Hello Listers, I am searching for a death for EMILY McGUIRE who lived at Wigan prior to moving to BRINSCALL . I have found an entry for EMILY registered at CHORLEY, would this be the registry office for the area of Brinscall? Thank you Nancye n.abrooks@bigpond.com 15.12.07 10.am

19 December 1 pm to 2 pm - WIGAN HISTORY SHOP, "Bah Humbug! - Christmas in the Workhouse." Find out what it was like at Christmas for the poor people of Wigan in Victorian times. The History Shop, Library Street, Wigan. Booking essential - telephone 01942 828128. http://www.wlct.org/Leisure/Events/heritage.htm 27 January 1 pm to 3 pm - HISTORY TOUR OF HAIGH HALL, a guided tour of all 3 floors of the Grade II listed historical building. Haigh Hall, Country Park, Haigh, Wigan WN2 1PE. http://www.wlct.org/Leisure/Events/haigh.htm

Hi everyone, I am looking for the parents of Barbara M LEIGH who was born on 24 November 1913. I have found her on the freebmd, and it shows that her mother was a TREWHITT before marriage to a Mr LEIGH. Does anyone have any transcriptions on hand or would know where I could look for her birth record to enable me to find her parents names. Many thanks Jackie

Hi Eric Yes long time Eric!! We moved from Mozambique to Denmark and are now in Dubai. I've put my SHAW's on a back burner for a while. It wasnt' my question, and the St Paul's thing is I am transcribing the Baptisms for the Lancs Online Parish Clerk. Peter Wood (St. Peter) is the head honcho :O). And he's doing it from New Zealand!! It would be just up your street Eric. Have a look at the website, the more the merrier. http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ Best Regards Susan > Hi Susan,> How are you?> I missed your initial question, but I have the BMD's for St. Paul's,> Skelmersdale, if that is what you wanted.> BAPTISM 1817-1920> MARRIAGES 1859-1980> BURIALS 1822-1975 > Regards,> Eric

>I don't remember them coming around the streets with coal, probably my mum would. I remember the 'pop' man though :Op Hello Susan Sounds like I'm more your Mum's vintage than yours. The coalmen (from the Coop) came around with sacks of coal loaded on a flatbed wagon pulled by a shire horse. The coalmen themselves were generally blacker than colliers on their way home from a shift at the pit (I don't predate pithead baths, the first of which in Britain was opened at Gibfield Colliery in 1913, about half a mile from where I lived). As I remember, they wore a heavy leather back cover with brass-studded horizontal ribs so's they could hoist a hundredweight (half hundredweight?) sack of coal on their backs without too much damage. Then they'd march around to the coal shed at the back and upend it. I can still remember that distinctive sound of their clogs clomping past the kitchen window followed by the crush and clatter of the coal unloading. Peter Wood

Hi Peter, Yes I remember them. Just as you describe. They always seemed to deliver, round our way, on Washing Day. That was when all the housewives had their washing strung across the back street. They had to take their washing in, to let the coal wagon through. There was a lot of cursing and swearing about that. Yours, Bernie Davies, Ottawa, Canada. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Wood" <st.peter@paradise.net.nz> To: <eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [WIGAN] Coal Agents > >I don't remember them coming around the streets with coal, probably my > >mum > would. I remember the 'pop' man though :Op > > Hello Susan > Sounds like I'm more your Mum's vintage than yours. The coalmen (from the > Coop) came around with sacks of coal loaded on a flatbed wagon pulled by a > shire horse. The coalmen themselves were generally blacker than colliers > on > their way home from a shift at the pit (I don't predate pithead baths, the > first of which in Britain was opened at Gibfield Colliery in 1913, about > half a mile from where I lived). As I remember, they wore a heavy leather > back cover with brass-studded horizontal ribs so's they could hoist a > hundredweight (half hundredweight?) sack of coal on their backs without > too > much damage. Then they'd march around to the coal shed at the back and > upend it. I can still remember that distinctive sound of their clogs > clomping past the kitchen window followed by the crush and clatter of the > coal unloading. > > Peter Wood > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Each poster owns his/her own post. Before forwarding someone else's > message to another list, be sure to receive permission from the author. > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Susan, How are you? I missed your initial question, but I have the BMD's for St. Paul's, Skelmersdale, if that is what you wanted. BAPTISM 1817-1920 MARRIAGES 1859-1980 BURIALS 1822-1975 Regards, Eric -----Original Message----- From: eng-lan-wigan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-lan-wigan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Susan Davies Sent: 03 December 2007 14:49 To: eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WIGAN] Coal Agents I've now got a little more insight into my Ancestor, still not found where he's buried though. We think his 2nd wife might have thrown him in the river! I don't remember them coming around the streets with coal, probably my mum would. I remember the 'pop' man though :Op Glad you've found out some good information Ged, Peter is excellent. He always knows the answers. Regards Susan in Dubaips I'm still transcribing Skem Peter :O)> Coal mainly! An agent is someone who acts on behalf of the owner of> property/goods/commodoties to sell/purchase/negotiate deals etc (think> estate agent). So, a coal agent was a middleman, presumably contracted by> coal owners (proprietors) to sell their coal. He would not have been the> man with a horse and cart going around the streets selling coal to> customers, but would have been involved in wholesaling, and possibly other> dealings for the colliery company not necessarily directly involving the> black diamonds themselves.> > Peter Wood ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Each poster owns his/her own post. Before forwarding someone else's message to another list, be sure to receive permission from the author. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1165 - Release Date: 02/12/2007 20:34 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1165 - Release Date: 02/12/2007 20:34

