I appear to have more unmarried 'wives' than married in Lincolnshire. Looks like you (that is the collective you) started as a housekeeper and graduated to wife between the census. God bless 'em, if it wasnt for them, I certainly wouldn't be here! Louise ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Mills" <louis_mills@att.net> To: <eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 4:34 AM Subject: [LIN] Admin. note: June theme Can you prove that you are married? Do you know where your copy of the marriage certificate is? Oh, that's OK, we won't tell anyone if you can't prove it. I've heard the excuses. "The courthouse burned down." "The records must have been destroyed during the war." "The local Registrar must have forgotten to send them in." Fact is, a few of our ancestors never "tied the knot" officially. Some didn't bother to divorce the first wife or husband (divorce is a relatively recent invention). So, for the religious conservative, there were a lot of "acts of immorality" going on. You might have a few in your tree. The old Germanic tribal custom, before the growth of Christianity, was that you were married if you spent the night together. Simple, straight forward and final. So, your task for June is to find out if they really did marry. Did they flit off to Hull to tie that knot, or up to Gretna Green? There were several places in England where the vicar didn't ask embarrassing questions and might let you marry regardless of age or stupidity. As long as you paid the fee. It might explain why you can't find them in the Lincolnshire FHS marriage indexes. And if you want a little fun, look up "Wife sale" in the archives of this mailing list. SO ask for help. Hmmm, where did I put MY marriage certificate? Oh, Honey, are we married? Lou (list admin.) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LINCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

G'day George We have a match! And Ann Markham and Fred Garthwaite are certainly part of my family tree. I will contact you off-list with all the details. Best regards Philip Markham (Denmark) -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: George Herring [mailto:chuditch@iinet.net.au] Sendt: 30. maj 2012 10:26 Til: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Emne: [LIN] Anne Markham G'day Phillip...thank you for the response...another researcher [Jennifer Naylor of Humphreys Family Tree] came up with Ann on My Heritage. Jennifer only recorded Annie [born 1878 Killingholme, Lincolnshire, England] and married Fred Garthwaite in 1899 at Grimsby, Fred is the son of Sarah Driffill an extended cousin of my wife Gwen.. If these Markhams are related to you I would appreciate details of the connection... We live in Busselton, 240 KM's South of Perth, Western Australia.. Regards....George

Can you prove that you are married?  Do you know where your copy of the marriage certificate is?  Oh, that's OK, we won't tell anyone if you can't prove it. I've heard the excuses.  "The courthouse burned down."  "The records must have been destroyed during the war."  "The local Registrar must have forgotten to send them in." Fact is, a few of our ancestors never "tied the knot" officially.  Some didn't bother to divorce the first wife or husband (divorce is a relatively recent invention).  So, for the religious conservative, there were a lot of "acts of immorality" going on.  You might have a few in your tree.  The old Germanic tribal custom, before the growth of Christianity, was that you were married if you spent the night together.  Simple, straight forward and final. So, your task for June is to find out if they really did marry.  Did they flit off to Hull to tie that knot, or up to Gretna Green?  There were several places in England where the vicar didn't ask embarrassing questions and might let you marry regardless of age or stupidity.  As long as you paid the fee. It might explain why you can't find them in the Lincolnshire FHS marriage indexes.  And if you want a little fun, look up "Wife sale" in the archives of this mailing list.  SO ask for help. Hmmm, where did I put MY marriage certificate?  Oh, Honey, are we married?     Lou (list admin.)

Hi, Missing Lincs,     You may remember back in February that Pat Cook sent a series of letters to this list that she had transcribed.  They were from a young man, Joe Smith, back to his family in Kirkby-cum-Osgodby and related his experiences, thoughts and progress in joining the Royal Navy in late 1915 through most of 1916.  It must have been difficult to go from a young lad working the fields in Lincolnshire to serving on one of His Majesty's destroyers.     I've placed those letters on the Genuki wsebsite, along with Pat's comments, for all to see.  The address is: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/KirkbycumOsgodby/#MilitaryHis     There are 31 letters and a short post card, followed by an epilog and a letter from Joe's father.  Enjoy.         Lou

