Judith, I have an Ellen Holand too but neither of yours appear to be fom my line. Best of luck to you. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: <JuRothwell@aol.com> To: <eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:42 AM Subject: [WIGAN] HOLLAND > Hi Kathleen, > My HOLLAND is Ellen Holland, dau of RALPH HOLLAND, (and possibly ELIZABETH > BARKER) who married NAPLOEON DIAMOND in WIGAN in 1887. There could be a > connection but I'm not as far back as you at the moment. I' ll be in touch > if I > find a link, unless you can already see one - ever optimistic! > Judith > Cambs. >> DIAMOND, DANIELS, ELLISON,SUTHERS, TARPEY,KELLY, HOLLAND,MCVAY(Sometimes >> MCVOY or MCVEIGH), MCCANN. > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > ~~~ Check your e-mail settings. List mail must be in PLAIN TEXT. ~~~ > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hi Kathleen, My HOLLAND is Ellen Holland, dau of RALPH HOLLAND, (and possibly ELIZABETH BARKER) who married NAPLOEON DIAMOND in WIGAN in 1887. There could be a connection but I'm not as far back as you at the moment. I' ll be in touch if I find a link, unless you can already see one - ever optimistic! Judith Cambs. > DIAMOND, DANIELS, ELLISON,SUTHERS, TARPEY,KELLY, HOLLAND,MCVAY(Sometimes > MCVOY or MCVEIGH), MCCANN.
With the list admin's permission <g>, . . . . Announcing a new UNSWORTH surname list: > A mailing list for the discussion and sharing of information regarding > the UNSWORTH surname and variations any where in the world, but > particularly in the United Kingdom. Information, instructions to subscribe, and links to the archives can be found at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/u/unsworth.html There are lots of UNSWORTHs in Lancashire. If you're linked to this name, please join the new list and tell us about your connections. Best wishes, Lynne
Hi again, I have found the names of Mellings owners-----Geoff and Laura--- of Plodder Lane Farnworth----i have found a piece of news about them in the---boltonnews in the archive --dated 2/11/2003 ---it mentions Laura Melling who died recently ,her friends sorting out her effects came across an old photo --showing a mile of books used to raise money in the war--however i can't get the page up as it has been altered and the photo moved --i can not work out how to get it on screen this may link to the person you found Lynda
Please has someone any information on this Robert COLLIER? All I know is that he was a policeman in Wigan around 1913/14 and was called up into the army. There is a photo of him in what we understand to be cadet uniform. He married in London when on leave. He did survive the war. There are so many Robert COLLIERs in that area and many on the medal lists so finding the right one without more clues is very hard. Is there somewhere I can find him in the police force? That might give me a birth date or parentsRita in West OZ
JUdith, I have a Jane Holland born in Upholland in 1839. She married Jonathan Simpkin in Wigan in 1863. Jonathan was born in Upholland in 1834. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: <JuRothwell@aol.com> To: <eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 6:42 AM Subject: [WIGAN] Roll Call > Re listing my WIGAN interests > > DIAMOND, DANIELS, ELLISON,SUTHERS, TARPEY,KELLY, HOLLAND,MCVAY(Sometimes > MCVOY or MCVEIGH), MCCANN. > > I'm off on holiday this week end for a week so will be unsubscribing > tomorrow evening but didn't want to miss the roll call! > Ever optimistic > Judith > Cambs. > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > ~~~ Check your e-mail settings. List mail must be in PLAIN TEXT. ~~~ > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hi Lynda, Thanks for the info. Being from the other side of the "pond", I didn't realize MELLING was a famous name for bread. As well as the HIGHAM/MELLING marriage, on one of the branches of my TALBOT tree, there's a Ralph TALBOT who married Sarah MELLING at Winwick in 1761. And there's also William PILKINGTON & Mary MELLING, married at Wigan in 1845, William being the son of Michael PILKINGTON & Rachel MITTON. I haven't seen any hint of a link to the "bread" Mellings. Karen
