I am interested in any connections to the family of John Stones. John Stones b. abt 1826 Ulverston Lancs Occupation Sailmaker D. 1878 West Derby spouse 1 Ann Lee(?) married 1854 Not proved yet. Children : Agnes 1853 Ullverston Thomas. 1855 Flyde Wilson George 1857 Liverpool John 1866 Liverpool Spouse 2 Rachel Dobson (nee Standish) Married 1875 At Liverpool Children: Rachel Ann 1875 Liverpool William Henry 1878 Liverpool Thanks Dave D.

looking for decendants of amelia stubbs. nee williams. elizabeth b 1895 dorothy b 1899 william b 1893 amelia b 1896 all in west derby. also decendants of her brother samuel samuel b 1897 theresa b 1900 elizabeth b 1902 also known as lizzie ann b 1905 ada b 1906 emily francis b 1907 mabel b 1913 lilles b 1915 arthur b 1921 all in west derby thanks marie

Hello Listers, Here are the latest records to be uploaded to the OPC site http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ 16 July 2009 Marriages 1876 to 1886 from Chirst Church in the Parish of Adlington Baptisms 1911 to 1937 from St Thomas, Dixon Green, Farnworth Baptisms 1846 to 1847 from the Church of St Peter, Liverpool Marriages 1838 to 1900 from the Church of St Andrew in the Parish of Longton Burials 1906 to 1917 from St Paul, Peel in the Parish of Little Hulton Marriages 1793 to 1812 from the Parish of Rainford Marriages 1778 to 1797 from the Parish of Samlesbury Regards, Sally PS. Am away from the computer for a couple of days, so if you're desperate for records, you'll have to check the site daily for yourselves. I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms already.... :o)

On new snippets page Please support free sites http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/index.html Jane