G'day Listers The THORNHILL - DRAPER connection is growing in Australia Where is joelenes@bigpond.com who emailed me in 2005 who had a THRONHILL connection? I have three connection - new in Australia Chris DYKE/RENTON in Bendigo Victoria Adam DYKE in Portland Victoria Tony THorNHILL in Melbourn Victoria Myself in Southend (on Sea) South Australia Is anyboydy in Lincs following the DRAPER - THORNE families? Bridget DRAPER-WILKINSON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

G'day Phillip...thank you for the response...another researcher [Jennifer Naylor of Humphreys Family Tree] came up with Ann on My Heritage. Jennifer only recorded Annie [born 1878 Killingholme, Lincolnshire, England] and married Fred Garthwaite in 1899 at Grimsby, Fred is the son of Sarah Driffill an extended cousin of my wife Gwen.. If these Markhams are related to you I would appreciate details of the connection... We live in Busselton, 240 KM's South of Perth, Western Australia.. Regards....George

On the letter M theme, I am trying to find determine what happened to a Mary JOHNSON, sister of my 4 x great grandfather Joseph JOHNSON. Mary was born in Elton HUN in 1789, daughter of John and Ann. Joseph was also born in Elton in 1794, but at some stage the family moved to Lincolnshire. As far as I can determine John and Ann Johnson were buried in Sutton St Edmund in 1810 and 1816 respectively, Ann recorded as being of Fleet when she was buried. Joseph Johnson married Mary ROBERTS in Tydd St Mary in 1819, the witnesses being James Johnson and Mary Johnson, who seem likely to have been his brother and sister. (James Johnson was born in Elton in 1791 and was a farmer in Sutton St James.) With my Joseph Johnson in the 1841 census (HO 107 611/10 Fo: 33) is a Mary DICKINS, aged 50, not born in Lincolnshire, and I wonder if she may have been his sister Mary, married some time after he was. (The surname is a bit unclear in the census, but I'm pretty sure it is Dickins.) A Mary Johnson of Fleet married Thomas DIXON in Gedney Hill in 1820, and I wonder if this marriage could be relevant, with Dickins and Dixon being confused in the census. Unfortunately the names of the two witnesses at this marriage - John REDHEAD & James KNOWLES - don't mean anything to me, and as I haven't so far been able to find anything further on the couple, nor on the Mary in the 1841 census, I don't know if I'm chasing my ancestor's sister or red herrings. Any help in locating the right Mary Johnson would be much appreciated. Many thanks Pauline

I have 7 of my Markham's from Killingholme (both South and North) including my grandfather b. 1881. One of his sisters was Ann b. 1876 though not 1878. All of my Markhams from the mid 1800´s came from nearby Ulceby George Markham 1801-1877 and Ann née Codd 1804-1878 (my gggrandparents) Please contact me off-list if it is of interest. Philip Markham (Denmark) -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: George Herring [mailto:chuditch@iinet.net.au] Sendt: 28. maj 2012 09:49 Til: Bart Simon; eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Emne: Re: [LIN] Markhams in Wootton Is Annie Markham [1878] of Killingholme, Lincolnshire one of your lot...if so could be related....George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Simon" <thewanderer@iburst.co.za> To: "Louis Mills" <louis_mills@att.net>; <eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [LIN] Markhams in Wootton > Mye Goodye Cosynes !!! > > http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.markham/864/mb.ashx > > Two of [William Allison Markham]'s sons were : Frederick + Walter Markham. > The two Markhams here are brothers !!!?. I can only assume that this > plaque containing the names of two brothers who died WWI, in the town ''at > that time'', where and when William Allison Markham was living there. They > should be brothers being remembered where they were living before they > went to war at that time ..... > === === === > http://essex1841.com/Lagden-SEAX-info.shtml > > Use above URL for one example. I have a ''Genealogy Question'' for > everyone too. This is NOT Lincs based as such, but Essex. Maybe something > for one to think about. I can't find anyone to answer the question. In > Essex, all about, but also say near or in Rayne near Braintree near Earls > Colne, and about, there is a use of the phrase or name or naming pattern > of: Abraham Aham (!!!). This AA seems to be a surname as well as a > first/second name pattern phrase. I have not seen the original to comment > much further. Many people having this pattern had some criminal > involvement or link. It is quite widely used. The word 'Interdict' might > have something to do with this, or it is an actual name/surname/forename > being used. At first I just thought this was an OCR error on the SEAX > website. But not the case. Because the Rayne records don't exist for the > time line I need, I can't say yet. > > [Richard Abraham aham]: that is how his name is given. > > [Abraham**%% Aham Markham]: An OCR I suppose, but basically [Abraham Aham > Markham]. He had a son [Abraham Markham]. > > What is: [Abraham Aham] ?. > > Sir Ken Markham, K.C.B. (95) ..... > ================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: Louis Mills > Subject: [LIN] Markhams in Wootton > > Place: WOOTTON > Time World War One > MARKHAM Frederick > MARKHAM Walter > > PS: Roll of Honour at: > http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Lincolnshire/Wootton.html > ================================================ > > > > > >

