Dear Maria, My goodness, that was quick - I only sent it a minute ago. It's nice to hear from you again Thank you for your reply. Best wishes, Nora -----Original Message----- From: Maria Haines Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 11:45 AM To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Liverpool Mothers Hello Nora, A Simnel cake is a fruit cake (a bit like a Christmas cake but made for Easter), with a layer of marzipan in the middle. Maria On 31/03/2014 01:40, Nora Kevan wrote: > Dear Lynne and Sally. Thank you for your kind words. > > When we emigrated to Australia we were sponsored by the aunts mentioned > in my story. They both got married late in life and both lived to their > 90s. , Like me, they both lost their sight in old age. One of them Martha > lived to be 93 and almost till the day she died she would write write her > memories down for me in Texta crayons. > She remembers her mother telling her many details of her life. > One was that my grandmother Sarah told her she remembered her mother Ellen > Guy walking with her and her five sisters across the fields from Virginia > St. Bootle to visit their grandmother Mary Ann Guy nee Wilcock at > Lark Hill Lane Mansions where she and her husband were caretaker and > gardener. Ellen used to bake a Simmel Cake and the little girls would pick > wild flowers along the way to give to their grandmother. This would be in > the 1870s as Mary Ann Wilcock died in 1879 and her husband James Guy in > 1884. > > By the way does anyone know what a Simmel cake is? My aunt thought it was > a > spicy cake with a layer of marzipan on top. > > Regards, Nora. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynne > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 8:41 AM > To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Liverpool Mothers > > Oh, Nora, you did make me cry! > > Thanks for sharing that very touching story. > > Kind regards, > Lynne > > > Nora Kevan <kevanna@tadaust.org.au> wrote: >> >> >> I hope my contribution is not considered too long. >> >> I remember my paternal grandmother as a little woman who was a bit absent >> minded. She would look for her glasses until someone noticed she had >> tipped >> them up onto the top of her head. I lived with her and my grandfather and >> two unmarried aunts from the age of 7 when my mother died until 14 when >> my >> father married again >> .. She wasn’t a very good cook ,and I was always glad when one of the >> aunts >> did the cooking But she was a wonderful organiser. All her children had >> household chores, even the boys. >> >> Her name was Sarah Allerton, born 16 Jun 1871 , the youngest of six >> daughters of James Allerton and Ellen Guy. She was only six months old >> when >> her father died. On 31 Mar 1891 She married Richard Edwards b. 23 Jan >> 1870 >> at St. Marys, Walton on the Hill. They had nine children between 1891 >> and >> 1911. She died 22 Nov 1944. >> > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi Lynn, Thanks for the sympathy, I am researching my Evans family from Wales/Liverpool and Jones from Bristol and where ever else :-) Dianne, My grandfather's father was an Edward born in Wrexham, and lived with his family in Toxteth Park area also. I know nothing of my Gt. Grandfathers sibblings. I know there were a lot of Welsh went to Liverpool, but boy are they difficult to find. Although, I must say over the years I have traced all but two of my grandfather's brothers, still looking. I was priviledged to have visited UK last August/October and spent much of my time in Liverpool area where they lived. Crosby Library were such a great help as the family lived in the Bootle area for some time. I was extremely lucky to have met up with some of my second cousins with whom I made contact prior to leaving, they lived in the Bootle area still and along with some from Manchester. The liverpudlians did not know about the Manchester cousins and vise versa. We had a great time together, Also visited Wrexham but to no avail. Still working on it all and will put something together here for some help soon. Barbara --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Dear Eliza Thank you for your kind words. My mother's mother was quite different. All I remember of her was a rather stout lady with dark hair drawn back in a bun. She took care of me when my mother was in hospital with TB and my father , a steward away at sea. I remember sitting on her ample lap by the gas fire in her bedroom. I must have had some childish ailment hence the extravagance of a gas fire lit in a bedroom! When my mother died in 1930 my father took me away to live with his parents and although they lived in adjoining streets I was forbidden to visit them. I did not know that this was because both my mother's parents also had TB and another daughter had died of it too. I used to sneak round to see my other grandmother on the way home from school but this made me late home and as I was a truthful child I always said where I had been when asked, (and was scolded., . I was in hospital with diphtheria when I was about 10 and when I came out my grandma had disappeared. All my Edwards relations said they did not know where she had gone. I found out later that her husband (my grandfather)had died while I was away. I still do not know what happened to her. There is no record of her death certificate. She was born Agnes Kennedy and her father Andrew was born in Annaclone, Co Down Ireland and another great grandchild I found said His father used to visit the farm in Ireland so perhaps that is where she went. I wish I had been able to keep in touch with her My mother had two brothers but they both left home and I doubt if they ever kept in touch with their parents as I had never heard of them until recently. So there were no flowers for my grandmother Birchall on Mothering Sunday. Regards, Nora Kevan -----Original Message----- From: ElizaR Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 2:43 AM To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Liverpool Mothers What a very touching story. Thank you for sharing. -----Original Message----- From: Nora Kevan Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:52 AM To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LIV] Liverpool Mothers I hope my contribution is not considered too long. I remember my paternal grandmother as a little woman who was a bit absent minded. She would look for her glasses until someone noticed she had tipped them up onto the top of her head. I lived with her and my grandfather and two unmarried aunts from the age of 7 when my mother died until 14 when my father married again .. She wasn’t a very good cook ,and I was always glad when one of the aunts did the cooking But she was a wonderful organiser. All her children had household chores, even the boys. Her name was Sarah Allerton, born 16 Jun 1871 , the youngest of six daughters of James Allerton and Ellen Guy. She was only six months old when her father died. On 31 Mar 1891 She married Richard Edwards b. 23 Jan 1870 at St. Marys, Walton on the Hill. They had nine children between 1891 and 1911. She died 22 Nov 1944. Although just a small woman with an elementary school education she was well respected and obeyed by all her family. I always think of her as a woman ahead of her time. When she left school. , she had a position as cashier at Criers a high class grocers in Bootle. She met Richard when he was employed as a delivery van driver with the same firm and married him secretly a few months before her 21 birthday. Her widowed mother was a formidable person so Richard and she went back to their respective homes and did not own up to their marriage for six months. She was intelligent and of an independent mind. When women got the vote she made no secret of the fact that she would vote Labour in opposition to her husband who was a staunch Conservative and at different times of her life she was Secretary, Treasurer and President of the local branch of the Women’s Cooperative Movement. In the 1930s she was a Delegate to a couple of International Cooperative Conferences. She was also prominent in local church organisations . Having had to help her mother search for bring home and nurse an alcoholic step-father, she made a rule that no alcohol was allowed in her house. Although in later life , when visiting her married daughters she would turn a blind eye to a small amount of beer and a bottle of port for the ladies at Xmas and the New Year. Just before she died my aunt wrote telling me of her illness and I got leave from the Waaf to visit her. It was a long cross country journey from a remote airfield in Cornwall to an even more remote village in Denbighshire and no one knew I was coming. When after travelling all night I knocked on the cottage door my aunt was startled to see me She said my grandmother had died 20 minutes ago, (at about the time I had got off the bus) and the last thing she had said was “Nora’s coming” I am rather a sceptic about psychic matters but I like to think that her last thought was of me. Nora Kevan --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Dear Lynne and Sally. Thank you for your kind words. When we emigrated to Australia we were sponsored by the aunts mentioned in my story. They both got married late in life and both lived to their 90s. , Like me, they both lost their sight in old age. One of them Martha lived to be 93 and almost till the day she died she would write write her memories down for me in Texta crayons. She remembers her mother telling her many details of her life. One was that my grandmother Sarah told her she remembered her mother Ellen Guy walking with her and her five sisters across the fields from Virginia St. Bootle to visit their grandmother Mary Ann Guy nee Wilcock at Lark Hill Lane Mansions where she and her husband were caretaker and gardener. Ellen used to bake a Simmel Cake and the little girls would pick wild flowers along the way to give to their grandmother. This would be in the 1870s as Mary Ann Wilcock died in 1879 and her husband James Guy in 1884. By the way does anyone know what a Simmel cake is? My aunt thought it was a spicy cake with a layer of marzipan on top. Regards, Nora. -----Original Message----- From: Lynne Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 8:41 AM To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Liverpool Mothers Oh, Nora, you did make me cry! Thanks for sharing that very touching story. Kind regards, Lynne Nora Kevan <kevanna@tadaust.org.au> wrote: > > > >I hope my contribution is not considered too long. > >I remember my paternal grandmother as a little woman who was a bit absent >minded. She would look for her glasses until someone noticed she had tipped >them up onto the top of her head. I lived with her and my grandfather and >two unmarried aunts from the age of 7 when my mother died until 14 when my >father married again >.. She wasn’t a very good cook ,and I was always glad when one of the aunts >did the cooking But she was a wonderful organiser. All her children had >household chores, even the boys. > >Her name was Sarah Allerton, born 16 Jun 1871 , the youngest of six >daughters of James Allerton and Ellen Guy. She was only six months old when >her father died. On 31 Mar 1891 She married Richard Edwards b. 23 Jan 1870 >at St. Marys, Walton on the Hill. They had nine children between 1891 and >1911. She died 22 Nov 1944. > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

How attitudes have changed .... My great grandmother Margaret was born in Great George Street Liverpool in 1862. Her parents worked from home as Window blind makers .She lost both parents to chronic lung diseases before She was 10 years old. For a while her 17 year sister Annie tried to keep the family together and Then Margaret and 11 year old Robina were placed in the care of the Bluecoats school. Tragically Robina died there from a horrible louse borne disease called Relapsing fever. >From Bluecoats Margaret was placed as a housemaid in one of Cheshire's Great houses. She attracted the attention of one of the young masters there and became Pregnant with my grandad. Shortly after his birth in 1881 my grandad was placed in a foster family Whose name he eventually took. Margaret never married, she went back to live with Annie and they carried On the family trade in Birkenhead. I don't believe she ever had any more contact with my grandad, and on the 1911 census didn't acknowledge that she had a child - such was the shame of The unmarried mother and her child. My grandad's family only whispered of his birth situation, they were so deeply ashamed, it took me five years of Internet searching to discover Margaret's name and her life. I believe she died in the 1930s after living her life within a half hours journey of the son she never knew.....

