Hello Dot John Doyle is an enigma My Doyle's were protestants - John Doyle was born in Silloth Cumberland - 1863 Ada Latimer his 2nd wife was also born in Silloth - died in Liverpool - buried in Silloth St Paul's Causeway Cem., - Ada's parents from Scotland................. John is mentioned on Ada's grave stone 'remember by beloved husband john Doyle's John's father was Peter Doyle I assume he also was from Sillouth ?? - My father remembered John in the1920's - but from there on nothing - didn't remember him dieing ................... 1911 census he was living with his daughter Jessie Doyle - my gran in Liverpool. I guess I'll have to give up........................... thank you to everyone who tried to help me.......................................... Audrey O'Keefe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dorothy Holden" <DMHolden@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com>; <eng-merseyside@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: [ENG-LIV] MILES, DOYLE and TAYLOR > Returning to tracing my ADDISON family line I have now found some > additional > information on Mary Teresa MILES who married Ernest George ADDISON. > > In 1911 (Mary) Teresa MILES is shown as niece, living with her aunt > Frances > TAYLOR nee DOYLE in Liverpool. I believe this is where she may have met > Ernest as he is a lodger with the family. Frances married Albert John > TAYLOR in the June Quarter of 1901. In 1911 they had two daughters - > Edith > and Hilda, and a son, Albert John. Albert senior is shown as an Iron > Founder Engineer. > > In 1901 Frances was living with her parents - Michael DOYLE aged 56 born > Ireland and Mary (possibly nee GALLAGHER?) aged 50 born Liverpool. > Siblings > still at home were Mary aged 21 and James aged 16. > > In 1891 Michael and Mary are living in Dryden Street with children Teresa > (mother to Mary Teresa on the 1911), Mary Catherine, Frances and James. > > In 1881 they are in Limekiln Lane with children William, Teresa, Richard > and > Mary. > > Mary Teresa's mother Teresa DOYLE married James MILES in the June Quarter > of > 1893 in Liverpool. > > Their marriage was at St Josephs RC, James is stated to be the son of > Patrick MILES of 43 Atkinson Street and Teresa is stated as being the > daughter of Michael DOYLE of 47 Beau Street. > > In 1901 the census shows James and Teresa as living at 4 house 1 court > Lambert Street Islington with children (Mary) Teresa aged 7, William aged > 5 > and Patrick aged 3 > > In 1911 James is in the Liverpool Workhouse and Infirmary at Brownlow Hill > as a patient, (Mary) Teresa is living with her Aunt Frances as above, both > William and Patrick are in the St Thomas Home, Hesketh Street, Preston > where > William is an Apprentice Tailor and of Teresa there seems to be no trace. > I > can only assume at the moment that they had no money coming in to live on > whilst James was in hospital which is why the children have been sent > away. > > I would love to hear from anyone who can link into these families. > > Regards, > > Dot > > Dorothy Holden > Dover Kent England > > > There are three things that can never be retrieved- the spoken word, time > past and the neglected opportunity > > > I volunteer for the Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness website > www.raogk.org > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Lionel and others, Are any of you aware of Liverpool directories for the 1871-1889 period? Thanks so much, Joan Murray Armistead On Aug 23, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Ljcde9@aol.com wrote: > Here is an online site for Historical Directories. > _http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/_ > (http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/) > > Lionel