Is Annie Markham [1878] of Killingholme, Lincolnshire one of your lot...if so could be related....George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Simon" <thewanderer@iburst.co.za> To: "Louis Mills" <louis_mills@att.net>; <eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [LIN] Markhams in Wootton > Mye Goodye Cosynes !!! > > http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.markham/864/mb.ashx > > Two of [William Allison Markham]'s sons were : Frederick + Walter Markham. > The two Markhams here are brothers !!!?. I can only assume that this > plaque containing the names of two brothers who died WWI, in the town ''at > that time'', where and when William Allison Markham was living there. They > should be brothers being remembered where they were living before they > went to war at that time ..... > === === === > http://essex1841.com/Lagden-SEAX-info.shtml > > Use above URL for one example. I have a ''Genealogy Question'' for > everyone too. This is NOT Lincs based as such, but Essex. Maybe something > for one to think about. I can't find anyone to answer the question. In > Essex, all about, but also say near or in Rayne near Braintree near Earls > Colne, and about, there is a use of the phrase or name or naming pattern > of: Abraham Aham (!!!). This AA seems to be a surname as well as a > first/second name pattern phrase. I have not seen the original to comment > much further. Many people having this pattern had some criminal > involvement or link. It is quite widely used. The word 'Interdict' might > have something to do with this, or it is an actual name/surname/forename > being used. At first I just thought this was an OCR error on the SEAX > website. But not the case. Because the Rayne records don't exist for the > time line I need, I can't say yet. > > [Richard Abraham aham]: that is how his name is given. > > [Abraham**%% Aham Markham]: An OCR I suppose, but basically [Abraham Aham > Markham]. He had a son [Abraham Markham]. > > What is: [Abraham Aham] ?. > > Sir Ken Markham, K.C.B. (95) ..... > ================================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: Louis Mills > Subject: [LIN] Markhams in Wootton > > Place: WOOTTON > Time World War One > MARKHAM Frederick > MARKHAM Walter > > PS: Roll of Honour at: > http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Lincolnshire/Wootton.html > ================================================ > > > > > >

Mye Goodye Cosynes !!! http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.markham/864/mb.ashx Two of [William Allison Markham]'s sons were : Frederick + Walter Markham. The two Markhams here are brothers !!!?. I can only assume that this plaque containing the names of two brothers who died WWI, in the town ''at that time'', where and when William Allison Markham was living there. They should be brothers being remembered where they were living before they went to war at that time ..... === === === http://essex1841.com/Lagden-SEAX-info.shtml Use above URL for one example. I have a ''Genealogy Question'' for everyone too. This is NOT Lincs based as such, but Essex. Maybe something for one to think about. I can't find anyone to answer the question. In Essex, all about, but also say near or in Rayne near Braintree near Earls Colne, and about, there is a use of the phrase or name or naming pattern of: Abraham Aham (!!!). This AA seems to be a surname as well as a first/second name pattern phrase. I have not seen the original to comment much further. Many people having this pattern had some criminal involvement or link. It is quite widely used. The word 'Interdict' might have something to do with this, or it is an actual name/surname/forename being used. At first I just thought this was an OCR error on the SEAX website. But not the case. Because the Rayne records don't exist for the time line I need, I can't say yet. [Richard Abraham aham]: that is how his name is given. [Abraham**%% Aham Markham]: An OCR I suppose, but basically [Abraham Aham Markham]. He had a son [Abraham Markham]. What is: [Abraham Aham] ?. Sir Ken Markham, K.C.B. (95) ..... ================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Louis Mills Subject: [LIN] Markhams in Wootton Place: WOOTTON Time World War One MARKHAM Frederick MARKHAM Walter PS: Roll of Honour at: http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Lincolnshire/Wootton.html ================================================