I've now got a little more insight into my Ancestor, still not found where he's buried though. We think his 2nd wife might have thrown him in the river! I don't remember them coming around the streets with coal, probably my mum would. I remember the 'pop' man though :Op Glad you've found out some good information Ged, Peter is excellent. He always knows the answers. Regards Susan in Dubaips I'm still transcribing Skem Peter :O)> Coal mainly! An agent is someone who acts on behalf of the owner of> property/goods/commodoties to sell/purchase/negotiate deals etc (think> estate agent). So, a coal agent was a middleman, presumably contracted by> coal owners (proprietors) to sell their coal. He would not have been the> man with a horse and cart going around the streets selling coal to> customers, but would have been involved in wholesaling, and possibly other> dealings for the colliery company not necessarily directly involving the> black diamonds themselves.> > Peter Wood

>So now we know what coal proprietors were, but I still don't know what a coal agent was (although they always started out as bookkeepers - but what was in their books?). Coal mainly! An agent is someone who acts on behalf of the owner of property/goods/commodoties to sell/purchase/negotiate deals etc (think estate agent). So, a coal agent was a middleman, presumably contracted by coal owners (proprietors) to sell their coal. He would not have been the man with a horse and cart going around the streets selling coal to customers, but would have been involved in wholesaling, and possibly other dealings for the colliery company not necessarily directly involving the black diamonds themselves. Peter Wood

Hi Allan and Susan Allan, seems that your Abraham Ackers had the same background as my Rigbys - farmers, but investing in coal mines, and (like yours, Susan) one of mine also ran a pub at the same time. And we think we lead busy lives! So now we know what coal proprietors were, but I still don't know what a coal agent was (although they always started out as bookkeepers - but what was in their books?). Many thanks to all who've contributed. Ged

