See the story in the link for an interesting example where DNA corrected what most researchers would have taken as proven parentage and ancestry using traditional research. Granted, accidental switching at birth is not common, but the story demonstrates the value of DNA research coupled with more "conventional" methods https://www.ajc.com/news/two-minnesota-women-their-70s-learn-they-were-switched-birth/payH9YVpt6bax77T2AxOcP/ -----Original Message----- From: Rex Johnson <rex1937@gmail.com> To: eng-lincsgen <eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 20, 2018 9:49 am Subject: [LIN] DNA - time to put it to rest? Dear List, Nothing raises the temperature more than talking about DNA in a ‘Family History’ group – as the recent flurry of activity has shown. Talking DNA is a good way to lose friends and I usually dodge confrontations, because I get into trouble when I am honest. HOWEVER: I started researching family tree paper-trails over 50 years ago, reading original enumerator's Census Returns. There were then no BMDs or ancestral research sites available. I finished up with a tree showing 4,600 possible forebears, spent hours checking fiches at the Archives, and for a time did some transcribing guided by Anne – a remarkably hard working and dedicated LFHS member. I started DNA research 16 years ago, and the process has been a bit expensive, but has been worth every penny. My DNA work is exactly a family history study and anyone who considers it otherwise is deluding themselves. I have thoroughly enjoyed both above experiences, and both have enriched my life. Both are two sides of the same coin. Paper trails generally go back just a few hundred years. DNA trails for most people start then and go back thousands. Many people are put off DNA studies because they don’t understand it. Some of the techniques are complicated. Many people who are tested never get to understand it either. So, what is wrong with enjoying one aspect of family research, or the other, or both. We all have the choice, and should not be critical of anyone not following our options. For my money the LFHS should recognise the legitimacy of the DNA possibilities – even if it chooses to restrict activities to things it obviously does best. Just a couple more observations. I don’t believe it is possible to guarantee paper-trail trees – and that is why my own has not been put online. Paternity issues are so common (and always have been), that mistakes are inevitable – you can see the errors everywhere in Ancestry’s Members’ Trees. On the other hand, DNA trails are accurate – that is why the science is used to trace lost siblings or parents of children who have been adopted. Secondly, siblings do not inherit identical DNA from their parents. When looking at ‘ethnicity’ there is no reason why siblings should not come out with a different mix. All ethnicity results should be considered ‘approximate’. People put too much weight on them because they are easier to understand than what to do with the DNA marker results. 14,000 years ago, the British Isles were not inhabited – under swathes of ice. As the ice melted, immigrants moved in. In reality everyone one of us, whether in Britain or the United States, all have immigrant forebears. You can have European forbears who became British in later generations, but Britishness is a very recent concept in DNA terms. Have fun------ and be tolerant, Rex _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebprefUnsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Yes, but I do believe that William drowned The marriage may have been in Hull and Catholic. Are there good records of these? Their last child was born 12 January 1863 so I have theorised about conception dates, with a goodly dash of family legend thrown in, using the proverbial pinch of salt. Cheers from a cold Wamuran,Queensland (but it does get warm during the day) Julie

My great-grandfather, George WRIGHT was drowned in the late 1880s & his widow, Sarah, seemingly waited 7 years before remarrying. However, she did live with, & have children to, another man (Henry ALCOCK) after George's death. They are even listed as a married couple on the 1891 census, though they did not marry until 1896. Curiously, George & Sarah's 2 children (my grandma & her brother) are listed in the census as the children of Henry Alcock & bearing his surname, though my gran continued to use the name Wright in later years (1901 census etc.) It seems George was quickly forgotten ---- by his widow, at least! Though perhaps it was a matter of survival, & who could blame her. Janet ________________________________ From: Julie Tadman <julietadman@gmail.com> Sent: 20 June 2018 21:48:39 To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LIN] Re: Records of missing fishermen and remarriage Hi Nigel, Thanks for your reply. I take your point about people not bothering with the niceties of officialdom in such circumstances. I wondered, given the length of time since I last investigated and the number of new records which have been transcribed in past years, if any new ones could shed some light on the matter. How the lady in question managed to survive for so long is unknown, unless her husband, William George Bracegirdle, had accumulated some money. I know his family probably would not have been able to help his widow, Mary Anne, although his mother did get