Doreen, Thanks very much for that. I was just checking Little Green , Chadderton and could not find them in my index of Households! Just saved me a good bit of work. Malcolm Firth In Chadderton E Mail [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "doreen EL-AHWANY" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] searching for Stansfields etc. > Kathy, > Is this your Abraham on the 1841 census? Wife Jane not Sarah. > This is the only Stansfield in Tonge according to the surname index. > > HO107/548. ED14. Folio 4. Page 1. Little Green. Tonge. > Abm Stansfield.45. Miller. > Jane Stansfield. 45. > Eliza Stansfield. 20. Silk weaver. > Henry Stansfield. Silk weaver. > John Stansfield. 15. Silk weaver. > Samuel Stansfield. 15. Silk weaver. > Abm Stansfield. 14. > Joseph Stansfield. 10. > Edward Stansfield. 7. > Jane Stansfield. 2. > All born in county. > > Doreen. > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004 > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > Make your own home page with IMS > Web Dwarf. Free HTML Editor http://www.webdwarf.com >

There has always been a Holy Grail of proving the that the singers Grace Stansfield (Gracie Fields) and Lisa Stansfield both of whom came from Rochdale were related. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Morris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] searching for Stansfields etc. > I wonder if Lisa Stansfield the popular singer is related to this family? > Her family lived somewhere near Bamford and Rochdale area. I think close to Rochdale cemetery. > > Just a thought :)) > > Mike Morris > Toronto Canada > ----- Original Message ----- > From: doreen EL-AHWANY > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:24 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] searching for Stansfields etc. > > > Kathy, > Is this your Abraham on the 1841 census? Wife Jane not Sarah. > This is the only Stansfield in Tonge according to the surname index. > > HO107/548. ED14. Folio 4. Page 1. Little Green. Tonge. > Abm Stansfield.45. Miller. > Jane Stansfield. 45. > Eliza Stansfield. 20. Silk weaver. > Henry Stansfield. Silk weaver. > John Stansfield. 15. Silk weaver. > Samuel Stansfield. 15. Silk weaver. > Abm Stansfield. 14. > Joseph Stansfield. 10. > Edward Stansfield. 7. > Jane Stansfield. 2. > All born in county. > > Doreen. > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004 > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > Make your own home page with IMS > Web Dwarf. Free HTML Editor http://www.webdwarf.com > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~emmaw/ for free Web Editor software. > Web space. ANY amount. ANY subject. > RootsWeb's Freepages put you in touch with millions. > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/acctform.cgi > >

Hi John If you look again at your map where Hilton Fold Lane and Oldham Road meet if you were facing Oldham with Hilton fold on your left just a few yards up on the right hand side is Kenyon Lane. I have been down it twice today and will do the same again tommorrow. Ivy Middleton Manchester ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Heywood" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] St. Leonards help and "KENYON LANE" question > The Manchester A to Z gives 3 contemporary Kenyon Lanes in M10 Moston, M24 > Middleton, and M25 Prestwich. The first two are 'near' Oldham. For some > reason I can't see the Middleton Kenyon Lane on the map, but it's supposed > to be near Hilton Fold Lane. > Off Boarshaw Rd on the outskirts of Middleton there's a 'Kenyon's Farm.' > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Neil Kenyon" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:54 PM > Subject: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] St. Leonards help and "KENYON LANE" question > > > > Hi to list, > > > > Could someone be able to tell me how far back the register at St.Leonards > goes? > > > > I have a John and Sarah KENYON parents of William KENYON who was baptized > there 1763 and would be interested in searching this line back as far as > possible. > > > > Also, Does anyone on list have any information about a road or street > named "Kenyon Lane" located in the Oldham area? > > > > Would appreciate any help. > > > > Thanks, > > Neil Kenyon, > > French Lick, IN > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~emmaw/ for free Web Editor software. > > Web space. ANY amount. ANY subject. > > RootsWeb's Freepages put you in touch with millions. > > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/acctform.cgi > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > Make your own home page with IMS > Web Dwarf. Free HTML Editor http://www.webdwarf.com >

Hi Helen, I did check the Middleton area a few weeks ago for you for James and Jane Wolstenholme in the 1841 census, but didn`t find them. (Don`t think I`ve yet sent out all my replies - sorry). Films checked were HO107/544; 545 and 548. Doreen. ----- Original Message ----- > Can anyone check the 1841 census for Bury to see if there is a John Kay with > wife, Rachel there? > > Also, can someone kindly the check the same census for Middleton to see the > family of James Wolstenholme, wife Jane, and a number of children, for their > occupation and address?? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004

Kathy, Is this your Abraham on the 1841 census? Wife Jane not Sarah. This is the only Stansfield in Tonge according to the surname index. HO107/548. ED14. Folio 4. Page 1. Little Green. Tonge. Abm Stansfield.45. Miller. Jane Stansfield. 45. Eliza Stansfield. 20. Silk weaver. Henry Stansfield. Silk weaver. John Stansfield. 15. Silk weaver. Samuel Stansfield. 15. Silk weaver. Abm Stansfield. 14. Joseph Stansfield. 10. Edward Stansfield. 7. Jane Stansfield. 2. All born in county. Doreen. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004

Hi Kathy, The grave occupants list at Middleton Library is only for graveyard number 2. I have a copy here (currently being checked for headstone errors) and Samuel and Betty Taylor are not in there, neither is Emma Stansfield. It is possible that they were buried in the Old Cemetery (the very large area around graveyard number 3). There are records of these burials at the library on microfilm 1862-1998 (I am indexing these). It would be worth checking these. If not found there, the vicar would have the records for 1932. Have you looked in the Middleton Guardian for a funeral report? Boarshaw Cem opened 1912. Doreen. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004

Dear Kathy, I enjoyed your description of your experience of the Middleton Church Yard. It was the first place I explored when I started doing my family tree, and it's still the best. It is the mixture of feeling your personal connectedness to the spot while experiencing whatever nature has to offer at that moment. I like the way the moss and weeds form mats that mould themselves into the letters of the inscription, so that when you pull them off you get the inscriptions in reverse. Another thing special to Middleton is the remarkably complete series of inscriptions on the walls and coping stones left by the churchwardens each time they expanded the church yard. I understand the club houses were special because they were a prototype for building societies. As a result Middleton hand loom silk weavers had a higher rate of owner-occupation than equivalent classes in other towns. Bamford describes his uncle's house in Early Days. Can you say any more about them from either your memory or your father's? Why was the plan in the RGA Library? And what did it show - streets and houses? (Thanks for that tip by the way - one day I'll follow it up) Regarding your GG-M, Middleton Library does have a written list of grave occupants. If by any chance your GGM hadn't been allowed to reopen the grave there, wouldn't she be in Boarshaw Cemetery at that date? John Heywood. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] searching for Stansfields etc. > Dear List, > > I am enjoying very much all the emails I'm getting from the list, especially > those concerning the wonderful necropolis at St Leonard's. I live in London, > but came back to Middleton where I lived until I was 9, to spend a day in the > library doing some FH research. It was spring, and I spent some time in the > churchyard which was a riot of colour with hawthorns in full blossom, pulling > layers of wet grass off gravestones in a random search which revealed the > burial of my oldest known connection, Abraham Stansfield (1797-1856), his wife > Sarah and their children. I have been told that they appear in the 1841 census, > living at Little Green where he was a miller, but despite several visits to the > FRC (one advantage of London) I cannot find them until 1851. I think his > family may have come from Chadderton. Any chance of confirming the 1841 census > entry? > > I looked in vain for my GG-M, Emma, who married Abraham Stansfield at St > Leonard's in 1875. I know she is buried in the churchyard, possibly with her > parents (Samuel Taylor and Betty ?) who were from Hebers (no death dates) as she > and Abraham had split up. She died in 1932, and told my Dad (now 87 and living > with me in London) that there was 'just room for one more' in the grave. > > I think the churchyard is a very special place, and wonder if there is any > chance of getting funds for some clearance/restoration work. Even Bamford's > grave is overgrown and not respected, and his memorial in Cheapside where I grew > up is a disgrace. What a pity that all the club houses were pulled down in > the 1960s. I found a wonderful, huge old plan of this area dating from the > mid-1800s in the Royal Geographical Association Library in London. > > Kathy Stansfield > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~emmaw/ for free Web Editor software. > Web space. ANY amount. ANY subject. > RootsWeb's Freepages put you in touch with millions.