Hi, Missing Lincs,     The Roll of Honour site lists two MARKHAMs on the Wootton War Memorial plques, but doesn't have any information on them.  I KNOW we have MARKHAM experts, so tell us about these men. Place:  WOOTTON Time  World War One MARKHAM Frederick MARKHAM Walter         Lou PS:  Roll of Honour at:  http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Lincolnshire/Wootton.html

On 22/05/2012 5:00 PM, eng-lincsgen-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Today's Topics: > > 1. Richards (Barbara Titherington) > 2. Re: Richards (Mick Claxton) > > > > To contact the ENG-LINCSGEN list administrator, send an email to > ENG-LINCSGEN-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the ENG-LINCSGEN mailing list, send an email to ENG-LINCSGEN@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LINCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5014 - Release Date: 05/21/12 > Thanks Mick, I must admit I didn't check that. Barbara.

Hi Victor So pleased you like the War Memorials in Oz! The one in Canberra is magnificent, isn't it, with the vista across the lake to Parliament House. Also the big museum accompanying it. Getting a bit nippy in Canberra now, though! - late autumn. Like you, I haven't looked at the names there as my father, a Signalman in the British Army just for the war, was killed in WWII in Holland, where he is buried. I presume his name is on the Leicester War Memorial, although I haven't looked there either. It was definitely in our old Methodist Church in Leicester, along with two other names, on a brass plaque but when we visited in 1994 alterations had been made to the church and the plaque and the whole wall it was on had been removed. Re the Geraldton one, our only visit to Geraldton was on a cruise round Australia a few years ago. I like to buy a small souvenir of every place we visit but was prevented from getting to any shops there as our bus trip ashore spent a long time at that memorial to HMAS Sydney, which sank in the Indian Ocean in, I think, WWII. Some people on the bus complained they didn't have enough time at the memorial as it is important and I suppose it's an important event in Australia's history. I don't remember that the war memorials in England were not as good as ours. The Leicester one, which I think was locally called the cenotaph, was big with the same architecture as the Canberra one. I know that, as it is here, small towns and villages all have their own war memorials too. Isn't that just typical of councils to reject plans and then approve the same plans when submitted later! They're just the same over here. Jan Marchant NSW Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Markham" <victor@markham.me.uk> To: <eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [LIN] Colsterworth parish war memorial > Hi Louise > > I imagine that the death locals will be reported in the papers but much > depends on what information was available. > > My step brother's death, before I was born, was reported in the Hull > Daily Mail. I have a copy of his death report. His ship was sunk by an > Italian sub in NW Scotland in the second war. Come to think of it I have > never seen his name on a war memorial in the Hull area but then I > haven't looked. Since he was in the Merchant Navy it could have been on > a memorial at St. Barnabas Church, which has been demolished. The Hull > Daily Mail reported his memorial service there. > > On an another matter, which had nothing to do with family search, I > searched some old newspapers in Brighton History Centre looking up > details of women in the police in the First War. Here I came across > loads of photos of men killed and these were on the front pages of the > Brighton Herald. > > Since you are in Australia I would like to say the best war memorial I > have ever come across was the Anzac Memorial in Canberra. It is huge > though I don't recall any names on it but then I was not looking for > any. Australia have other war memorials all better than any I have seen > in England. The last time I went to Beverley archives I was looking at > the minute book for Cottingham UDC. My grandfather, who was a > councillor, proposed that they erect a war memorial. It was agreed and > plans were drawn up for approval. These were then submitted to the > council and were rejected as 'over elaborate' ! and the committee were > asked to look into it again. The plans were re submitted without any > changes and voted for and passed with 2 councillors voted against. I got > all this information from the minute book and took photos of the pages. > The war memorial is in Hallgate, Cottingham. Now that I know this I look > at it every time I pass and remember my grandfather, Arthur Dixon. > > With the original rejections of plans I just wonder how many other > councils rejected plans for war memorials in their area? Australia have > good memorial even in Western Australia. I liked the one at Geralton > HMAS Sydney Memorial. > > This poor war memorial in England is catching up as new ones have been > erected over London, on the embankment and Constitution Hill and other > places > > Victor > > On 24/05/2012 1:39 AM, Louise Read wrote: >> Hi Lou, >> >> I have had a look at the war memorial as suggested, and there are >> unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, no >> relatives >> that belong to me. >> >> I do have a question though, was it customary in the UK to report the >> locals >> who had been killed during war times in the newspapers? >> I know here in Australia there was always a list of those casualties and >> it >> was just a thought that if someone local had the time and inclination >> they >> could look through the local papers of the time and maybe identify some >> of >> these men and women. >> I would be more than willing to do this, if only I lived closer! >> >> Regards >> Louise >> Perth WA