Dear Listers, As the Evans surname has come up, I thought it a good time to ask about one of my families. Thomas Evans married Margaret Sloane in Chester in 1833; he was born in Denbighshire, she in Liverpool. In 1851 they were living at 18 St Mary's Terrace, Kent Street, Liverpool. Thomas was a 44-year-old Warehouseman, Margaret "45" (actually 44) with their children Margaret, 18, Mary, 16, Ellen 6, Thomas, 19 months I have Margaret's family but know nothing about Thomas Evans' I would like to know if anyone else has connections to this family. Bill G-J

Hello, I've been posting about my  LEWIS / CORKILL great-grandparents for over 10 yrs., and used to post many times.    So, there is information in the archives.    I'll just try to briefly tell my great-grandmother's story. In 1852,  Evan CORKILL born ~1827 IOM  married Elizabeth QUAYLE from Whitehaven, Cumberland.    They seem to have initially lived in both Whitehaven and Liverpool.    Between 1852 and 1872, they had 7 children.    They had 2 sons, and then in 1860 a daughter, Mary Elizabeth.    During the 1860's they had 4 more children, so a total of 7.    Unfortunately, Mrs. CORKILL died in ~1872.    Since Evan was a mariner and always out to sea, most of the children went to live with their Uncle John CORKILL, also in Liverpool.    When the Liverpool Sheltering Homes opened in 1873, the 5 younger children were placed there.    They were put on ships to head to Nova Scotia in 1874 and 1875.    Mary was the oldest, and the youngest were little boys, 5 and 3. At the "Home"  Mary made friends with a teen-age boy who had also been placed there in 1873.    He was John "Stanley" LEWIS, born 1859 in Liverpool.    He was put on a ship to Nova Scotia in 1874, but Mary didn't leave until 1875.   The arrived in Halifax but found each other, and married in Truro in 1879.   They had their first child there and then, while pregnant, traveled to Boston.   They settled in nearby Stoneham, MA, where they continued to have children - to a total of .13.        "Stanley" was a newspaper man, and opened up a printing shop, and then started up 2, independent newspapers.    Many of their children worked with him. The children all lived to adulthood, but 2 died unexpectedly after marrying while in their 20's.    Because of my research, I have been able to contact descendants of most of the children.    Most did not know their grandparents' story.    So, I sent each a summary of what I knew. Unfortunately, Stanley and Mary both died of cancer in 1923 and 1924.   So, my father never got to know them, and, of course, I had only some knowledge of my father's uncles and aunts.    I was told, and read, that Stanley was a well-liked man in Stoneham, MA,  from 1881 to 1923.    I haven't been able to hear about the personality of Mary - while here.    The reason she couldn't travel with her siblings to Canada in 1874 is that she had "misbehaved" at the "Home" and the officials wouldn't let her go.    She "pleaded" with them to let her go in 1875. Mary was about 13 when she lost her mother, and she had 4 young siblings, 2 as babies.    So, she probably had to be a substitute mother for a time.    They had lost one brother who had died at Age 10.    And, maybe ~1870, their oldest brother, Edward, had been placed on the Akbar Training Ship.    It seems he somehow made his way to Canada in 1873  (B.C.). As I've said many times,  I've never been able to find out if Evan CORKILL  (1827-1899) remained in contact with his 6 children in Canada.    And, I don't know if he ever saw them again.    And, did his children find out that he had remarried in Liverpool - after they left? I have pictures of "Stanley" and Mary, portraits with their children.   One of the pictures is included on one of the "BHC QUILTS" on display in Canada.   I don't think the  "UK's Child Migrant Scheme"  and in Canada, the "British Home Children" have been mentioned on this List in a long time. Betty                 (near Lowell, MA, USA) (on Lists and Boards for 12+ yrs.;   now an Admin for 11 Lists and 5 Boards) FYI: On the ship with Stanley in 1874 were 3 LEWIS girls.    Since he was an only child, it is assumed the girls were not related to him, and they seem to have not been related to each other.