some money I understand from her late father's estate, but I do believe that the whole family was in straightened circumstances. And no, I don't have her remarriage records to hand, just family "knowledge". Julie On 21 June 2018 at 06:26, Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Julie > > Records of deaths at sea are slim, I could check those records available > but unfortunately you did not post a name > > The most likely occurrence is that she presented herself as a widow and > she was taken as such and she remarried > > Have you seen the marriage certificate? does she give herself as a widow? > > If not what did she give? > > In theory if seven years elapsed since his disappearance she could apply > to the courts for a declaration of death and then be free to remarry, > however in my experience few went through with the formalities and simply > remarried, little if anything was asked for by way of proof of a persons > condition, or even name or age > > As to survival, much would depend on her circumstances, whether she had > the support of family or had taken a policy with a friendly society or > similar, or even sought help from the parish > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > On 20/06/2018 21:13, Julie Tadman wrote: > >> Could I pose a question for all you clever and knowledgeable people. >> >> How would the widow of a great grand uncle be able to remarry only about >> four years after her fisherman was lost at sea possibly off Grimsby or in >> the North Sea? >> >> As he drowned there would have been no inquest - no body. >> >> The death occurred sometime in mid to late 1862, a period when the >> newspapers were very scant in their reporting of such matters. >> >> The widow in question had several children, her last born in early January >> 1863. >> >> Apart from being being to survive till then, what were the requirements >> for >> remarriage and would there be any records needed for such an event? >> >> All input welcome. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Julie >> > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng- > lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng- > lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hmmmm I assume your lady is the one in 1861 born Essex with hubby William a mariner and children She appears in 1871 as married but named Mary Ann MCCORMICK a labourers wife I didn't find a marriage for a Mary BRACEGIRDLE 1861 to 1871 in Lincolnshire And of the marriages anywhere else in the country 1861 to 1871 none married a MCCORMICK or similar Which suggests to me that either William disappeared (died or did a runner or they split up) and Mary shacked up with ?? MCCORMICK The last BRACEGIRDLE child appears to be born March qtr 1863 (Walter) so William seems to disappear between mid 1862 and 1871 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 20/06/2018 21:48, Julie Tadman wrote: > Hi Nigel, > > Thanks for your reply. I take your point about people not bothering with > the niceties of officialdom in such circumstances. I wondered, given the > length of time since I last investigated and the number of new records > which have been transcribed in past years, if any new ones could shed some > light on the matter. > > How the lady in question managed to survive for so long is unknown, unless > her husband, William George Bracegirdle, had accumulated some money. I > know his family probably would not have been able to help his widow, Mary > Anne, although his mother did get some money I understand from her late > father's estate, but I do believe that the whole family was in straightened > circumstances. > > And no, I don't have her remarriage records to hand, just family > "knowledge". > > Julie

Hi Nigel, Thanks for your reply. I take your point about people not bothering with the niceties of officialdom in such circumstances. I wondered, given the length of time since I last investigated and the number of new records which have been transcribed in past years, if any new ones could shed some light on the matter. How the lady in question managed to survive for so long is unknown, unless her husband, William George Bracegirdle, had accumulated some money. I know his family probably would not have been able to help his widow, Mary Anne, although his mother did get some money I understand from her late father's estate, but I do believe that the whole family was in straightened circumstances. And no, I don't have her remarriage records to hand, just family "knowledge". Julie On 21 June 2018 at 06:26, Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Julie > > Records of deaths at sea are slim, I could check those records available > but unfortunately you did not post a name > > The most likely occurrence is that she presented herself as a widow and > she was taken as such and she remarried > > Have you seen the marriage certificate? does she give herself as a widow? > > If not what did she give? > > In theory if seven years elapsed since his disappearance she could apply > to the courts for a declaration of death and then be free to remarry, > however in my experience few went through with the formalities and simply > remarried, little if anything was asked for by way of proof of a persons > condition, or even name or age > > As to survival, much would depend on her circumstances, whether she had > the support