I haven't been adding anything to the list as I've got 4 families from Preston area that I am slowly researching and have hit several brick walls with them in spite of having the surname indexes for all of the Preston censuses. Brick wall #1: John Eccles born about 1831- 1834 in Preston. Father: George. Mother's name is unknown according to John's death certificate. Haven't found his birth certificate yet! There were 7 families with George Eccles as their head living in Preston, England at the time of the 1841 Census of the United Kingdom. Only two of those families have children named John, one of whom appears to be be the correct age. This family was living on Back Leeming Street in Preston at the time of the Census. If this is the correct George Eccles family, John's Mother's name is Mary and he had at least 6 siblings. This George Eccles was working as a weaver at the time of the census. I have not been able to find them in the 1851 or 1861 census of Preston though John shows up with his wife Elizabeth in the 1871 census. Does anyone know how I can find a birth or baptismal certificate for 1831-1834 time frame? Brick Wall #2: John Wareing and Agnes Greenwood were married about 1861. Their oldest son Richard was born in 1862. We think that they were married at St. Mary's in Preston, but those church records have been lost. A third cousin from a branch of the Wareing family still in Preston has been researching this at the records center, but to no avail. If we could find Agnes' father's name, we might be able to link up with Greenwoods from the Baltimore area or track back to find her birth certificate from Longridge about 1841. Any thoughts on finding other records of their marriage? Brick Wall #3: John Wilkinson was born in Larbrech about 1825 according to the 1851 census. He was married in 1847 to Ellen Jackson. The marriage certificate does not list his father's name. The assumption is that the father is deceased. John was living with a tailor learning the trade in the 1841 census rather than with his family so I don't know what his father's or mother's names are. I have looked at the census of Larbrech in 1841 for Wilkinson families but can't glean any information from it. In the records of the 1841 Census of Preston, there is a John and Mathilda Wilkinson family living on Emmett Street (the street listed on his marriage certificate). He is 55 and she is 60 years old. It is not known if they are John Wilkinson's parents. The records of the baptisms for 1825 from Larbreck do not list John. Any thoughts on how to find his birth or baptismal certificate, since this is before the civil registration program began. Another factor with all of these folks is that they belonged to the Catholic church. Sometimes they seem to be more difficult to find! From sunny, but humid and soggy Key West, Florida! Pauline Guzek

Hi, Pauline, You wrote > Another factor with all of these folks is that they belonged to the Catholic > church. Sometimes they seem to be more difficult to find! Agreed, but the first port of call is a list of Catholic Registers. One has been published by the Society of Genealogists, but this refers us to a fuller book - Michael Gandy, "Catholic Missions and Registers 1700 - 1880" Vol. 5 North West England 2nd Ed. 1998 (ISBN 0 9528879 2 4). This second book lists all known Catholic registers in missions founded before 1880, including the registers that are still with the Parish Priest. > Brick wall #1: > > John Eccles born about 1831- 1834 in Preston. Father: George. Mother's name unknown > Does anyone know how I can find a birth or baptismal certificate for 1831-1834 > time frame? There was only one RC chapel (St. Wilfrid / St. Mary)in the town of Preston at this time, though there were many within about ten miles. The second chapel (St. Ignatius) was only opened in 1836. As you say elsewhere, one (?) of the Baptism and Marriages registers has been lost, but this is only for the period 1803 - 1813. All the other Registers are in the keeping of the Parish Priest at St. Wilfrid's (St. Mary's has been closed and the building demolished). However, these registers have been transcribed (it is probably not a literal transcript as mentioned under Brick Wall #3) and a copy of the Transcript is in the Lancashire Record Office (LRO) in Preston. Not very accessible in Florida, but perhaps someone can get to Preston for you. > Brick Wall #2: > > John Wareing and Agnes Greenwood were married about 1861. Their oldest son > Richard was born in 1862. We think that they were married at St. Mary's in > Preston, but those church records have been lost. A third cousin from a branch > of the Wareing family still in Preston has been researching this at the records > center, but to no avail. If we could find Agnes' father's name, we might be able > to link up with Greenwoods from the Baltimore area or track back to find her > birth certificate from Longridge about 1841. > > Any thoughts on finding other records of their marriage? The registers of St. Wilfrid / St. Mary have been explained above and the transcript is in the LRO. I am assuming that they were RC as there is an Anglican St. Mary Church on the east side of the town about half a mile from the town centre and between New Hall lane and Ribbleton Lane. If they married ca 1861 you should be able to find a reference in the General