Hi John In truth I have never asked either of them I know all of the details that I need regarding the people that are in there and no one else would want to go in and I have to say that since I found out that crematoriums keep a record of the spot that they scatter a persons ashes, I have matched people up that way. My parents and my fathers mother a in a beautiful rose garden just outside Blackpool and I can go and sit there anytime I like and the best thing is I always have lovely thoughts when I am there, my fathers father was on his own in Chorlton from 1952 until 5 years ago when I managed to get his younger son (my uncle) with him. My Auntie and her mother are together in York. I feel it will be a long time before these gardens are dug up so at least I am happy. Ivy Middleton Manchester ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Heywood" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > Dear Ivy, > > I sympathise with how you feel. But is it really true that the spot cannot > be located now? Surely the council or church should have kept records and > some way to locate and identify graves? > > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ivy Murphy" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > > > > Dear John > > > > I agree with you that it is criminal what they are doing to the graveyards > > around the country. I personally have some grave papers that were paid up > > in 1932 for a six person grave in Milnrow just outside Rochdale. To my > > knowledge there were 3 people buried in there with a possible baby who > died > > at birth. So it would seem to me that as the oldest member of my family I > > should have the right to be buried in that grave, however seeing as it has > > all been grassed over and it is impossible to find the spot now even for > > myself or either of my 2 cousins that actually used to visit the grave it > > would be impossible. Fair enough I have no desire to be buried nor have > my > > cousins but the principal is still there. > > > > Ivy Murphy > > Middleton Manchester > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Heywood" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:13 AM > > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > > > > > > > Dear Doreen, > > > > > > Yes, I'd enjoy that very much. You have to catch the brief window > between > > > slipping on the ice and everything disappearing as the grass grows! > > > > > > Is anyone in Middleton aware of how special the lupins are, or are they > > just > > > taken for granted because they've always been there? In the 19th > century, > > > people were passionately interested in nature and formed botanical clubs > > > that went out on the moors looking for new species of wild flowers. I > > > remember coming across an impressive stone in Middleton No3, to a > William > > > Worsley, I think, which proudly declares he's a botanist. Middleton is > > lucky > > > to have its entire society from the 18th century on still on display. > One > > of > > > my other lines ends up in Eccles, where all the stones have been buried > > > under four foot of soil to make a park. Another two end up in Cheetham > > Hill > > > Methodist Cemetery which has just been destroyed to make way for a > > > supermarket. It's a bit worrying at the moment because since a child was > > > killed by a falling gravestone somewhere in Britain, every council has > had > > > to identify its dangerous stones and put stickers on them. So cemeteries > > are > > > in danger of being seen as liabilities rather than assets. Plus the > > > government is proposing to bring in legislation to allow old graves to > be > > > dug up and re-used. I hope Middleton recognises it has a resource - both > > > historical, aesthetic and ecological - that should be protected because > it > > > can attract visitors to the town from all over the world. > > > > > > John > > > > > > John > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "doreen EL-AHWANY" <[email protected]> > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:09 AM > > > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > > > > > > > > > > Hello John, > > > > > > > > Yes, spring 2005 is when I will be ready for the graveyard search. > Have > > to > > > > finish indexing the burials from the PRs first. Should be finished > > before > > > > then - but winter is not a good time to wander around the graveyard! > > > > > > > > If you could manage to come over and help - that would be great. > > > > Thanks a lot. > > > > > > > > Doreen. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > > > > Make your own home page with IMS > > > > Web Dwarf. Free HTML Editor http://www.webdwarf.com > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > > > To unsubscribe, > > > you should send the command "unsubscribe" to > > [email protected] > > > (if in mail mode) or [email protected] (if in > > digest mode.) > > > To switch from one mode to the other, you should unsubscribe from one > > > and then subscribe to the other. If you > > > want messages to stop, you should simply unsubscribe. > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > > Please ensure the "subject" reflects the contents of your message > > http://www.vmims.com/middleton.htm > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > Check out the Middleton site for up-dates http://www.vmims.com/middleton.htm >

Dear Ivy, I sympathise with how you feel. But is it really true that the spot cannot be located now? Surely the council or church should have kept records and some way to locate and identify graves? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivy Murphy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > Dear John > > I agree with you that it is criminal what they are doing to the graveyards > around the country. I personally have some grave papers that were paid up > in 1932 for a six person grave in Milnrow just outside Rochdale. To my > knowledge there were 3 people buried in there with a possible baby who died > at birth. So it would seem to me that as the oldest member of my family I > should have the right to be buried in that grave, however seeing as it has > all been grassed over and it is impossible to find the spot now even for > myself or either of my 2 cousins that actually used to visit the grave it > would be impossible. Fair enough I have no desire to be buried nor have my > cousins but the principal is still there. > > Ivy Murphy > Middleton Manchester > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Heywood" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:13 AM > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > > > > Dear Doreen, > > > > Yes, I'd enjoy that very much. You have to catch the brief window between > > slipping on the ice and everything disappearing as the grass grows! > > > > Is anyone in Middleton aware of how special the lupins are, or are they > just > > taken for granted because they've always been there? In the 19th century, > > people were passionately interested in nature and formed botanical clubs > > that went out on the moors looking for new species of wild flowers. I > > remember coming across an impressive stone in Middleton No3, to a William > > Worsley, I think, which proudly declares he's a botanist. Middleton is > lucky > > to have its entire society from the 18th century on still on display. One > of > > my other lines ends up in Eccles, where all the stones have been buried > > under four foot of soil to make a park. Another two end up in Cheetham > Hill > > Methodist Cemetery which has just been destroyed to make way for a > > supermarket. It's a bit worrying at the moment because since a child was > > killed by a falling gravestone somewhere in Britain, every council has had > > to identify its dangerous stones and put stickers on them. So cemeteries > are > > in danger of being seen as liabilities rather than assets. Plus the > > government is proposing to bring in legislation to allow old graves to be > > dug up and re-used. I hope Middleton recognises it has a resource - both > > historical, aesthetic and ecological - that should be protected because it > > can attract visitors to the town from all over the world. > > > > John > > > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "doreen EL-AHWANY" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:09 AM > > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > > > > > > > Hello John, > > > > > > Yes, spring 2005 is when I will be ready for the graveyard search. Have > to > > > finish indexing the burials from the PRs first. Should be finished > before > > > then - but winter is not a good time to wander around the graveyard! > > > > > > If you could manage to come over and help - that would be great. > > > Thanks a lot. > > > > > > Doreen. > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004 > > > > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > > > Make your own home page with IMS > > > Web Dwarf. Free HTML Editor http://www.webdwarf.com > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe, > > you should send the command "unsubscribe" to > [email protected] > > (if in mail mode) or [email protected] (if in > digest mode.) > > To switch from one mode to the other, you should unsubscribe from one > > and then subscribe to the other. If you > > want messages to stop, you should simply unsubscribe. > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > Please ensure the "subject" reflects the contents of your message > http://www.vmims.com/middleton.htm

The Manchester A to Z gives 3 contemporary Kenyon Lanes in M10 Moston, M24 Middleton, and M25 Prestwich. The first two are 'near' Oldham. For some reason I can't see the Middleton Kenyon Lane on the map, but it's supposed to be near Hilton Fold Lane. Off Boarshaw Rd on the outskirts of Middleton there's a 'Kenyon's Farm.' John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Kenyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] St. Leonards help and "KENYON LANE" question > Hi to list, > > Could someone be able to tell me how far back the register at St.Leonards goes? > > I have a John and Sarah KENYON parents of William KENYON who was baptized there 1763 and would be interested in searching this line back as far as possible. > > Also, Does anyone on list have any information about a road or street named "Kenyon Lane" located in the Oldham area? > > Would appreciate any help. > > Thanks, > Neil Kenyon, > French Lick, IN > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~emmaw/ for free Web Editor software. > Web space. ANY amount. ANY subject. > RootsWeb's Freepages put you in touch with millions. > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/acctform.cgi

I wonder if Lisa Stansfield the popular singer is related to this family? Her family lived somewhere near Bamford and Rochdale area. I think close to Rochdale cemetery. Just a thought :)) Mike Morris Toronto Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: doreen EL-AHWANY To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] searching for Stansfields etc. Kathy, Is this your Abraham on the 1841 census? Wife Jane not Sarah. This is the only Stansfield in Tonge according to the surname index. HO107/548. ED14. Folio 4. Page 1. Little Green. Tonge. Abm Stansfield.45. Miller. Jane Stansfield. 45. Eliza Stansfield. 20. Silk weaver. Henry Stansfield. Silk weaver. John Stansfield. 15. Silk weaver. Samuel Stansfield. 15. Silk weaver. Abm Stansfield. 14. Joseph Stansfield. 10. Edward Stansfield. 7. Jane Stansfield. 2. All born in county. Doreen. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004 ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== Make your own home page with IMS Web Dwarf. Free HTML Editor http://www.webdwarf.com

I have reached a brickwall with my smiths, Thomas Smith was born 1858 in Middleton, I believe I have found his baptism in the St Leonard registers, son of William and Hannah Smith. This is where I'm stuck, he appears to be the only child they had in Middleton according to the registers. I can't find his parents in any census, have traced him 1881-1901 and his children. So if anyone comes across em, let me know!!! George --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now

Hi Neil, St Leonards registers go back to 1541. See "Library" page on my still temporary web page - I really must get this sorted out properly soon! Kenyon Lane runs off Oldham Road in Tonge, Middleton - not Oldham. Doreen. http://mysite.freeserve.com/localresearch2 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004

Dear List, I am enjoying very much all the emails I'm getting from the list, especially those concerning the wonderful necropolis at St Leonard's. I live in London, but came back to Middleton where I lived until I was 9, to spend a day in the library doing some FH research. It was spring, and I spent some time in the churchyard which was a riot of colour with hawthorns in full blossom, pulling layers of wet grass off gravestones in a random search which revealed the burial of my oldest known connection, Abraham Stansfield (1797-1856), his wife Sarah and their children. I have been told that they appear in the 1841 census, living at Little Green where he was a miller, but despite several visits to the FRC (one advantage of London) I cannot find them until 1851. I think his family may have come from Chadderton. Any chance of confirming the 1841 census entry? I looked in vain for my GG-M, Emma, who married Abraham Stansfield at St Leonard's in 1875. I know she is buried in the churchyard, possibly with her parents (Samuel Taylor and Betty ?) who were from Hebers (no death dates) as she and Abraham had split up. She died in 1932, and told my Dad (now 87 and living with me in London) that there was 'just room for one more' in the grave. I think the churchyard is a very special place, and wonder if there is any chance of getting funds for some clearance/restoration work. Even Bamford's grave is overgrown and not respected, and his memorial in Cheapside where I grew up is a disgrace. What a pity that all the club houses were pulled down in the 1960s. I found a wonderful, huge old plan of this area dating from the mid-1800s in the Royal Geographical Association Library in London. Kathy Stansfield

Dear John I agree with you that it is criminal what they are doing to the graveyards around the country. I personally have some grave papers that were paid up in 1932 for a six person grave in Milnrow just outside Rochdale. To my knowledge there were 3 people buried in there with a possible baby who died at birth. So it would seem to me that as the oldest member of my family I should have the right to be buried in that grave, however seeing as it has all been grassed over and it is impossible to find the spot now even for myself or either of my 2 cousins that actually used to visit the grave it would be impossible. Fair enough I have no desire to be buried nor have my cousins but the principal is still there. Ivy Murphy Middleton Manchester ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Heywood" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:13 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > Dear Doreen, > > Yes, I'd enjoy that very much. You have to catch the brief window between > slipping on the ice and everything disappearing as the grass grows! > > Is anyone in Middleton aware of how special the lupins are, or are they just > taken for granted because they've always been there? In the 19th century, > people were passionately interested in nature and formed botanical clubs > that went out on the moors looking for new species of wild flowers. I > remember coming across an impressive stone in Middleton No3, to a William > Worsley, I think, which proudly declares he's a botanist. Middleton is lucky > to have its entire society from the 18th century on still on display. One of > my other lines ends up in Eccles, where all the stones have been buried > under four foot of soil to make a park. Another two end up in Cheetham Hill > Methodist Cemetery which has just been destroyed to make way for a > supermarket. It's a bit worrying at the moment because since a child was > killed by a falling gravestone somewhere in Britain, every council has had > to identify its dangerous stones and put stickers on them. So cemeteries are > in danger of being seen as liabilities rather than assets. Plus the > government is proposing to bring in legislation to allow old graves to be > dug up and re-used. I hope Middleton recognises it has a resource - both > historical, aesthetic and ecological - that should be protected because it > can attract visitors to the town from all over the world. > > John > > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "doreen EL-AHWANY" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > > > > Hello John, > > > > Yes, spring 2005 is when I will be ready for the graveyard search. Have to > > finish indexing the burials from the PRs first. Should be finished before > > then - but winter is not a good time to wander around the graveyard! > > > > If you could manage to come over and help - that would be great. > > Thanks a lot. > > > > Doreen. > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004 > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > > Make your own home page with IMS > > Web Dwarf. Free HTML Editor http://www.webdwarf.com > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe, > you should send the command "unsubscribe" to [email protected] > (if in mail mode) or [email protected] (if in digest mode.) > To switch from one mode to the other, you should unsubscribe from one > and then subscribe to the other. If you > want messages to stop, you should simply unsubscribe. >

Can anyone check the 1841 census for Bury to see if there is a John Kay with wife, Rachel there? Also, can someone kindly the check the same census for Middleton to see the family of James Wolstenholme, wife Jane, and a number of children, for their occupation and address?? Many thanks. Helen in Germany

Dear Doreen, Yes, I'd enjoy that very much. You have to catch the brief window between slipping on the ice and everything disappearing as the grass grows! Is anyone in Middleton aware of how special the lupins are, or are they just taken for granted because they've always been there? In the 19th century, people were passionately interested in nature and formed botanical clubs that went out on the moors looking for new species of wild flowers. I remember coming across an impressive stone in Middleton No3, to a William Worsley, I think, which proudly declares he's a botanist. Middleton is lucky to have its entire society from the 18th century on still on display. One of my other lines ends up in Eccles, where all the stones have been buried under four foot of soil to make a park. Another two end up in Cheetham Hill Methodist Cemetery which has just been destroyed to make way for a supermarket. It's a bit worrying at the moment because since a child was killed by a falling gravestone somewhere in Britain, every council has had to identify its dangerous stones and put stickers on them. So cemeteries are in danger of being seen as liabilities rather than assets. Plus the government is proposing to bring in legislation to allow old graves to be dug up and re-used. I hope Middleton recognises it has a resource - both historical, aesthetic and ecological - that should be protected because it can attract visitors to the town from all over the world. John John ----- Original Message ----- From: "doreen EL-AHWANY" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON-L] Heywoods in Middleton > Hello John, > > Yes, spring 2005 is when I will be ready for the graveyard search. Have to > finish indexing the burials from the PRs first. Should be finished before > then - but winter is not a good time to wander around the graveyard! > > If you could manage to come over and help - that would be great. > Thanks a lot. > > Doreen. > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004 > > > ==== ENG-LAN-MIDDLETON Mailing List ==== > Make your own home page with IMS > Web Dwarf. Free HTML Editor http://www.webdwarf.com

Thanks a lot Laura. Doreen. ----- Original Message ----- > Hi Dorren, > Not sure about work commitments next spring yet but you can put me down provisionally if you like - I'm in Whitefield, not far at all. Laura V. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004

Thanks Gwenda. Doreen. ----- Original Message ----- > Doreen - Put my name on the list. > Gwenda Manco. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004

Thanks Joan, this would be the old cemetery. The records used to be kept at Rochdale Cem, but there are now filmed copies in Middleton Library. A plan has been started of this also. Doreen. > I have a grave that is close to the wall behind the old school. the last > time I saw it it had my Grandfather name on. I know for a fact that there > are more people in that grave as I went to the funerals but the stone > doesn't give them all. If you ever come across it (John Thomas Smith) let me > know and I will give you the names of the others just for the record. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.586 / Virus Database: 371 - Release Date: 12/02/2004