Careful here. In the realm of written work, Works PUBLISHED more than 70 years ago may be out of copyright, but newly published work, even if written that long ago, only enters copyright domain once it's been published. So a photo from that long ago, by analogy, if only now entering the public domain, would - if the publisher so declares - commence copyright from the year of first publication. With written works, the death of the author is the point from which copyright years are counted. Stan -----Original Message----- From: eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Pritchett Sent: 26 February 2007 00:33 To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com Subject: [LAN-WARR] copyright When You Don't Need Permission You don't need permission to photograph a work that is not protected by copyright (in "the public domain"). Works fall into the public domain for several reasons, one of which is expiration of the copyright term. In 1997, works created before January 1, 1922 are in the public domain. Also, works created by federal government officers and employees as part of their official duties are not protected by copyright. (This rule does not apply to works created by state or local government officers and employees). So, that is the date for what is in the public domain. Sharon Newton Pritchett >From: Alan Bennett <alan_bennett@email.com> >Reply-To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com >To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [LAN-WARR] Photobucket - link >Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:39:25 +0000 > >The photos are fantastic and it has given me a slight issue that we >need to resolve. > >What are we going to say about the copyright of the photos? > >Do we treat them as public domain so that we can all use them in our >family tree reports/web-sites as long as they aren't for commercial >purposes. > >What think you all? > >Alan >** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** >** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier >searching of the archives ** >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.a spx?icid=HMFebtagline ** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** ** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier searching of the archives ** ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Stan, I am in the US. I understand most countries do have copyright laws. I don't really know if they are identical to ours, or simply similar. I haven't studied the international agreements. In the US, it is 75 years to enter the public domain. The attorney I quoted indicated it was 75 years from date of creation. That attorney was answering questions for creative people, not publishers. The formal proceedure of the publisher who has purchased the rights sending two copies of the publication to the Library of Congress ensures copyright to the publisher, and that is a different issue. That countdown begins at the time of publication, and usually the rights belong to the publisher, not the author or artist, unless the author or artist has a clause in the contract to retain rights themselves, which I promise is not the usual contract with a publisher. A publisher only has rights if they have been purchased by the publishing corporation. Anyone can publish something that is in the public domain. My understanding is that if a publisher publishes something in the public domain, the work remains in the public domain whether or not it has previously been published. But that isn't an issue I dealt with in the course of my professional life, so you might want to check more closely. But we are talking about pictures which I suspect were published in Great Britain, if they have been published at all, and nothing about them is going to attract significant attention, as I see it. I'm guessing that most of the pictures that were not taken by the people on the list were collected from sources that published them in public outlets. If you are going to fuss about getting copyright clearance, you are going to have to sort them into those that were published before Feb 1932, which would be in the public domain, and those published afterward, for which permission would have to be sought. Those that have never been published would need to be sorted in to those created before 1932 and those afterward, I presume, and gain permission for the use of the latter. Since I lack professional experience with the copyrights of unpublished works, I am a little sketchy on this last part, but that is my best guess. Which brings up something that was on my mind: How about a little more information on the pictures than just the name of the item being photographed? The date the picture was taken, even if it can only be approximated or given a range, the photographer's name if possible, and the source the picture was published in, if it was published. And a statement regarding copyright permission would be appropriate. I don't suppose this information will be available for all the pictures, but it would be nice if it were included when it is. Frankly, I can't imagine that many people would care much about our using their work in such a small publication as family historians usually produce. It isn't like they are undercutting publishers or record labels a la China or napster. From what I've seen family history publications don't make a profit. But it never hurts to be as careful as we reasonably can be, and anyone who has considerable resources is always wise to protect themselves from opportunists. I'm afraid if you want a definitive answer, you will have to consult someone who knows more than I do, perhaps an attorney. I can't see this being much of an issue in reality unless some of these pictures are coming from fairly significant sources. I don't know how far you want to pursue this, but good luck with all this legal muck. Sharon Newton Pritchett >From: "Stan Smith" <stan.smith1@ntlworld.com> >Reply-To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com >To: <eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com> >Subject: Re: [LAN-WARR] copyright >Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 02:20:19 -0000 > >Careful here. In the realm of written work, Works PUBLISHED more than 70 >years ago may be out of copyright, but newly published work, even if >written >that long ago, only enters copyright domain once it's been published. So a >photo from that long ago, by analogy, if only now entering the public >domain, would - if the publisher so declares - commence copyright from the >year of first publication. With written works, the death of the author is >the point from which copyright years are counted. > >Stan > >-----Original Message----- >From: eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com >[mailto:eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sharon >Pritchett >Sent: 26 February 2007 00:33 >To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com >Subject: [LAN-WARR] copyright > > > >When You Don't Need Permission >You don't need permission to photograph a work that is not protected by >copyright (in "the public domain"). Works fall into the public domain for >several reasons, one of which is expiration of the copyright term. In 1997, >works created before January 1, 1922 are in the public domain. Also, works >created by federal government officers and employees as part of their >official duties are not protected by copyright. (This rule does not apply >to > >works created by state or local government officers and employees). > >So, that is the date for what is in the public domain. >Sharon Newton Pritchett > > > >From: Alan Bennett <alan_bennett@email.com> > >Reply-To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com > >To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [LAN-WARR] Photobucket - link > >Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:39:25 +0000 > > > >The photos are fantastic and it has given me a slight issue that we > >need to resolve. > > > >What are we going to say about the copyright of the photos? > > > >Do we treat them as public domain so that we can all use them in our > >family tree reports/web-sites as long as they aren't for commercial > >purposes. > > > >What think you all? > > > >Alan > >** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** > >** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier > >searching of the archives ** > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without > > >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >_________________________________________________________________ >With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few >simple tips. >http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.a >spx?icid=HMFebtagline > >** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** >** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier >searching of the archives ** >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** > >** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier >searching of the archives ** >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Don’t miss your chance to WIN 10 hours of private jet travel from Microsoft® Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0540002499mrt/direct/01/