Hi Karen, There is also a book " Memories of an Atherton Pitman " Published by Leigh Local History Society, Publication No 18 1990. These are the memories of the Late Arthur Griffiths. There are some very interesting and amusing and heartwarming stories. I think it is available from Leigh Library. Yours, Bernie Davies, Ottawa, Canada. ----- Original Message ---- From: "Karen Fraser" <kmfraser@pacificcoast.net> To: <eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [WIGAN] Lancashire Coal Mines > Hi Norman, Allan, Ged, et al, > > I purchased a book at a Wigan bookstore titled, Children In The Mines, The > Children's Employment Commission of 1842, ISBN 0 9516843 6 1, published by > Picks Publishing, Ashton-in-Makerfield in conjunction with The Lancashire > Mining Museum, Salford & City of Salford. It's a very sad but interesting > read. It not only names the employees interviewed, age, etc. but provides > a > vivid picture of life in the mines and, in the Appendix, it names the > works, > coal proprietors and the number of adults, young persons (13-18) and > children (under 13) working in each mine. > > For Bickershaw, the Appendix lists Abram, Ackers and Co., near Wigan, age > 21 > and up, 105 male/25 female; Age 13-18, 31 male/23 female; under 13, 19 > male/11 female. > > There's also a publication, Weep, Mothers, Weep, The Wood Pit Explosion, > Haydock, 1878. It can be found on LDS Film No. 576334. It provides a list > of > the 189 victims, including age, occupation and other details about the > individuals. > > One other item I copied is titled, Haigh Collieries, Wigan Coal & Iron > Company Limited, Wigan Coal Corporation, Fatal Accidents 1836-1947. > Unfortunately, I can't find any notes on where I found this but am quite > certain it was in a publication at the LDS Library (film/book?), Chapter > Nine. It includes the names of individuals, age and a brief description of > how they died. There are 13 pages covering Haigh Collieries, 1836-1869; > Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., 1870-1929 & Wigan Coal Corporation, 1930-1943. > > Hope this information will be of some value. > > Karen Fraser > Nanaimo, BC, Canada > > > > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > Each poster owns his/her own post. Before forwarding someone else's > message to another list, be sure to receive permission from the author. > > ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Karen, Thanks for the information. I have now purchased my copy of "Children in the Mines" via Amazon. Other useful books I enjoy on coal mines are: The Industrial Railways of the Wigan Coal Field, parts 1 and 2, by Townley, Smith and Peden, Runpast Publishing Allan Finland I purchased a book at a Wigan bookstore titled, Children In The Mines, The Children's Employment Commission of 1842, ISBN 0 9516843 6 1, published by Picks Publishing, Ashton-in-Makerfield in conjunction with The Lancashire Mining Museum, Salford & City of Salford. It's a very sad but interesting read. It not only names the employees interviewed, age, etc. but provides a vivid picture of life in the mines and, in the Appendix, it names the works, coal proprietors and the number of adults, young persons (13-18) and children (under 13) working in each mine. For Bickershaw, the Appendix lists Abram, Ackers and Co., near Wigan, age 21 and up, 105 male/25 female; Age 13-18, 31 male/23 female; under 13, 19 male/11 female. There's also a publication, Weep, Mothers, Weep, The Wood Pit Explosion, Haydock, 1878. It can be found on LDS Film No. 576334. It provides a list of the 189 victims, including age, occupation and other details about the individuals. One other item I copied is titled, Haigh Collieries, Wigan Coal & Iron Company Limited, Wigan Coal Corporation, Fatal Accidents 1836-1947. Unfortunately, I can't find any notes on where I found this but am quite certain it was in a publication at the LDS Library (film/book?), Chapter Nine. It includes the names of individuals, age and a brief description of how they died. There are 13 pages covering Haigh Collieries, 1836-1869; Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., 1870-1929 & Wigan Coal Corporation, 1930-1943. Hope this information will be of some value. Karen Fraser Nanaimo, BC, Canada -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 160 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Karen The book you refer to is: Anderson, Donald & France, A.A. (1994) Wigan Coal & Iron. Published by Smiths Books (Wigan) Ltd. 240pp. ISBN 0951068075 There are a large number of books dealing with coal mining, but others which deal specifically with events and people on the Wigan area of the South Lancashire Coalfield include: Davies, Alan & Hudson, Len (2000). The Wigan Coalfield. Tempus Publishing Ltd, Stroud. 128pp. ISBN 075241724X. Davies, Alan (2006). The pit brow women of the Wigan Coalfield. Tempus Publishing Ltd, Stroud. 127pp. ISBN 075243912X. Hannavy, John & Lewis, Roy (1983) The Maypole, diary of a colliery disaster. Published by Wigantech Publications, Wigan. ISBN 0950028096. Anderson, Donald (1986). Blundell's Collieries 1776-1966. Published in Wigan [England]: Wigan Printing. 150pp. ISBN 0951070312. The sheer scale of the British mining industry makes it difficult to find information about individual workers, who often moved from pit to pit. Here are some figures of persons employed (both above and below ground) over the years [from Bryan, Sir Andrew (1975) The evolution of health and safety in mines. Ashire Publishing Ltd. ISBN 0950438707]. 1853-1862 260,000 1863-1872 341,000 1873-1882 503,000 1883-1892 571,000 1893-1902 742,000 1903-1912 958,000 1913-1922 1,086,000 After 1922 the numbers dwindled steadily. Peter Wood