Dear Beth, Many thanks for this information. Strangely enough, William Finch's own son (Richard) ended up in Burnley after the First World War where he owned some houses which were rented (How did the son of a miner obtain enough money to be a small landlord?). Some useful thoughts here for future research. I've relied on the net and certificates etc more recently although I did once speak to an older family member and collected information before her death in the late 1970's. The family did travel a bit from the early 20th Century onwards but I suspect that prior to that they were in the Wigan area. This is the hypothesis to be tested ? Father Stuart -----Original Message----- From: eng-lan-wigan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-lan-wigan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Beth Merryweather Sent: 14 May 2007 21:00 To: eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com Subject: [WIGAN] Re FINCH in Wigan Dear Father Stuart Have you read the original PR films or just relied on the Directories and net etc? I have often found when reading the whole Parish films that the families who were prominent in Weddings and particularly Bapts (more of those to a family than a wedding!) fade out of the PRs as they pass from child-bearing years, so there can be perhaps a gap of several years when the name doesn't show until the next generation starts the cycle again. The other main point is that the move from one place to another with more work opportunities shows up through this disappearance from the Registers as the younger generations moved to the bigger towns and had their families there, occasionally a family may go back to have a first/another child Christened but often not. The older generation may have stayed and eventually died in the original village or township but the younger families will have had to move for better work opportunities. This movement away from Wigan to Burnley in the 1850s is very plain in my families, and they did not appear in Directories because they were too poor, working in cotton mills etc. Another point is that the women/daughters tend to disappear if they marry a man from another area or Parish as they then move to where he lives and works, and of course, have a name -change too, so although still part of their own family by blood and family ties, the children are no longer of that name, therefore harder to track. Even if they stay in the same Parish they can be overlooked unless you know of the marriage event. From my own experience, I suggest you look at surrounding bigger towns, to see if your Finch families seem to tie in at Census time, with this pattern. Burnley was a big draw for work, and wherever the cotton industry was strong. Good luck with your search. Beth " I hear that "Finch" is a popular name in the Wigan area but I never read about the family and the directory entries seem to indicate little "Finch" activity. Can anyone give me an idea why a name that seems very much from Wigan is so hard to see on either the net or other entries? Father Stuart " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ~~~ Check your e-mail settings. List mail must be in PLAIN TEXT. ~~~ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Dear Father Stuart Have you read the original PR films or just relied on the Directories and net etc? I have often found when reading the whole Parish films that the families who were prominent in Weddings and particularly Bapts (more of those to a family than a wedding!) fade out of the PRs as they pass from child-bearing years, so there can be perhaps a gap of several years when the name doesn't show until the next generation starts the cycle again. The other main point is that the move from one place to another with more work opportunities shows up through this disappearance from the Registers as the younger generations moved to the bigger towns and had their families there, occasionally a family may go back to have a first/another child Christened but often not. The older generation may have stayed and eventually died in the original village or township but the younger families will have had to move for better work opportunities. This movement away from Wigan to Burnley in the 1850s is very plain in my families, and they did not appear in Directories because they were too poor, working in cotton mills etc. Another point is that the women/daughters tend to disappear if they marry a man from another area or Parish as they then move to where he lives and works, and of course, have a name -change too, so although still part of their own family by blood and family ties, the children are no longer of that name, therefore harder to track. Even if they stay in the same Parish they can be overlooked unless you know of the marriage event. From my own experience, I suggest you look at surrounding bigger towns, to see if your Finch families seem to tie in at Census time, with this pattern. Burnley was a big draw for work, and wherever the cotton industry was strong. Good luck with your search. Beth " I hear that "Finch" is a popular name in the Wigan area but I never read about the family and the directory entries seem to indicate little "Finch" activity. Can anyone give me an idea why a name that seems very much from Wigan is so hard to see on either the net or other entries? Father Stuart "
