With reference to you saying that The General Wolfe pub has been demolished, I think you may be wrong with this information, The General Wolfe frontage building still stands although the back of it has been modernised into very nice apartments. I was a barmaid at the pub for nearly 20 years in 1970's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Smith" <stan.smith1@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [LAN-WARR] Warrington Pubs of 1920 > The black-and-white timbered buildings on Church St, Cromwell's 'Tudor > Cottages', where my grandfather Isaac had a hardware and cycle shop from > about 1916 until the 1930s, still stand. Cromwell is reputed to have > stayed > 'in or near' the site in 1648, during his campaign to defeat the > Presbyterian Scots who had sprung to the defence of the Anglo-Catholic > Charles I. He probably stayed on the site of the General Wolfe pub next > door. When I was a kid this was a fine old Victorian pub with a coaching > yard, so presumably founded on an even older site, with a little shop on > its > corner, run by Mr Lomax, sellnig ice cream, etc, right opposite the Tudor > Cottages. This corner shop, built into the wall of the General Wolfe, > showed > signs of being much older, possibly also 16th-17th century. Both pub and > shop are now demolished and replaced with undistinguished modern > buildings, > though there is a property just like it across the road and further > towards > the town centre, built into the corner of - if I remember correctly, > another > old pub, the Marquis of Granby. The shop was on the corner of what we knew > as 'Jackson's opening' or 'entry', as Jackson's pawn shopohad been on the > opposite side of the entry. That tiny shop was a cobbler's when I was a > kid, > and seems to have survived because of its attachment to the grander > building. It was rather like the single room, door open ot the street > shops > for crafts that you still ifnd in Asian and Middle Eastern towns. > > Cromwell is reputed to have defeated the Scots near Warrington Bridge (the > defeated soldiers were paraded along what thereafter came to be called > Scotland Road), which is why his statue was placed at Bridge Foot, outside > Priestley's Academy. The statue was relocated, along with the Academy, as > a > result of road-widening for the new bridge in the 70s or 80s, so was no > longer visible as being on Bridge Street when the IRA planted their bombs > in > the 1990s. It's my theory that they had heard there was a statue of > Cromwell > at one end of Bridge St, looked for it and failed to find it, so left > their > bombs not near the Bridge Foot end of the street but at the top end, at > Market Gate. Two young boys were killed in the bombing. My own son and > his > son had stood near the same spot the day before. > > There was a kerfuffle on the town council when the statue was offered to > them by the Nonconformist Councillor Frederick Monks, in 1899, the > tercentary of Cromwell's birth, and it was alleged to be an 'anti-Irish' > move. It probably was, but it's a fine statue, and is used as the icon of > the Cromwell Society on their website. It has its own chequered history, > apparently giving offence to Queen Victoria and leading her to spurn > Warrington at an earlier date (I think the statue was originally made in > 1865 or thereabouts, and was intended for placing outside the gates of the > Town Hall in Bank Park). > > We always called the church the Parish Church, too, because it was; but > the > Parish Church of St Elphins was its official name. > > Stan Smith > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maureen > Sent: 24 February 2007 00:01 > To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LAN-WARR] Warrington Pubs of 1920 > > > Hi, Many thanks to Stan for the information on the Ring a bells. I have > a > vague memory of the Pub and the church alongside. Did not know as St > Elphins but as Warrington Parish church...Also remember some small white > painted shops in Church Street - on the opposite side of the street to the > Church - one very small general shop was run by a lady called IDDON - I > went > to school with her daughter Jean. I imagine all these old buildings will > have gone. Last time I was in Warrington (1984) I had difficulty finding > my way around - and was surprised to see thet "Oliver Cromwell" had been > moved from his stance opposite the Packet House in Bridge Street. Thank > you > again for the information. Best regards Maureen near Brisbane where we > have the Q.E.11 in port. > > --------------------------------- > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your > question on Yahoo! Answers. > ** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** > ** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier > searching of the archives ** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** > ** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier > searching of the archives ** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think what I said is the pub had been replaced by new buildings. There is still a frontage but it's not the same as in the 1950s, but is new brick, and is housing property. It bears no resemblance to the pub as it was in the 1950s. I don't think the coaching yard has survived at the back, there was a wooden gate (with an inset gate for people) off Eldon St, into a large open and paved space, the old coaching yard, and then a little annexe extending out from the pub itself, with glass pannelled walls for visibility, where children could sit without being compromised by the boozing. The frontage on Church St is definitely not the same ,and the little shop of Mr Lomax's on the corner of Eldon St, which even we could see as kids was slummy then, though now it wd be a historical treasure, has certainly disappeared. There was also, as I recall, a large front door onto Church St for the pub. I have a photo somewhere from the 1890s, with lots of men with moustaches and cloth caps standing outside this front door, some kind of fishnig club or similar, I think. I must try to dig it out from my boxes and files and scan it for colleagues... Stan -----Original Message----- From: eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Syl Walsh Sent: 25 February 2007 18:24 To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LAN-WARR] [SPAM] Re: Warrington Pubs of 1920 With reference to you saying that The General Wolfe pub has been demolished, I think you may be wrong with this information, The General Wolfe frontage building still stands although the back of it has been modernised into very nice apartments. I was a barmaid at the pub for nearly 20 years in 1970's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Smith" <stan.smith1@ntlworld.com> To: <eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: [SPAM] Re: [LAN-WARR] Warrington Pubs of 1920 > The black-and-white timbered buildings on Church St, Cromwell's 'Tudor > Cottages', where my grandfather Isaac had a hardware and cycle shop > from about 1916 until the 1930s, still stand. Cromwell is reputed to > have stayed 'in or near' the site in 1648, during his campaign to > defeat the Presbyterian Scots who had sprung to the defence of the > Anglo-Catholic Charles I. He probably stayed on the site of the > General Wolfe pub next door. When I was a kid this was a fine old > Victorian pub with a coaching yard, so presumably founded on an even > older site, with a little shop on its > corner, run by Mr Lomax, sellnig ice cream, etc, right opposite the Tudor > Cottages. This corner shop, built into the wall of the General Wolfe, > showed > signs of being much older, possibly also 16th-17th century. Both pub and > shop are now demolished and replaced with undistinguished modern > buildings, > though there is a property just like it across the road and further > towards > the town centre, built into the corner of - if I remember correctly, > another > old pub, the Marquis of Granby. The shop was on the corner of what we knew > as 'Jackson's opening' or 'entry', as Jackson's pawn shopohad been on the > opposite side of the entry. That tiny shop was a cobbler's when I was a > kid, > and seems to have survived because of its attachment to the grander > building. It was rather like the single room, door open ot the street > shops > for crafts that you still ifnd in Asian and Middle Eastern towns. > > Cromwell is reputed to have defeated the Scots near Warrington Bridge > (the defeated soldiers were paraded along what thereafter came to be > called Scotland Road), which is why his statue was placed at Bridge > Foot, outside Priestley's Academy. The statue was relocated, along > with the Academy, as a result of road-widening for the new bridge in > the 70s or 80s, so was no longer visible as being on Bridge Street > when the IRA planted their bombs in > the 1990s. It's my theory that they had heard there was a statue of > Cromwell > at one end of Bridge St, looked for it and failed to find it, so left > their > bombs not near the Bridge Foot end of the street but at the top end, at > Market Gate. Two young boys were killed in the bombing. My own son and > his > son had stood near the same spot the day before. > > There was a kerfuffle on the town council when the statue was offered > to them by the Nonconformist Councillor Frederick Monks, in 1899, the > tercentary of Cromwell's birth, and it was alleged to be an > 'anti-Irish' move. It probably was, but it's a fine statue, and is > used as the icon of the Cromwell Society on their website. It has its > own chequered history, apparently giving offence to Queen Victoria and > leading her to spurn Warrington at an earlier date (I think the statue > was originally made in 1865 or thereabouts, and was intended for > placing outside the gates of the Town Hall in Bank Park). > > We always called the church the Parish Church, too, because it was; > but > the > Parish Church of St Elphins was its official name. > > Stan Smith > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:eng-lan-warrington-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maureen > Sent: 24 February 2007 00:01 > To: eng-lan-warrington@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LAN-WARR] Warrington Pubs of 1920 > > > Hi, Many thanks to Stan for the information on the Ring a bells. I > have > a > vague memory of the Pub and the church alongside. Did not know as St > Elphins but as Warrington Parish church...Also remember some small white > painted shops in Church Street - on the opposite side of the street to the > Church - one very small general shop was run by a lady called IDDON - I > went > to school with her daughter Jean. I imagine all these old buildings will > have gone. Last time I was in Warrington (1984) I had difficulty finding > my way around - and was surprised to see thet "Oliver Cromwell" had been > moved from his stance opposite the Packet House in Bridge Street. Thank > you > again for the information. Best regards Maureen near Brisbane where we > have the Q.E.11 in port. > > --------------------------------- > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your > question on Yahoo! Answers. > ** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** > ** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier > searching of the archives ** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** > ** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier > searching of the archives ** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ** PLEASE CHANGE YOUR SUBJECT HEADING WHEN E-MAILING THE LIST ** ** PLEASE REMOVE "signatures" from your e-mails to facilitate easier searching of the archives ** ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LAN-WARRINGTON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message