Thank you for the information, I would never have guessed. Does anyone know if there are records of the employees in any of the pits around Wigan? Best wishes Norman Sharples Interested in SHARPLES, CARLIN, BALDWIN and CUSANI in the Wigan area -----Original Message----- From: eng-lan-wigan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-lan-wigan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Allan Scotson Sent: 29 November 2007 07:19 To: eng-lan-wigan@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [WIGAN] Coal Agents Hi Ged, I too have coal propietor in the 1851 census Bickershaw Lane, Abraham Ackers Head, 54 years, Coal propietor. Land owner (in firm of 4). Empl 179 men. Farming 120 acres. Emp. 5 farm labourers, b.Rainhill He was a joint owner of Bickershaw Colliery, Abram. I understand there were also some Rigbys involved in that colliery. Allan Finland Does anybody know exactly what a 'coal agent' was/did around Wigan in the 1840s and 50s. Sometimes it's even just 'agent' and in later years it becomes 'coal proprietor'. I don't think it's a coal merchant, so what is it? Could it be somebody who employs workers for the mines? Ged -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 157 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ Each poster owns his/her own post. Before forwarding someone else's message to another list, be sure to receive permission from the author. ~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LAN-WIGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ged, I too have coal propietor in the 1851 census Bickershaw Lane, Abraham Ackers Head, 54 years, Coal propietor. Land owner (in firm of 4). Empl 179 men. Farming 120 acres. Emp. 5 farm labourers, b.Rainhill He was a joint owner of Bickershaw Colliery, Abram. I understand there were also some Rigbys involved in that colliery. Allan Finland Does anybody know exactly what a 'coal agent' was/did around Wigan in the 1840s and 50s. Sometimes it's even just 'agent' and in later years it becomes 'coal proprietor'. I don't think it's a coal merchant, so what is it? Could it be somebody who employs workers for the mines? Ged -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 157 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Hi Ged I have an Ancestor in Parr, on his daughter's marriage cert. he is listed as a 'Coal Proprietor' With further research we found he was a Coal Mine OWNER! He owned the small mine of Redgate Colliery, Parr. He also was the publican near the coal mine which is still there, the Princess Royal. He seems to have had both busnesses running at once. The Coal mine didn't last long, we understand there was an accident and it closes shortly before his death. I always thought it was a coal merchant but 'Proprietor' means the owner of a business. This is according to www.askoxford.com Would love to know your thoughts on this. Best Regards Susan in Dubai> Does anybody know exactly what a 'coal agent' was/did around Wigan in the > 1840s and 50s. Sometimes it's even just 'agent' and in later years it > becomes 'coal proprietor'. I don't think it's a coal merchant, so what is > it? Could it be somebody who employs workers for the mines?> > Ged

Hi Norman, Allan, Ged, et al, I purchased a book at a Wigan bookstore titled, Children In The Mines, The Children's Employment Commission of 1842, ISBN 0 9516843 6 1, published by Picks Publishing, Ashton-in-Makerfield in conjunction with The Lancashire Mining Museum, Salford & City of Salford. It's a very sad but interesting read. It not only names the employees interviewed, age, etc. but provides a vivid picture of life in the mines and, in the Appendix, it names the works, coal proprietors and the number of adults, young persons (13-18) and children (under 13) working in each mine. For Bickershaw, the Appendix lists Abram, Ackers and Co., near Wigan, age 21 and up, 105 male/25 female; Age 13-18, 31 male/23 female; under 13, 19 male/11 female. There's also a publication, Weep, Mothers, Weep, The Wood Pit Explosion, Haydock, 1878. It can be found on LDS Film No. 576334. It provides a list of the 189 victims, including age, occupation and other details about the individuals. One other item I copied is titled, Haigh Collieries, Wigan Coal & Iron Company Limited, Wigan Coal Corporation, Fatal Accidents 1836-1947. Unfortunately, I can't find any notes on where I found this but am quite certain it was in a publication at the LDS Library (film/book?), Chapter Nine. It includes the names of individuals, age and a brief description of how they died. There are 13 pages covering Haigh Collieries, 1836-1869; Wigan Coal & Iron Co. Ltd., 1870-1929 & Wigan Coal Corporation, 1930-1943. Hope this information will be of some value. Karen Fraser Nanaimo, BC, Canada

Hello List Does anybody know exactly what a 'coal agent' was/did around Wigan in the 1840s and 50s. Sometimes it's even just 'agent' and in later years it becomes 'coal proprietor'. I don't think it's a coal merchant, so what is it? Could it be somebody who employs workers for the mines? Ged

Hello List, I am a member of many list but this is my first to yours, I am searching for an Elizabeth possible with a surname Thompson, her date of birth I have from the 1881 & 1891 census is 1855/1857 Wigan, her husband's name was an Arthur ( William ? ) Maden/Maiden sorry, but the surname had changed from Maden in 1881 to Maiden in 1891. as far as I can tell by the 1881 census their first child was ( Arthur ) William born 1874 York, Yorkshire. Elizabeth 1876 Ashby Z, Leicestershire. Robert ( Henry ) c1881 Rutland and Caroline 1881 Leicestershire. In the 1881 census they were living in Leicestershire and in 1891 they were living in Coity, Bridgend, Glamorgan, S. Wales. In 1893 Arthur died and Elizabeth remarried an Irish man Patrick Clark and her father is listed as William Thompson a Farm Labourer. I have had trouble finding this family as I can not find them on the Freebmd site and apart from the mother they are missing from the 1901 census. Is it possible if anyone can help or offer advice on this elusive family. Thank you so much. Rhiannon

Hi, Just registering my interest. I'm, looking for Wilsons from Billinge Higher End, and before that from Orrell, in the late eighteenth century - especially a Richard Wilson and his wife Betty. Antony Mugford (mother nee Wilson) . No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.7/1151 - Release Date: 25/11/2007 16:24