of family or had taken a policy with a friendly society or > similar, or even sought help from the parish > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > On 20/06/2018 21:13, Julie Tadman wrote: > >> Could I pose a question for all you clever and knowledgeable people. >> >> How would the widow of a great grand uncle be able to remarry only about >> four years after her fisherman was lost at sea possibly off Grimsby or in >> the North Sea? >> >> As he drowned there would have been no inquest - no body. >> >> The death occurred sometime in mid to late 1862, a period when the >> newspapers were very scant in their reporting of such matters. >> >> The widow in question had several children, her last born in early January >> 1863. >> >> Apart from being being to survive till then, what were the requirements >> for >> remarriage and would there be any records needed for such an event? >> >> All input welcome. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Julie >> > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng- > lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng- > lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Don't be depressed Linda. The DNA topic enlivened this list and contributed greatly to show listers of its possibility of enhancing and improving our family researches. There will always be those too deeply entrenched in their ways (however great) to change. To use a common expression these days, "start thinking out of the box" Thank you and cheer up! Violet Sent from my iPad

Hi Julie Records of deaths at sea are slim, I could check those records available but unfortunately you did not post a name The most likely occurrence is that she presented herself as a widow and she was taken as such and she remarried Have you seen the marriage certificate? does she give herself as a widow? If not what did she give? In theory if seven years elapsed since his disappearance she could apply to the courts for a declaration of death and then be free to remarry, however in my experience few went through with the formalities and simply remarried, little if anything was asked for by way of proof of a persons condition, or even name or age As to survival, much would depend on her circumstances, whether she had the support of family or had taken a policy with a friendly society or similar, or even sought help from the parish Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 20/06/2018 21:13, Julie Tadman wrote: > Could I pose a question for all you clever and knowledgeable people. > > How would the widow of a great grand uncle be able to remarry only about > four years after her fisherman was lost at sea possibly off Grimsby or in > the North Sea? > > As he drowned there would have been no inquest - no body. > > The death occurred sometime in mid to late 1862, a period when the > newspapers were very scant in their reporting of such matters. > > The widow in question had several children, her last born in early January > 1863. > > Apart from being being to survive till then, what were the requirements for > remarriage and would there be any records needed for such an event? > > All input welcome. > > Many thanks, > > Julie

Could I pose a question for all you clever and knowledgeable people. How would the widow of a great grand uncle be able to remarry only about four years after her fisherman was lost at sea possibly off Grimsby or in the North Sea? As he drowned there would have been no inquest - no body. The death occurred sometime in mid to late 1862, a period when the newspapers were very scant in their reporting of such matters. The widow in question had several children, her last born in early January 1863. Apart from being being to survive till then, what were the requirements for remarriage and would there be any records needed for such an event? All input welcome. Many thanks, Julie

JmWell done Linda. In almost every strand of life, progress has taken us forward, that has to be recognised. If we don’t/can’t embrace that, it’s a pity. Progress doesn’t stand still. Let’s not spoil this warm, helpful list with hurtful remarks. Let’s all just keep going backwards in our research, using whatever is available to us. Happy days everyone and luck with your researches. Barbara. Sent from my iPad > On 20 Jun 2018, at 7:01 pm, Linda <vesey@dccnet.com> wrote: > > Thank you, Barbara > > Hi...I'm feeling a little depressed this morning after so many negative responses. > > I was so happy that at last the List seemed to be fixed and was flowing smoothly in the way it should and so wanted to share my latest success with you all. I'm sorry if talking about DNA was offensive to some. > > As some of you know, I've been one of you for many, many, years and I give you full credit in helping me find the records and methodically use them to put my mum's PLOWRIGHT side of my family heritage together. > > However, I cannot be accused of flighty genealogy practices. We on this side of the ocean have had record research places but we do not have the opportunity to just pop into Lincolnshire Archives on a Saturday morning so we have needed and still do need your help. I feel I have learned well from what you have taught me. I have found and met Lincolnshire cousins and visited them in the very same village of Wrangle where my grandfather Edward was born and grew up, I've found where my great