Hello Nora, A Simnel cake is a fruit cake (a bit like a Christmas cake but made for Easter), with a layer of marzipan in the middle. Maria On 31/03/2014 01:40, Nora Kevan wrote: > Dear Lynne and Sally. Thank you for your kind words. > > When we emigrated to Australia we were sponsored by the aunts mentioned > in my story. They both got married late in life and both lived to their > 90s. , Like me, they both lost their sight in old age. One of them Martha > lived to be 93 and almost till the day she died she would write write her > memories down for me in Texta crayons. > She remembers her mother telling her many details of her life. > One was that my grandmother Sarah told her she remembered her mother Ellen > Guy walking with her and her five sisters across the fields from Virginia > St. Bootle to visit their grandmother Mary Ann Guy nee Wilcock at > Lark Hill Lane Mansions where she and her husband were caretaker and > gardener. Ellen used to bake a Simmel Cake and the little girls would pick > wild flowers along the way to give to their grandmother. This would be in > the 1870s as Mary Ann Wilcock died in 1879 and her husband James Guy in > 1884. > > By the way does anyone know what a Simmel cake is? My aunt thought it was a > spicy cake with a layer of marzipan on top. > > Regards, Nora. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynne > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 8:41 AM > To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Liverpool Mothers > > Oh, Nora, you did make me cry! > > Thanks for sharing that very touching story. > > Kind regards, > Lynne > > > Nora Kevan <kevanna@tadaust.org.au> wrote: >> >> >> I hope my contribution is not considered too long. >> >> I remember my paternal grandmother as a little woman who was a bit absent >> minded. She would look for her glasses until someone noticed she had tipped >> them up onto the top of her head. I lived with her and my grandfather and >> two unmarried aunts from the age of 7 when my mother died until 14 when my >> father married again >> .. She wasn’t a very good cook ,and I was always glad when one of the aunts >> did the cooking But she was a wonderful organiser. All her children had >> household chores, even the boys. >> >> Her name was Sarah Allerton, born 16 Jun 1871 , the youngest of six >> daughters of James Allerton and Ellen Guy. She was only six months old when >> her father died. On 31 Mar 1891 She married Richard Edwards b. 23 Jan 1870 >> at St. Marys, Walton on the Hill. They had nine children between 1891 and >> 1911. She died 22 Nov 1944. >> > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Oh, that is so sad - how on earth did you manage to find out what you now know? Maria On 30/03/2014 23:23, faraway@xtra.co.nz wrote: > How attitudes have changed .... My great grandmother Margaret was born in > Great George Street Liverpool in 1862. Her parents worked from home as > Window blind makers .She lost both parents to chronic lung diseases before > She was 10 years old. > For a while her 17 year sister Annie tried to keep the family together and > Then Margaret and 11 year old Robina were placed in the care of the > Bluecoats school. > Tragically Robina died there from a horrible louse borne disease called > Relapsing fever. > >From Bluecoats Margaret was placed as a housemaid in one of Cheshire's > Great houses. > She attracted the attention of one of the young masters there and became > Pregnant with my grandad. > Shortly after his birth in 1881 my grandad was placed in a foster family > Whose name he eventually took. > Margaret never married, she went back to live with Annie and they carried > On the family trade in Birkenhead. > I don't believe she ever had any more contact with my grandad, and on the > 1911 census didn't acknowledge that she had a child - such was the shame of > The unmarried mother and her child. > My grandad's family only whispered of his birth situation, they were so deeply ashamed, it took me five years of Internet searching to discover Margaret's name and her life. I believe she died in the 1930s after living her life within a half hours journey of the son she never knew..... > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Interesting story. I have a similar and yet much different situation in my family. My great grandmother, Ellen was born 26 Nov 1852 in Haskayne, north of Liverpool. Her mother died in 1865 and her father in 1866. By 1871, she was living in Liverpool and in Jan 1872, she had her first child, Ellen, although she was unmarried. She baptised the child and gave the parents as James and Ellen, James being a labourer. Baby Ellen died in August. In March 1874, she had her second illegitimate child, Elizabeth, and in 1875 her third, James. Both these children were baptised and the parents named as James and Ellen, but now James was a sailor. I suspect it was easier to explain and absent father if he was a sailor. She had three more children in 1877, 1881 and 1883 - all illegitimate. (I don't have baptisms for these children). Ellen doesn't appear on the 1881 census, but is there in 1891 with 4 of her children, and listed as a widow. She misses 1901 but is back in 1911, again as a widow. When she died in 1938, her death certificate also shows her as a widow. So, not everyone had the same approach to illegitimate births. Vern in Ontario, Canada On 30 March 2014 18:23, faraway@xtra.co.nz <faraway@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > How attitudes have changed .... My great grandmother Margaret was born in > Great George Street Liverpool in 1862. Her parents worked from home as > Window blind makers .She lost both parents to chronic lung diseases before > She was 10 years old. > For a while her 17 year sister Annie tried to keep the family together and > Then Margaret and 11 year old Robina were placed in the care of the > Bluecoats school. > Tragically Robina died there from a horrible louse borne disease called > Relapsing fever. > >From Bluecoats Margaret was placed as a housemaid in one of Cheshire's > Great houses. > She attracted the attention of one of the young masters there and became > Pregnant with my grandad. > Shortly after his birth in 1881 my grandad was placed in a foster family > Whose name he eventually took. > Margaret never married, she went back to live with Annie and they carried > On the family trade in Birkenhead. > I don't believe she ever had any more contact with my grandad, and on the > 1911 census didn't acknowledge that she had a child - such was the shame of > The unmarried mother and her child. > My grandad's family only whispered of his birth situation, they were so > deeply ashamed, it took me five years of Internet searching to discover > Margaret's name and her life. I believe she died in the 1930s after living > her life within a half hours journey of the son she never knew..... > >

While it is not Mother's day here in New Zealand, my mother was born in Bootle, Liverpool. She, along with her parents and 4 other sibblings emigrated to NZ in 1923. She never returned to the UK as she died in her early 40's. RIP mum. My grandparents never returned even for a visit either. Only 1 of the sibblings returned during the 2nd WW. I have still much research to do to find my Gt Grandfather's burial place and two of my grandfather's brothers to find. Will put the info together and post soon. Barbara --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

How tragic, reminds me of the movie "Philomena" in a way. -----Original Message----- From: faraway@xtra.co.nz Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 6:23 PM To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LIV] Mothers ... How attitudes have changed How attitudes have changed .... My great grandmother Margaret was born in Great George Street Liverpool in 1862. Her parents worked from home as Window blind makers .She lost both parents to chronic lung diseases before She was 10 years old. For a while her 17 year sister Annie tried to keep the family together and Then Margaret and 11 year old Robina were placed in the care of the Bluecoats school. Tragically Robina died there from a horrible louse borne disease called Relapsing fever. >From Bluecoats Margaret was placed as a housemaid in one of Cheshire's Great houses. She attracted the attention of one of the young masters there and became Pregnant with my grandad. Shortly after his birth in 1881 my grandad was placed in a foster family Whose name he eventually took. Margaret never married, she went back to live with Annie and they carried On the family trade in Birkenhead. I don't believe she ever had any more contact with my grandad, and on the 1911 census didn't acknowledge that she had a child - such was the shame of The unmarried mother and her child. My grandad's family only whispered of his birth situation, they were so deeply ashamed, it took me five years of Internet searching to discover Margaret's name and her life. I believe she died in the 1930s after living her life within a half hours journey of the son she never knew..... ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Barbara Thanks for sharing that with us. I look forward to you posting more. Kind regards, Lynne Barbara McLachlan <barbmcl@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > >While it is not Mother's day here in New Zealand, my mother was born in >Bootle, Liverpool. She, along with her parents and 4 other sibblings >emigrated to NZ in 1923. >She never returned to the UK as she died in her early 40's. RIP mum. >My grandparents never returned even for a visit either. Only 1 of the >sibblings returned during the 2nd WW. > >I have still much research to do to find my Gt Grandfather's burial >place and two of my grandfather's brothers to find. > >Will put the info together and post soon. > >Barbara

Thanks for sharing that, Dianne. My sympathies to you if you're researching the JONES, EVANS, and JOHNSON lines! I've got JONES, too. Kind regards, Lynne Dianne Hughes <bill.di@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > > My grandmother, who I never met, was born in Liverpool grew up in >Tremadoc in North Wales, married in Liverpool and spent the rest of her >life there. Jane was born 1864 in Edgehill her father Edward was a >wheelwright, when she was 5 her mother died and she went to live with >her mother's sister Mary Jones. I have a lovely photo of Jane taken on >her wedding day. Jane Ellen Evans married William Henry Johnson in 1887 >at St Michaels Toxteth. Dad said that if she didn't want her children to >know what she was saying to a neighbour she spoke Welsh. William and >Jane were first cousins, their mothers Anne and Ellinor Hughes were >sisters. I would love to have met Jane as I'm sure there would have been >wonderful stories to tell. >Dianne Hughes >Teesdale Victoria Australia

