I always knew that there was a Girls Reform School in that area Bill but didn't quite know which building it was! Marged Thanks for this Marged. It was still standing in all its Victoria splendour as I passed it each day as I walked from home (Martensen Street) down to the Liverpool Institute. I left school December 1947 but it was still there years afterwards.

A clue to this might be if Michael is included in the 1876 will. If not, it looks as if John revised his will each time a son died. I have a will where nothing is left to a daughter who has received a lot of help during her father's lifetime. I don't think that was unusual. You might expect James's son to be given what he would have been due, but not if he had already received his portion. So I speculate that this is how mother and son got the money for their cabin. Next question, did all the other sons marry? Unmarried aunts and uncles can be useful as they tend to leave their money to nephews and nieces, and you sometimes get quite a detailed family tree! As so often with these threads your story has made me rethink part of my own research. We have been trying for ages to link up my partners known ancestor Robert BARLOW to a possible father and large selection of brothers. We know that there was a Robert in the family from an earlier census and ours fits the gap, but we dont have absolute proof. The patriarch Joseph BARLOW had a bleaching and dyeing factory in Radcliffe Bridge, Lancs . Robert predeceased him by a few months, in 1871, and neither he nor his widow and her children are mentioned in old Joe's will, despite being obviously less well off than the rest, and Robert is not on the family gravestone. We had speculated there was a falling out, but could it be that either through fecklessness or because of his death, Robert and his family had received their share already. It might seem odd not to mention him at all but being practical folk, maybe Joe didn't see the point. I just got Robert's death cert so will need to check if Joe's will was made just after he died. Much later on one of Robert's descendants inherited enough cash to buy a modest house. No-one now knows where from, but I feel sure the ultimate source is the 1871 will. Follow the money, as they say. Judy On 25 Aug 2009, at 03:23, Joan Armistead wrote: > Judy, > > Thank you for your sleuthing! I was trying to keep my description of > my missing ggrandfather a bit short and didn't include one part which > I will share with you. Because I have been looking for James/John for > soooo long I went back to Scotland at one point (they have such good > records online). I looked for all the John Murray's who were tailors > in 1851 (figuring James/Johns father would have a family in that time > period) and followed the 25- 30 that I found forward. If they had a > son named James I followed the family until James died young, married > and settled down or became something other than a tailor. Then I took > the rest and if James was still in Scotland in 1871 and 1881 dropped > them. That left me surprisingly with one family in Lanarkshire. That > John Murray the tailor had 7 sons- Andrew born 1831, Thomas 1834, > Robert 1836, John 1839, Michael 1842, James 1848, and George 1851. > Michael died at 34 in Edinburgh working as a clerk, John dies at age > 27. I then followed the other 5 sons. Andrew becomes a tailor, marries > a MARGARET Sommerville he has 4 children in Scotland, he is living in > Edinburgh in 1861 as a tailor foreman. Andrew and his family disappear > from Scotland in the 1871 census. He turns up in LIVERPOOL with his > family and working as a tailor foreman. In 1881 he is still in > Liverpool but is now a master tailor with 16 workers. In 1871 Andrew > and his family were living in the same area as Catherine and James > were married and their son John was born. The witnesses were John > Lawton who I believe was a tailor after looking at the few John > Lawton's living in Liverpool and Margaret Murray was the name of > Andrews wife. > > Back in Scotland the son Thomas became a bootmaker, Robert became a > master tailor, and George becomes a teacher. James born in 1848 is > with his family in 1851 and 1861 and then disappears from the 1871 > census. He never returns to Scotland and never dies in Scotland. > > The father John dies in 1884 and his wife in 1885. His will had been > written in August 1876 and he wills tailor stones to Andrew, Robert > and James and other items to those who are not tailors. There is a > codicil written later in which the sons Andrew, Robert, and George > are mentioned in Oct 1881. In July 1884 when John the father dies- > Robert, George, Thomas, and Andrew are mentioned, James is not. None > of this proves anything but I found highly suspicious. > > I looked at your find in Manchester and found the family in 1871- by > then both the father James and the husband of Margaret have died and > they are all living with the daughter Agnes and her husband but James > is not to be found. Did he die? Did he leave the area? Did he go yo > Liverpool? ;-) > > > On Aug 23, 2009, at 7:43 PM, judy olsen wrote: > >> I looked for Margaret Murray working on the hypothesis that she might >> be a sister. I found this family in Manchester in 1861. Bearing in >> mind that Catherine was fibbing when she said she was of full age, >> James would be 18 or so as well. This would be easier if they were >> away from their home town. >> >> I am stretching it a bit but Margaret the big sister might have used >> her maiden surname. Being Scottish this would not be all that >> unusual. >> >> If you look at this family you will see that they were all born in >> Scotland except James, the youngest, born Manchester. >> >> The father's job is 'maker up'. I think that might be one of the >> tailoring trades. >> >> That was another point I wanted to make -when you sent for the death >> certs they would be obliged to say there was no match if you >> specified tailor. He could have changed job or moved into another job >> in the same trade. >> >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> 1861 census >> >> >> Name: Margaret Rhind >> [Margaret Murray] >> Age: 20 >> Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 >> Relation: Daughter >> Spouse's Name: William >> Father's Name: James >> Mother's Name: Agness >> Gender: Female >> Where born: Glasgow, Scotland >> Civil parish: Manchester >> Ecclesiastical parish: St James >> County/Island: Lancashire >> Country: England >> Street Address: >> >> Occupation: >> >> Condition as to marriage: >> >> View image >> Registration district: Manchester >> Sub-registration district: London Road >> ED, institution, or vessel: 8 >> Neighbors: View others on page >> Household schedule number: 128 >> Household Members: >> Name Age >> James Murray 50 >> Agness Murray 50 >> Jonathan A Murray 19 >> William Rhind 21 >> Margaret Rhind 20 >> Agness Murray 13 >> James Murray 10 >> View >> Original >> Record >> >> >> View original image >> View blank form >> >> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >> >> Admin Message - List guidelines: >> http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm >> >> The list admin can be contacted at >> Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG- >> LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Judy, John Murray's will specifically says that if a son dies that their children receive the portion. You and I are thinking alike on this. ;-) Michael died in April 1876 and the original will was written in August 1876- Michael's death might have been an impetus in writing his will. I have marriages for Andrew, Robert, Thomas and George- the only sons known to survive the father. This might help you if you had not considered it. John's will left everything to his wife until her death at which time his bequests would be finalized. In addition all of his 4 known living sons had borrowed money from him in varying amounts and that was taken care of in the codicil. Possibly your Robert Barlow's family inherited after the wife died or his will was tied up in the courts? Good luck with the Barlows, Joan Murray Armistead On Aug 25, 2009, at 4:30 AM, judy olsen wrote: > > A clue to this might be if Michael is included in the 1876 will. If > not, it looks as if John revised his will each time a son died. I > have a will where nothing is left to a daughter who has received a > lot of help during her father's lifetime. I don't think that was > unusual. You might expect James's son to be given what he would have > been due, but not if he had already received his portion. So I > speculate that this is how mother and son got the money for their > cabin. > > Next question, did all the other sons marry? Unmarried aunts and > uncles can be useful as they tend to leave their money to nephews and > nieces, and you sometimes get quite a detailed family tree! > > As so often with these threads your story has made me rethink part of > my own research. We have been trying for ages to link up my partners > known ancestor Robert BARLOW to a possible father and large selection > of brothers. We know that there was a Robert in the family from an > earlier census and ours fits the gap, but we dont have absolute > proof. The patriarch Joseph BARLOW had a bleaching and dyeing > factory in Radcliffe Bridge, Lancs . Robert predeceased him by a few > months, in 1871, and neither he nor his widow and her children are > mentioned in old Joe's will, despite being obviously less well off > than the rest, and Robert is not on the family gravestone. We had > speculated there was a falling out, but could it be that either > through fecklessness or because of his death, Robert and his family > had received their share already. It might seem odd not to mention > him at all but being practical folk, maybe Joe didn't see the point. > I just got Robert's death cert so will need to check if Joe's will > was made just after he died. > > Much later on one of Robert's descendants inherited enough cash to > buy a modest house. No-one now knows where from, but I feel sure the > ultimate source is the 1871 will. Follow the money, as they say. > > > Judy > > > > > > > > > > On 25 Aug 2009, at 03:23, Joan Armistead wrote: > >> Judy, >> >> Thank you for your sleuthing! I was trying to keep my description >> of >> my missing ggrandfather a bit short and didn't include one part which >> I will share with you. Because I have been looking for James/John for >> soooo long I went back to Scotland at one point (they have such good >> records online). I looked for all the John Murray's who were tailors >> in 1851 (figuring James/Johns father would have a family in that time >> period) and followed the 25- 30 that I found forward. If they had a >> son named James I followed the family until James died young, married >> and settled down or became something other than a tailor. Then I took >> the rest and if James was still in Scotland in 1871 and 1881 dropped >> them. That left me surprisingly with one family in Lanarkshire. That >> John Murray the tailor had 7 sons- Andrew born 1831, Thomas 1834, >> Robert 1836, John 1839, Michael 1842, James 1848, and George 1851. >> Michael died at 34 in Edinburgh working as a clerk, John dies at age >> 27. I then followed the other 5 sons. Andrew becomes a tailor, >> marries >> a MARGARET Sommerville he has 4 children in Scotland, he is living in >> Edinburgh in 1861 as a tailor foreman. Andrew and his family >> disappear >> from Scotland in the 1871 census. He turns up in LIVERPOOL with his >> family and working as a tailor foreman. In 1881 he is still in >> Liverpool but is now a master tailor with 16 workers. In 1871 Andrew >> and his family were living in the same area as Catherine and James >> were married and their son John was born. The witnesses were John >> Lawton who I believe was a tailor after looking at the few John >> Lawton's living in Liverpool and Margaret Murray was the name of >> Andrews wife. >> >> Back in Scotland the son Thomas became a bootmaker, Robert became a >> master tailor, and George becomes a teacher. James born in 1848 is >> with his family in 1851 and 1861 and then disappears from the 1871 >> census. He never returns to Scotland and never dies in Scotland. >> >> The father John dies in 1884 and his wife in 1885. His will had been >> written in August 1876 and he wills tailor stones to Andrew, Robert >> and James and other items to those who are not tailors. There is a >> codicil written later in which the sons Andrew, Robert, and George >> are mentioned in Oct 1881. In July 1884 when John the father dies- >> Robert, George, Thomas, and Andrew are mentioned, James is not. None >> of this proves anything but I found highly suspicious. >> >> I looked at your find in Manchester and found the family in 1871- by >> then both the father James and the husband of Margaret have died and >> they are all living with the daughter Agnes and her husband but James >> is not to be found. Did he die? Did he leave the area? Did he go yo >> Liverpool? ;-) >> >> >> On Aug 23, 2009, at 7:43 PM, judy olsen wrote: >> >>> I looked for Margaret Murray working on the hypothesis that she >>> might >>> be a sister. I found this family in Manchester in 1861. Bearing in >>> mind that Catherine was fibbing when she said she was of full age, >>> James would be 18 or so as well. This would be easier if they were >>> away from their home town. >>> >>> I am stretching it a bit but Margaret the big sister might have used >>> her maiden surname. Being Scottish this would not be all that >>> unusual. >>> >>> If you look at this family you will see that they were all born in >>> Scotland except James, the youngest, born Manchester. >>> >>> The father's job is 'maker up'. I think that might be one of the >>> tailoring trades. >>> >>> That was another point I wanted to make -when you sent for the death >>> certs they would be obliged to say there was no match if you >>> specified tailor. He could have changed job or moved into another >>> job >>> in the same trade. >>> >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> >>> >>> 1861 census >>> >>> >>> Name: Margaret Rhind >>> [Margaret Murray] >>> Age: 20 >>> Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 >>> Relation: Daughter >>> Spouse's Name: William >>> Father's Name: James >>> Mother's Name: Agness >>> Gender: Female >>> Where born: Glasgow, Scotland >>> Civil parish: Manchester >>> Ecclesiastical parish: St James >>> County/Island: Lancashire >>> Country: England >>> Street Address: >>> >>> Occupation: >>> >>> Condition as to marriage: >>> >>> View image >>> Registration district: Manchester >>> Sub-registration district: London Road >>> ED, institution, or vessel: 8 >>> Neighbors: View others on page >>> Household schedule number: 128 >>> Household Members: >>> Name Age >>> James Murray 50 >>> Agness Murray 50 >>> Jonathan A Murray 19 >>> William Rhind 21 >>> Margaret Rhind 20 >>> Agness Murray 13 >>> James Murray 10 >>> View >>> Original >>> Record >>> >>> >>> View original image >>> View blank form >>> >>> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >>> >>> Admin Message - List guidelines: >>> http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/ >>> AdminMessage.htm >>> >>> The list admin can be contacted at >>> Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG- >>> LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >> >> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >> >> Admin