grandfather James was born and raised in Heckington. I've found his wife's HOOTON side of the family at Deeping Fen. I've found the houses where the Plowrights lived, I read a newspaper coroner's report of how my great grandma committed suicide living with her daughter and family at Harlaxton. I've found and visited the graves of these my grandfather's Plowright parents at St. Helen, Mareham Le Fen in spite of her death in another village. And, have realized because of this tragedy my grandfath > er left England to come to his brother in Canada. > > I could go on and on but I believe I've made my point. I have attained all this information, strung the details together and written the stories, all without DNA. > And I will not be silenced from saying DNA has solved a brick wall question for me about a cousin connection. We cousins just wish our mothers were here to share the news with. > > OK, now I'm finished, > > Linda > B.C. > Canada > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Linda Keep it going and if DNA has been good for you that's  all that matters. I have been resarching my father's ancestry for nearly 40 years. A few weeks ago a cousin suggested  I join a new village Facebook page ( my father's village ). Since then I have discovered 9 new cousins that I had no idea existed.  Maybe there are Facebook pages in Lincs Villages that might help.  Keep up the good work ! Graham  Sent from Samsung tablet. -------- Original message --------From: Linda <vesey@dccnet.com> Date: 20/06/2018 19:01 (GMT+00:00) To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LIN] The PLOWRIGHT story Thank you, Barbara Hi...I'm feeling a little depressed this morning after so many negative responses. I was so happy that at last the List seemed to be fixed and was flowing smoothly in the way it should and so wanted to share my latest success with you all. I'm sorry if talking about DNA was offensive to some. As some of you know, I've been one of you for many, many, years and I give you full credit in helping me find the records and methodically use them to put my mum's PLOWRIGHT side of my family heritage together.                                                                                                                              However, I cannot be accused of flighty genealogy practices. We on this side of the ocean have had record research places but we do not have the opportunity to just pop into Lincolnshire Archives on a Saturday morning so we have needed and still do need your help.  I feel I have learned well from what you have taught me.  I have found and met Lincolnshire cousins and visited them in the very same village of Wrangle where my grandfather Edward was born and grew up, I've found where my great grandfather James was born and raised in Heckington. I've found his wife's HOOTON side of the family at Deeping Fen.  I've found the houses where the Plowrights lived,  I read a newspaper coroner's report of how my great grandma committed suicide living with her daughter and  family at Harlaxton. I've found and visited the graves of these my grandfather's Plowright parents at St. Helen, Mareham Le Fen in spite of her death in another village.  And, have realized because of this tragedy my grandfath er left England to come to his brother in Canada.  I could go on and on but I believe I've made my point. I have attained all  this information, strung the details together and written the stories, all without DNA. And I will not be silenced from saying DNA has solved a brick wall question for me about a cousin connection. We cousins just wish our mothers were here to share the news with. OK, now I'm finished, Linda B.C. Canada _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thank you, Barbara Hi...I'm feeling a little depressed this morning after so many negative responses. I was so happy that at last the List seemed to be fixed and was flowing smoothly in the way it should and so wanted to share my latest success with you all. I'm sorry if talking about DNA was offensive to some. As some of you know, I've been one of you for many, many, years and I give you full credit in helping me find the records and methodically use them to put my mum's PLOWRIGHT side of my family heritage together. However, I cannot be accused of flighty genealogy practices. We on this side of the ocean have had record research places but we do not have the opportunity to just pop into Lincolnshire Archives on a Saturday morning so we have needed and still do need your help. I feel I have learned well from what you have taught me. I have found and met Lincolnshire cousins and visited them in the very same village of Wrangle where my grandfather Edward was born and grew up, I've found where my great grandfather James was born and raised in Heckington. I've found his wife's HOOTON side of the family at Deeping Fen. I've found the houses where the Plowrights lived, I read a newspaper coroner's report of how my great grandma committed suicide living with her daughter and family at Harlaxton. I've found and visited the graves of these my grandfather's Plowright parents at St. Helen, Mareham Le Fen in spite of her death in another village. And, have realized because of this tragedy my grandfather left England to come to his brother in Canada. I could go on and on but I believe I've made my point. I have attained all this information, strung the details together and written the stories, all without DNA. And I will not be silenced from saying DNA has solved a brick wall question for me about a cousin connection. We cousins just wish our mothers were here to share the news with. OK, now I'm finished, Linda B.C. Canada