Thanks for sharing that, Lesley. Kind regards, Lynne LW <daletara@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >Well here goes >May my grandmother Julia (Dixon) Cunningham and ggrandmother Elizabeth >(Hagan) Cunningham (both born and lived their entire lives in Liverpool) >rest in peace. > >I never had the opportunity to meet them but I am sure they would of had >many interesting stories to pass on. > >Lesley >in Oz >

My grandmother Elsie GREEN (later Elsie RICHARDS) had a close friend called Isabel M Magson, who was one of the witnesses (probably the bridesmaid) at my grandparents' marriage in Egremont in 1927. It's quite likely that she may have been a fellow telephonist in the Liverpool telephone exchange. If anyone on this list is related to Isabel, and can tell me anything at all about her, I'd be very grateful as that may help shed light on a period of my grandmother's life about which I can only remember part of what little she told me. Thank you On 30/03/2014 17:50, Maria Haines wrote: > Dear listers, > > I hope someone will be able to help with what has been a brick wall in > my research for over ten years! > > I am searching for clues as to the whereabouts (and anything else) of my > grandmother Elsie Green (b 30.9.1901) and her mother Ann(ie) Jane GREEN > nee Gaskell (b 1876) between 1911 (when I have them on the census) and > 1927, when my grandmother married from an address in Egremont, > Birkenhead (Empress Drive). (I have the marriage cert). This is what > little I know so far - anything anyone can add, or any thoughts or > suggestions, most gratefully received: > > I know from my grandmother's own account of things that the family was > living in economically-deprived circumstances when they were in Walton > in 1911 (and prior to that), and that at some time (I think sometime > between 1911 and 1915, not necessarily for the whole of that time) Elsie > lived for a while with her aunt Ada GASKELL (b 1877), a dressmaker in a > Liverpool department store. Elsie returned to her mother (Annie)'s care > before Ada married in 1915. By this time Elsie would have been rising 14. > > Again by her own account, Elsie worked in a munitions factory during > much of WWI before changing jobs in 1918 to become a telephonist. I have > documentary corroboration that she worked as a telephonist in Liverpool > from 1918 until she married in 1925, in Egremont, Birkenhead. As she > used to say that she 'came from' Wallasey (despite her childhood in > Liverpool), I presume that she must have lived in Wallasey / Egremont > for at least part of this time. > > By the time of Elsie's marriage in 1927 her parents had separated and I > have found a record of her father living in lodgings in Bootle from 1925 > onwards, but I do not know at what point between 1911 and 1925 the > separation took place nor where either of Elsie's parents were living > from 1911 onwards. Prior to 1911 they moved house very, very frequently > so there is no particular reason to suppose that they stayed at Bride St > (their address in 1911). > > Elsie's father Henry Welsby GREEN would have been 42 at the outbreak of > WW1, so too old at that point to be called up, but later in the war the > age limit was raised to 51, which could have included him. > > > According to a street directory, there was a Mrs Annie Green at 60, > Albemarle Rd, Seacombe, Wallasey in 1925 (who wasn't there on the 1911 > census), but so far I have found no way of establishing whether or not > this was my great grandmother Ann(ie) Jane GREEN, and if so, why my > grandmother was married from a different address two years later. I do > know that the other person living at the address from which my > grandmother was married was an older widow by the name of Annie WOOLLAM, > unrelated to our family as far as I know, with whom I am guessing my > grandmother was lodging. > > I also have a reference for one of my grandmother's younger brothers > (William GREEN b 1908), dated 1928, which refers to his being a > well-established member of a church in Bootle - though it doesn't say > for how long he had belonged to that particular congregation, which may > be significant. > > ... and that's it! I have no documentary evidence relating to my > great-grandmother Annie GREEN after that 1911 census sighting - she was > thought by the family to have died in the Liverpool blitz in 1941 as she > was, apparently, living in a street which was flattened and was never > heard from again, despite extensive searching. But her death was a > presumption rather than a known fact. I don't know the name of the > street and there is no death record for her that I can find. Her > estranged husband died in 1931 and I know from a family story that she > had a 'gentleman friend' some years after being widowed, but I don't > know the nature of that friendship. Nor do I know his name. I can find > no record of an official second marriage for her but, of course, were > she to have assumed his surname without an official marriage then that > would make her very, very difficult (impossible?) to track down. But > that may not be what happened - it's just one of a number of > possibilities which occur to me and which I seem to have no way of > following up. > > Does anyone have any ideas or snippets of information that might help, > please? > > Thank you, > > Maria > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I hope my contribution is not considered too long. I remember my paternal grandmother as a little woman who was a bit absent minded. She would look for her glasses until someone noticed she had tipped them up onto the top of her head. I lived with her and my grandfather and two unmarried aunts from the age of 7 when my mother died until 14 when my father married again .. She wasn’t a very good cook ,and I was always glad when one of the aunts did the cooking But she was a wonderful organiser. All her children had household chores, even the boys. Her name was Sarah Allerton, born 16 Jun 1871 , the youngest of six daughters of James Allerton and Ellen Guy. She was only six months old when her father died. On 31 Mar 1891 She married Richard Edwards b. 23 Jan 1870 at St. Marys, Walton on the Hill. They had nine children between 1891 and 1911. She died 22 Nov 1944. Although just a small woman with an elementary school education she was well respected and obeyed by all her family. I always think of her as a woman ahead of her time. When she left school. , she had a position as cashier at Criers a high class grocers in Bootle. She met Richard when he was employed as a delivery van driver with the same firm and married him secretly a few months before her 21 birthday. Her widowed mother was a formidable person so Richard and she went back to their respective homes and did not own up to their marriage for six months. She was intelligent and of an independent mind. When women got the vote she made no secret of the fact that she would vote Labour in opposition to her husband who was a staunch Conservative and at different times of her life she was Secretary, Treasurer and President of the local branch of the Women’s Cooperative Movement. In the 1930s she was a Delegate to a couple of International Cooperative Conferences. She was also prominent in local church organisations . Having had to help her mother search for bring home and nurse an alcoholic step-father, she made a rule that no alcohol was allowed in her house. Although in later life , when visiting her married daughters she would turn a blind eye to a small amount of beer and a bottle of port for the ladies at Xmas and the New Year. Just before she died my aunt wrote telling me of her illness and I got leave from the Waaf to visit her. It was a long cross country journey from a remote airfield in Cornwall to an even more remote village in Denbighshire and no one knew I was coming. When after travelling all night I knocked on the cottage door my aunt was startled to see me She said my grandmother had died 20 minutes ago, (at about the time I had got off the bus) and the last thing she had said was “Nora’s coming” I am rather a sceptic about psychic matters but I like to think that her last thought was of me. Nora Kevan --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Dear listers, I hope someone will be able to help with what has been a brick wall in my research for over ten years! I am searching for clues as to the whereabouts (and anything else) of my grandmother Elsie Green (b 30.9.1901) and her mother Ann(ie) Jane GREEN nee Gaskell (b 1876) between 1911 (when I have them on the census) and 1927, when my grandmother married from an address in Egremont, Birkenhead (Empress Drive). (I have the marriage cert). This is what little I know so far - anything anyone can add, or any thoughts or suggestions, most gratefully received: I know from my grandmother's own account of things that the family was living in economically-deprived circumstances when they were in Walton in 1911 (and prior to that), and that at some time (I think sometime between 1911 and 1915, not necessarily for the whole of that time) Elsie lived for a while with her aunt Ada GASKELL (b 1877), a dressmaker in a Liverpool department store. Elsie returned to her mother (Annie)'s care before Ada married in 1915. By this time Elsie would have been rising 14. Again by her own account, Elsie worked in a munitions factory during much of WWI before changing jobs in 1918 to become a telephonist. I have documentary corroboration that she worked as a telephonist in Liverpool from 1918 until she married in 1925, in Egremont, Birkenhead. As she used to say that she 'came from' Wallasey (despite her childhood in Liverpool), I presume that she must have lived in Wallasey / Egremont for at least part of this time. By the time of Elsie's marriage in 1927 her parents had separated and I have found a record of her father living in lodgings in Bootle from 1925 onwards, but I do not know at what point between 1911 and 1925 the separation took place nor where either of Elsie's parents were living from 1911 onwards. Prior to 1911 they moved house very, very frequently so there is no particular reason to suppose that they stayed at Bride St (their address in 1911). Elsie's father Henry Welsby GREEN would have been 42 at the outbreak of WW1, so too old at that point to be called up, but later in the war the age limit was raised to 51, which could have included him. According to a street directory, there was a Mrs Annie Green at 60, Albemarle Rd, Seacombe, Wallasey in 1925 (who wasn't there on the 1911 census), but so far I have found no way of establishing whether or not this was my great grandmother Ann(ie) Jane GREEN, and if so, why my grandmother was married from a different address two years later. I do know that