My first attempt was just to introduce myself - and my husband. I had tried to research some information on the old cinemas of Hulme, the Pop., Crescent, Junction, etc., and you were giving an account on Warwick Street. My husband, Les Summerfield, lived at 81 Warwick Street and he remembers you. He remembers you as a cricketer. He had a stroke some 13 years ago consequently we never go out so we dwell on memories, and our happiest were experienced in Hulme. I started doing ancestry but found - as I get older - the experience is depressing. I feel 'mortal'. I prefer now to go on the Findmypast site and peck around the streets, seeing if I can identify anyone or anyplace. Of course, 1911 is a bit out of range for me, so my hunt is limited. I found your accounts interesting. I lived at 22 Boston Street; the house faced the bus stop. The Pop was alongside a stonemason's yard which was next door to us. Boston St used to have trams running both ways, but I only ever remember the one tram which tootled off to Poynton - I think. The number 36 rings a bell. Anyway, I'd be very interested in any 'memories' you can afford us. They'll be very entertaining, I promise you. Pat" Cheers! Gail ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Morris" <[email protected]> To: "SEND MAIL MANCHESTER" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 4:24 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Pleasant Grove, Hulme >I have forgotten, who was it that was looking for information on Pleasant >Grove's location in Hulme? > > Regards > > Mike Morris > > Toronto Canada > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From Cyndi's List: >URL : http://www.bloodandfrogs.com/p/forms.html >TITLE : Blood and Frogs: Jewish Genealogy and More: Forms >DESCRIPTION : A series of free genealogy forms that complement each other and work together. The B&F Forms System includes an Ancestor Form (Pedigree Chart), Family Form, Sibling Form, Ancestor Location Form and a Form Index Sheet. Other forms will be added later. All forms can be filled out on your computer, or printed (Letter or A4 size) and then filled out. > >URL : http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/genealogy_charts.asp >TITLE : Ellis Island - Genealogy Learning Center - Charts & Forms >DESCRIPTION : The Ellis Island site requires you to create a free registration in order to get the forms and use the site. > >URL : http://www.vertex42.com/ExcelTemplates/family-tree-template.html >TITLE : Free Family Tree Template | Printable Blank Family Tree Chart >DESCRIPTION : Create and print a multi-generational family tree or horizontal pedigree chart using a spreadsheet. Multiple designs and formats available, including portrait and landscape orientations. > >URL : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gentutor/chart.html >TITLE : GenTutor FAMILY RELATIONSHIP CHART >DESCRIPTION : Download this online Family Relationships Chart. Identify the relationship between two individuals in your family tree. > orms and England research guides: >URL : http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/RG/frameset_rhelps.asp?Page=./research/Titlee/Titlee.asp&ActiveTab=Title >TITLE : FamilySearch Research Guidance - Document Types >DESCRIPTION : Free forms to print from the FamilySearch Internet Genealogy Service. > See also http://tinyurl.com/3ff3voa in case the above URL splits. Some sites I found myself: Analysis sheet, Research checklist, Research Journal, Census Summary, Correspondence log, and lots of other useful forms from the Wakefield FHS. http://www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk/Forms%20&%20Charts.htm Record sheets from the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/familyhistory/get_started/record_sheets.shtml Free downloads from the Lancashire Family History and Heraldry Society: http://www.lfhhs.org.uk/download/index.htm Family History Hunting Pack: http://www.staffs.ac.uk/schools/humanities_and_soc_sciences/census/freeform.htm Hope this are useful to someone! Lynne

From Cyndi's List: >URL : http://www.byub.org/ancestors/charts/ >TITLE : Ancestors: Charts & Records >DESCRIPTION : From the television program on PBS. Includes a Pedigree Chart, Family Group Record, 2nd Page Family Group Record, Timeline Page, Research Log, Family and Home Information Sources Checklist, and Child's Pedigree Chart. > all free! Lynne

There was a Pleasant Grove in Hulme, it was not marked on a map. It was between Chorlton road and  the west side of Upper Moss Lane, south of Stretford road and was in the area that was west of the end of Warde street. There were several small places in this area that were not named on a map. but a local directory mentions its name. Kind regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- > From: Zaffox Pty Ltd <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: > Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 4:40:59 AM > There is no Pleasant Gorve but there may be another section for Hulme you > need togo exploring. <snipped>

I have forgotten, who was it that was looking for information on Pleasant Grove's location in Hulme? Regards Mike Morris Toronto Canada

Hi Lsters; I am researching William Henry Chell Lowe, on the 1891 census William is not living at home with his parents, I have found a William Lowe at the Swinton Industrial School, which is a possible match as William in later years was a Gun Borer, which is a big move from his humble beginnings, living in the industrial dwellings at Greengate. my question is, is there a way of finding any information from Swinton school to confirm if it is the same William? Regards Kevin

Then (if you're trying to locate the exact address) there is the annoying possibility that the house has been re-numbered, even if you are sure of the road - I don't know how common this is, but my own house (in Manchester) had an even number in the deeds when it was built in the 1920s, and the street was then re-numbered (by the Council) during the early 1940s, so that it now has an odd number! So again, the Council would seem to be worth a try. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pearson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Location in Manchester The problem is that there is / has been more than one High Street - hence my earlier suggestion to ask the Council. I have fallen down this hole previously with, for example, Gray Street. (There is, for example, a Gray Street today, but it's a mile or two from the now non-existent Gray Street where my ancestors lived.) --- On Sun, 31/7/11, mp.buckley <[email protected]> wrote: High street is off Market street Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:59 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Location in Manchester > Hello > > If a birth certificate in the 1930s in Manchester says "42 High Street", > registration district Manchester South and sub-district Manchester > Central, > can someone please give me a clue/map reference as to where this could > be, > both then and now? > > Thanks > > Carol > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message This email was scanned by VIPRE version 4.0.4194 when it was sent, using definitions version 10016

The problem is that there is / has been more than one High Street - hence my earlier suggestion to ask the Council.  I have fallen down this hole previously with, for example, Gray Street.  (There is, for example, a Gray Street today, but it's a mile or two from the now non-existent Gray Street where my ancestors lived.) --- On Sun, 31/7/11, mp.buckley <[email protected]> wrote: High street is off Market street Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:59 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Location in Manchester > Hello > > If a birth certificate in the 1930s in Manchester says  "42 High  Street", > registration district Manchester South and sub-district Manchester > Central, > can someone please give me a clue/map reference as to where this could > be, > both then and now? > > Thanks > > Carol > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message     ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

High street is off Market street Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:59 PM Subject: [ENG-MAN] Location in Manchester > Hello > > If a birth certificate in the 1930s in Manchester says "42 High Street", > registration district Manchester South and sub-district Manchester > Central, > can someone please give me a clue/map reference as to where this could > be, > both then and now? > > Thanks > > Carol > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hathergage Road swimming baths in Chorlton on Medlock used to be known as High Street baths. Regards Geoff Barlow

Why not e-mail the registrars department in Manchester City Council and ask them to help. [email protected] The Council should also be able to help you out with road name changes (try the planning department) John    --- On Sun, 31/7/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ENG-MAN] Location in Manchester To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, 31 July, 2011, 8:03 Thanks, Mike, No I don't have a baptismal record.  The child was adopted a few  months after birth so I doubt was baptised in the area.  And the mother  gave birth at the address I stated, although she didn't normally live in the  Manchester area.  I rather think I may not be able to find out where this  42 High Street was as I don't have a district other than the sub-registration  district of Manchester Central, but thought I would give it a try.   I  will also look for the map you suggested. Thanks again Carol  In a message dated 31/07/2011 00:17:06 GMT Daylight Time,  [email protected] writes: There is  a High street running north from Market street into Shudehill. Its not far  from Manchester cathedral or Picadilly . and its central Manchester. I have  saved you this map section if you feel it might help. Do you have a  baptismal  record ? this would show a church. Regards Mike  Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- >  From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To:  [email protected] > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, July 30,  2011 2:59:19 PM > If a birth certificate in the 1930s in Manchester  says  "42 High  > Street", registration district Manchester  South and sub-district Manchester  Central, > can someone please  give me a clue/map reference as to where this could  be,  <snip> ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ PLEASE and THANK YOU --  Don't cost a thing and mean so  much. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To  unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to  [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the  quotes in the subject and the body of the  message     ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ PLEASE and THANK YOU -- Don't cost a thing and mean so much. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message