Thank you Michael The rewards of indexing/transcribing are tremendous. There is no better way to understand a group of records than to index or transcribe them. I have learned so much over the years about the poor law, quarter sessions, and now I'm enjoying learning about petty sessions as I transcribe those. Just dipping in to look at one or two entries, whatever the source, is just not the same. I've also been very lucky with helpers. I'm not a one man band, you know. Now that we can use photography I have had people transcribing and checking in America and Australia, as well as all over the UK. Anne Anne Cole, President, Lincolnshire Family History Society Lincolnshire Post 1837 Marriage Index http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/ Lincolnshire Family History Society http://www.lincolnshirefhs.org.uk

Hi. I really like the enthusiasm of both you and George for DNA research. Quite reassuring. Barbara. Sent from my iPad > On 20 Jun 2018, at 2:48 pm, Rex Johnson <rex1937@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear List, > > Nothing raises the temperature more than talking about DNA in a ‘Family History’ group – as the recent flurry of activity has shown. > > Talking DNA is a good way to lose friends and I usually dodge confrontations, because I get into trouble when I am honest. > > HOWEVER: I started researching family tree paper-trails over 50 years ago, reading original enumerator's Census Returns. There were then no BMDs or ancestral research sites available. I finished up with a tree showing 4,600 possible forebears, spent hours checking fiches at the Archives, and for a time did some transcribing guided by Anne – a remarkably hard working and dedicated LFHS member. I started DNA research 16 years ago, and the process has been a bit expensive, but has been worth every penny. My DNA work is exactly a family history study and anyone who considers it otherwise is deluding themselves. I have thoroughly enjoyed both above experiences, and both have enriched my life. > > Both are two sides of the same coin. Paper trails generally go back just a few hundred years. DNA trails for most people start then and go back thousands. Many people are put off DNA studies because they don’t understand it. Some of the techniques are complicated. Many people who are tested never get to understand it either. > > So, what is wrong with enjoying one aspect of family research, or the other, or both. We all have the choice, and should not be critical of anyone not following our options. > > For my money the LFHS should recognise the legitimacy of the DNA possibilities – even if it chooses to restrict activities to things it obviously does best. > > Just a couple more observations. > > I don’t believe it is possible to guarantee paper-trail trees – and that is why my own has not been put online. Paternity issues are so common (and always have been), that mistakes are inevitable – you can see the errors everywhere in Ancestry’s Members’ Trees. On the other hand, DNA trails are accurate – that is why the science is used to trace lost siblings or parents of children who have been adopted. > > Secondly, siblings do not inherit identical DNA from their parents. When looking at ‘ethnicity’ there is no reason why siblings should not come out with a different mix. All ethnicity results should be considered ‘approximate’. People put too much weight on them because they are easier to understand than what to do with the DNA marker results. > > 14,000 years ago, the British Isles were not inhabited – under swathes of ice. As the ice melted, immigrants moved in. In reality everyone one of us, whether in Britain or the United States, all have immigrant forebears. > > You can have European forbears who became British in later generations, but Britishness is a very recent concept in DNA terms. > > Have fun------ and be tolerant, Rex > > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thank you Rex, Linda B.C. Canada -----Original Message----- From: Rex Johnson [mailto:rex1937@gmail.com] Sent: June 20, 2018 6:48 AM To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LIN] DNA - time to put it to rest? Dear List, Nothing raises the temperature more than talking about DNA in a ‘Family History’ group – as the recent flurry of activity has shown. Talking DNA is a good way to lose friends and I usually dodge confrontations, because I get into trouble when I am honest. HOWEVER: I started researching family tree paper-trails over 50 years ago, reading original enumerator's Census Returns. There were then no BMDs or ancestral research sites available. I finished up with a tree showing 4,600 possible forebears, spent hours checking fiches at the Archives, and for a time did some transcribing guided by Anne – a remarkably hard working and dedicated LFHS member. I started DNA research 16 years ago, and the process has been a bit expensive, but has been worth every penny. My DNA work is exactly a family history study and anyone who considers it otherwise is deluding themselves. I have thoroughly enjoyed both above experiences, and both have enriched my life. Both are two sides of the same coin. Paper trails generally go back just a few hundred years. DNA trails for most people start then and go back thousands. Many people are put off DNA studies because they don’t understand it. Some of the techniques are complicated. Many people who are tested never get to understand it either. So, what is wrong with enjoying one aspect of family research, or the other, or both. We all have the choice, and should not be critical of anyone not following our options. For my money the LFHS should recognise the legitimacy of the DNA possibilities – even if it chooses to restrict activities to things it obviously does best. Just a couple more observations. I don’t believe it is possible to guarantee paper-trail trees – and that is why my own has not been put online. Paternity issues are so common (and always have been), that mistakes are inevitable – you can see the errors everywhere in Ancestry’s Members’ Trees. On the other hand, DNA trails are accurate – that is why the science is used to trace lost siblings or parents of children who have been adopted. Secondly, siblings do not inherit identical DNA from their parents. When looking at ‘ethnicity’ there is no reason why siblings should not come out with a different mix. All ethnicity results should be considered ‘approximate’. People put too much weight on them because they are easier to understand than what to do with the DNA marker results. 14,000 years ago, the British Isles were not inhabited – under swathes of ice. As the ice melted, immigrants moved in. In reality everyone one of us, whether in Britain or the United States, all have immigrant forebears. You can have European forbears who became British in later generations, but Britishness is a very recent concept in DNA terms. Have fun------ and be tolerant, Rex _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello Margaret, From my transcription done in the 1990s, which I am now checking, expanding and eventually preparing for publication on CD Rom: BASTARDY RECOGNIZANCE dated 10 July 1816. Mother: Mary DALTON of Leverton. Putative father: John BUCKNELL of Wrangle Farmer. [HQS A/1/1816/Boston/Michaelmas/76] This is from the Holland Quarter Sessions and there probably isn't any more information than I noted at the time. I started checking these, having finished extracting all the poor law stuff from the Kesteven QS, a month ago and have so far done from 1703 to 1710 so it will take me some time to get to 1816! It took me 4 years to do Kesteven but there isn't quite so much in Holland, although I'm finding more than I transcribed the first time round. The reference given in [ ] will be sufficient to order a copy of the document from Lincolnshire Archives if you would like one. Unfortunately there are no poor law documents for Leverton, so really nowhere else to look for more information. Coincidentally, we are about to publish, in August, the first Baptisms 1813-1837 CD which will cover the whole of the parts of Holland. I found on there: Jacob DAWTON baptized at Leverton 29 September 1816 illegitimate son of Mary DAWTON of Leverton, servant. Anne Anne Cole, President, Lincolnshire Family History Society Duncalf(e)/Duncuff/Duncuft One-name Study GOONS member 513 http://www.one-name.org/profiles/duncalf.html http://duncalfonenamestudy.tribalpages.com/ Lincolnshire Post 1837 Marriage Index http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/ Lincolnshire Family History Society http://www.lincolnshirefhs.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: Margaret Siudek <msiudek@hotmail.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:01 PM To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LIN] Re: DALTON I also have a query, and he's my GG grandfather, Jacob DALTON. A 1955 family tree says he was born in 27th September 1816. I have his marriage and all children / grandchildren, mostly living in Leake to start, but them spreading across the country.. His family dedicated a church window to Jacob and his wife Caroline JACKSON at about the same time as the tree being drawn up. The only Jacob DALTON born around that time, that I've been able to find is Jacob DAWTON/DAULTON in Leverton on that exact date given by the tree, so whoever drew up the tree must have had that baptism in mind- even if, perhaps, mistakenly. Mother was Mary and he was illegitimate. In the 1841 census he's in Leake with Susanna Dalton and 2 other slightly older young men, Isaac and Zaccheus. Family connections unknown as it's 1841. But Cyprian and Suanna Dalton of Leake & Friskney had a large family including a daughter Mary in 1797, Isaac in 1809 and Zaccheus in 1814. They also had a Jacob who was born in 1811 and died in 1814. It seemed to me entirely possible, if unprovable, that their daughter Mary had a illegitimate son in 1816 called Jacob after her brother who died, and she then married or died, and her son Jacob was living at the time of the 1841 census with his grandmother and 2 uncles. Cyprian died in 1832. I have Jacob and Caroline in the following censuses. All well and good, if only to my satisfaction, until I discovered that Mary daughter of Cyprian died at the age of 6 months. There doesn't appear to be another daughter called Mary to the couple. Can anyone else find another Jacob Dalton born about 1816? Or what happened