Message - List guidelines: >> http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm >> >> The list admin can be contacted at >> Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Hi Bonnie, This is one data base you can use. If you're pretty sure of the names and spellings, you can do the search. But, many of the children either had their names wirtten down incorrectly, or the younger ones didn't know their surnames, or some of them changed their names - to go along with their new country. (Lots of stories in the archives of the BHC List.) http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/index-e.html And, at that site you can use the wildcard feature. Or, search by first-name only, or search by location or ship, etc., only. Another thing you can do is to search the archives of the British Home Children List to see if your family's surname has already been discussed. My great-grandfather was 14 when he left Liverpool and went to Halifax in 1874. My great-grandmother was supposed to come over that year, at 14, with her younger siblings, but had misbehaved. So, she had to join them later. I have found out that Stanley and Mary had become friends at the Liverpool Sheltering Homes. So, they have to find each other after they got to Nova Scotia. So, your grandfather and his sister were probably "home children" in Canada. If you have trouble finding them in that data base, let me know. There are other data bases, but they are mostly researcher-contributed. Betty ----- Original Message ----- From: "bonnie pelletier" <pelletierbonnie@hotmail.com> To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Reform Ships and Child Migrants I have an interest in this subject. Did these ships transport children in 1903? My Grandfather never explained how he got to Canada. In 1903 both his parents died in Liverpool. There were a few kids in the family. My Grandfather was 13 and his sister 14 yrs old. They came to Canada. I was told that his sister came to get married but she was only 14. He came with her. She did marry a Canadian but I don't know how they would have meet before when she was living in England and him in Ontario, Canada. Bonnie Vancouver, BC Canada

Judy, Thank you for your sleuthing! I was trying to keep my description of my missing ggrandfather a bit short and didn't include one part which I will share with you. Because I have been looking for James/John for soooo long I went back to Scotland at one point (they have such good records online). I looked for all the John Murray's who were tailors in 1851 (figuring James/Johns father would have a family in that time period) and followed the 25- 30 that I found forward. If they had a son named James I followed the family until James died young, married and settled down or became something other than a tailor. Then I took the rest and if James was still in Scotland in 1871 and 1881 dropped them. That left me surprisingly with one family in Lanarkshire. That John Murray the tailor had 7 sons- Andrew born 1831, Thomas 1834, Robert 1836, John 1839, Michael 1842, James 1848, and George 1851. Michael died at 34 in Edinburgh working as a clerk, John dies at age 27. I then followed the other 5 sons. Andrew becomes a tailor, marries a MARGARET Sommerville he has 4 children in Scotland, he is living in Edinburgh in 1861 as a tailor foreman. Andrew and his family disappear from Scotland in the 1871 census. He turns up in LIVERPOOL with his family and working as a tailor foreman. In 1881 he is still in Liverpool but is now a master tailor with 16 workers. In 1871 Andrew and his family were living in the same area as Catherine and James were married and their son John was born. The witnesses were John Lawton who I believe was a tailor after looking at the few John Lawton's living in Liverpool and Margaret Murray was the name of Andrews wife. Back in Scotland the son Thomas became a bootmaker, Robert became a master tailor, and George becomes a teacher. James born in 1848 is with his family in 1851 and 1861 and then disappears from the 1871 census. He never returns to Scotland and never dies in Scotland. The father John dies in 1884 and his wife in 1885. His will had been written in August 1876 and he wills tailor stones to Andrew, Robert and James and other items to those who are not tailors. There is a codicil written later in which the sons Andrew, Robert, and George are mentioned in Oct 1881. In July 1884 when John the father dies- Robert, George, Thomas, and Andrew are mentioned, James is not. None of this proves anything but I found highly suspicious. I looked at your find in Manchester and found the family in 1871- by then both the father James and the husband of Margaret have died and they are all living with the daughter Agnes and her husband but James is not to be found. Did he die? Did he leave the area? Did he go yo Liverpool? ;-) On Aug 23, 2009, at 7:43 PM, judy olsen wrote: > I looked for Margaret Murray working on the hypothesis that she might > be a sister. I found this family in Manchester in 1861. Bearing in > mind that Catherine was fibbing when she said she was of full age, > James would be 18 or so as well. This would be easier if they were > away from their home town. > > I am stretching it a bit but Margaret the big sister might have used > her maiden surname. Being Scottish this would not be all that unusual. > > If you look at this family you will see that they were all born in > Scotland except James, the youngest, born Manchester. > > The father's job is 'maker up'. I think that might be one of the > tailoring trades. > > That was another point I wanted to make -when you sent for the death > certs they would be obliged to say there was no match if you > specified tailor. He could have changed job or moved into another job > in the same trade. > > > Judy > > > > 1861 census > > > Name: Margaret Rhind > [Margaret Murray] > Age: 20 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 > Relation: Daughter > Spouse's Name: William > Father's Name: James > Mother's Name: Agness > Gender: Female > Where born: Glasgow, Scotland > Civil parish: Manchester > Ecclesiastical parish: St James > County/Island: Lancashire > Country: England > Street Address: > > Occupation: > > Condition as to marriage: > > View image > Registration district: Manchester > Sub-registration district: London Road > ED, institution, or vessel: 8 > Neighbors: View others on page > Household schedule number: 128 > Household Members: > Name Age > James Murray 50 > Agness Murray 50 > Jonathan A Murray 19 > William Rhind 21 > Margaret Rhind 20 > Agness Murray 13 > James Murray 10 > View > Original > Record > > > View original image > View blank form > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Hello Betty: I have an interest in this subject. Did these ships transport children in 1903? My Grandfather never explained how he got to Canada. In 1903 both his parents died in Liverpool. There were a few kids in the family. My Grandfather was 13 and his sister 14 yrs old. They came to Canada. I was told that his sister came to get married but she was only 14. He came with her. She did marry a Canadian but I don't know how they would have meet before when she was living in England and him in Ontario, Canada. Another member of the family thought they came to work on farms. Is there any way to get the names of the kids that came over on these ships? Looking forward to your reply. Bonnie Vancouver, BC Canada > From: bbffrrpp@comcast.net > To: eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:42:45 -0400 > Subject: [ENG-LIV] Reform Ships and Child Migrants > > Hello, > > The "Akbar Reform Ship" has been mentioned on this List and the Lancsgen > List, and I have an interest in it because of Edward CORKILL being on it in > ~1872. He was the older brother of the 5 CORKILL children who went to > live in the Liverpool Sheltering Homes when it opened in 1873. Those > children were "shipped to Nova Scotia" in 1874. But, Edward somehow got > to the other end of Canada - Vancouver, British Columbia. > > I just read over the weekend on the Lancashire Message Board that there was > also the Clarence Reform Ship, this one for Catholic boys. And, the > historian said that the boys would then go onto the "sailing ships." My > question is whether the officials placed the boys on both ships - onto > sailing ships, or whether the boys had to make the arrangements themselves. > > It has been mentioned that these ships are discussed on the book, > "Yesterday's Naughty Children ..." So, I'm going to try to borrow the > book from my local library. This is the 2nd book I will be requesting. > For 2 years I've been wanting to borrow an excellent book on the "home > children" in Canada, written by Marjorie Kohli: "Golden Bridge: Young > Immigrants to Canada ...." (2003). I found out that they are both > available at university libraries in New England. > > Just a reminder that the latest web site about the "home children, Canada" > (aka BHC) is: > > http://www.britishhomechildren.org/ > > But, you will find many more sites about all the children "shipped to > Canada" by officials in the U.K. by a Google search for either: "British > Home Children" or "Home Children, Canada." And, so many people in > Canada and the USA are "spreading the word" that more books are being > written about them each year. And, now there are "plays" on stage about > them. We, on the BHC List, are trying hard to get the "home children" > officially discussed in Canada's schools. > > Betty (near Lowell, MA, USA) > > > (on Lists for 8 years; now an Administrator for 8 Lists) > > > FYI: The youngest of the CORKILL children who were shipped to Canada were > 2 boys, Ages 5 and 3. They and their 3 sisters all went to different > homes in Nova Scotia. The sisters all married young. The boys did not > fare so well. John married later in life, married an older woman, never > had children, and then died before she did. Robert lived into his 60's > and never married. > > (There is now a CORKILL List.) > > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Stay in the loop and chat with friends, right from your inbox! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671354

Thanks for this Marged. It was still standing in all its Victoria splendour as I passed it each day as I walked from home (Martensen Street) down to the Liverpool Institute. I left school December 1947 but it was still there years afterwards. Bill in Nanaimo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marged" <marged36@btinternet.com> To: <ENG-LIVERPOOL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:06 AM Subject: [ENG-LIV] QUEENSLAND STREET DAY INDUSTRIAL > Here's another link > > > Click here: QUEENSLAND STREET DAY INDUSTRIAL > a.. QUEENSLAND STREET DAY INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL, LIVERPOOL LANCASHIRE. > a.k.a. > > a.. THE LIVERPOOL INDUSTRIAL DAY SCHOOL, QUEENSLAND STREET, EDGE HILL, > LIVERPOOL > Certified 4th February 1884. Re-certified 5th June 1903 for 280 > children. > > Cessation of certification or closure in 1928. > > Erected in 1883 and opened in 1884. A compact and well arranged > purpose-built school. A structure of red brick consisting of a basement > and two floors above, and on each side of the building are playgrounds. > The > school was established for the reception of neglected children in order to > prepare them for elementary education; and is managed by a committee of > the > Liverpool School Board, the parents or friends of the children paying 2/- > weekly for each child, and for this small sum, the children are educated, > fed and taught useful trades, such as mat and sack making. They continue > under the supervision of the committee for three years, during which > period > they are transferred to local elementary school for the advancement of > their > education before starting life. > > STAFF > > 1884 - Superintendent Mrs Charlotte Parry, formerly superintendent of the > South Corporation Day Industrial School ; teachers, Miss Rigby, Miss > Armstrong and Miss Lee. > > 1891 - Superintendent Miss Elizabeth Cregg ; assistant Miss Rigby ; > assistant teachers Miss Ronayne, Miss Willy, Miss Watmough, Miss Mann and > Miss Pursell ; clerk Miss Spencer ; caretaker Mr Jones. > > 1893 - Superintendent Miss Elizabeth Cregg ; first assistant Miss Waite ; > assistant teachers Miss Purcell, Miss Willie, Miss Redmond and Miss > Goodacre > ; caretaker Mr J.R. Jones ; cook Mrs McGowan ; clerk Miss O'Brien. > > 1900 - Superintendent Miss Cregg ; teachers Mrs Benson, Miss Willie, Miss > Campbell, Mrs Dix, Miss Redmond and Miss Green ; clerk Miss O'Brien. > > 1903 - Superintendent Miss Cregg ; teachers Mrs M. Benson and the misses > A. Willie, B Green and Redmond. Miss Baxter left 31st July 1902 and was > succeeded by Miss Whitehead on 1st February 1903. Miss Campbell left on > 31st December 1903 and was succeeded by Miss Purcell on 1st February 1903. > Clerk Miss J. O'Brien, industrial mistress Miss E. Loughlin. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here's another link Click here: QUEENSLAND STREET DAY INDUSTRIAL a.. QUEENSLAND STREET DAY INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL, LIVERPOOL LANCASHIRE. a.k.a. a.. THE LIVERPOOL INDUSTRIAL DAY SCHOOL, QUEENSLAND STREET, EDGE HILL, LIVERPOOL Certified 4th February 1884. Re-certified 5th June 1903 for 280 children. Cessation of certification or closure in 1928. Erected in 1883 and opened in 1884. A compact and well arranged purpose-built school. A structure of red brick consisting of a basement and two floors above, and on each side of the building are playgrounds. The school was established for the reception of neglected children in order to prepare them for elementary education; and is managed by a committee of the Liverpool School Board, the parents or friends of the children paying 2/- weekly for each child, and for this small sum, the children are educated, fed and taught useful trades, such as mat and sack making. They continue under the supervision of the committee for three years, during which period they are transferred to local elementary school for the advancement of their education before starting life. STAFF 1884 - Superintendent Mrs Charlotte Parry, formerly superintendent of the South Corporation Day Industrial School ; teachers, Miss Rigby, Miss Armstrong and Miss Lee. 1891 - Superintendent Miss Elizabeth Cregg ; assistant Miss Rigby ; assistant teachers Miss Ronayne, Miss Willy, Miss Watmough, Miss Mann and Miss Pursell ; clerk Miss Spencer ; caretaker Mr Jones. 1893 - Superintendent Miss Elizabeth Cregg ; first assistant Miss Waite ; assistant teachers Miss Purcell, Miss Willie, Miss Redmond and Miss Goodacre ; caretaker Mr J.R. Jones ; cook Mrs McGowan ; clerk Miss O'Brien. 1900 - Superintendent Miss Cregg ; teachers Mrs Benson, Miss Willie, Miss Campbell, Mrs Dix, Miss Redmond and Miss Green ; clerk Miss O'Brien. 1903 - Superintendent Miss Cregg ; teachers Mrs M. Benson and the misses A. Willie, B Green and Redmond. Miss Baxter left 31st July 1902 and was succeeded by Miss Whitehead on 1st February 1903. Miss Campbell left on 31st December 1903 and was succeeded by Miss Purcell on 1st February 1903. Clerk Miss J. O'Brien, industrial mistress Miss E. Loughlin. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope I'm not duplicating anything that's been sent before Click here: LIVERPOOL REFORMATORY SCHOOL FOR GIRLS MOUNT VERNON http://www.missing-ancestors.com/liverpool_reformatory_school_girls%20mount%20vernon%20info.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

kathybinns@aol.com wrote snip<Remove the final letter 'l' from the link and it works fine for me Hi Kathy Thank you Christine

Remove the final letter 'l' from the link and it works fine for me. Kathy Wirral -------------------------------------------------- From: "yorkshire.123" <yorkshire.123@virgin.net> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:26 PM To: <eng-liverpool@rootsweb.com> Cc: <th005c0859@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Gore's Liverpool directories access? > th005c0859@blueyonder.co.uk > wrote > snip< www.liverpool-ancestors.co.uk/gores.html > > Hi Terry > I have tried the link but i get an error 404 > can you help > Thanks > Christine > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

th005c0859@blueyonder.co.uk wrote snip< www.liverpool-ancestors.co.uk/gores.html Hi Terry I have tried the link but i get an error 404 can you help Thanks Christine

Thank you Duncan! I am hoping if the censuses of 1871 and 1881 missed the "complete" family and therefore my certainty about my great grandfather that the directories between 1871 and 1889 (when Mom and son left) might be able to. Will let you know ;-) Joan Murray Armistead On Aug 23, 2009, at 7:15 PM, Duncan Smith wrote: > Joan was asking about access to Gore's directories 1871-1889. > > Well if you want to purchase CD versions I found an 1873 at a site > www.jigrah.co.uk > > > they also appear to have the 1914 Gore's there too. > > The site http://www.parishchest.com/ > > not only has the 1873 Gore's but also the 1881 Kelly's. > > For those listers who want free Gore's (at least extracts) then try > http://www.liverpool-schools.co.uk/html/clarence_st.html > > which has quite a number, although none from the 1870's or 1880's. > > Duncan, Dundee > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > Eng-Liverpool-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LIVERPOOL-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Dear Lister`s, I am looking HARRIET frost, who was born 1882 in Liverpool, Lancashire.... Daughter of, William and Mary frost, ..... The parents may be German?.... In 1891 Harriet was at the Industrial school in Liverpool, NILE STREET and we do not know why?... We do not seem to be able to find her again, although we have been told verbally that Harriet was a cook in, Deal in KENT, after being in the school.... She married, Joseph William frost, 1901/2?........ If anyone could help with this look up, we would be very grateful! We want to know when she was a cook in Deal in Kent?...Also anything sightings we have not seen in other census returns?.... I have ordered her birth and marriage certificates... still waiting for them! Many Thanks, Sandra......

Hello, The "Akbar Reform Ship" has been mentioned on this List and the Lancsgen List, and I have an interest in it because of Edward CORKILL being on it in ~1872. He was the older brother of the 5 CORKILL children who went to live in the Liverpool Sheltering Homes when it opened in 1873. Those children were "shipped to Nova Scotia" in 1874. But, Edward somehow got to the other end of Canada - Vancouver, British Columbia. I just read over the weekend on the Lancashire Message Board that there was also the Clarence Reform Ship, this one for Catholic boys. And, the historian said that the boys would then go onto the "sailing ships." My question is whether the officials placed the boys on both ships - onto sailing ships, or whether the boys had to make the arrangements themselves. It has been mentioned that these ships are discussed on the book, "Yesterday's Naughty Children ..." So, I'm going to try to borrow the book from my local library. This is the 2nd book I will be requesting. For 2 years I've been wanting to borrow an excellent book on the "home children" in Canada, written by Marjorie Kohli: "Golden Bridge: Young Immigrants to Canada ...." (2003). I found out that they are both available at university libraries in New England. Just a reminder that the latest web site about the "home children, Canada" (aka BHC) is: http://www.britishhomechildren.org/ But, you will find many more sites about all the children "shipped to Canada" by officials in the U.K. by a Google search for either: "British Home Children" or "Home Children, Canada." And, so many people in Canada and the USA are "spreading the word" that more books are being written about them each year. And, now there are "plays" on stage about them. We, on the BHC List, are trying hard to get the "home children" officially discussed in Canada's schools. Betty (near Lowell, MA, USA) (on Lists for 8 years; now an Administrator for 8 Lists) FYI: The youngest of the CORKILL children who were shipped to Canada were 2 boys, Ages 5 and 3. They and their 3 sisters all went to different homes in Nova Scotia. The sisters all married young. The boys did not fare so well. John married later in life, married an older woman, never had children, and then died before she did. Robert lived into his 60's and never married. (There is now a CORKILL List.)

I looked for Margaret Murray working on the hypothesis that she might be a sister. I found this family in Manchester in 1861. Bearing in mind that Catherine was fibbing when she said she was of full age, James would be 18 or so as well. This would be easier if they were away from their home town. I am stretching it a bit but Margaret the big sister might have used her maiden surname. Being Scottish this would not be all that unusual. If you look at this family you will see that they were all born in Scotland except James, the youngest, born Manchester. The father's job is 'maker up'. I think that might be one of the tailoring trades. That was another point I wanted to make -when you sent for the death certs they would be obliged to say there was no match if you specified tailor. He could have changed job or moved into another job in the same trade. Judy 1861 census Name: Margaret Rhind [Margaret Murray] Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 Relation: Daughter Spouse's Name: William Father's Name: James Mother's Name: Agness Gender: Female Where born: Glasgow, Scotland Civil parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical parish: St James County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: London Road ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 128 Household Members: Name Age James Murray 50 Agness Murray 50 Jonathan A Murray 19 William Rhind 21 Margaret Rhind 20 Agness Murray 13 James Murray 10 View Original Record View original image View blank form

Joan was asking about access to Gore's directories 1871-1889. Well if you want to purchase CD versions I found an 1873 at a site www.jigrah.co.uk they also appear to have the 1914 Gore's there too. The site http://www.parishchest.com/ not only has the 1873 Gore's but also the 1881 Kelly's. For those listers who want free Gore's (at least extracts) then try http://www.liverpool-schools.co.uk/html/clarence_st.html which has quite a number, although none from the 1870's or 1880's. Duncan, Dundee

----- Original Message ----- From: "William E. Gard" Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] REFORM SCHOOL > John, do you happen to know just where in Mount Vernon the reform school > was situated. I ask because I grew up in Edge Hill. My grandfather > married my > grandmother at St. Mary's church in 1904 and the marriage certificate > shows > him living at #3 Back Mount Vernon Green and Grandma living at #1 Irvine > Street (a still exisiting pub - Mount Vernon Hotel). (I never knew my > Grandpa to take a drink stronger than sarsasparilla). I had family living > in Albany Road that abuts Mount Vernon Green; I recall the Lybro factory > but that's it. > Bill in Nanaimo Hello Bill, I don't know its exact location but you may recall Mount Vernon Green runs between Mount Vernon and Hall Lane. Gore's 1900 Directory of Liverpool recorded six occupied properties in Mount Vernon Green:- No.3 Joseph Brown, Estate Agent. No.4 Colin Campbell, Cabinet Maker. No.5 William Wilson. No.6 Liverpool Girls Reformatory. No.7 Lancashire Female Refuge. No.8 Magdalene Institute. And from Joan Rimmer's book 'Yesterday's Naughty Children - A History of the Liverpool Reformatory Association, founded in 1855'... Number 6, Mount Vernon Green, a rambling private house situated on high ground at Edge Hill with open views front and back, was bought for £1,500 from James Addam in the spring of 1857 for its new function as a girls' reformatory. Its first registered owner was in residence in 1754, and the building's condition reflected its age. To make it habitable for between 50 and 60 girls, £198 was spent on alterations...' '...Between 1857 and 1921, several thousand girls passed through the portals of Mount Vernon Green and its associate establishment, Toxteth Park Girls Reformatory...' Clearly, the properties in Mount Vernon Green were quite substantial. Regards, John Hardy.

Carolyn If you enter the following exactly, all lower case characters, into google, you will see a complete list of all Directories known to exist. It starts at 1756 with gore's being annually until 1941. www.liverpool-ancestors.co.uk/gores.html Also shown is known places or ways of access. If there is a Latter Day Saints church in your area, they can show you the list of the microfilms taken by their members of the Directories and you can order a film to be sent to the local church venue for showing on their readers In the 20th C, I can only see 1900, 1911, 1930 & 1952 gore's liverpool directories Terry Heath Cheltenham UK

Did you mean father's name is JAMES or is this an anomaly? Judy On 23 Aug 2009, at 18:48, Joan Armistead wrote: > > 1 Feb 1870 John Murray born at 34 Greek Street in the sub-district of > Mount Pleasant, Liverpool, County of Lancaster, father's name is JOHN > Murray, his mother is Catherine Murray formerly DeegEn, father is a > tailor and his signature is J Murray and lives on Greek Street, > registered 21 February 1870 (registration district Liverpool).