Hi Judy, I am reporting it accurately from the PRO copy. Someone at the FHL in Salt Lake recommended that I request the copy from the LIverpool Record office and see if "the original" says the same thing. I noted in caps the inconsistency in the documents- the JOHN for the father who was shown as James on the marriage and the DeegEN as opposed to Deegan for Catherine's last name. Her church birth/baptism record in Athy, Kildare spelled it Deegan. The latter does not bother me the former obviously does. Joan On Aug 23, 2009, at 3:25 PM, judy olsen wrote: > Did you mean father's name is JAMES or is this an anomaly? > > > Judy > > > On 23 Aug 2009, at 18:48, Joan Armistead wrote: > >> >> 1 Feb 1870 John Murray born at 34 Greek Street in the sub-district of >> Mount Pleasant, Liverpool, County of Lancaster, father's name is >> JOHN >> Murray, his mother is Catherine Murray formerly DeegEn, father is a >> tailor and his signature is J Murray and lives on Greek Street, >> registered 21 February 1870 (registration district Liverpool). > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Thank you so much! At 04:10 PM 8/23/2009, you wrote: >Hi Carolyn > >There are a few online on the Lancashire message board. Just go to the >boards (either <http://boards.ancestry.com> or ><http://boards.rootsweb.com>), click on Advanced Search and enter "gore >directory" (without the quotation marks) into the Subject of Message field. > >There are also Gore and Kelly directories that cover Liverpool on the >Historical Directories site. See http://www.historicaldirectories.org >and then select Lancashire as the region. > >UKGDL, a companion site to UKBMD, contains links to genealogical >directories and lists on the Internet: <http://www.ukgdl.org.uk/>. > >Some of your fellow subscribers have copies of directories. If you're >more specific about time periods and can provide some possible >occupations, someone may be able to do a lookup or two for you. > >Hope that helps little! > >Kind regards, >Lynne > > Carolyn Parker wrote: > > >Hi List, Can you tell me please how to access the Gore's Liverpool > >Directories? Are they online? I am interested in late 1700's, early > >1800's. surnames: IVESTER, MC CRUM > > > >~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > >Admin Message - List guidelines: >http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > >The list admin can be contacted at >Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you!! At 03:54 PM 8/23/2009, you wrote: >Here is an online site for Historical Directories. >_http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/_ >(http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/) > > Lionel > >In a message dated 8/23/2009 2:43:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >ca.parker@comcast.net writes: > >Hi List, Can you tell me please how to access the Gore's Liverpool >Directories? Are they online? I am interested in late 1700's, early >1800's. surnames: IVESTER, MC CRUM >Thank you, Carolyn > > >~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > >Admin Message - List guidelines: >http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > >The list admin can be contacted at >Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the >subject and the body of the message > > >~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > >Admin Message - List guidelines: >http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > >The list admin can be contacted at >Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Returning to tracing my ADDISON family line I have now found some additional information on Mary Teresa MILES who married Ernest George ADDISON. In 1911 (Mary) Teresa MILES is shown as niece, living with her aunt Frances TAYLOR nee DOYLE in Liverpool. I believe this is where she may have met Ernest as he is a lodger with the family. Frances married Albert John TAYLOR in the June Quarter of 1901. In 1911 they had two daughters - Edith and Hilda, and a son, Albert John. Albert senior is shown as an Iron Founder Engineer. In 1901 Frances was living with her parents - Michael DOYLE aged 56 born Ireland and Mary (possibly nee GALLAGHER?) aged 50 born Liverpool. Siblings still at home were Mary aged 21 and James aged 16. In 1891 Michael and Mary are living in Dryden Street with children Teresa (mother to Mary Teresa on the 1911), Mary Catherine, Frances and James. In 1881 they are in Limekiln Lane with children William, Teresa, Richard and Mary. Mary Teresa's mother Teresa DOYLE married James MILES in the June Quarter of 1893 in Liverpool. Their marriage was at St Josephs RC, James is stated to be the son of Patrick MILES of 43 Atkinson Street and Teresa is stated as being the daughter of Michael DOYLE of 47 Beau Street. In 1901 the census shows James and Teresa as living at 4 house 1 court Lambert Street Islington with children (Mary) Teresa aged 7, William aged 5 and Patrick aged 3 In 1911 James is in the Liverpool Workhouse and Infirmary at Brownlow Hill as a patient, (Mary) Teresa is living with her Aunt Frances as above, both William and Patrick are in the St Thomas Home, Hesketh Street, Preston where William is an Apprentice Tailor and of Teresa there seems to be no trace. I can only assume at the moment that they had no money coming in to live on whilst James was in hospital which is why the children have been sent away. I would love to hear from anyone who can link into these families. Regards, Dot Dorothy Holden Dover Kent England There are three things that can never be retrieved- the spoken word, time past and the neglected opportunity I volunteer for the Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness website www.raogk.org