Hello Paul andKaren, This is a long shot--but Melling is a famous name for bread.There used to be one of their bakeries in Queen st Farnworth ,my sister lived in the house next door to it. I am finding in my research that lots of people started out in Wigan and when the Bridgewater canals were being built lots of people followed it down to other places to make money-----could this have happened to Mellings,not sure of the spelling. Best Wishes Lynda
Hello Lance, I have only just found out we have Shaws ,so i will keep your message in case i find the others. Best wishes Lynda
Sorry Karen... I have no other information other than James Thomas Moss ( b. Wigan c 1869) was the son of James Moss ( b. Wigan c1819) and Ellen (nee? / b. Ireland c1827). You can find the family living at 3 Vauxhall Rd., Wigan in both the 1861 and 1871 census records. The 1861 record is RG9 / 2772. The 1871 record is RG10 / 3885. Good luck, Paul. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Fraser" <kmfraser@pacificcoast.net> To: <eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com> Sent: May 14, 2007 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [WIGAN] Roll Call - HIGHAM Surname > Hi Paul, > > It was when I hit my brick wall that I decided to search for clues by > researching branches linking to my PILKINGTONS but so far no luck. I'll > have > to try to get back another generation to see if Robert HIGHAM (my aunt's > ancestors) links to the tree of James HIGHAM & Alice CROFT. > > The only other information I have is on Alice ASCROFT, wife of John > HIGHAM. > I believe Alice was the daughter of Hugh ASCROFT & Ann TAYLOR who were > married in 1820. They had a son, Henry who might be mine, but I haven't > found any proof that he is. Other daughters of Hugh & Ann married a > BIRCHALL, SEDDON and HAYDOCK, all surnames that also appear in my tree. > > My Henry ASCROFT & Ellen DAVIES daughter, Elizabeth, married a Thomas MOSS > in 1879. > > If you have any other information on Thomas HIGHAM, sibblings of Rachel or > on James Thomas MOSS, I'd appreciate it. > > All these common surnames can make research so much fun <big grin>. > > All the best, > > Karen > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > ~~~ Check your e-mail settings. List mail must be in PLAIN TEXT. ~~~ > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Hi That was a great mail Beth re movement in Wigan- really is making me think. As far as Finch goes, my Elizabeth McMullen married a Job Finch in 1878 in Wigan. Here they are 1901- all born Wigan and living there. Job was by 1901 a ropemaker and an employer. If anyone is connected-I would love to hear about what became of this family, Elizabeth McMullen was the daughter of my g grandadWilliam McMullens brother John. NameAge Elizabeth Finch43 Elizabeth Finch19 Joab Finch42 Joab Finch5 John Finch20 Martha Finch14 Mary Finch9 months Nellie Finch9 Jane Longshaw18 Mary Mc Mullen62 Carol
Hi That was a great mail Beth re movement in Wigan- really is making me think. As far as Finch goes, my Elizabeth McMullen married a Job Finch in 1878 in Wigan. Here they are 1901- all born Wigan and living there. Job was by 1901 a ropemaker and an employer. If anyone is connected-I would love to hear about what became of this family, Elizabeth McMullen was the daughter of my g grandadWilliam McMullens brother John. NameAge Elizabeth Finch43 Elizabeth Finch19 Joab Finch42 Joab Finch5 John Finch20 Martha Finch14 Mary Finch9 months Nellie Finch9 Jane Longshaw18 Mary Mc Mullen62 Carol
Hello Karen, It's taken me two days now to answer your question of just how I fit in to the Higham family you outlined below. The Higham branch fits well on my all-in-one family tree but I have no direct relationship. Here's how it goes: My gt-grandmother Mary Ann McKay ( b. Wigan c1858) had a brother James McKay ( b. Wigan c1857) who married a Margaret Moss ( b. Wigan c1858). Margaret Moss' brother James Thomas Moss ( b. Wigan c1869) married Rachael Higham ( b. Wigan c1875). Rachael is the daughter of Thomas Higham ( b.Wigan 1846...as we see on your list below). Thomas Higham had married a Frances (nee ?). Thomas' parents as we know were James Higham and Alice Croft. Needless to say, none of the Highams have ever sent me a Christmas card. I appreciate your help in putting the pieces of this puzzle together. Best Regards, Paul Wyatt Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Fraser" <kmfraser@pacificcoast.net> To: <eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com> Sent: May 12, 2007 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [WIGAN] Roll Call - HIGHAM Surname > Hi Paul, > > I haven't found the link between my Highams and your branch but firmly > believe one exists. And here's what I have on yours. I've kept the outline > brief as I don't know what information you already have. > > James Higham & Alice Croft - marr. 1831 > .....Ellen b 1832 > .....John b 1840, marr. Alice Ascroft 1860 > ........John, Margaret, Nancy, William, Richard 1874, Henry 1876 & James > 1884 > .....William b 1842, marr. Elizabeth ? > ..........James 1869, marr. Rachel Parkinson 1888 > .....James b 1844, marr. Ann ? > ..........Richard 1868, Alice 1869, James 1874, John 1877, Alfred 1881 > .....Thomas 1846 > .....Richard 1848, marr. Jane ? > ..........Mary Ellen 1868, William 1783 d 1895, Alice Ann 1877, Annie > 1882, > Richard 1883 & James Richard 1884 > > James & Ann's son, Alfred, marr. Catherine ? > .....Ellen Ann, b 1896, marr. Ernest Gaskell > .....Lillian b 1897 marr. Edward Higham 1919 > ..........Alfred Thurston b 1923 & Ernest Derek b 1927 > .....Florence May b 1898 marr. Bert Rigby 1821 > > Richard & Jane's son, James Richard marr. Annie Bramwell 1906 > .....William Edward marr. Doris ? > ..........Marie Ann, Eric William & Clifford > .....Clifford Bramwell 1924 > .....Richard b 1883 marr. Martha Ashall 1913 > .....Leonard > .....Eric > .....Elsie > > I believe Margaret, daughter of John Higham & Alice Ascroft, married > Walter > Melling in 1899. > > If not related, my family definitely knew these Highams. My father, Thomas > Pilkington, was born at 8 Tichborne Street, Wigan in 1910. This was a > small > street off Vaughan Street which was off Greenough Street. It wasn't on the > 1892 map but when built bordered on the Old Sand Pits. Richard Thomas > lived > at 5 Tichborne Street, next door to my Pilkingtons in 1909. From the 1910 > Land Valuation Tax records, James Higham, painter, of Greenough Street > owned > the house at 8 Tichborne Street and Richard Higham of 122 Warrington Road, > Newton, owned the house at 5 Tichborne Street. This was John who married > Alice Ascroft and his brother Richard. > > Where do you fit in? What are some of your other surname interests? Might > give me a clue on if and how your Highams link to mine. If I have further > details that you don't have and would like, I'll pass them on. > > Karen > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > ~~~ Check your e-mail settings. List mail must be in PLAIN TEXT. ~~~ > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Hi Paul, It was when I hit my brick wall that I decided to search for clues by researching branches linking to my PILKINGTONS but so far no luck. I'll have to try to get back another generation to see if Robert HIGHAM (my aunt's ancestors) links to the tree of James HIGHAM & Alice CROFT. The only other information I have is on Alice ASCROFT, wife of John HIGHAM. I believe Alice was the daughter of Hugh ASCROFT & Ann TAYLOR who were married in 1820. They had a son, Henry who might be mine, but I haven't found any proof that he is. Other daughters of Hugh & Ann married a BIRCHALL, SEDDON and HAYDOCK, all surnames that also appear in my tree. My Henry ASCROFT & Ellen DAVIES daughter, Elizabeth, married a Thomas MOSS in 1879. If you have any other information on Thomas HIGHAM, sibblings of Rachel or on James Thomas MOSS, I'd appreciate it. All these common surnames can make research so much fun <big grin>. All the best, Karen
Hello Lynda- I won't say no but the only other Shaw relatives I know of are the Butchers, Rileys, and Underhills. Regards, Lance-Michigan USA -----Original Message----- From: eng-lan-wigan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-lan-wigan-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Artdeco3050@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 4:52 PM To: eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WIGAN] ENG-LAN-WIGAN Digest, Vol 2,Issue 75 ------------ For Lance Mitchell To Lance mitchell Would your Shaws be any relative to Howarths or Cartwrights-. Lynda * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ~~~ Check your e-mail settings. List mail must be in PLAIN TEXT. ~~~ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM
Dear Father Stuart: I don't know all the answers regarding this, but, when I do a search on Ancestry.com for FINCH on the 1851 British Census......there are many many FINCH entries. Are you looking for anything particular regarding Elizabeth GASKILL and William FINCH ? Would the 1861 Census entry be helpful ? or the 1871 entry, etc. etc. Barb, Ontario, Canada.