Register Office Indexes (GRO Index, St. Catherine's House Index) and this will probably be available through your local LDS FHC. If you find a reference, the full reference is needed to order a certificate from the National Office, but the volume and page numbers will be meaningless to the Preston Office. You should be able to obtain a civil Birth Certificate for Agnes GREENWOOD from the Preston Register Office. I think that is the office but if you write to them ask them to forward your request to the appropriate office if they do not have the records for Longridge. You will be able to check the Register Office details via www.genuki.org.uk/big/LAN > Brick Wall #3: > > John Wilkinson was born in Larbrech about 1825 according to the 1851 census. He > was married in 1847 to Ellen Jackson. The marriage certificate does not list his > father's name. The assumption is that the father is deceased. John was living > with a tailor learning the trade in the 1841 census rather than with his family > so I don't know what his father's or mother's names are. Denis suggested the possible churches in the area. The records for the early period for the Catholic mission at Great Eccleston have been published in 1913 by the Catholic Record Society and, I believe that they are available on film through the LDS system - I am NOT sure. However, I have a copy and there is an entry for a John WILKINSON that reads Die 7 Maii baptizavi Joannem WILKINSON pridie natam ex Elizabeth WILKINSON. Patrinus fuit Thomas BROWN, matrina Helena CLARKS. This translates approximately as On 7 May [1825] I baptised John WILKINSON born the day before from Elizabeth WILKINSON. God-father was Thomas BROWN, god-mother Helen CLARKS. The priest at this time was Henry PARKINSON. I am not saying this is YOUR John, you will have to sort that out. In this connection, there was an interesting and information reference on RootsWeb a few weeks ago DOCUMENTATION. "Plea for More Citation of Sources," by Scott Simpson. Links to related sources. http://va.genealogy.50megs.com/sources.htm This notes and the others Scott lists are well worth reading. Hope this helps Jim Lancaster (Bury, LAN, ENG) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline Guzek" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:27 PM Subject: Re: Reposting Preston names > I haven't been adding anything to the list as I've got 4 families from Preston > area that I am slowly researching and have hit several brick walls with them in > spite of having the surname indexes for all of the Preston censuses. > > Brick wall #1: > > John Eccles born about 1831- 1834 in Preston. Father: George. Mother's name is > unknown according to John's death certificate. Haven't found his birth > certificate yet! There were 7 families with George Eccles as their head living > in Preston, England at the time of the 1841 Census of the United Kingdom. Only > two of those families have children named John, one of whom appears to be be the > correct age. This family was living on Back Leeming Street in Preston at the > time of the Census. If this is the correct George Eccles family, John's Mother's > name is Mary and he had at least 6 siblings. This George Eccles was working as a > weaver at the time of the census. I have not been able to find them in the 1851 > or 1861 census of Preston though John shows up with his wife Elizabeth in the > 1871 census. > > Does anyone know how I can find a birth or baptismal certificate for 1831-1834 > time frame? > > Brick Wall #2: > > John Wareing and Agnes Greenwood were married about 1861. Their oldest son > Richard was born in 1862. We think that they were married at St. Mary's in > Preston, but those church records have been lost. A third cousin from a branch > of the Wareing family still in Preston has been researching this at the records > center, but to no avail. If we could find Agnes' father's name, we might be able > to link up with Greenwoods from the Baltimore area or track back to find her > birth certificate from Longridge about 1841. > > Any thoughts on finding other records of their marriage? > > Brick Wall #3: > > John Wilkinson was born in Larbrech about 1825 according to the 1851 census. He > was married in 1847 to Ellen Jackson. The marriage certificate does not list his > father's name. The assumption is that the father is deceased. John was living > with a tailor learning the trade in the 1841 census rather than with his family > so I don't know what his father's or mother's names are. I have looked at the > census of Larbrech in 1841 for Wilkinson families but can't glean any > information from it. In the records of the 1841 Census of Preston, there is a > John and Mathilda Wilkinson family living on Emmett Street (the street listed on > his marriage certificate). He is 55 and she is 60 years old. It is not known if > they are John Wilkinson's parents. The records of the baptisms for 1825 from > Larbreck do not list John. > > Any thoughts on how to find his birth or baptismal certificate, since this is > before the civil registration program began. > > Another factor with all of these folks is that they belonged to the Catholic > church. Sometimes they seem to be more difficult to find! > > > From sunny, but humid and soggy Key West, Florida! > > Pauline Guzek > > > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > > >