Anthony, Thank you for your reply. I can find no record of the birth of the children either with the name Lewis or Clarke. A late 1860 marriage (if there was one) and a claim of being widowed in 1890/91. I was not clear about this. I should have said that the earliest she could have married was 1864 just after she was witness at her brother's wedding which implies a marriage sometime between 1864 and 1871. That is if her children were born in wedlock. This can be refined further if she was a widow in 1891 and if she had had 23 years of marriage. This would imply her 'husband' died between 1887 and 1891. David -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Antony Marr Sent: 18 August 2012 16:01 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Brick wall - looking for suggestions David Have you obtained birth certificates for any of her children born in the 1870s ...to see who is named as the father (and also will give an address for her ) ? Also the 1911 census - the "marriage lasted" entry of 23 years would imply a marriage in 1888 - long after the children were born. It may be she has entered the length her marriage lasted i.e. at the time she was widowed - so maybe a marriage in the late 1860s, and husband died just before 1891 (when she is shown as a widow). Antony -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Railton Sent: 18 August 2012 15:22 To: [email protected] Subject: [ENG-LIV] Brick wall - looking for suggestions Mary Fletcher CLARKE was born at Runcorn in 1847. She was of a Liverpool family - her father was temporarily working there at that time. She can be found in Liverpool in the 1851 and the 1861 census living with her parents. The last record I have of her as a single woman was in 1864 when she was witness to her brother's wedding in Liverpool. I next find her in the 1881 census living at Garden Lane, Everton. She is shown as Mary F Lewis and described as married and 'wife'. With her are her 3 children: Harry Lewis b1871, Mabel Sara Lewis born 1873 and Mary Lewis born 1880. There is a Mary Lewis of about the right age living in Liverpool as a lodger. She is described as an unmarried seamstress. I have no reason to suppose it is her but if it was it would not take my search any further. In the 1891 census she is living with her children at Lower Bebington and is described as a widow. In 1901 she is living with her son in Wallasey. In 1911 she is with her daughter in Peterborough. The 1911 census states that she had married 23 years previously which implies about 1868. Mary died at Wallasey in 1935. Her death certificate describes her as the widow of Henry Charles Lewis, a cotton broker. I cannot find any reference to Charles in the census and I can't find a record of his birth or death. I also can't find a record of a marriage of their marriage. >From the time of her supposed marriage she seems to have adequate >finances and described herself of independent means; this cannot have come from her parents. Also, apart from the times she was living with her children she was living in and owning what would probably be described as middle class homes. I think that the most likely explanation is that she had relationship outside of marriage with someone who was able to adequately support her and her children. Quite possibly the name of the father of her children was not Lewis. If he supported her but would not marry her I would have thought that he would not want her to use his name. I have come to a full stop on this and am looking for any suggestions anyone may have as to how to pursue this further. I have found a number of descendants of Mary but so far I have only managed to make contact with one of them. This person has not yet been forthcoming with information and I doubt that they would know who 'Mr Lewis' was. There is no probate documentation for Mary. David Railton ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message