Hi Listers, There is an offer for Find My Past, £1 until end of June. https://www.findmypast.co.uk/payments?vouchercode=WORLDCUP2 Best regards. Jean Flanagan. Liverpool

In reference to travei from Wales to liverpool in recent letters ,my many times Great Grand Father from Holywell married a Hester Barker or Burker in St Nicholas Church Liverpool in Dec 1730 (we have the certificate),they could have travelled by boat and landed at the Pier Head Liverpool,as we think many did from Wales ,Nathanial Maddocks was a Flax Dresser and went back to Wales and possibly Chester for a while . John Maddocks New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 7:00 PM To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: ENG-LIVERPOOL Digest, Vol 9, Issue 117 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Be sure the subject line is pertinent to your message and snip out any text not relevant to your post. Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ List guidelines and useful links: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/EngLiverpool.htm http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/LiverpoolLinks.htm ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Today's Topics: 1. Re: transport 1840s (JOAN ZORN) 2. Re: transport 1840s (JOAN ZORN) 3. Re: G G Grandparents (pameladaly) To contact the ENG-LIVERPOOL list administrator, send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the ENG-LIVERPOOL mailing list, send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text.

However it would take as long if not longer to get from Montgomery to the coast at Aberystwyth as it would to go straight to Liverpool ... Could have sailed the last leg from Flint or Ellesmere Port though If travel was by water the Montgomery/Ellesmere canal would be more likely.  The Llanymynech branch of the Ellesmere canal was completed in 1796 and linked to the Montgomery Canal in 1797. Ellesmere Port got its name as the port for Ellesmere in Shropshire after the canal was built. (previously it was called  Netherpool) There were regular packet boats taking passengers along the canals until superceded by the railways These canals, with the Llangollen, are now together called Shropshire Union Canal Joan ________________________________ From: Marj Bennett <marged36@btopenworld.com> To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, 15 June 2014, 21:19 Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] ENG-LIVERPOOL Digest, Vol 9, Issue 117 As late as the 1920s, my mother's two brothers went from Liverpool to Whitehaven in Cumberland by boat.  Sadly they are all dead to I can't find out any details of what kind of boat it was but it won't have been anything very large! I know it's not Wales, but it shows that people did go to places on various coasts from Liverpool.  And until the 1970s, you could go by boat from Liverpool to Llandudno - what a pity you can't do it now! Marged   In reference to travei from Wales to liverpool in recent letters ,my many   times Great Grand Father from Holywell married a Hester Barker or Burker in   St Nicholas Church Liverpool in Dec 1730 (we have the certificate),they   could have travelled by boat and landed at the Pier Head Liverpool,as we   think many did from Wales ,Nathanial Maddocks was  a Flax Dresser and went   back to Wales and possibly Chester for a while .                                       John Maddocks New Zealand ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3964/7682 - Release Date: 06/15/14 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com  Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No fees!  ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello John Nice to know of someone else who remembers the Full Swing brand in Liverpool. Regarding your request for further information re. the Maddocks family in Holywell I have added the details to my website. My friend Ann Hand (nee Hughes), and husband Barry, live in Rotorua. They emigrated to Australia in 1964 with four small children and a year later moved on to New Zealand. Her mother was the Edmondson connection. Best wishes Jill www.namesfromclwyd.org.uk

Thank you very much, Tony, for your interesting story about your time as a lemonade boy! I've tried to find the picture you referred to ie. picture 149 in the Liverpool Picture Book but not sure if I've got the right one. I found a colour picture of Commutation Row in 1979. Can see what appears to be a bottle at the top of a four-storey building but should I be looking at the white building on the far left of the picture? As you obviously knew the people at Edmondson's would you have come across my friend's mother who was born Doris Evelyn Edmondson in 1912? Her father was Leonard Edmondson. Thanks again Jill

As late as the 1920s, my mother's two brothers went from Liverpool to Whitehaven in Cumberland by boat. Sadly they are all dead to I can't find out any details of what kind of boat it was but it won't have been anything very large! I know it's not Wales, but it shows that people did go to places on various coasts from Liverpool. And until the 1970s, you could go by boat from Liverpool to Llandudno - what a pity you can't do it now! Marged In reference to travei from Wales to liverpool in recent letters ,my many times Great Grand Father from Holywell married a Hester Barker or Burker in St Nicholas Church Liverpool in Dec 1730 (we have the certificate),they could have travelled by boat and landed at the Pier Head Liverpool,as we think many did from Wales ,Nathanial Maddocks was a Flax Dresser and went back to Wales and possibly Chester for a while . John Maddocks New Zealand ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3964/7682 - Release Date: 06/15/14

Thank you, Marged, for the information about the neon sign with the girl actually swinging. I would love to have seen it. Family history takes one down some very unexpected roads - I would never have thought a few days ago that I'd be looking into the history of neon gas and subsequent neon signs to try to estimate a date for this particular sign! Jill

Another uncertainty about deaths at sea is the FindMyPast records. I have a copy of a page of the register from 1889. The names on it cannot be found by searching FindMyPast Maritime Deaths. David Railton -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dennis bramble Sent: 15 June 2014 19:51 To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Drowning Well, there you go David. Nothing is for certain in this World! Years ago I could not find the death of two relatives. As they may have been sailing Thames and Medway barges under sail I was advised to look at the Maritime death index. There they were. In 1896, Faversham Creek and 1915 of Upnor on the Medway. Since then I have been able to help a few folk in the same way with the same results. Until now I have had no contrary information. Dennis Bramble. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, there you go David. Nothing is for certain in this World! Years ago I could not find the death of two relatives. As they may have been sailing Thames and Medway barges under sail I was advised to look at the Maritime death index. There they were. In 1896, Faversham Creek and 1915 of Upnor on the Medway. Since then I have been able to help a few folk in the same way with the same results. Until now I have had no contrary information. Dennis Bramble.

Angelika, Oh, my, word! What a wonderful, detailed, literate testimony you've posted. You must have spent much time organizing and composing the information you have. Kudos. PJ > Thank you for starting this thread, Lynne. Hope it's OK to post this to both Wigan and Liverpool - this father lived in both places (and several others!) .

Thank you for that amazing story, Angelika - it brought tears to my eyes! Marged Thank you for starting this thread, Lynne. Hope it's OK to post this to both Wigan and Liverpool - this father lived in both places (and several others!) ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3964/7679 - Release Date: 06/15/14

Thank you for starting this thread, Lynne. Hope it's OK to post this to both Wigan and Liverpool - this father lived in both places (and several others!) Charles James Roberts (1891 - 1930) was my husband's paternal grandfather... and it was hearing stories about his life that first got us interested in family history. He seems to have packed so much into his short life... but sadly, although there are family stories, we have very little by way of actual fact. Charlie (as he was known) was born in Wigan, one of at least six brothers - we think there must have been seven as the youngest, who died in infancy, was called Septimus. His parents were Randolph Roberts and Eleanor Green. Eleanor died when Charlie was only 12, three years later Randolph married Eliza, a widow with eight children. In 1911 the family was living in Linney Street in Wigan with Charlie's occupation stated as Colliery Road Man. Charlie emigrated to the USA some time between 1911 and 1914 - we still haven't found any record, one of the family stories is that he travelled as crew and jumped ship. We don't know what he did or where he went - the only photo we have of him was taken in Detroit, but there was also talk that he may have spent time with his uncle, another Charles James Roberts, in Philadelphia. He must have worked as a plumber at some point as that was the occupation he gave on his return to England. Charlie returned to England on 7 January 1915 (on the Adriatic, from New York to Liverpool), and enlisted on the same day. He served in the Royal Field Artillery, first as a gunner, then as a driver. In 1917 he found time to marry his cousin Evelyn Taylor. We are told that Evelyn's mum never approved of the marriage, despite the fact that Charlie was her nephew. Charlie and Evelyn settled down to married life in Liverpool, and their first child, Joyce, was born in 1921. It was always Charlie's plan to return to the USA, and he left England in 1923, on his own, intending to send for his wife and daughter as soon as he had found a job and somewhere to live. The family story was that he had gone to the USA, and we were somewhat surprised when we found that he had actually gone to Canada - allegedly, to join his uncle E. Roberts in East Broughton, Quebed, according to his landing card. A bit of a mystery, as there was no uncle E. Roberts! We don't know if Charlie ever got to East Broughton or if this was just something he made up so that they would let him off the ship. Evelyn and Joyce never did join Charlie... Evelyn was ready to go, she had even sold her furniture, but somehow her mother, with some help from the local vicar, managed to dissuade her. Again, we don't know where Charlie went or what he did... there was talk about work at a restaurant, there was talk about a "woman friend" (the name May was mentioned), there was talk about him earning a living as a busker at one point, and there was talk about him being destitute and turning up unannounced at Evelyn's brother's home in New York asking for money for his passage home. We have no record of his return to England but know that he must have arrived back home in the summer of 1925 at the latest as Nigel's dad, Neil, was born in April 1926. We also know that Charlie was in poor health when he returned. He died of chronic ulcerative phthisis in 1930 and was buried in Roby. According to his death certificate he was a glazer and floor tiler journeyman... but on Neil's marriage certificate, some 27 years later, he was described as a "master builder". Poetic licence? Evelyn remarried and had one further daughter... but maintained to the end her life that Charlie had been her one and only true love. "I loved him with every bone of my body". Charlie wrote about 200 letters to Evelyn during his time in North America, but she burnt them all after his death.... she was a lovely lady, but it's one thing we'll never forgive her for! Angelika (& Nigel)

