Hi Liz, No one has replied. May be it is one of those ones that's in the too hard basket. I did find a marriage for a John Mc to a Catherine ordered the cert. But being an English cert. didn't tell me anything I didn't know. Ages were right, father and occupation was right so he married there as well. What I really want to do is try to prove that John on the 1851 census and John in Aussie are the same person. I am sure they are but until I can find the wife and children in England some where and John leaving and arriving in Aussie I can't say for sure they are the same person. The wife on the 1851 census is Irish and wondered if she and the children went back to Ireland. But then why does John wait 20 years before he marries Alice Garland here in NZ? My theory is he was Catholic. Obviously he didn't mind living with another woman but his faith strong enough not to marry her. Then 20 years on how did he know his first wife may have died? Did one of his children keep in touch with him some how? Perhaps a family member was keeping him informed. In the Aussie papers I have found the brother to Alice Garland. 1851 he and four other seaman jumped ship. An order for their arrest was put out. Trouble is the papers only mention Peter Garland not the names of the other seaman. My theory for not being able to find John McD on any passenger lists is he worked his way out on a ship as a sailmaker. His occupation in England was a tailor. Easy to change from a tailor to a sailmaker to get to the other side of the world. I wondered if John McD was one of the other seaman that jumped ship with Peter Garland and that is how John met Alice in Aussie. The ship they jumped from was the Montgomery. The order in the papers were 1851. Alice Garland didn't arrive in Aussie until 1854 on the ship the Admiral Boxer which left Liverpool 1854 arrived Melbourne 1854. She and her sister put adds in the Argus papers looking for their brother Peter. I would love to try and find the wife and children either in England or somewhere. Regards Sue PS. We had some lovely spring days. Today snow down to 400 metres and expecting down to 200 tomorrow. Back to wearing winter jerseys and heaters all on full blast. Sue, Have you ever had an answer to your message below from June? Wondering if you are still searching. Liz -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sue Greene Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:54 AM To: ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LIV] Deserted wife and children Birkenhead. On the 1851 census I have John McDavitt and family living in Birkenhead. By 1854/55 John is in Australia without his wife or children. My question is if John deserted his wife and children in England there is a good chance they may have ended up in a poor house. What is the nearest poor house to Birkenhead and if they did end up there is there any way I can get a search done of the records? The wife Catherine and the three boys James, John & Daniel are not on any other census records. Believe me I have tried everything. I have also searched the marriage microfiche in case she re-married. I have also checked deaths in Australia for them. Nothing so am sure John jumped on board ship and left her and the children. Though I have not been able to find any passenger lists of John arriving in Australia. In Australia he meets Alice Garland and their first child is born 1856. That family left Australia for New Zealand around 1863. Interesting that John does not marry the second wife in New Zealand until almost 20 years after the first born child in Australia. Also interesting is the boys born in Australia have the same Chr. Names as those he may have left behind in England. We wondered if he waited until he could confirm the first wife was dead. Though I have not been able to find a death for her either. Hope someone can answer my questions. Regards Sue Greene in a freezing New Zealand.

Hello Sue, Your posting initially caught my eye because it was so similar to the story of my 2x great grandmother. Eliza Boardman was b. 1841 in Liverpool and had my great grandmother, Margaret in 1862. The father on the birth certificate shows as Patrick Healey. I found a marriage certificate in 1863 for them so it was actually over a year later after the birth of Margaret that her parents married. I assumed that it was a religious issue as Eliza was CofE and I would strongly imagine that Patrick was Catholic. Anyway, they had another child, John Henry in 1871 and a third, Frederick William in 1873. Curiously, I never see Patrick on any census returns living with the family. Eliza is always shown with her children living with her parents. On the birth certificates of the children, Patrick's occupation is shown as baker. In 1879, Margaret marries and her marriage certificate states that her father Patrick is deceased and that he was a ship's cook. She leaves England a couple of years later with her husband and settles in America. The 1881 census finds Eliza again living with her 2 boys in her parents' home. It shows her as married, but no Patrick in sight. In 1889, Eliza's parents both die and she then leaves England for Australia. On the passage ticket, it shows a William Samuel Burgess, Eliza and her sons, John Henry and Frederick William - all with the last name Burgess. Now all their lives, the boys had the surname Healey, but now that they're traveling to Australia, suddenly their name is Burgess. Nine years later (1898) Eliza and William married privately at a chapel. Eliza put down that she was widowed in 1896. All this while, she and her sons were living with the name Burgess. Only by accident did their descendants find out their name was actually Healey. Evidently Eliza must have found out that her husband, Patrick died back in England and then she married Burgess. And back in 1879, when my great grandmother married, she put that her father was deceased, but I believe she was told that by her mother and that he was really alive until about 1896 when Eliza stated she became widowed. Sorry to give you the whole story, but it reminds me so much of yours. I don't know if you have all the death certificates for the people you are searching for, but I know in Australia they give a lot of information. I found out that Eliza's boys thought she married Burgess way back in England. She must have told them all that their real father was Burgess and no one questioned it. For some reason, she kept them all away from Patrick or maybe he just stayed away. Good luck, Liz -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sue Greene Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:25 AM To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Deserted wife and children Birkenhead. Hi Liz, No one has replied. May be it is one of those ones that's in the too hard basket. I did find a marriage for a John Mc to a Catherine ordered the cert. But being an English cert. didn't tell me anything I didn't know. Ages were right, father and occupation was right so he married there as well. What I really want to do is try to prove that John on the 1851 census and John in Aussie are the same person. I am sure they are but until I can find the wife and children in England some where and John leaving and arriving in Aussie I can't say for sure they are the same person. The wife on the 1851 census is Irish and wondered if she and the children went back to Ireland. But then why does John wait 20 years before he marries Alice Garland here in NZ? My theory is he was Catholic. Obviously he didn't mind living with another woman but his faith strong enough not to marry her. Then 20 years on how did he know his first wife may have died? Did one of his children keep in touch with him some how? Perhaps a family member was keeping him informed. In the Aussie papers I have found the brother to Alice Garland. 1851 he and four other seaman jumped ship. An order for their arrest was put out. Trouble is the papers only mention Peter Garland not the names of the other seaman. My theory for not being able to find John McD on any passenger lists is he worked his way out on a ship as a sailmaker. His occupation in England was a tailor. Easy to change from a tailor to a sailmaker to get to the other side of the world. I wondered if John McD was one of the other seaman that jumped ship with Peter Garland and that is how John met Alice in Aussie. The ship they jumped from was the Montgomery. The order in the papers were 1851. Alice Garland didn't arrive in Aussie until 1854 on the ship the Admiral Boxer which left Liverpool 1854 arrived Melbourne 1854. She and her sister put adds in the Argus papers looking for their brother Peter. I would love to try and find the wife and children either in England or somewhere. Regards Sue PS. We had some lovely spring days. Today snow down to 400 metres and expecting down to 200 tomorrow. Back to wearing winter jerseys and heaters all on full blast. Sue, Have you ever had an answer to your message below from June? Wondering if you are still searching. Liz -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sue Greene Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:54 AM To: ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LIV] Deserted wife and children Birkenhead. On the 1851 census I have John McDavitt and family living in Birkenhead. By 1854/55 John is in Australia without his wife or children. My question is if John deserted his wife and children in England there is a good chance they may have ended up in a poor house. What is the nearest poor house to Birkenhead and if they did end up there is there any way I can get a search done of the records? The wife Catherine and the three boys James, John & Daniel are not on any other census records. Believe me I have tried everything. I have also searched the marriage microfiche in case she re-married. I have also checked deaths in Australia for them. Nothing so am sure John jumped on board ship and left her and the children. Though I have not been able to find any passenger lists of John arriving in Australia. In Australia he meets Alice Garland and their first child is born 1856. That family left Australia for New Zealand around 1863. Interesting that John does not marry the second wife in New Zealand until almost 20 years after the first born child in Australia. Also interesting is the boys born in Australia have the same Chr. Names as those he may have left behind in England. We wondered if he waited until he could confirm the first wife was dead. Though I have not been able to find a death for her either. Hope someone can answer my questions. Regards Sue Greene in a freezing New Zealand. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message