Sorry Gill, NOT the Times newspaper.......................................but it is the Liverpool Mercury. Have been browsing both newspapers today. Obviously need to have a break! Kathy -------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hardy" <jwhardy@blueyonder.co.uk> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:05 PM To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com>; <Lancsgen-L-request@rootsweb.co> Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] REFORM SCHOOL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <GILLIAN52@aol.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:39 PM > Subject: [ENG-LIV] REFORM SCHOOL > >>I would like to know if possible where my great grandmother would have >> been sent. She was 13 years old and convicted of Larceny and her >> sentence >> was 14 days in prison and 5 years in a reform school. She lived in >> Liverpool >> and it was the year 1865. I've tried googling reform schools in >> Liverpool >> but >> all it seems to come up with is for boys her name was Martha Breckell, >> would appreciate any advice. > > Gillian, > > Martha was sent to the Liverpool Reformatory School for Girls, Mount > Vernon > Green, Edge Hill, Liverpool. > > Following her trial, the newspaper 'The Daily Courier' Saturday, March > 11th > 1865, printed the following... > > "Martha Breckell, 35, Rose Breckell, 30, and Martha Breckell 14, and Mary > Carter 58, were charged, the three first prisoners with having stolen some > boots, handkerchiefs and other articles belonging to Messrs.J.R.Jeffery > and > Co., and Mary Carter with having received part of the property, knowing it > to have been stolen. The elder Breckell was sentenced to eight months, > Rose > Breckell to four months and Martha Breckell the younger to fourteen days > imprisonment, and to be sent to the Edge Hill Reformatory for five years, > and Mary Carter to eight months imprisonment". > > The Liverpool Quarter Sessions, Home Office Returns Register 9th March > 1865, > recorded young Martha's sentence as "Imprisonment 14 days and then to be > sent to Liverpool Reformatory for girls - Mount Vernon Green for 5 years". > > Regards, > John Hardy. > > > > > > > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Carolyn There are a few online on the Lancashire message board. Just go to the boards (either <http://boards.ancestry.com> or <http://boards.rootsweb.com>), click on Advanced Search and enter "gore directory" (without the quotation marks) into the Subject of Message field. There are also Gore and Kelly directories that cover Liverpool on the Historical Directories site. See http://www.historicaldirectories.org and then select Lancashire as the region. UKGDL, a companion site to UKBMD, contains links to genealogical directories and lists on the Internet: <http://www.ukgdl.org.uk/>. Some of your fellow subscribers have copies of directories. If you're more specific about time periods and can provide some possible occupations, someone may be able to do a lookup or two for you. Hope that helps little! Kind regards, Lynne Carolyn Parker wrote: >Hi List, Can you tell me please how to access the Gore's Liverpool >Directories? Are they online? I am interested in late 1700's, early >1800's. surnames: IVESTER, MC CRUM >

HI Gill, i have a copy of the article from The Times newspaper and can send it to you if you have not got one. It gives a bit more detail on Martha's case than the Daily Courier. Kathy Wirral -------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hardy" <jwhardy@blueyonder.co.uk> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:05 PM To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com>; <Lancsgen-L-request@rootsweb.co> Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] REFORM SCHOOL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <GILLIAN52@aol.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:39 PM > Subject: [ENG-LIV] REFORM SCHOOL > >>I would like to know if possible where my great grandmother would have >> been sent. She was 13 years old and convicted of Larceny and her >> sentence >> was 14 days in prison and 5 years in a reform school. She lived in >> Liverpool >> and it was the year 1865. I've tried googling reform schools in >> Liverpool >> but >> all it seems to come up with is for boys her name was Martha Breckell, >> would appreciate any advice. > > Gillian, > > Martha was sent to the Liverpool Reformatory School for Girls, Mount > Vernon > Green, Edge Hill, Liverpool. > > Following her trial, the newspaper 'The Daily Courier' Saturday, March > 11th > 1865, printed the following... > > "Martha Breckell, 35, Rose Breckell, 30, and Martha Breckell 14, and Mary > Carter 58, were charged, the three first prisoners with having stolen some > boots, handkerchiefs and other articles belonging to Messrs.J.R.Jeffery > and > Co., and Mary Carter with having received part of the property, knowing it > to have been stolen. The elder Breckell was sentenced to eight months, > Rose > Breckell to four months and Martha Breckell the younger to fourteen days > imprisonment, and to be sent to the Edge Hill Reformatory for five years, > and Mary Carter to eight months imprisonment". > > The Liverpool Quarter Sessions, Home Office Returns Register 9th March > 1865, > recorded young Martha's sentence as "Imprisonment 14 days and then to be > sent to Liverpool Reformatory for girls - Mount Vernon Green for 5 years". > > Regards, > John Hardy. > > > > > > > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Here is an online site for Historical Directories. _http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/_ (http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/) Lionel In a message dated 8/23/2009 2:43:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ca.parker@comcast.net writes: Hi List, Can you tell me please how to access the Gore's Liverpool Directories? Are they online? I am interested in late 1700's, early 1800's. surnames: IVESTER, MC CRUM Thank you, Carolyn ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List, Can you tell me please how to access the Gore's Liverpool Directories? Are they online? I am interested in late 1700's, early 1800's. surnames: IVESTER, MC CRUM Thank you, Carolyn

