Dear listers, I hope someone will be able to help with what has been a brick wall in my research for over ten years! I am searching for clues as to the whereabouts (and anything else) of my grandmother Elsie Green (b 30.9.1901) and her mother Ann(ie) Jane GREEN nee Gaskell (b 1876) between 1911 (when I have them on the census) and 1927, when my grandmother married from an address in Egremont, Birkenhead (Empress Drive). (I have the marriage cert). This is what little I know so far - anything anyone can add, or any thoughts or suggestions, most gratefully received: I know from my grandmother's own account of things that the family was living in economically-deprived circumstances when they were in Walton in 1911 (and prior to that), and that at some time (I think sometime between 1911 and 1915, not necessarily for the whole of that time) Elsie lived for a while with her aunt Ada GASKELL (b 1877), a dressmaker in a Liverpool department store. Elsie returned to her mother (Annie)'s care before Ada married in 1915. By this time Elsie would have been rising 14. Again by her own account, Elsie worked in a munitions factory during much of WWI before changing jobs in 1918 to become a telephonist. I have documentary corroboration that she worked as a telephonist in Liverpool from 1918 until she married in 1925, in Egremont, Birkenhead. As she used to say that she 'came from' Wallasey (despite her childhood in Liverpool), I presume that she must have lived in Wallasey / Egremont for at least part of this time. By the time of Elsie's marriage in 1927 her parents had separated and I have found a record of her father living in lodgings in Bootle from 1925 onwards, but I do not know at what point between 1911 and 1925 the separation took place nor where either of Elsie's parents were living from 1911 onwards. Prior to 1911 they moved house very, very frequently so there is no particular reason to suppose that they stayed at Bride St (their address in 1911). Elsie's father Henry Welsby GREEN would have been 42 at the outbreak of WW1, so too old at that point to be called up, but later in the war the age limit was raised to 51, which could have included him. According to a street directory, there was a Mrs Annie Green at 60, Albemarle Rd, Seacombe, Wallasey in 1925 (who wasn't there on the 1911 census), but so far I have found no way of establishing whether or not this was my great grandmother Ann(ie) Jane GREEN, and if so, why my grandmother was married from a different address two years later. I do know that the other person living at the address from which my grandmother was married was an older widow by the name of Annie WOOLLAM, unrelated to our family as far as I know, with whom I am guessing my grandmother was lodging. I also have a reference for one of my grandmother's younger brothers (William GREEN b 1908), dated 1928, which refers to his being a well-established member of a church in Bootle - though it doesn't say for how long he had belonged to that particular congregation, which may be significant. ... and that's it! I have no documentary evidence relating to my great-grandmother Annie GREEN after that 1911 census sighting - she was thought by the family to have died in the Liverpool blitz in 1941 as she was, apparently, living in a street which was flattened and was never heard from again, despite extensive searching. But her death was a presumption rather than a known fact. I don't know the name of the street and there is no death record for her that I can find. Her estranged husband died in 1931 and I know from a family story that she had a 'gentleman friend' some years after being widowed, but I don't know the nature of that friendship. Nor do I know his name. I can find no record of an official second marriage for her but, of course, were she to have assumed his surname without an official marriage then that would make her very, very difficult (impossible?) to track down. But that may not be what happened - it's just one of a number of possibilities which occur to me and which I seem to have no way of following up. Does anyone have any ideas or snippets of information that might help, please? Thank you, Maria

My grandmother Elsie GREEN (later Elsie RICHARDS) had a close friend called Isabel M Magson, who was one of the witnesses (probably the bridesmaid) at my grandparents' marriage in Egremont in 1927. It's quite likely that she may have been a fellow telephonist in the Liverpool telephone exchange. If anyone on this list is related to Isabel, and can tell me anything at all about her, I'd be very grateful as that may help shed light on a period of my grandmother's life about which I can only remember part of what little she told me. Thank you On 30/03/2014 17:50, Maria Haines wrote: > Dear listers, > > I hope someone will be able to help with what has been a brick wall in > my research for over ten years! > > I am searching for clues as to the whereabouts (and anything else) of my > grandmother Elsie Green (b 30.9.1901) and her mother Ann(ie) Jane GREEN > nee Gaskell (b 1876) between 1911 (when I have them on the census) and > 1927, when my grandmother married from an address in Egremont, > Birkenhead (Empress Drive). (I have the marriage cert). This is what > little I know so far - anything anyone can add, or any thoughts or > suggestions, most gratefully received: > > I know from my grandmother's own account of things that the family was > living in economically-deprived circumstances when they were in Walton > in 1911 (and prior to that), and that at some time (I think sometime > between 1911 and 1915, not necessarily for the whole of that time) Elsie > lived for a while with her aunt Ada GASKELL (b 1877), a dressmaker in a > Liverpool department store. Elsie returned to her mother (Annie)'s care > before Ada married in 1915. By this time Elsie would have been rising 14. > > Again by her own account, Elsie worked in a munitions factory during > much of WWI before changing jobs in 1918 to become a telephonist. I have > documentary corroboration that she worked as a telephonist in Liverpool > from 1918 until she married in 1925, in Egremont, Birkenhead. As she > used to say that she 'came from' Wallasey (despite her childhood in > Liverpool), I presume that she must have lived in Wallasey / Egremont > for at least part of this time. > > By the time of Elsie's marriage in 1927 her parents had separated and I > have found a record of her father living in lodgings in Bootle from 1925 > onwards, but I do not know at what point between 1911 and 1925 the > separation took place nor where either of Elsie's parents were living > from 1911 onwards. Prior to 1911 they moved house very, very frequently > so there is no particular reason to suppose that they stayed at Bride St > (their address in 1911). > > Elsie's father Henry Welsby GREEN would have been 42 at the outbreak of > WW1, so too old at that point to be called up, but later in the war the > age limit was raised to 51, which could have included him. > > > According to a street directory, there was a Mrs Annie Green at 60, > Albemarle Rd, Seacombe, Wallasey in 1925 (who wasn't there on the 1911 > census), but so far I have found no way of establishing whether or not > this was my great grandmother Ann(ie) Jane GREEN, and if so, why my > grandmother was married from a different address two years later. I do > know that the other person living at the address from which my > grandmother was married was an older widow by the name of Annie WOOLLAM, > unrelated to our family as far as I know, with whom I am guessing my > grandmother was lodging. > > I also have a reference for one of my grandmother's younger brothers > (William GREEN b 1908), dated 1928, which refers to his being a > well-established member of a church in Bootle - though it doesn't say > for how long he had belonged to that particular congregation, which may > be significant. > > ... and that's it! I have no documentary evidence relating to my > great-grandmother Annie GREEN after that 1911 census sighting - she was > thought by the family to have died in the Liverpool blitz in 1941 as she > was, apparently, living in a street which was flattened and was never > heard from again, despite extensive searching. But her death was a > presumption rather than a known fact. I don't know the name of the > street and there is no death record for her that I can find. Her > estranged husband died in 1931 and I know from a family story that she > had a 'gentleman friend' some years after being widowed, but I don't > know the nature of that friendship. Nor do I know his name. I can find > no record of an official second marriage for her but, of course, were > she to have assumed his surname without an official marriage then that > would make her very, very difficult (impossible?) to track down. But > that may not be what happened - it's just one of a number of > possibilities which occur to me and which I seem to have no way of > following up. > > Does anyone have any ideas or snippets of information that might help, > please? > > Thank you, > > Maria > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >