Jackie The LDS has an institutional subscription to the Genealogist (along with Ancestry, FMP and a few other commercial websites). You will need to go to an LDS Family History Library and use their in-library PCs to use the websites. One of the collections that The Genealogist has which can be very useful are the Non-Conformist Church records collection, completely digitised and indexed. An excellent source if you have Quakers or other non-conformists in your tree. They have other records as well. David Armstrong Maylands, Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Jackie Serna To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 4:16 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Ancestry Liverpool St Johns burial records v freeBMD - W EBSTER Could anyone who has a membership at the Genealogist mail me off line please at jaserna at sympatico.ca I would like to know if the cost is worth it as I already have an ancestry membership. Do they have different records? Thanks Jackie Maria Haines wrote: > and Find my past, and the Genealogist ...

Hi Liz, If you have a subscription to Ancestry, have a look at burials in London. I think St Dunstans in the East in Stepney, if I remember correctly, late 1700s/early 1800s, is one church to look at where Ancestry has included entries from the vicar's day book. Look for two entries for the same person to find them. The entries often give cause of death, such as "teeth", along with the cost of the funeral. Also he recorded if there were pall bearers and if the great bell was used, which tells you the deceased was not poor. Fascinating reading. The day book was obviously part of the book-keeping system of the church. I saw several entries where the person had died of "teeth" and I am still scratching my head as to what that would mean in today's terminology! Lesley -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 24 August 2012 05:18 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. On the other hand, I have a death certificate from my gggrandfather - a victualer (sp?) - who died suddenly at 44 of what was clearly a heart attack.I'm not familiar with a vicar's day book. Thanks for the 'something new'. Liz

Thank you all for your information and responses.. I wonder if anyone has evermade a recorded search of the graveyard. I know in Dublin and Carlow Ireland volunteers have gone in andf photographed and recorded the text of eachtombstone. This has been a Many years project and very time consuming but certainly great for us seeking out family. If anyone happens across a stone in the St. Nicholas graveyard for a THOMAS FARLEY - age 43-please let me know. Michelle . ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. On the other hand, I have a death certificate from my gggrandfather - a victualer (sp?) - who died suddenly at 44 of what was clearly a heart attack.I'm not familiar with a vicar's day book. Thanks for the 'something new'. Liz ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Lesley Chaney" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 18:08:17 +0100 Hi Michelle, As others have pointed out, death certificates are not available as early as 1826. Burial registers do not generally record causes of death but if the vicar's day book for St Nicholas has survived there might be something recorded there, perhaps worth checking the LDS catalogue although many are likely to have been lost. However, if you do find some sort of record, do bear in mind that diagnosis then was not the precise science it is today. For instance, I have 2 death certificates from 1840, one of which gives the cause of death as dropsy (now regarded as a symptom, not a cause) and the other as rheumatic inflammation. Neither are exactly helpful. Even as late as the 1870s you can find causes such as carbuncle or ague, and it is possible your man succumbed to a disease contracted overseas that was not commonly recognised in the UK. Common diseases such as smallpox would be easily recognised. If his burial is recorded in the registers of St Nicholas, then he would have been buried there unless the register states otherwise. Lesley -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Michelle Wilson My g-grandfather THOMAS KEMP (master mariner) died February 15th 1826 at his home on Blundell Street. He was age 43. He had been to sea much of his adult life and was a capt. of several ships. Burial records for St. Nicholas Church (ref: Burials 1826-pg. 3 entry 474/LDS film # 1068891) state that he was buried by John Pulford, Curate on February 16th 1826. My question is: Is there anyway I can find information about the cause of his death other than purchasing a death certificate? Money is very tight now for me, as I know it is for many others, and if I could avoid having to spend it to purchase a certificate I would perefer to do so. However...if I am SURE that thecause of death would be on the certificate I will get one if that is the only way to find out the information, but I was told that some early certificate did not necessarly state the cause of death. If I do Have to purchase one, how do I go about it? Also, have you any idea where he might have been buried and if there are any sites that would show pictures of tombstones..that I might find his. Thank you Michelle vermont USA ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________ NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1

On the other hand, I have a death certificate from my gggrandfather - a victualer (sp?) - who died suddenly at 44 of what was clearly a heart attack.I'm not familiar with a vicar's day book. Thanks for the 'something new'. Liz ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Lesley Chaney" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 18:08:17 +0100 Hi Michelle, As others have pointed out, death certificates are not available as early as 1826. Burial registers do not generally record causes of death but if the vicar's day book for St Nicholas has survived there might be something recorded there, perhaps worth checking the LDS catalogue although many are likely to have been lost. However, if you do find some sort of record, do bear in mind that diagnosis then was not the precise science it is today. For instance, I have 2 death certificates from 1840, one of which gives the cause of death as dropsy (now regarded as a symptom, not a cause) and the other as rheumatic inflammation. Neither are exactly helpful. Even as late as the 1870s you can find causes such as carbuncle or ague, and it is possible your man succumbed to a disease contracted overseas that was not commonly recognised in the UK. Common diseases such as smallpox would be easily recognised. If his burial is recorded in the registers of St Nicholas, then he would have been buried there unless the register states otherwise. Lesley -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Michelle Wilson My g-grandfather THOMAS KEMP (master mariner) died February 15th 1826 at his home on Blundell Street. He was age 43. He had been to sea much of his adult life and was a capt. of several ships. Burial records for St. Nicholas Church (ref: Burials 1826-pg. 3 entry 474/LDS film # 1068891) state that he was buried by John Pulford, Curate on February 16th 1826. My question is: Is there anyway I can find information about the cause of his death other than purchasing a death certificate? Money is very tight now for me, as I know it is for many others, and if I could avoid having to spend it to purchase a certificate I would perefer to do so. However...if I am SURE that thecause of death would be on the certificate I will get one if that is the only way to find out the information, but I was told that some early certificate did not necessarly state the cause of death. If I do Have to purchase one, how do I go about it? Also, have you any idea where he might have been buried and if there are any sites that would show pictures of tombstones..that I might find his. Thank you Michelle vermont USA ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________ NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1

G'day Michelle Civil Registration of BDM only began in England on the 1st July 1837. You will therefore not be able to get a Death Certificate from 1826, only the Parish Burial Register record which you say you've already seen on microfilm. It is possible that his death, with a cause, may be recorded in a newspaper. If and when you do need to obtain a Civil Registration BDM certificate, the quickest way is to order it through the General Register Office for England and Wales website. < http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp > The cost is £9.25 which is approx. $15 at the current exchange rates. The GRO accepts Visa and Mastercard. The GRO copy of the certificates is a 'National Copy' of the entry returned by the Register Office of the District in which the BDM event took place. (Occasionally there will be copying errors between the local and national copies of the registers). Certificates can also be obtained through the local Register Office, but these often take much longer to arrive. However, by law, the cost is the same as if they are issued by the GRO. The only permissible exception to this is if they offer a surcharge in order for you to jump the queue and obtain the certificate earlier. Hope this helps David Armstrong Maylands, Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Michelle Wilson To: Liverpool web site Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:01 PM Subject: [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. My g-grandfather THOMAS KEMP (master mariner) died February 15th 1826 at his home on Blundell Street. He was age 43. He had been to sea much of his adult life and was a capt. of several ships. Burial records for St. Nicholas Church (ref: Burials 1826-pg. 3 entry 474/LDS film # 1068891) state that he was buried by John Pulford, Curate on February 16th 1826. My question is: Is there anyway I can find information about the cause of his death other than purchasing a death certificate? Money is very tight now for me, as I know it is for many others, and if I could avoid having to spend it to purchase a certificate I would perefer to do so. However...if I am SURE that thecause of death would be on the certificate I will get one if that is the only way to find out the information, but I was told that some early certificate did not necessarly state the cause of death. If I do Have to purchase one, how do I go about it? Also, have you any idea where he might have been buried and if there are any sites that would show pictures of tombstones..that I might find his. Thank you Michelle vermont USA

Hi, In terms of the burial records they are online at Lancashire opr for 1845, ( but could not find a timothy Webster) http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Liverpool-Central/stjohn/index.html Regards Julie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 23 August 2012 17:41 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Ancestry Liverpool St Johns burial records v freeBMD - W EBSTER Thank you. ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Joan Armistead <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Ancestry Liverpool St Johns burial records v freeBMD - W EBSTER Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 08:26:38 -0400 Ancestry has them. On Aug 22, 2012, at 9:35 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Where to access the 1841 & 1861 Censuses? > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: "Carolyn McCartney" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [ENG-LIV] Ancestry Liverpool St Johns burial records v > freeBMD - WEBSTER > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:32:24 +0100 > > I have found the burial details of my 4xgrandmother, Ellen Webster, > in the Liverpool, Lancashire records on Ancestry on 23 Jan 1841 St > John's Church, Liverpool. I have also found, on FreeBMD, what I > believe is her husband's death - Timothy WEBSTER Apr-Jun 1845. However > the Ancestry burial records for St John's only go up to 1843. I know > that St John's closed for burials in 1865 so why would they not have > filmed and transcribed those latter years I wonder? Can anyone tell me > if these are available anywhere else please? If not, if anyone > happens per chance to be going to the Liverpool records office and would have time to look up this burial for me (FreeBMD Ref: > Liverpool Vol 20, Page 30), I would be extremely grateful . > > > > I am in a bit of a muddle with Timothy (born 1763) as there is a > Timothy Webster age 73 living in Cow Lane, Liverpool in the 1841 > census (who fits - > Class: HO107; Piece: 556; Book: 21; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: > Lancashire; Enumeration District: 25; Folio: 18; Page: 29; - don't > know if it is relevant but his father, Thomas Webster was a Cow keeper > in 1763) but he is living with Margaret Webster age 77 (and she comes > first so appears to be head of household). His wife Ellen (if that is > the correct one and I believe it is) as I said above, died Jan 1841. > Did Timothy re-marry very quickly (!), could this be a spinster sister > of his or have I got something wrong here? > > > > I haven't found any other Timothy Websters in that area. > > > > Carolyn > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________ > Mom Lazy Way to Look Young > Doctor Reveals Way to Look Significantly Younger in 17 Seconds > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5035893d3c74693d1554st03duc > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________ Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50365d6c95f695d6c1e80st02duc ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Michelle, As others have pointed out, death certificates are not available as early as 1826. Burial registers do not generally record causes of death but if the vicar's day book for St Nicholas has survived there might be something recorded there, perhaps worth checking the LDS catalogue although many are likely to have been lost. However, if you do find some sort of record, do bear in mind that diagnosis then was not the precise science it is today. For instance, I have 2 death certificates from 1840, one of which gives the cause of death as dropsy (now regarded as a symptom, not a cause) and the other as rheumatic inflammation. Neither are exactly helpful. Even as late as the 1870s you can find causes such as carbuncle or ague, and it is possible your man succumbed to a disease contracted overseas that was not commonly recognised in the UK. Common diseases such as smallpox would be easily recognised. If his burial is recorded in the registers of St Nicholas, then he would have been buried there unless the register states otherwise. Lesley -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Michelle Wilson My g-grandfather THOMAS KEMP (master mariner) died February 15th 1826 at his home on Blundell Street. He was age 43. He had been to sea much of his adult life and was a capt. of several ships. Burial records for St. Nicholas Church (ref: Burials 1826-pg. 3 entry 474/LDS film # 1068891) state that he was buried by John Pulford, Curate on February 16th 1826. My question is: Is there anyway I can find information about the cause of his death other than purchasing a death certificate? Money is very tight now for me, as I know it is for many others, and if I could avoid having to spend it to purchase a certificate I would perefer to do so. However...if I am SURE that thecause of death would be on the certificate I will get one if that is the only way to find out the information, but I was told that some early certificate did not necessarly state the cause of death. If I do Have to purchase one, how do I go about it? Also, have you any idea where he might have been buried and if there are any sites that would show pictures of tombstones..that I might find his. Thank you Michelle vermont USA

Thank you. ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Joan Armistead <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] Ancestry Liverpool St Johns burial records v freeBMD - W EBSTER Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 08:26:38 -0400 Ancestry has them. On Aug 22, 2012, at 9:35 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Where to access the 1841 & 1861 Censuses? > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: "Carolyn McCartney" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [ENG-LIV] Ancestry Liverpool St Johns burial records v freeBMD - WEBSTER > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:32:24 +0100 > > I have found the burial details of my 4xgrandmother, Ellen Webster, in the > Liverpool, Lancashire records on Ancestry on 23 Jan 1841 St John's Church, > Liverpool. I have also found, on FreeBMD, what I believe is her husband's > death - Timothy WEBSTER Apr-Jun 1845. However the Ancestry burial records > for St John's only go up to 1843. I know that St John's closed for burials > in 1865 so why would they not have filmed and transcribed those latter years > I wonder? Can anyone tell me if these are available anywhere else please? If > not, if anyone happens per chance to be going to the Liverpool records > office and would have time to look up this burial for me (FreeBMD Ref: > Liverpool Vol 20, Page 30), I would be extremely grateful . > > > > I am in a bit of a muddle with Timothy (born 1763) as there is a Timothy > Webster age 73 living in Cow Lane, Liverpool in the 1841 census (who fits - > Class: HO107; Piece: 556; Book: 21; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: > Lancashire; Enumeration District: 25; Folio: 18; Page: 29; - don't know if > it is relevant but his father, Thomas Webster was a Cow keeper in 1763) but > he is living with Margaret Webster age 77 (and she comes first so appears to > be head of household). His wife Ellen (if that is the correct one and I > believe it is) as I said above, died Jan 1841. Did Timothy re-marry very > quickly (!), could this be a spinster sister of his or have I got something > wrong here? > > > > I haven't found any other Timothy Websters in that area. > > > > Carolyn > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________ > Mom Lazy Way to Look Young > Doctor Reveals Way to Look Significantly Younger in 17 Seconds > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5035893d3c74693d1554st03duc > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________ Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50365d6c95f695d6c1e80st02duc

Could anyone who has a membership at the Genealogist mail me off line please at jaserna at sympatico.ca I would like to know if the cost is worth it as I already have an ancestry membership. Do they have different records? Thanks Jackie Maria Haines wrote: > and Find my past, and the Genealogist ... > > On 23/08/2012 13:26, Joan Armistead wrote: > >> Ancestry has them. >> >> >> On Aug 22, 2012, at 9:35 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >

I can't see his death in the Liverpool Mercury for 17th or 24th February 1826 (presume it was weekly) Martin Briscoe Fort William [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marion Charlesworth Sent: 23 August 2012 15:09 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] [Bulk] A question I need answered, please. Dear Michelle Just possibly he was prominent enough as a Master Mariner to merit a mention in a local newspaper of the time? It may be worth checking out - unfortunately I no longer have the web address but I'm sure someone on the list will be able to help. Marion Sussex -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michelle Wilson Sent: 23 August 2012 14:02 To: Liverpool web site Subject: [Bulk] [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. My g-grandfather THOMAS KEMP (master mariner) died February 15th 1826 at his home on Blundell Street. He was age 43. He had been to sea much of his adult life and was a capt. of several ships. Burial records for St. Nicholas Church (ref: Burials 1826-pg. 3 entry 474/LDS film # 1068891) state that he was buried by John Pulford, Curate on February 16th 1826. My question is: Is there anyway I can find information about the cause of his death other than purchasing a death certificate? Money is very tight now for me, as I know it is for many others, and if I could avoid having to spend it to purchase a certificate I would perefer to do so. However...if I am SURE that thecause of death would be on the certificate I will get one if that is the only way to find out the information, but I was told that some early certificate did not necessarly state the cause of death. If I do Have to purchase one, how do I go about it? Also, have you any idea where he might have been buried and if there are any sites that would show pictures of tombstones..that I might find his. Thank you Michelle vermont USA

Dear Michelle Just possibly he was prominent enough as a Master Mariner to merit a mention in a local newspaper of the time? It may be worth checking out - unfortunately I no longer have the web address but I'm sure someone on the list will be able to help. Marion Sussex -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michelle Wilson Sent: 23 August 2012 14:02 To: Liverpool web site Subject: [Bulk] [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. My g-grandfather THOMAS KEMP (master mariner) died February 15th 1826 at his home on Blundell Street. He was age 43. He had been to sea much of his adult life and was a capt. of several ships. Burial records for St. Nicholas Church (ref: Burials 1826-pg. 3 entry 474/LDS film # 1068891) state that he was buried by John Pulford, Curate on February 16th 1826. My question is: Is there anyway I can find information about the cause of his death other than purchasing a death certificate? Money is very tight now for me, as I know it is for many others, and if I could avoid having to spend it to purchase a certificate I would perefer to do so. However...if I am SURE that thecause of death would be on the certificate I will get one if that is the only way to find out the information, but I was told that some early certificate did not necessarly state the cause of death. If I do Have to purchase one, how do I go about it? Also, have you any idea where he might have been buried and if there are any sites that would show pictures of tombstones..that I might find his. Thank you Michelle vermont USA ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Michelle, Sorry, but you won't find the answer on a death certificate as they didn't happen until more than ten years later.  Sometimes cause of death was recorded in the church register but again this was the exception rather than the rule. Not very helpful. Regards,  Tom.

and Find my past, and the Genealogist ... On 23/08/2012 13:26, Joan Armistead wrote: > Ancestry has them. > > > On Aug 22, 2012, at 9:35 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> Where to access the 1841 & 1861 Censuses? >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------- >> From: "Carolyn McCartney" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Subject: [ENG-LIV] Ancestry Liverpool St Johns burial records v freeBMD - WEBSTER >> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:32:24 +0100 >> >> I have found the burial details of my 4xgrandmother, Ellen Webster, in the >> Liverpool, Lancashire records on Ancestry on 23 Jan 1841 St John's Church, >> Liverpool. I have also found, on FreeBMD, what I believe is her husband's >> death - Timothy WEBSTER Apr-Jun 1845. However the Ancestry burial records >> for St John's only go up to 1843. I know that St John's closed for burials >> in 1865 so why would they not have filmed and transcribed those latter years >> I wonder? Can anyone tell me if these are available anywhere else please? If >> not, if anyone happens per chance to be going to the Liverpool records >> office and would have time to look up this burial for me (FreeBMD Ref: >> Liverpool Vol 20, Page 30), I would be extremely grateful . >> >> >> >> I am in a bit of a muddle with Timothy (born 1763) as there is a Timothy >> Webster age 73 living in Cow Lane, Liverpool in the 1841 census (who fits - >> Class: HO107; Piece: 556; Book: 21; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: >> Lancashire; Enumeration District: 25; Folio: 18; Page: 29; - don't know if >> it is relevant but his father, Thomas Webster was a Cow keeper in 1763) but >> he is living with Margaret Webster age 77 (and she comes first so appears to >> be head of household). His wife Ellen (if that is the correct one and I >> believe it is) as I said above, died Jan 1841. Did Timothy re-marry very >> quickly (!), could this be a spinster sister of his or have I got something >> wrong here? >> >> >> >> I haven't found any other Timothy Websters in that area. >> >> >> >> Carolyn >> >> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >> >> Admin Message - List guidelines: >> http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm >> >> The list admin can be contacted at >> [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Mom Lazy Way to Look Young >> Doctor Reveals Way to Look Significantly Younger in 17 Seconds >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5035893d3c74693d1554st03duc >> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >> >> Admin Message - List guidelines: >> http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm >> >> The list admin can be contacted at >> [email protected] >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks for replying Tom, I guess my brick wall will have to stand for awhile longer. Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomas Christie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. Dear Michelle, Sorry, but you won't find the answer on a death certificate as they didn't happen until more than ten years later. Sometimes cause of death was recorded in the church register but again this was the exception rather than the rule. Not very helpful. Regards, Tom.

Thank you David, Would you happen to know what papers were in print in Liverpool at that time that I could scan on line? That's probably the only way I willlearn the cause and also what cemetary he would be in, unless there is a cemetary connected to St. Nicholas that may have his tombstone. Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Armstrong" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. G'day Michelle Civil Registration of BDM only began in England on the 1st July 1837. You will therefore not be able to get a Death Certificate from 1826, only the Parish Burial Register record which you say you've already seen on microfilm. It is possible that his death, with a cause, may be recorded in a newspaper. If and when you do need to obtain a Civil Registration BDM certificate, the quickest way is to order it through the General Register Office for England and Wales website. < http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp > The cost is £9.25 which is approx. $15 at the current exchange rates. The GRO accepts Visa and Mastercard. The GRO copy of the certificates is a 'National Copy' of the entry returned by the Register Office of the District in which the BDM event took place. (Occasionally there will be copying errors between the local and national copies of the registers). Certificates can also be obtained through the local Register Office, but these often take much longer to arrive. However, by law, the cost is the same as if they are issued by the GRO. The only permissible exception to this is if they offer a surcharge in order for you to jump the queue and obtain the certificate earlier. Hope this helps David Armstrong Maylands, Western Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Michelle Wilson To: Liverpool web site Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:01 PM Subject: [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. My g-grandfather THOMAS KEMP (master mariner) died February 15th 1826 at his home on Blundell Street. He was age 43. He had been to sea much of his adult life and was a capt. of several ships. Burial records for St. Nicholas Church (ref: Burials 1826-pg. 3 entry 474/LDS film # 1068891) state that he was buried by John Pulford, Curate on February 16th 1826. My question is: Is there anyway I can find information about the cause of his death other than purchasing a death certificate? Money is very tight now for me, as I know it is for many others, and if I could avoid having to spend it to purchase a certificate I would perefer to do so. However...if I am SURE that thecause of death would be on the certificate I will get one if that is the only way to find out the information, but I was told that some early certificate did not necessarly state the cause of death. If I do Have to purchase one, how do I go about it? Also, have you any idea where he might have been buried and if there are any sites that would show pictures of tombstones..that I might find his. Thank you Michelle vermont USA

Hi Michelle, I checked the newspapers for a mention but found nothing...sorry. Sandra > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 09:01:53 -0400 > Subject: [ENG-LIV] A question I need answered, please. > > My g-grandfather THOMAS KEMP (master mariner) died February 15th 1826 at his home on Blundell Street. He was age 43. He had been to sea much of his adult life and was a capt. of several ships. Burial records for St. Nicholas Church (ref: Burials 1826-pg. 3 entry 474/LDS film # 1068891) state that he was buried by John Pulford, Curate on February 16th 1826. > > My question is: Is there anyway I can find information about the cause of his death other than purchasing a death certificate? Money is very tight now for me, as I know it is for many others, and if I could avoid having to spend it to purchase a certificate I would perefer to do so. However...if I am SURE that thecause of death would be on the certificate I will get one if that is the only way to find out the information, but I was told that some early certificate did not necessarly state the cause of death. If I do Have to purchase one, how do I go about it? Also, have you any idea where he might have been buried and if there are any sites that would show pictures of tombstones..that I might find his. > > Thank you > Michelle > vermont USA > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My g-grandfather THOMAS KEMP (master mariner) died February 15th 1826 at his home on Blundell Street. He was age 43. He had been to sea much of his adult life and was a capt. of several ships. Burial records for St. Nicholas Church (ref: Burials 1826-pg. 3 entry 474/LDS film # 1068891) state that he was buried by John Pulford, Curate on February 16th 1826. My question is: Is there anyway I can find information about the cause of his death other than purchasing a death certificate? Money is very tight now for me, as I know it is for many others, and if I could avoid having to spend it to purchase a certificate I would perefer to do so. However...if I am SURE that thecause of death would be on the certificate I will get one if that is the only way to find out the information, but I was told that some early certificate did not necessarly state the cause of death. If I do Have to purchase one, how do I go about it? Also, have you any idea where he might have been buried and if there are any sites that would show pictures of tombstones..that I might find his. Thank you Michelle vermont USA

Thanks to all who have replied to my query. The idea that she was illegitimate seems to me to be a good possibility based on other information I have. David -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vern Prescott Sent: 22 August 2012 21:29 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ENG-LIV] DRUMMOND or SHERLOCK - marriage name confusion It appears that Elsie'a birth was registered in the December quarter of 1910. But the 1911 census gives her she as 1. I wonder if she was registered late and was illegitimate and found out later that her true father's name was Sherlock. She might then have given Sherlock as her fathers name when she was married. Her name was Drummond since she was registered as such. In this case both names would appear in the GRO index I think. First get the marriage certificate to see what it says. See if it gives her name as Drummond and her father's name as Sherlock or the other way round. Hope this helps Vern On Aug 22, 2012 12:35 PM, "Antony Marr" <[email protected]> wrote: > I would normally expect that to indicate a previous marriage - but I > think it is one where you need to get a copy of the certificate to see > if that explains it. > > Antony > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Railton > Sent: 22 August 2012 15:19 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [ENG-LIV] DRUMMOND or SHERLOCK - marriage name confusion > > The GRO Index shows the marriage of William A Cockburn to Elsie H > Drummond in DQ 1942 at Liverpool South, ref: 8b 210. > > On both Ancestry and FreeBMD the alternative surname of Sherlock is > given for Elsie. Elsie was born at West Derby in 1910, the daughter of > John Drummond and Elsie Hay. I cannot find any previous marriage of > daughter Elsie to a Mr Sherlock. I also cannot see any reason why she > should have been adopted. Elsie's father died in 1926 and he named his > wife as executor leaving her reasonably well provided for. I also > cannot find any record of a remarriage of Elsie's mother to a Mr > Sherlock. > > All I can think of is that the parents may have abandoned Elsie for > adoption as a child. > > Does anyone have any ideas? > > David > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ancestry has them. On Aug 22, 2012, at 9:35 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Where to access the 1841 & 1861 Censuses? > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: "Carolyn McCartney" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [ENG-LIV] Ancestry Liverpool St Johns burial records v freeBMD - WEBSTER > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:32:24 +0100 > > I have found the burial details of my 4xgrandmother, Ellen Webster, in the > Liverpool, Lancashire records on Ancestry on 23 Jan 1841 St John's Church, > Liverpool. I have also found, on FreeBMD, what I believe is her husband's > death - Timothy WEBSTER Apr-Jun 1845. However the Ancestry burial records > for St John's only go up to 1843. I know that St John's closed for burials > in 1865 so why would they not have filmed and transcribed those latter years > I wonder? Can anyone tell me if these are available anywhere else please? If > not, if anyone happens per chance to be going to the Liverpool records > office and would have time to look up this burial for me (FreeBMD Ref: > Liverpool Vol 20, Page 30), I would be extremely grateful . > > > > I am in a bit of a muddle with Timothy (born 1763) as there is a Timothy > Webster age 73 living in Cow Lane, Liverpool in the 1841 census (who fits - > Class: HO107; Piece: 556; Book: 21; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: > Lancashire; Enumeration District: 25; Folio: 18; Page: 29; - don't know if > it is relevant but his father, Thomas Webster was a Cow keeper in 1763) but > he is living with Margaret Webster age 77 (and she comes first so appears to > be head of household). His wife Ellen (if that is the correct one and I > believe it is) as I said above, died Jan 1841. Did Timothy re-marry very > quickly (!), could this be a spinster sister of his or have I got something > wrong here? > > > > I haven't found any other Timothy Websters in that area. > > > > Carolyn > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________ > Mom Lazy Way to Look Young > Doctor Reveals Way to Look Significantly Younger in 17 Seconds > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5035893d3c74693d1554st03duc > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Admin Message - List guidelines: > http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm > > The list admin can be contacted at > [email protected] > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Where to access the 1841 & 1861 Censuses? ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Carolyn McCartney" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: [ENG-LIV] Ancestry Liverpool St Johns burial records v freeBMD - WEBSTER Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:32:24 +0100 I have found the burial details of my 4xgrandmother, Ellen Webster, in the Liverpool, Lancashire records on Ancestry on 23 Jan 1841 St John's Church, Liverpool. I have also found, on FreeBMD, what I believe is her husband's death - Timothy WEBSTER Apr-Jun 1845. However the Ancestry burial records for St John's only go up to 1843. I know that St John's closed for burials in 1865 so why would they not have filmed and transcribed those latter years I wonder? Can anyone tell me if these are available anywhere else please? If not, if anyone happens per chance to be going to the Liverpool records office and would have time to look up this burial for me (FreeBMD Ref: Liverpool Vol 20, Page 30), I would be extremely grateful . I am in a bit of a muddle with Timothy (born 1763) as there is a Timothy Webster age 73 living in Cow Lane, Liverpool in the 1841 census (who fits - Class: HO107; Piece: 556; Book: 21; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 25; Folio: 18; Page: 29; - don't know if it is relevant but his father, Thomas Webster was a Cow keeper in 1763) but he is living with Margaret Webster age 77 (and she comes first so appears to be head of household). His wife Ellen (if that is the correct one and I believe it is) as I said above, died Jan 1841. Did Timothy re-marry very quickly (!), could this be a spinster sister of his or have I got something wrong here? I haven't found any other Timothy Websters in that area. Carolyn ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Admin Message - List guidelines: http://freespace.virgin.net/genealogical.collections/AdminMessage.htm The list admin can be contacted at [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________ Mom Lazy Way to Look Young Doctor Reveals Way to Look Significantly Younger in 17 Seconds http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5035893d3c74693d1554st03duc