I received the following reply when I emailed the Central Library Records Office for my visit to Liverpool in August, and I'm sure they will answer your questions about the time it takes for your research. Look at Liverpool Record Office and Local History Library for information about the readers ticket. The holdings of St Peters Aintree are Baptisms 1919-1998 Marriages 1880-1919,1928-1996 Banns 1880-1997 Confirmations 1929-1994 these records are not on film you will need a readers ticket to access them.The street directories are on film please telephone us on 0151 233 5817/5811 to make a booking. Pauline Cass Liverpool Record Office ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Allen" <kfa818@yahoo.com> To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Holy Cross Church marriage record First of all, thank you very much to all who responded to my question re: Holy Cross and marriage records. I am truly grateful for all your help. I will be visiting Liverpool for a day while on a cruise of the British Isles the middle of August. ( I know, I know. I am very blessed to be able to do this.) We dock on a Sunday and I think the Liverpool records office is in the Central Library on William Brown St. Would I have time to find this record, view, and print me a copy? Do I need microfilm numbers in advance or will they help me find what I need to view. I was just hoping to find out more info than the GRO certificate showed me. Like where they were born in Ireland and parents names. ....Anything more would be fabulous. What do you suggest? ________________________________ From: Tony Marr <tony@marr77.freeserve.co.uk> To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:01:32 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Holy Cross Church marriage record Kay The Liverpool records Office have the Holy Cross records - I recently contacted them by email for details of my GG Grandfather's wedding there in 1858 - they sent me back a transcript of the entry (in Latin, I'm afraid) which gave me a couple of new leads in my research - it included the full names of the bride and groom's parents and where they were from (in my case Cork and Dublin) which isn't included on the marriage certificate, even the name of the priest. They replied within a few days, and it was free - although they do offer a paid for research service if you want more information. Tony Marr Bucks UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kay Allen Sent: 14 July 2009 16:05 To: ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LIV] Holy Cross Church marriage record Hello all, I am new to posting on this list. I just received my first GRO certificate yesterday for the marriage of my ggrandfather/mother which showed the marriage took place at Holy Cross Church on July 20?, 1881. Does this church still exist? Where might I obtain the marriage record from this church. I would like to see if the church record listed more info than the GRO certificate. Their names were James Cregan and Bridget Mary Manley and they originally came from Ireland and lived in Liverpool until 1890 before coming to USA. Thank you. Kay ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4248 (20090716) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Hello Claire, Thanks for the info on the LANGTON'S this is just what I need to build up a picture of what the 18th and early 19th century LANGTON'S did for a living in Liverpool before they moved to Toxteth Park sometime after 1815.If you come across anything else no matter what it is please post it to the list, Best Wishes, Margaret[Wigan] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claire" <ocean9@tiscali.co.uk> To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] 18th Century LANGTONS > Hello Margaret, > > There are five Langtons mentioned in Gores 1790 Directory of Liverpool > which > can be accessed here > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/13698/mb.ashx > > Langton Edmund, porter, 12 Gradwell St > Langton Edmund & Co, porters, Old Dock > Langton George, tobacco broker, 39 Chapel St, grocers shop & c 8 Georges > Dock > Langton Haseldine & Latham, porters, Dry Dock > Langton Ralph, porter, 24 Covent Garden > > 1824 Baines Directory of Liverpool > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/14731/mb.ashx > > Langton Esther, baker, 12 Gradwell St > Langton Wm & Thos & Co merchants and ale and porter dealers, 5 King St > Lane > > There are a number of advertisements and mentions of William and Thomas > Langton in the Liverpool Mercury > > Regards > > Claire > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "william roberts" <william.roberts7@btinternet.com> > To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:36 PM > Subject: [ENG-LIV] 18th Century LANGTONS > > >> Hello listers, >> For the last 4 to 5 weeks I have been trying to gather >> info on the Langton families who worked as Master Porters and Porters on >> the 3 Liverpool Docks in the late 18th century,to date I have found out >> very little new about them but a lot about the other Langtons that is >> well >> documented.The other Langtons are the Langtons of Kirkham many of whom >> married into the Earle family,the Langtons of Blythe Hall who ended up in >> Canada and George Langton of Skelton Lancaster who moved to Liverpool and >> became a Tobacco Merchant.This George Langton was also a Partner in a >> Pottery at Lancaster Docks that was set up with the help of Potters who >> moved from Liverpool.The Langton families I am interested in include >> Edmund Langton,Ralph Langton and his son John who is my direct Ancestor >> on >> my mothers side.I would be gratefull for any info even if you may think >> it >> of no great importance it might just give me the breakthrough I am >> seeking.I am also interested in any studies tha! >> t have been done on the 18th century Docks and how they operated or >> sources that exsist such as Tax records,Porterage Rates,business >> agreements etc.The Langtons appear to have operated as a cartel. >> >> >> Margaret[Wigan] >> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >> >> Admin Message - List guidelines: >> http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm >> >> The list admin can be contacted at >> Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Tomas & Claire, The comments have really helped not only clear up my "invisible" Minnie but settle some other issues I have had between Ancestry and FreeBMD. Thanks again for your help, Scott B Canada --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Tomas Christie <tomas_christie@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: Tomas Christie <tomas_christie@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Herger Family To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Received: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 6:33 AM Scott, To add to what Claire has said, this is the same entry transcribed by two people.  This does happen with FreeBMD sometimes, but by checking as Claire has suggested it is usually possible to resolve. To set your mind at rest about the dual Ancestry entry, if you look you will see that it actually gives the FreeBMD Birth Index as the source, so it is just duplicating the original transcription error.  It is very important to record sources with new information and even more important to learn to evaluate resources.  As a general rule one should find two primary sources of a recognised origin, but one should always be aware of transcription errors, duplication and unreliable sources.  In your case you have a transcription error which has been duplicated by Ancestry, so a good example of what you don't want. Other sources that should always be double checked are LDS entries in hte IGI and other peoples' trees, as they are not primary sources and quite often contain errors. You say that Minna / Minnie is at school with the rest of her family in 1901, which I thought sounded as if she might be on the old side to be a scholar / pupil. I looked at the original and she is actually a Governess in training at the same school as her siblings.  This suggests that she might have been a good pupil at the school and has been kept on as a trainee teacher, which is not the same as being a pupil.  You had probably realised that anyway. Tomas. ________________________________ From: Claire <ocean9@tiscali.co.uk> To: mykinmik@yahoo.com; eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 15 July, 2009 11:23:52 Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Herger Family Hello Scott, If you look at the original index for December 1881 there is only one entry and that is for Minna Herger. Go to Freebmd and enter Herger in births. Click on the glasses to the right of the entry for Minna. On the right hand side under display format, choose which format to use and then on the left hand side click on view the original. A dialog box will appear asking if you want to open the file, click on OK. Regards Claire       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com  ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