to Mary Dalton after Jacob was born? Margaret > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@roots > web.com/ > > Archives: > https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@roots > web.com/ > > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thank you Pauline! Linda B.C. Canada -----Original Message----- From: Pauline & Arthur Kennedy [mailto:akpak@balmnet.co.uk] Sent: June 20, 2018 5:29 AM To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com; Lincolnshire mailList <ENG-Lincsgen-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LIN] Re: DNA On 20/06/2018 00:33, KAREN GLASS wrote: > I would much rather do the legwork proving my family history finds. It's not an either/or, and taking a DNA test will never remove the need for legwork. DNA is an additional resource not a replacement for traditional research methods - something that can help confirm we are on the right track with what we've already found in the records and, if we strike lucky, point us in new directions to explore. Yes, there are those for whom DNA testing is the 'be all and end all' of their research, just like there are those who do no more than collect names from other online trees. Many years ago people were saying much the same kind of thing about 'internet researchers', assuming that anyone who looked online for information inevitably viewed checking original records and visiting archives as unnecessary. There are many folk who are wholly committed to serious, accurate and in-depth research in original records while nevertheless taking advantage of newly available resources - once the internet, and now DNA. And the 'the thrill of the hunt' can be experienced in any of them. Pauline _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.co m/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.co m/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I'll look forward to it Karen! Anne Anne Cole, President, Lincolnshire Family History Society Lincolnshire Post 1837 Marriage Index http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/ Lincolnshire Family History Society http://www.lincolnshirefhs.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: KAREN GLASS <kglass18@mac.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 12:33 AM To: Lincolnshire mailList <ENG-Lincsgen-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LIN] DNA Hi List, I have had my mtDNA and my brother’s Y-DNA done. So far I haven’t had any success at all. I’m with Anne… I think the testing is good for some people, but I have kind of found it useless to me. I would much rather do the legwork proving my family history finds. I’m now back to the early 1600s on my Lincolnshire PORTAS family and the collateral lines. I like the thrill of the hunt. I have been helped so much by this list and the knowledgeable researchers who monitor the list. Anne Cole has been a treasure. I will be at the Lincs Archives first week in August. I am looking forward to going through the resources held at LA and hope to be there when Anne is. This trip lends the least amount of time to research in the archives. My last trip I gathered wills. This trip I’ll go for Settlements and poor laws. I’ve got my priority list started. Kind regards, Karen Glass, Illinois LFHS # C6288 Blog: http://familyhistorywithalookingglass.blogspot.com kglass18@mac.com PORTEOUS DNA Surname Project (includes PORTAS) - http://www.familytreedna.com/public/porteous Researching in: UK--Lincolnshire, Yorkshire; USA--Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan; CA--Ontario, Alberta; AU and NZ [includes all spelling variations] PORTEOUS; PORTAS; PORTUS; BIRKETT, DOBBS, MOOR, SALMON VAMPLEW; VANPLEW; ROUSE, ROWSE PATCHETT "Give Peace a Chance" _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Dear List, Nothing raises the temperature more than talking about DNA in a ‘Family History’ group – as the recent flurry of activity has shown. Talking DNA is a good way to lose friends and I usually dodge confrontations, because I get into trouble when I am honest. HOWEVER: I started researching family tree paper-trails over 50 years ago, reading original enumerator's Census Returns. There were then no BMDs or ancestral research sites available. I finished up with a tree showing 4,600 possible forebears, spent hours checking fiches at the Archives, and for a time did some transcribing guided by Anne – a remarkably hard working and dedicated LFHS member. I started DNA research 16 years ago, and the process has been a bit expensive, but has been worth every penny. My DNA work is exactly a family history study and anyone who considers it otherwise is deluding themselves. I have thoroughly enjoyed both above experiences, and both have enriched my life. Both are two sides of the same coin. Paper trails generally go back just a few hundred years. DNA trails for most people start then and go back thousands. Many people are put off DNA studies because they don’t understand it. Some of the techniques are complicated. Many people who are tested never get to understand it either. So, what is wrong with enjoying one aspect of family research, or the other, or both. We all have the choice, and should not be critical of anyone not following our options. For my money the LFHS should recognise the legitimacy of the DNA possibilities – even if it chooses to restrict activities to things it obviously does best. Just a couple more observations. I don’t believe it is possible to guarantee paper-trail trees – and that is why my own has not been put online. Paternity issues are so common (and always have been), that mistakes are inevitable – you can see the errors everywhere in Ancestry’s Members’ Trees. On the other hand, DNA trails are accurate – that is why the science is used to trace lost siblings or parents of children who have been adopted. Secondly, siblings do not inherit identical DNA from their parents. When looking at ‘ethnicity’ there is no reason why siblings should not come out with a different mix. All ethnicity results should be considered ‘approximate’. People put too much weight on them because they are easier to understand than what to do with the DNA marker results. 14,000 years ago, the British Isles were not inhabited – under swathes of ice. As the ice melted, immigrants moved in. In reality everyone one of us, whether in Britain or the United States, all have immigrant forebears. You can have European forbears who became British in later generations, but Britishness is a very recent concept in DNA terms. Have fun------ and be tolerant, Rex

I quite agree quality over quantity. I like to know more about the ones I have found and proved to my family members. Old wills are a wonderful informative source for example. Much easier to find with the help such as people like Anne Cole and many others who have spent countless hours indexing really anything they can get their hands on. It amazes me when I have heard some say they have done their tree and never stepped in an archive. To me they are the ones missing out, especially those serendipity moments. ADM records at national archives have me going all day without stopping -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 20/6/18, francisp <francisp@xtra.co.nz> wrote: Subject: [LIN] Re: DNA? To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Date: Wednesday, 20 June, 2018, 0:02 Read Anne's email again. Finding out not only the names of your ancestors but what they did, what happened to them, etc. So that they are not just names and numbers on a family tree. Quality over quantity, if you like. Francis Auckland, NZ Sent from Samsung tablet. -------- Original message --------From: George Jamieson <georgejamieson@btconnect.com> Date: 20/06/18  12:25 AM  (GMT+10:00) To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LIN] Re: DNA? Francis,Please tell me the point of family history. I'm obviously missing something here.George Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message --------From: francisp <francisp@xtra.co.nz> Date: 19/06/2018  13:44  (GMT+00:00) To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LIN] Re: DNA? Best post ever? This obsession with DNA has obscured the whole point of family history research.  Francis Auckland,  NZ Sent from Samsung tablet. -------- Original message --------From: Anne Cole <duncalf@one-name.org> Date: 19/06/18  10:27 PM  (GMT+10:00) To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [LIN] DNA? Dear list, I'm afraid I have absolutely no time whatsoever for DNA, in more ways than one. I am far too busy transcribing the wonderful stuff at Lincolnshire Archives that is unavailable in any other form to worry about DNA. Unfortunately people seem to be far more interested in DNA than finding out whether their ancestors were fined for playing football on Sunday, or whether they served as an overseer of the poor, or as a constable, or how much their annual wages were if they were hired for annual service. That to me is family history. DNA is far more aligned to Genealogy, which is only the bare bones of family history. Call me a dinosaur or ostrich if you will, it is only my personal view. Hopefully one day some of you will appreciate all the work we are doing to bring these fascinating sources to Lincolnshire researchers. Anne Anne Cole, President, Lincolnshire Family History Society Lincolnshire Post 1837 Marriage Index http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/ Lincolnshire Family History Society http://www.lincolnshirefhs.org.uk _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com/ Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

On 20/06/2018 00:33, KAREN GLASS wrote: > I would much rather do the legwork proving my family history finds. It's not an either/or, and taking a DNA test will never remove the need for legwork. DNA is an additional resource not a replacement for traditional research methods - something that can help confirm we are on the right track with what we've already found in the records and, if we strike lucky, point us in new directions to explore. Yes, there are those for whom DNA testing is the 'be all and end all' of their research, just like there are those who do no more than collect names from other online trees. Many years ago people were saying much the same kind of thing about 'internet researchers', assuming that anyone who looked online for information inevitably viewed checking original records and visiting archives as unnecessary. There are many folk who are wholly committed to serious, accurate and in-depth research in original records while nevertheless taking advantage of newly available resources - once the internet, and now DNA. And the 'the thrill of the hunt' can be experienced in any of them. Pauline