Hello Victor, I am lead to believe that any memorials that are on cenotaphs or in buildings such as churches are relocated. My grandmother's two brothers who were killed during WW1 are both listed on a memorial inside St James church in Grimsby. I have looked at them, and they were, I have been told, originally on a monument in Grimsby, but due to vandalism they were moved. Yes the Canberra War Memorial is memorable and there are many, many names on the walls, after ANZAC Day & Rememberance Day, the walls are covered in poppies, a remarkable sight. We do have a War Memorial here in Perth atop Kings Park, overlooking the city and the river, that also has walls filled with names of the men and women who perished. Next time I am in the UK I would like to visit the Bomber Command memorial in London which is of interest to me as my father was ground crew for the 460th squadron. He was RAAF, and was stationed at Binbrook, where I believe a Heritage Centre is being slowly built, and that also is a great project. Louise ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Markham" <victor@markham.me.uk> To: <eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [LIN] Colsterworth parish war memorial > Hi Louise > > I imagine that the death locals will be reported in the papers but much > depends on what information was available. > > My step brother's death, before I was born, was reported in the Hull > Daily Mail. I have a copy of his death report. His ship was sunk by an > Italian sub in NW Scotland in the second war. Come to think of it I have > never seen his name on a war memorial in the Hull area but then I > haven't looked. Since he was in the Merchant Navy it could have been on > a memorial at St. Barnabas Church, which has been demolished. The Hull > Daily Mail reported his memorial service there. > > On an another matter, which had nothing to do with family search, I > searched some old newspapers in Brighton History Centre looking up > details of women in the police in the First War. Here I came across > loads of photos of men killed and these were on the front pages of the > Brighton Herald. > > Since you are in Australia I would like to say the best war memorial I > have ever come across was the Anzac Memorial in Canberra. It is huge > though I don't recall any names on it but then I was not looking for > any. Australia have other war memorials all better than any I have seen > in England. The last time I went to Beverley archives I was looking at > the minute book for Cottingham UDC. My grandfather, who was a > councillor, proposed that they erect a war memorial. It was agreed and > plans were drawn up for approval. These were then submitted to the > council and were rejected as 'over elaborate' ! and the committee were > asked to look into it again. The plans were re submitted without any > changes and voted for and passed with 2 councillors voted against. I got > all this information from the minute book and took photos of the pages. > The war memorial is in Hallgate, Cottingham. Now that I know this I look > at it every time I pass and remember my grandfather, Arthur Dixon. > > With the original rejections of plans I just wonder how many other > councils rejected plans for war memorials in their area? Australia have > good memorial even in Western Australia. I liked the one at Geralton > HMAS Sydney Memorial. > > This poor war memorial in England is catching up as new ones have been > erected over London, on the embankment and Constitution Hill and other > places > > Victor > >

Back in the 1980s we used to have census night parties. At one I remember there were 49 people sleeping on the living room floor. We all carefully filled in the census form. I wonder what future historians will make of that! John In message <1337298252.35229.YahooMailNeo@web180304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>, Louis Mills <louis_mills@att.net> writes >Ahh, Anne, I wonder if my descendents would make the same assumptions >about my wife and I if they couldn't find us home during the first >three years of our marriage.  Me out at sea searching for a lost >fisherman all night, coming home in the late morning; my wife coming >home from the hospital just after noon, where she'd been in the lab all >night running blood samples (toxicology tests) on seven people injured >in an auto accident.  There are more than just crying babies keeping us >from our sleep and our beds. > >    Lou > > > >________________________________ >From: Anne Cole <duncalf@one-name.org> >To: 'Bart Simon' <thewanderer@iburst.co.za>; eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com >Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 4:16 PM >Subject: Re: [LIN] [MARKHAM-UK]  George Markham b:1823 Louth Lincs [!!!] > >The census asked for all those who slept in the house on the night that the >census was taken, not who was there during the daytime! > >I am reminded of the chap who handed in a blank form. He told the enumerator >that his wife had been delivered of twins the night before and no-one had >slept in the house since! (sorry!) > >Anne > >Anne Cole, President, Lincolnshire Family History Society >-snip- > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-LINCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- John Rouse

LRSM - Lincoln, Rutland & Stamford Mercury Full details from the newspaper are given below; I have no further information. LRSM 18 July 1856 Boston Petty Sessions 16 July An order was made upon Henry CHAMBERS, of Wragby, for payment of 2s. a week and costs towards the maintenance of an illegitimate child belonging to Mary Ann PARKER, of Kirton, singlewoman. Alford Petty Sessions 15 July Orders in bastardy were granted against Jas. HURTON, of Mablethorpe, for 1s. 6d. per week and costs, on the application of Maria FARROW, of Beesby. Louth Petty Sessions 11 July Maurice BOSS, a jew hawker, was charged by Martha SMITH, of Field's yard, with being the father of her illegitimate child, and she asked the court to make an order upon him for its maintenance. Mr. A. SHARPLEY appeared for the defendant. The case occupied the court some time, and an order was made for the payment of 1s. 6d. per week from the date of the summons. Previous found bastardy cases, from 1840, can be found here http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/bastardycases.html Anne Cole, President, Lincolnshire Family History Society Duncalf(e)/Duncuff/Duncuft One-name Study GOONS member 513 http://www.one-name.org/profiles/duncalf.html Lincolnshire Post 1837 Marriage Index http://mi.lincolnshiremarriages.org.uk/ Lincolnshire Family History Society http://www.lincolnshirefhs.org.uk

Well summed up Lou.  Bazza ________________________________ From: Louis Mills <louis_mills@att.net> To: "eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com" <eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2012, 16:43 Subject: Re: [LIN] Colsterworth parish war memorial Hi, Victor,     One must remember that War Memorials give the term "cast in stone" a new meaning. 1.  Many men (and women) just weren't listed.  Record-keeping wasn't perfect and some people were left off for petty reasons. 2.  Some warriors may never have lived in the parish, but their parents moved there later.  Easier to put your son on the local memorial than to try to deal with a parish 50 miles away.  We have a few people listed on two memorials. 3..Some men "disappeared".  Were they blown into a bloody mist, buried hastily, left in a river?  Who knows.  Perhaps they deserted.  Maybe they found a nice girl in Belgium and settled down. 4.  Some names were changed to protect someone.  We can't find some of the people listed.  Did they enlist under a step-father's name?  Did they have something to hide?  Did they use an older siblings name?  I sometimes think the enlistment office looked a young man up and down and said, "Yeah, we can find a uniform to fit him." 5.  Some men died on temporary assignment to other units, so the family may insist he was in the Royal Artillery when, in fact, he was a Signals man posted to a unit to help with communications.  Happens today, even. 6.  Some are listed because it was thought they died. but you might find them in a post-war census.  One of my relatives jumped ship from a Navy cruiser just days before the Battle of Coronel.  I suspect he is listed as one of those "lost" when the ship went down. 7.  So much was hand-written before the days of computers, and transcription errors crept in.  Of course, we never make mistrakes today. And I'm sure I've left a few things out.  Suffice it to say, the war memorials are a bit like the census.  Useful, but sometimes confusing.  I always check the Commonwealth War Graves database, but they have a lot of errors and omissions, too.  We do the best we can.     Lou ________________________________ From: Victor Markham <victor@markham.me.uk> To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [LIN] Colsterworth parish war memorial Hi Louise I imagine that the death locals will be reported in the papers but much depends on what information was available. My step brother's death, before I was born, was reported in the Hull Daily Mail. I have a copy of his death report. His ship was sunk by an Italian sub in NW Scotland in the second war. Come to think of it I have never seen his name on a war memorial in the Hull area but then I haven't looked. Since he was in the Merchant Navy it could have been on a memorial at St. Barnabas Church, which has been demolished. The Hull Daily Mail reported his memorial service there. On an another matter, which had nothing to do with family search, I searched some old newspapers in Brighton History Centre looking up details of women in the police in the First War. Here I came across loads of photos of men killed and these were on the front pages of the Brighton Herald. Since you are in Australia I would like to say the best war memorial I have ever come across was the Anzac Memorial in Canberra. It is huge though I don't recall any names on it but then I was not looking for any. Australia have other war memorials all better than any I have seen in England. The last time I went to Beverley archives I was looking at the minute book for Cottingham UDC. My grandfather, who was a councillor, proposed that they erect a war memorial. It was agreed and plans were drawn up for approval. These were then submitted to the council and were rejected as 'over elaborate' ! and the committee were asked to look into it again. The plans were re submitted without any changes and voted for and passed with 2 councillors voted against. I got all this information from the minute book and took photos of the pages. The war memorial is in Hallgate, Cottingham. Now that I know this I look at it every time I pass and remember my grandfather, Arthur Dixon. With the original rejections of plans I just wonder how many other councils rejected plans for war memorials in their area? Australia have good memorial even in Western Australia. I liked the one at Geralton HMAS Sydney Memorial. This poor war memorial in England is catching up as new ones have been erected over London, on the embankment and Constitution Hill and other places Victor ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LINCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, Louise, you done good.  Thanks for checking.  I always like telling people about "other" resources because we get so used to just using the census or parish registers and it's nice to be able to flesh-out some of our kinfolks' lives. Yes, casualties were often listed in the newspapers.  But sometimes there were so many that not all made it into print.  The newspapers are also a good resource for civilian casualties. I also encourage everyone to type an ancestor's name into the search box at the National Archives.  I found a record from my father's service in World War II in there.  I paid a small fee for a digital copy of it.  Felt good to have it.     Lou ----- Original Message ----- From: Louise Read <LouiseRead@bigpond.com> To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [LIN] Colsterworth parish war memorial Hi Lou, I have had a look at the war memorial as suggested, and there are unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, no relatives that belong to me. I do have a question though, was it customary in the UK to report the locals who had been killed during war times in the newspapers? I know here in Australia there was always a list of those casualties and it was just a thought that if someone local had the time and inclination they could look through the local papers of the time and maybe identify some of these men and women. I would be more than willing to do this, if only I lived closer! Regards Louise Perth WA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Mills" <louis_mills@att.net> To: <eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:33 AM Subject: [LIN] Colsterworth parish war memorial I'm working my way thru the war memorials of four counties, always looking for some of the surnames that I and some of you have been seeking. Colsterworth parish has a number of people listed on the Roll of Honour in St. John's church and we don't know who they are. A lot of them are from WWII. Can you take a look and see if any of them are your rellies and let me know more about them. I'll let the webmaster of the site have your information, too. http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Lincolnshire/ColsterworthStJohn.html Thank you for any help. Lou ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LINCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LINCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Victor,     One must remember that War Memorials give the term "cast in stone" a new meaning. 