the other person living at the address from which my grandmother was married was an older widow by the name of Annie WOOLLAM, unrelated to our family as far as I know, with whom I am guessing my grandmother was lodging. I also have a reference for one of my grandmother's younger brothers (William GREEN b 1908), dated 1928, which refers to his being a well-established member of a church in Bootle - though it doesn't say for how long he had belonged to that particular congregation, which may be significant. ... and that's it! I have no documentary evidence relating to my great-grandmother Annie GREEN after that 1911 census sighting - she was thought by the family to have died in the Liverpool blitz in 1941 as she was, apparently, living in a street which was flattened and was never heard from again, despite extensive searching. But her death was a presumption rather than a known fact. I don't know the name of the street and there is no death record for her that I can find. Her estranged husband died in 1931 and I know from a family story that she had a 'gentleman friend' some years after being widowed, but I don't know the nature of that friendship. Nor do I know his name. I can find no record of an official second marriage for her but, of course, were she to have assumed his surname without an official marriage then that would make her very, very difficult (impossible?) to track down. But that may not be what happened - it's just one of a number of possibilities which occur to me and which I seem to have no way of following up. Does anyone have any ideas or snippets of information that might help, please? Thank you, Maria

The Bolton branch of the Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society (MLFHS) (http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/Bolton/) will hold its next meeting at 7.30pm on Wednesday April 2nd. Dr Alan Crosby will be talking about the 1834 Poor Law Reforms: "after 230 years the new system was designed to be a deterrent aimed at making the Workhouse so unpleasant that people would do anything to avoid going there". The talk explains the details of why it gained its evil reputation and how local Lancashire officials did their best to avoid its implementation. The venue as usual is Bolton Cricket Club, Green Lane, BL1 5RH, Farnworth. All are welcome and a Help Desk available for private research afterwards.. Enquiries to Secretary Barbara Owen on 01204 309515.

Oh, Nora, you did make me cry! Thanks for sharing that very touching story. Kind regards, Lynne Nora Kevan <kevanna@tadaust.org.au> wrote: > > > >I hope my contribution is not considered too long. > >I remember my paternal grandmother as a little woman who was a bit absent minded. She would look for her glasses until someone noticed she had tipped them up onto the top of her head. I lived with her and my grandfather and two unmarried aunts from the age of 7 when my mother died until 14 when my father married again >.. She wasn’t a very good cook ,and I was always glad when one of the aunts did the cooking But she was a wonderful organiser. All her children had household chores, even the boys. > >Her name was Sarah Allerton, born 16 Jun 1871 , the youngest of six daughters of James Allerton and Ellen Guy. She was only six months old when her father died. On 31 Mar 1891 She married Richard Edwards b. 23 Jan 1870 at St. Marys, Walton on the Hill. They had nine children between 1891 and 1911. She died 22 Nov 1944. > >Although just a small woman with an elementary school education she was well respected and obeyed by all her family. I always think of her as a woman ahead of her time. When she left school. , she had a position as cashier at Criers a high class grocers in Bootle. She met Richard when he was employed as a delivery van driver with the same firm and married him secretly a few months before her 21 birthday. Her widowed mother was a formidable person so Richard and she went back to their respective homes and did not own up to their marriage for six months. > >She was intelligent and of an independent mind. When women got the vote she made no secret of the fact that she would vote Labour in opposition to her husband who was a staunch Conservative and at different times of her life she was Secretary, Treasurer and President of the local branch of the Women’s Cooperative Movement. In the 1930s she was a Delegate to a couple of International Cooperative Conferences. She was also prominent in local church organisations . > >Having had to help her mother search for bring home and nurse an alcoholic step-father, she made a rule that no alcohol was allowed in her house. Although in later life , when visiting her married daughters she would turn a blind eye to a small amount of beer and a bottle of port for the ladies at Xmas and the New Year. > >Just before she died my aunt wrote telling me of her illness and I got leave from the Waaf to visit her. It was a long cross country journey from a remote airfield in Cornwall to an even more remote village in Denbighshire and no one knew I was coming. When after travelling all night I knocked on the cottage door my aunt was startled to see me She said my grandmother had died 20 minutes ago, (at about the time I had got off the bus) and the last thing she had said was “Nora’s coming” > >I am rather a sceptic about psychic matters but I like to think that her last thought was of me. > >Nora Kevan >