Hi Karen: Thanks for checking. The only other details I have about this family are that George Alfred Savage, Harriet's husband was a police constable, and that they had 2 childrenn, Edith b. 1886/1887 in Gorton/Garston and George jr. born 1890 in Stalmine. I will keep searching. Thanks again. Ann >From: "Karen Fraser" <kmfraser@pacificcoast.net> >Reply-To: eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com >To: <eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com> >Subject: Re: [WIGAN] Roll Call - PILKINGTON, etc. TALBOT,SAVAGE >Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 16:12:35 -0700 > >Hi Ann, > >My branch of the Talbots left Ashton sometime in the 1830s and went to >Wigan >and my cousin's branch went to Lowton. Unfortuantely, there's no Harriet >Talbot in either of these branches. > >I wouldn't be surprised though if the Talbots still in Ashton in the 1860s >and later were related. If you know who Harriet's grandparents were, or >when >you find that information, I might then be able to tie your branch into our >Talbots. > >Our tree goes back to the 1500s but I can't take any credit as my cousin >found me and sent me the tree. > >Good luck in your search. > >Karen > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > >~~~ Check your e-mail settings. List mail must be in PLAIN TEXT. ~~~ > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail is the next generation of MSN Hotmail. Its fast, simple, and safer than ever and best of all its still free. Try it today! www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA146
Dear Karen... you are a true angel. This is just a quick note to you and the list to say that I will mull over the info over the next week and get back to you. I truly appreciate your input... I did not have any of your information. I'll be in touch. Paul Wyatt & family Ajax, Ontario, Canada. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Fraser" <kmfraser@pacificcoast.net> To: <eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com> Sent: May 12, 2007 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [WIGAN] Roll Call - HIGHAM Surname > Hi Paul, > > I haven't found the link between my Highams and your branch but firmly > believe one exists. And here's what I have on yours. I've kept the outline > brief as I don't know what information you already have. > > James Higham & Alice Croft - marr. 1831 > .....Ellen b 1832 > .....John b 1840, marr. Alice Ascroft 1860 > ........John, Margaret, Nancy, William, Richard 1874, Henry 1876 & James > 1884 > .....William b 1842, marr. Elizabeth ? > ..........James 1869, marr. Rachel Parkinson 1888 > .....James b 1844, marr. Ann ? > ..........Richard 1868, Alice 1869, James 1874, John 1877, Alfred 1881 > .....Thomas 1846 > .....Richard 1848, marr. Jane ? > ..........Mary Ellen 1868, William 1783 d 1895, Alice Ann 1877, Annie > 1882, > Richard 1883 & James Richard 1884 > > James & Ann's son, Alfred, marr. Catherine ? > .....Ellen Ann, b 1896, marr. Ernest Gaskell > .....Lillian b 1897 marr. Edward Higham 1919 > ..........Alfred Thurston b 1923 & Ernest Derek b 1927 > .....Florence May b 1898 marr. Bert Rigby 1821 > > Richard & Jane's son, James Richard marr. Annie Bramwell 1906 > .....William Edward marr. Doris ? > ..........Marie Ann, Eric William & Clifford > .....Clifford Bramwell 1924 > .....Richard b 1883 marr. Martha Ashall 1913 > .....Leonard > .....Eric > .....Elsie > > I believe Margaret, daughter of John Higham & Alice Ascroft, married > Walter > Melling in 1899. > > If not related, my family definitely knew these Highams. My father, Thomas > Pilkington, was born at 8 Tichborne Street, Wigan in 1910. This was a > small > street off Vaughan Street which was off Greenough Street. It wasn't on the > 1892 map but when built bordered on the Old Sand Pits. Richard Thomas > lived > at 5 Tichborne Street, next door to my Pilkingtons in 1909. From the 1910 > Land Valuation Tax records, James Higham, painter, of Greenough Street > owned > the house at 8 Tichborne Street and Richard Higham of 122 Warrington Road, > Newton, owned the house at 5 Tichborne Street. This was John who married > Alice Ascroft and his brother Richard. > > Where do you fit in? What are some of your other surname interests? Might > give me a clue on if and how your Highams link to mine. If I have further > details that you don't have and would like, I'll pass them on. > > Karen > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > ~~~ Check your e-mail settings. List mail must be in PLAIN TEXT. ~~~ > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >