Dear Sylvia (& Laura V, other post), Thanks for your responses on MU / MCFC. My grandfather most certainly saw some of the matches of the Bury FC. I saw on a Manchester Online link that Bury FC had some cup, or championship titles in 1900 & 1903. In the 1970's and before he was a Man City fan. Though we are States-side, our family lore is that my grandfather Sydney used to go to Football matches where up to 100,000 were in attendance. Restrooms (W.C.'s) were a real issue between 1900 - 1914 so the women would sew rubber bags into the trousers; Obviously the lads drank some quantities of beer in those days too. It was a chore to make your way through the standing room only crowds. I wonder if that is the origin of the term "getting pissed"? Forever Blue and occassionaly pissed, Bill