Dianne, It is a shock when you see the sort of information that came out on the 1911 census. Like your G Grandparents who had a large no of children, my gt.grandmother had 17 children, 5 surviving with twin girls dying at age 10mth. Certainly were large families then. My mother was born in Bootle and came from a family of 13, 9, of them survived, so the survival rate got better as it is today. They were certainly different days then. BTW my research is Evans also, also some from Wales. Have a great day/evening all. Barbara --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Yet another possibility is travel by sea. In the past land travel was difficult and travel by sea easier. A number of my relatives from Somerset and Monmouthshire seem to have travelled by sea to Liverpool. There was some intermarriage with fishermen from the Liverpool / Lancashire area Dr T@m -----Original Message----- From: JOAN ZORN <j.zorn@btinternet.com> To: irene moores <irenemoores@btinternet.com>; ENG-LIVERPOOL <ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com>; eng-liverpool <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 23:16 Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] transport 1840s Probably along what is now the A483, then A5, etc going through Welshpool, Oswestry, Wrexham, Chester, Birkenhead. Without own coach/carriage/horse could have hitched a lift with one of the regular carters as well as walking. There was regular traffic between this part of the Welsh/English borderland and Liverpool Another possibility is going part of the way on the canals. The Montgomeryshire canal opened in 1797. Google Ellesmere Canal for more info on Wikipedia Joan ________________________________ From: irene moores <irenemoores@btinternet.com> To: "ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com" <ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 14 June 2014, 15:06 Subject: [ENG-LIV] transport 1840s Hello, could sks please tell the route and mode of transport from Montgommery to Liverpool in the 1840s. cheerio Irene ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It would depend on their status and financial resources, as well as when in the 1840s.. A farm labourer, going to the "big smoke" would have walked much of the way (at about 20 to 30 miles per day), while the more affluent would have taken a stage coach. Then if they owned their own horse... The Shrewsbury and Crewe Railway was opened in 1858, with the Shrewsbury and Welshpool Railway in the 1860s, so doing the first part of the trip by rail can be ruled out. However once in Crewe, they could have taken a train on the Grand Junction Railway which opened in 1837 connecting Birmingham with the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. Prior to the railways, the canals also took passengers and many of these were built in the late 18th century. David Armstrong Maylands, Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: irene moores To: ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 10:06 PM Subject: [ENG-LIV] transport 1840s Hello, could sks please tell the route and mode of transport from Montgommery to Liverpool in the 1840s. cheerio Irene --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Probably along what is now the A483, then A5, etc going through Welshpool, Oswestry, Wrexham, Chester, Birkenhead. Without own coach/carriage/horse could have hitched a lift with one of the regular carters as well as walking. There was regular traffic between this part of the Welsh/English borderland and Liverpool Another possibility is going part of the way on the canals. The Montgomeryshire canal opened in 1797.  Google Ellesmere Canal for more info on Wikipedia Joan ________________________________ From: irene moores <irenemoores@btinternet.com> To: "ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com" <ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 14 June 2014, 15:06 Subject: [ENG-LIV] transport 1840s Hello, could sks please tell the route and mode of transport from Montgommery to Liverpool in the 1840s. cheerio Irene ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com  Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list.  No fees!  ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Not necessarily. The death of my great great grand aunt, Eliza Jane Treadwell nee Simmons, on 18th October, 1889 was recorded not in the Marine Deaths but in the main GRO Deaths as 'On board SS Eturia at sea, landed at Princes Stage.' David Railton -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dennis bramble Sent: 14 June 2014 20:51 To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Drowning The death was not a death "at sea" Had the ship been under way the death would have been recorded on the Maritime Death Index even if the ship was in the River Mersey D.Bramble. -----Original Message----- From: jen@easypc.cix.co.uk Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 8:34 AM To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Drowning My great grandfather died after falling down the hold of a ship in the Salthouse dock in Liverpool in the late 1890s. His death was registered on the normal Death index. There was also an inquest and a brief report in the Liverpool Mercury. Regards Jen Sent from my iPad > On 13 Jun 2014, at 19:42, pjsalis@hal-pc.org wrote: > > > > Hello, > > What about a seaman's or a dock-worker's death after he fell off the > gangplank of a ship docked in possibly Liverpool or Blackpool, > sometime after 1896? > > My Irish great-great-grandfather Thomas KELLY is said to have died > that way. > > Thanks. > PJ > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The death was not a death "at sea" Had the ship been under way the death would have been recorded on the Maritime Death Index even if the ship was in the River Mersey D.Bramble. -----Original Message----- From: jen@easypc.cix.co.uk Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 8:34 AM To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Drowning My great grandfather died after falling down the hold of a ship in the Salthouse dock in Liverpool in the late 1890s. His death was registered on the normal Death index. There was also an inquest and a brief report in the Liverpool Mercury. Regards Jen Sent from my iPad > On 13 Jun 2014, at 19:42, pjsalis@hal-pc.org wrote: > > > > Hello, > > What about a seaman's or a dock-worker's death after he fell off the > gangplank of a ship docked in possibly Liverpool or Blackpool, sometime > after 1896? > > My Irish great-great-grandfather Thomas KELLY is said to have died that > way. > > Thanks. > PJ > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > > Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No > fees! > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com Buy or sell family research items on the GEN-MAT-UKI mailing list. No fees! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

While it is not "fathers day"here in NZ it will be in August. In the meantime I am still searching for my Gt. Grandfather. Edward Evans born abt 1855-60+ in Wrexham Wales. Edward lived mainly in Bootle Liverpool with his wife Ellen and their 5 sons, although 1911 census has Ellen & Edward having had 17 children!! Twin girls Ellen & Esther died in 1901. Edward was a Slater's labourer by trade, although some of the birth certificates of the 5 sons has him as a Labourer. 1911 he is working as a general labourer for the Bootle Corporation. Edward's father's name was Thomas, unfortunately I do not Edward's mother's name or any other sibblings. Edward died in 1915 at age 55, at 14 Spring Grove Bootle. Interesting as the 1911 census has him as 56yrs so DOB is fairly broad. Happy Father's day to all. Barbara --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

It won't be father's day in Australia until September. To remember my father Arthur Llewelyn was born at St Hilda Street Kirkdale in 1906 the youngest child of William Henry & Jane Ellen (Evans) Johnson. I was shocked to find in the 1911 census they had 10 children and only 4 survived. William was a clerk on the docks from the time he was 14 until his death. My father spent a lot of time with his Welsh relatives at Tremadoc, even though his mother spoke Welsh, my sisters said dad was forever sorry he never learnt to speak the language. Unfortunately my father died when I was 6, I only have a few memories of him, one of a very tall man with dark curly hair. My very much older sisters have lovely memories. I have have found lots of information about my Liverpudlian rels from the wonderful Liverpool list. Dianne