1.  Many men (and women) just weren't listed.  Record-keeping wasn't perfect and some people were left off for petty reasons. 2.  Some warriors may never have lived in the parish, but their parents moved there later.  Easier to put your son on the local memorial than to try to deal with a parish 50 miles away.  We have a few people listed on two memorials. 3..Some men "disappeared".  Were they blown into a bloody mist, buried hastily, left in a river?  Who knows.  Perhaps they deserted.  Maybe they found a nice girl in Belgium and settled down. 4.  Some names were changed to protect someone.  We can't find some of the people listed.  Did they enlist under a step-father's name?  Did they have something to hide?  Did they use an older siblings name?  I sometimes think the enlistment office looked a young man up and down and said, "Yeah, we can find a uniform to fit him." 5.  Some men died on temporary assignment to other units, so the family may insist he was in the Royal Artillery when, in fact, he was a Signals man posted to a unit to help with communications.  Happens today, even. 6.  Some are listed because it was thought they died. but you might find them in a post-war census.  One of my relatives jumped ship from a Navy cruiser just days before the Battle of Coronel.  I suspect he is listed as one of those "lost" when the ship went down. 7.  So much was hand-written before the days of computers, and transcription errors crept in.  Of course, we never make mistrakes today. And I'm sure I've left a few things out.  Suffice it to say, the war memorials are a bit like the census.  Useful, but sometimes confusing.  I always check the Commonwealth War Graves database, but they have a lot of errors and omissions, too.  We do the best we can.     Lou ________________________________ From: Victor Markham <victor@markham.me.uk> To: eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [LIN] Colsterworth parish war memorial Hi Louise I imagine that the death locals will be reported in the papers but much depends on what information was available. My step brother's death, before I was born, was reported in the Hull Daily Mail. I have a copy of his death report. His ship was sunk by an Italian sub in NW Scotland in the second war. Come to think of it I have never seen his name on a war memorial in the Hull area but then I haven't looked. Since he was in the Merchant Navy it could have been on a memorial at St. Barnabas Church, which has been demolished. The Hull Daily Mail reported his memorial service there. On an another matter, which had nothing to do with family search, I searched some old newspapers in Brighton History Centre looking up details of women in the police in the First War. Here I came across loads of photos of men killed and these were on the front pages of the Brighton Herald. Since you are in Australia I would like to say the best war memorial I have ever come across was the Anzac Memorial in Canberra. It is huge though I don't recall any names on it but then I was not looking for any. Australia have other war memorials all better than any I have seen in England. The last time I went to Beverley archives I was looking at the minute book for Cottingham UDC. My grandfather, who was a councillor, proposed that they erect a war memorial. It was agreed and plans were drawn up for approval. These were then submitted to the council and were rejected as 'over elaborate' ! and the committee were asked to look into it again. The plans were re submitted without any changes and voted for and passed with 2 councillors voted against. I got all this information from the minute book and took photos of the pages. The war memorial is in Hallgate, Cottingham. Now that I know this I look at it every time I pass and remember my grandfather, Arthur Dixon. With the original rejections of plans I just wonder how many other councils rejected plans for war memorials in their area? Australia have good memorial even in Western Australia. I liked the one at Geralton HMAS Sydney Memorial. This poor war memorial in England is catching up as new ones have been erected over London, on the embankment and Constitution Hill and other places Victor

Hi Lou, I have had a look at the war memorial as suggested, and there are unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, no relatives that belong to me. I do have a question though, was it customary in the UK to report the locals who had been killed during war times in the newspapers? I know here in Australia there was always a list of those casualties and it was just a thought that if someone local had the time and inclination they could look through the local papers of the time and maybe identify some of these men and women. I would be more than willing to do this, if only I lived closer! Regards Louise Perth WA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Mills" <louis_mills@att.net> To: <eng-lincsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:33 AM Subject: [LIN] Colsterworth parish war memorial I'm working my way thru the war memorials of four counties, always looking for some of the surnames that I and some of you have been seeking. Colsterworth parish has a number of people listed on the Roll of Honour in St. John's church and we don't know who they are. A lot of them are from WWII. Can you take a look and see if any of them are your rellies and let me know more about them. I'll let the webmaster of the site have your information, too. http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Lincolnshire/ColsterworthStJohn.html Thank you for any help. Lou ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LINCSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message