Hi John, Ah, that makes sense. I can recall that there were large residences on the side of Mount Vernon that would back onto the grounds of St. Mary's church. Thanks for you help; now I'm left to wonder why my maternal Grandma was living (or at least giving it as her address) in a pub at the time of her marriage. Bill in Nanaimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hardy" <jwhardy@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] REFORM SCHOOL ----- Original Message ----- From: "William E. Gard" Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] REFORM SCHOOL > John, do you happen to know just where in Mount Vernon the reform school > was situated. I ask because I grew up in Edge Hill. My grandfather > married my > grandmother at St. Mary's church in 1904 and the marriage certificate > shows > him living at #3 Back Mount Vernon Green and Grandma living at #1 Irvine > Street (a still exisiting pub - Mount Vernon Hotel). (I never knew my > Grandpa to take a drink stronger than sarsasparilla). I had family living > in Albany Road that abuts Mount Vernon Green; I recall the Lybro factory > but that's it. > Bill in Nanaimo Hello Bill, I don't know its exact location but you may recall Mount Vernon Green runs between Mount Vernon and Hall Lane. Gore's 1900 Directory of Liverpool recorded six occupied properties in Mount Vernon Green:- No.3 Joseph Brown, Estate Agent. No.4 Colin Campbell, Cabinet Maker. No.5 William Wilson. No.6 Liverpool Girls Reformatory. No.7 Lancashire Female Refuge. No.8 Magdalene Institute. And from Joan Rimmer's book 'Yesterday's Naughty Children - A History of the Liverpool Reformatory Association, founded in 1855'... Number 6, Mount Vernon Green, a rambling private house situated on high ground at Edge Hill with open views front and back, was bought for £1,500 from James Addam in the spring of 1857 for its new function as a girls' reformatory. Its first registered owner was in residence in 1754, and the building's condition reflected its age. To make it habitable for between 50 and 60 girls, £198 was spent on alterations...' '...Between 1857 and 1921, several thousand girls passed through the portals of Mount Vernon Green and its associate establishment, Toxteth Park Girls Reformatory...' Clearly, the properties in Mount Vernon Green were quite substantial. Regards, John Hardy. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello everyone, After 20 years of looking he is still lost! (at least to me) 23 August 1869 JAMES Murray, age full, bachelor, tailor, residence Everton, father John Murray, also a tailor married Catherine Deegan, full age, spinster, living in Everton, father Malachi Deegan. Married in Church of St Augustine, in the Parish of Walton on the Hill, in the county of Lancaster, after banns, witnesses John Lawton and Margaret Murray (registration district West Derby and Toxteth Park). 1 Feb 1870 John Murray born at 34 Greek Street in the sub-district of Mount Pleasant, Liverpool, County of Lancaster, father's name is JOHN Murray, his mother is Catherine Murray formerly DeegEn, father is a tailor and his signature is J Murray and lives on Greek Street, registered 21 February 1870 (registration district Liverpool). The FAMILY cannot be found in the 1871 census. (I first used microfilm for all of Liverpool, then a CD for all of Lancashire and lastly Ancestry for all of England) When I first started doing this there was no Ancestry or CD’s!!! I have found a couple (with no child listed)that fits nicely, James Murray age 23 journeyman tailor from Scotland with wife Kate age 20 from Ireland. They are at 61 Grey Rock St in West Derby. The "family story" is that James was from Scotland. In the 1881 census of England at 19 Falkland Street in Municipal Ward of Lime Sheet, Parliamentary borough of Liverpool, urban sanitary district of Liverpool, ecclesiastical district of St Mary Magdelens were found in what seems to be an apartment house Catherine Murray, wife, married, age 31 a waistcoat maker born in Ireland with her son John, son, scholar, age 11 born in Lancashire, Liverpool. (she is not called a widow, nor is she head) There is in Manchester a James Murray, boarder, who is married, born in Paisley Scotland, and a woolen manufacturer, at the Corporation St Trevelyn Hotel. (?) He was the only one in all of Lancashire who seemed even a bit to fit. On 7 Aug 1889 Catherine Murray with son John Murray arrived from Liverpool on the ship Wisconsin in New York City, New York, US. They then proceed to Oakland, CA. In Oakland I have found no one they stayed with, the ships record does not have a column for where immigrants were going or with whom they would be staying. Very few others on the ship were from Liverpool )those boarding in Liverpool were from other countries and then there was a stop in Ireland before heading for NY. St Augustine's Church, Greek Street and Falkland Street are all very close together- it seems "likely" that they were there in 1871 but missed?? or their son was not listed with the one suspicious couple?? I have used all Liverpool directories available in the Family History Library in Salt Lake City and back tracked all tailors with the names James and John to the census records to no avail. Son John's death certificate states his father was John Murray born in Scotland My grandmother aka Mrs John Murray was not always truthful about her husband or actually herself. She also always said her husband John Murray (1870-1911) was born in Manchester, which he was not and described his Mom as a fine English lady when she was Irish. My Dad, Douglas, was only two when his Dad, John, died so what he knew about his Dad came thru his Mom. The family story is that James/ John died and then Catherine and John (1870-1911) came to the US. In the ship’s record they were not in steerage but a cabin of sorts so they had a bit of money- which I found surprising. In the US census for 1900 and 1910 John Murray (1870-1911) listed his birth in England and his Dad’s birth in Scotland and his Mom’s in Ireland. I made a list of James Murray deaths in Lancashire for 1871 to Aug 1889 and then ruled out all those who were born after 1855 and before 1821. That left me with 16 possibles. I then prioritized them with the assumptions that James/John was probably born between 1840- 1852 as when they were married in 1869 Catherine was no more than 18. I sent for a death record for my first six choices specifying tailor as profession. They did not send them as he was not a tailor. I then decided this process was going to cost a lot of money. I have done a number of searches in the records in the Family History Library in Salt Lake all to no avail. Including wills, catholic church records in the area, as Catherine definitely was Catholic. Lastly I have had my brother the LAST surviving male in this Murray line back to James/John have his DNA test done so that someday that might be of help. I won't give up but after watching this site for a bit before presenting my dilemma it seems many of you are quite good sleuths and have access to records that I don't. I will be grateful for any thoughts, recommendations or help. Joan Murray Armistead, Hollywood, MD 23A

Thanks Rachel, much appreciated. Regards Gill

Many thanks John, mm seems Martha and her family were quite colourful lol. Regards Gill

Thanks Kathy, quite an interesting case and had no idea about all of this- what a family lol. Gill

I would just like to thank Chris, Kathy and everyone else who has sent information regarding my query on Martha Breckell and Reform schools. Chris has made a great breakthrough for me on this family which I really appreciate. Thanks again everyone. Regards Gill

Many thanks Rachel also the ironic thing there is that you mention the author of the book - another part of the family is Rimmer lol. Regards Gill

----- Original Message ----- From: <GILLIAN52@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:39 PM Subject: [ENG-LIV] REFORM SCHOOL >I would like to know if possible where my great grandmother would have > been sent. She was 13 years old and convicted of Larceny and her sentence > was 14 days in prison and 5 years in a reform school. She lived in > Liverpool > and it was the year 1865. I've tried googling reform schools in Liverpool > but > all it seems to come up with is for boys her name was Martha Breckell, > would appreciate any advice. Gillian, Martha was sent to the Liverpool Reformatory School for Girls, Mount Vernon Green, Edge Hill, Liverpool. Following her trial, the newspaper 'The Daily Courier' Saturday, March 11th 1865, printed the following... "Martha Breckell, 35, Rose Breckell, 30, and Martha Breckell 14, and Mary Carter 58, were charged, the three first prisoners with having stolen some boots, handkerchiefs and other articles belonging to Messrs.J.R.Jeffery and Co., and Mary Carter with having received part of the property, knowing it to have been stolen. The elder Breckell was sentenced to eight months, Rose Breckell to four months and Martha Breckell the younger to fourteen days imprisonment, and to be sent to the Edge Hill Reformatory for five years, and Mary Carter to eight months imprisonment". The Liverpool Quarter Sessions, Home Office Returns Register 9th March 1865, recorded young Martha's sentence as "Imprisonment 14 days and then to be sent to Liverpool Reformatory for girls - Mount Vernon Green for 5 years". Regards, John Hardy.

An important source is: http://www.missing-ancestors.com/index.html I am currently working on transcribing the 1870 Directory, but have not yet got to institutions. I'll have a look next time I'm in the library. Before the Education Act, many of the Industrial schools were used for this purpose. The National Archives also has: CHILDREN Certificates granted in respect of Liverpool Girls Reformatory. Covering dates 1857-1904 Availability Open Document, Open Description, Normal Closure before FOI Act: 30 years Former reference (Department) A51731 -----Original Message----- From: eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-liverpool-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of GILLIAN52@aol.com Sent: 20 August 2009 20:39 To: Lancsgen-L-request@rootsweb.co; ENG-LIVERPOOL@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LIV] REFORM SCHOOL I would like to know if possible where my great grandmother would have been sent. She was 13 years old and convicted of Larceny and her sentence was 14 days in prison and 5 years in a reform school. She lived in Liverpool and it was the year 1865. I've tried googling reform schools in Liverpool but all it seems to come up with is for boys her name was Martha Breckell, would appreciate any advice. Regards Gill ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message