I am new to the list and would be pleased if somebody could give me some direction in finding documents relating to Robert Butler and his family. I am experianced in family research here in Australia however, I must say I am lost when it comes to Liverpool, England. I have in my family tree Robert Butler aged 40 years married Mary Jane Nicholson 1856 in Maitland New South Wales. The marriage certificate does not mention his fathers name however, his mother is stated to be Isabella Dobson Brown and he states he is from Liverpool, England. The only death registered in NSW fitting Robert Butler is that of a Robert Butler died 1884 aged 79 years the certificate also, states he arrived on the convict ship Elizabeth. The convict Robert Butler had an alias name of Brown, the Robert Butler marrying in Maitland, NSW in 1856 states his mother as Isabella Dobson Brown. I have found IGI an Isabella Brown marrying a Thomas Butler in Manchester Cathedral 23 November 1797, I am wondering if this couple could be his parents as Robert Butler and Mary Jane Nicholson's son was named Thomas Butler in 1862. The information I have for Robert Butler arriving on the ship Elizabeth is as follows: Convict Indents arrival Tasmania: Robert Butler alias Brown. Age 20 years. Arrival 14 February 1832. Convict Ship Elizabeth. Tried Lancaster 5 March 1831 Sentence Life. Transported for burglary; gaol report: In prison 3 months for assault. Bad character, he tried to escape, Single. Stated this offence burglary, attempted to escape while under present conviction. Findings from A2A search I would very much like to know what information I would be contained in these documents as 3 June 1831 is the date the convict ship Elizabeth sailed from England for Van Demands Land (Tasmania). [no title] DDCM 1/37 3 Jun. 1831 These documents are held at Lancashire Record Office Contents: Robert Jacquer, Robert Butler, otherwise Robert Brown, William Travis, James Anderton, Peter Kenyon, John Halliwell, John Greenhalgh (burglary) John Booth (robbery), William Bayley (stealing in a dwelling house), John Green (horse stealing) James Williamson, Jones, otherwise John Murfiss (uttering forged Bills of Exchange), Thomas Liddy, Abraham Sidebotham (uttering forged bank notes), Sarah Martin (uttering a forged promissory note), Edward Simcock (being at large before his term of transportation had expired). Beyond the seas for life. Thomas Butterworth (being at large before his term of transportation had expired), John Clarkson, Thomas Bell (cow stealing), Thomas Jones (uttering forged Bills of Exchange) Christopher Willcock (forgery). Beyond the seas for 14 yrs. Contact with related families or suggestion of where I can research the above would be greatfully appreciated. Kind regards. Rhonda Newell. New South Wales. Australia.

Thanks for your reply Dave. Yes, I did know about the marriage regulations (I've been researching family history for 20 years...) but haven't had anything to do with Catholicism. We have the marriage certificate, but my question was really relating to the whereabouts of the church records.(I have just seen an email from Jane with information about these :-) Your explanation of the 'marriage by certificate' was useful, too. The etymology of the name is difficult - it doesn't appear anywhere before our John in Liverpool. Yes, Berlin was one of the names we had considered, but it is very difficult to link Burilin with any of the possible variants without some idea of where in Ireland they came from. Your suggestion that they may not have lived in the parish long enough to satisfy Canon Law is a good thought - particularly John who does not appear on the 1871 Census. From the reply I've just seen from Jane, we might get John's parent's address from the church record. Fingers are crossed!! Thanks again for your response. Dorothy G'day Dorothy, The start of Civil Registration in 1837, also brought in the concept of Civil Marriages conducted by the Superintendent-Registrar of the Register Office. These marriages are "by Certificate". In England, a Marriage Licence is a Church Licence issued to avoid the procedure of having the Banns called in Church. The use of a Certificate in a Church ceremony, suggests to me two things. First, the couple had not lived in the parish long enough to conform to Canon Law for the purposes of marriage. And secondly, that it may have been a mixed marriage, ie a Catholic to a Protestant, which would in conformance with Canon Law. One variation of the name Burilin which you didn't canvass was "Berlin". There were a group of German Protestants in Ireland who are referred to as Palatines in that they were religious refugees from the Palatine in Germany. Have you checked the etymology of the name? Hope this helps David Armstrong Maylands, Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: D E Gaunt To: ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 5:13 AM Subject: [ENG-LIV] BURILIN - many questions! HI List I'm new to this particular List and have searched the Archives for any help with this problem. No luck, so am asking if there is anyone with any suggestions. I am helping a friend research her husband's ancestor who emigrated from Ireland to Liverpool sometime before 1878. His name was John BURILIN and this is the name the family has used ever since, but it seems to have been a new version of another name. (Burlin? Burland? Barlan? Bryland? Etc etc) 23 year old John Berilin married Mary Ann DWYER at the Church of Our Lady of Mercy (marriage cert), in 1878. His father is John Berilin too. 'Our' John became Burilin in the 1881 Census and he gave his place of birth as Ireland. My problems: . I cannot find anything about this Church. I did find a mid-1850s picture of a convent of Our Lady of Mercy and wondered if it was likely that they were married in the Chapel of the convent? . Where could I find the records of such a marriage? I have looked in the Liverpool Record Office index and there's nothing there. Would it be appropriate to write to the diocese office ? (if there is such a thing - I have not done any Catholic (or Irish) research so am not sure of the procedure.) . The Marriage Certificate says 'Married by Certificate" I'm used to English and Scottish certs which say "By licence' or 'After banns' so I don't know what significance this has. . John is not on the 1871 Census and nor are there any others with the name, which suggests he went to Liverpool on his own. But how on earth do I find whereabouts in Ireland? . Mary Ann Dwyer's father came from Co Kilkenny. Did Irish people stick together with others from their home area? So many questions, but if someone could help with even one I'd be grateful! I just don't know where to go from here. Many thanks Dorothy New Zealand ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kay The Liverpool records Office have the Holy Cross records - I recently contacted them by email for details of my GG Grandfather's wedding there in 1858 - they sent me back a transcript of the entry (in Latin, I'm afraid) which gave me a couple of new leads in my research - it included the full names of the bride and groom's parents and where they were from (in my case Cork and Dublin) which isn't included on the marriage certificate, even the name of the priest. They replied within a few days, and it was free - although they do offer a paid for research service if you want more information. Tony Marr Bucks UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kay Allen Sent: 14 July 2009 16:05 To: ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LIV] Holy Cross Church marriage record Hello all, I am new to posting on this list.  I just received my first GRO certificate yesterday for the marriage of my ggrandfather/mother which showed the marriage took place at Holy Cross Church on July 20?, 1881.  Does this church still exist?  Where might I obtain the marriage record from this church.  I would like to see if the church record listed more info than the GRO certificate.  Their names were James Cregan and Bridget Mary Manley and they originally came from Ireland and lived in Liverpool until 1890 before coming to USA. Thank you. Kay ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Joan. I did see this in the archives and sent an email to her but it bounced back to me, Not too surprising as it was from so long ago. Thanks anyway for taking the trouble. Dorothy -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney [mailto:mc.rooney@sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:06 AM To: ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com; gauntd@paradise.net.nz Subject: Burilin in List archives 1996 Hi, >From the Liverpool list Archives in Sept 29, 1996 there is a surname list including BURILIN Carlow, IRL>Liverpool c1880 on Nancy Parkinson Walton MJPHHR@pacbell.net Regards, Joan

Hello Margaret, There are five Langtons mentioned in Gores 1790 Directory of Liverpool which can be accessed here http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/13698/mb.ashx Langton Edmund, porter, 12 Gradwell St Langton Edmund & Co, porters, Old Dock Langton George, tobacco broker, 39 Chapel St, grocers shop & c 8 Georges Dock Langton Haseldine & Latham, porters, Dry Dock Langton Ralph, porter, 24 Covent Garden 1824 Baines Directory of Liverpool http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.lan.general/14731/mb.ashx Langton Esther, baker, 12 Gradwell St Langton Wm & Thos & Co merchants and ale and porter dealers, 5 King St Lane There are a number of advertisements and mentions of William and Thomas Langton in the Liverpool Mercury Regards Claire ----- Original Message ----- From: "william roberts" <william.roberts7@btinternet.com> To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:36 PM Subject: [ENG-LIV] 18th Century LANGTONS > Hello listers, > For the last 4 to 5 weeks I have been trying to gather > info on the Langton families who worked as Master Porters and Porters on > the 3 Liverpool Docks in the late 18th century,to date I have found out > very little new about them but a lot about the other Langtons that is well > documented.The other Langtons are the Langtons of Kirkham many of whom > married into the Earle family,the Langtons of Blythe Hall who ended up in > Canada and George Langton of Skelton Lancaster who moved to Liverpool and > became a Tobacco Merchant.This George Langton was also a Partner in a > Pottery at Lancaster Docks that was set up with the help of Potters who > moved from Liverpool.The Langton families I am interested in include > Edmund Langton,Ralph Langton and his son John who is my direct Ancestor on > my mothers side.I would be gratefull for any info even if you may think it > of no great importance it might just give me the breakthrough I am > seeking.I am also interested in any studies tha! > t have been done on the 18th century Docks and how they operated or > sources that exsist such as Tax records,Porterage Rates,business > agreements etc.The Langtons appear to have operated as a cartel. > > > Margaret[Wigan] > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

First of all, thank you very much to all who responded to my question re:  Holy Cross and marriage records.  I am truly grateful for all your help. I will be visiting Liverpool for a day while on a cruise of the British Isles the middle of August. ( I know, I know.  I am very blessed to be able to do this.)  We dock on a Sunday and I think the Liverpool records office is in the Central Library on William Brown St.  Would I have time to find this record, view, and print me a copy?  Do I need microfilm numbers in advance or will they help me find what I need to view.  I was just hoping to find out more info than the GRO certificate showed me.  Like where they were born in Ireland and parents names.  ....Anything more would be fabulous.  What do you suggest? ________________________________ From: Tony Marr <tony@marr77.freeserve.co.uk> To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:01:32 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Holy Cross Church marriage record Kay The Liverpool records Office have the Holy Cross records - I recently contacted them by email for details of my GG Grandfather's wedding there in 1858 - they sent me back a transcript of the entry (in Latin, I'm afraid) which gave me a couple of new leads in my research - it included the full names of the bride and groom's parents and where they were from (in my case Cork and Dublin) which isn't included on the marriage certificate, even the name of the priest. They replied within a few days, and it was free - although they do offer a paid for research service if you want more information. Tony Marr Bucks UK -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kay Allen Sent: 14 July 2009 16:05 To: ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LIV] Holy Cross Church marriage record Hello all, I am new to posting on this list.  I just received my first GRO certificate yesterday for the marriage of my ggrandfather/mother which showed the marriage took place at Holy Cross Church on July 20?, 1881.  Does this church still exist?  Where might I obtain the marriage record from this church.  I would like to see if the church record listed more info than the GRO certificate.  Their names were James Cregan and Bridget Mary Manley and they originally came from Ireland and lived in Liverpool until 1890 before coming to USA. Thank you. Kay       ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com  ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com  ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello listers, For the last 4 to 5 weeks I have been trying to gather info on the Langton families who worked as Master Porters and Porters on the 3 Liverpool Docks in the late 18th century,to date I have found out very little new about them but a lot about the other Langtons that is well documented.The other Langtons are the Langtons of Kirkham many of whom married into the Earle family,the Langtons of Blythe Hall who ended up in Canada and George Langton of Skelton Lancaster who moved to Liverpool and became a Tobacco Merchant.This George Langton was also a Partner in a Pottery at Lancaster Docks that was set up with the help of Potters who moved from Liverpool.The Langton families I am interested in include Edmund Langton,Ralph Langton and his son John who is my direct Ancestor on my mothers side.I would be gratefull for any info even if you may think it of no great importance it might just give me the breakthrough I am seeking.I am also interested in any studies that have been done on the 18th century Docks and how they operated or sources that exsist such as Tax records,Porterage Rates,business agreements etc.The Langtons appear to have operated as a cartel. Margaret[Wigan]

In our Parish, a parishioner is Registrar. She attends marriages and is paid a small fee, which she donates to charity. Works out very well - cuts out all those brides kept waiting at the altar for the registrar to turn up. Marged As Andy says all Roman Catholic marriages had to be conducted in the presence of a Registrar and this continues to this day. The change was that Roman Catholic priests could become Registrars and thus conduct legal marriage ceremonies without another Registrar being present. If the priest was not a Registrar then the marriage would be "Registrar attended", which means that the Registrar for the district would be within hearing of the ceremony and so long as the Registrar heard the correct words used he or she could then complete the formalities. Tomas

Andy said; "Until 1898 only Church of England, Jewish and Quaker places of worship were entitled to maintain their own marriage registers. All other non-conformist and Roman Catholic marriages had to be conducted in the presence of a registrar, and are therefore listed as 'Civil Marriages', together with all those conducted at the local register office. After 1898 non-conformist and Roman Catholic churches were allowed to keep their own registers and celebrate their own marriages," There was nothing stopping RC churches from keeping registers before 1898. As Andy says all Roman Catholic marriages had to be conducted in the presence of a Registrar and this continues to this day.  The change was that Roman Catholic priests could become Registrars and thus conduct legal marriage ceremonies without another Registrar being present.  If the priest was not a Registrar then the marriage would be "Registrar attended", which means that the Registrar for the district would be within hearing of the ceremony and so long as the Registrar heard the correct words used he or she could then complete the formalities.  Tomas

Scott, To add to what Claire has said, this is the same entry transcribed by two people.  This does happen with FreeBMD sometimes, but by checking as Claire has suggested it is usually possible to resolve. To set your mind at rest about the dual Ancestry entry, if you look you will see that it actually gives the FreeBMD Birth Index as the source, so it is just duplicating the original transcription error.  It is very important to record sources with new information and even more important to learn to evaluate resources.  As a general rule one should find two primary sources of a recognised origin, but one should always be aware of transcription errors, duplication and unreliable sources.  In your case you have a transcription error which has been duplicated by Ancestry, so a good example of what you don't want. Other sources that should always be double checked are LDS entries in hte IGI and other peoples' trees, as they are not primary sources and quite often contain errors. You say that Minna / Minnie is at school with the rest of her family in 1901, which I thought sounded as if she might be on the old side to be a scholar / pupil. I looked at the original and she is actually a Governess in training at the same school as her siblings.  This suggests that she might have been a good pupil at the school and has been kept on as a trainee teacher, which is not the same as being a pupil.  You had probably realised that anyway. Tomas. ________________________________ From: Claire <ocean9@tiscali.co.uk> To: mykinmik@yahoo.com; eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 15 July, 2009 11:23:52 Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Herger Family Hello Scott, If you look at the original index for December 1881 there is only one entry and that is for Minna Herger. Go to Freebmd and enter Herger in births. Click on the glasses to the right of the entry for Minna. On the right hand side under display format, choose which format to use and then on the left hand side click on view the original. A dialog box will appear asking if you want to open the file, click on OK. Regards Claire

Hello Scott, If you look at the original index for December 1881 there is only one entry and that is for Minna Herger. Go to Freebmd and enter Herger in births. Click on the glasses to the right of the entry for Minna. On the right hand side under display format, choose which format to use and then on the left hand side click on view the original. A dialog box will appear asking if you want to open the file, click on OK. Regards Claire ----- Original Message ----- From: <mykinmik@yahoo.com> To: <ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [ENG-LIV] Herger Family Hello from Canada, I am hoping someone can help with my Herger family. As best as I can see, there are only a few unrelated Herger families in the UK in the late 1800's, so there shouldn't be a problem. But sadly it is never as it seems. FreeBMD and Ancestry show a Minna Herger and Minnie Herger born in Dec 1881. ( I know the family line is prone to twins ie:- Charles & Otto Herger born Mar 1877) The problem comes when the 1891 Census only shows Minna Herger with family, the 1901 Census only shows Minnie Herger at school with her other sisters, and the only other entry for Minna/Minnie in FreeBMD shows Minna getting married in 1908. So would the double entry for the birth certificates be a correction for the other (would one of the birth certificates be stamped with a correction comment?) and Minnie/Minna be the same person, or would they really have been twins. Would there have been any local registries that might help? Any help would be greatly appreciated, Scott B Canada __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----- Original Message ----- From: <mykinmik@yahoo.com> To: <ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [ENG-LIV] Herger Family Hello from Canada, I am hoping someone can help with my Herger family. As best as I can see, there are only a few unrelated Herger families in the UK in the late 1800's, so there shouldn't be a problem. But sadly it is never as it seems. FreeBMD and Ancestry show a Minna Herger and Minnie Herger born in Dec 1881. ( I know the family line is prone to twins ie:- Charles & Otto Herger born Mar 1877) The problem comes when the 1891 Census only shows Minna Herger with family, the 1901 Census only shows Minnie Herger at school with her other sisters, and the only other entry for Minna/Minnie in FreeBMD shows Minna getting married in 1908. So would the double entry for the birth certificates be a correction for the other (would one of the birth certificates be stamped with a correction comment?) and Minnie/Minna be the same person, or would they really have been twins. Would there have been any local registries that might help? Any help would be greatly appreciated, Scott B Canada __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm looking for more information on Ross Munro Smith b. 18 Jan 1898 in Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland. He married Jamesina Thomson Mair 8 Feb 1918 in Dumbarton. The parents of Ross are Daniel Penny Smith and Sarah Buchanan Simpson. Ross and Jamesina moved to Liverpool around 1940. I think that Ross Munro died about 1956, but I have not been able to find a death record. I looked in the England BMD index. If I don't find him in this index, does that mean he didn't die in England? Any information would be appreciated.