To all who replied to my original query today; Thank you. The Father on Alan's marriage certificate is shown on as William Alan McWILLIAM a seafarer. There is no place of birth on Alan's death certificate. Anecdotally (from my Mother since deceased) Alan was an orphan, and he came from somewhere in Ireland. I wonder if he became an orphan in Ireland whether he was brought by the church to Liverpool and confirmed as a Catholic when his origins may have been Protestant? Would that mean that he would never have been baptised as a catholic? Presbyterian would certainly be a possibility then. I have subscriptions to both Ancestry and Irish census records, but have been unable to find any coherent references to Alan or his Father. Joannis Baker is not a name which has ever been mentioned as connected with any member of the family. Many listers have said that this would be John Baker. Is that a translation or a presumed fact? Was Sacred Heart church in Hall Lane, Kensington the only one in Liverpool that bore that name? As usual, there are more questions than answers, and any further help will be equally appreciated. David

David The Catholic Church used Latin in its registers, and Joannis is Latin for John. And when dealing with Latin, you have to take into account the case and gender, something which is to great extent unknown these days as grammar is often no longer taught in schools. Thus: "Joannes filius Joannis" is "John son of John". The former being the nominative case and the latter being the genitive (possessive) case. ----- Original Message ----- From: David McWilliam To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 3:11 AM Subject: [ENG-LIV] Catholic Confirmation - Alan McWilliam Joannis Baker is not a name which has ever been mentioned as connected with any member of the family. Many listers have said that this would be John Baker. Is that a translation or a presumed fact? David