Hi Lynn When I am looking for an event I usually go to FreeBMD as you can see the partners listed there. Then I look at the GRO and if I find one person in a quarter I look in the same quarter for the other person. Usually works. However in this case___________!!!!!!! Obviously with no marriage records I cannot be 100% certain thay did marry, except that on her death cert her husband is mentioned by name and occupation and on his 2nd marriage he's listed as a widower. Regards beth > > When you do repost, be sure to include some more information that will > help others help you. For instance, provide the evidence you have that > the couple married (is there a chance that they did not?); say whether > or not you've searched for ORMROD (a more common variant and one > widespread in Lancashire); and say how you've searched (I believe in >

Hi Janet I have since discovered OPRs are PRs so named in the Scottish churches. I originally joined the Fylde list as that is where the 2nd marriage occured and had not realised there was an Oldham list. The Oldham Archives group were very helpful sorting out one marriage for me, and mentioning others. They also filled me in on the Pub the father ran etc etc. I have the Birth and death of Sarah Alice, and the marriages of her parents and brother Joseph. Only her marriage is missing, and as I already have some incorrect certificates for various Sarah Alice's I am reluctant to order any without a James Crowther also mentioned. The family in 1901 can be found at Oldham RG 13/3810 f 71 page 11. Using FreeBMd one can often work out who married whom and I gather that there are no ORMONROYD/CROWTHER marriages on the GRO at present. The one in N Bierley is probably one who was born there as per the 1891 census(I think) The ones you mentioned in 1901 have 4 names listed on the page so I believe they are the ones that would make up the 2 couples. I'll join the Oldham list and see if anything pops up there. Thanks for your ideas beth in NS

Hello Olive I might have made a mistake about OR, it appears that it should have been OPR and might perhaps be only associated with Scotish records. I have actually looked at the entire GRO list, not just Oldham and cannot find many Ormonroyd entries at all. I am assuming they were married but where is a good question. I have her death cert. where she is listed as Sarah Alice Crowther, husband James a carder, and I have James Crowther marrying as a widower. She was 22 in 1901 on the census, living at home, so I don't know why they would have eloped. The Oldham Archives have been very helpful but have no such record. Other than finding missing church records I don't know where to look. She wouldn't have been voting at that date, and I have no idea where she worked, no occupation on the census. Not knowing what data bases are available makes it difficult to know what to ask for. She was sick for 4 months before dying but no hospitals are mentioned when she died. Thanks for your ideas Beth in NS

Hi Beth You're looking for a marriage between Sarah Alice ORMONROYD and James CROWTHER that you assume took place in the Oldham area sometime between 1901 and 1905. First of all, you're on the wrong list. Whoops! :-O This list doesn't cover Oldham. For that you need either LancsGen, which covers all of Lancashire (see <http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/LANCSGEN.html>, Eng-Manchester (see <http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/ENG-MANCHESTER.html> or the Oldham list (see <http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/ENG-LAN-OLDHAM.html>). I would suggest that you post on LancsGen and then, if you find that your interests lie in a particular area of the county, post on that locality's list. When you do repost, be sure to include some more information that will help others help you. For instance, provide the evidence you have that the couple married (is there a chance that they did not?); say whether or not you've searched for ORMROD (a more common variant and one widespread in Lancashire); and say how you've searched (I believe in order to find a marriage in the GRO images on Ancestry that you have to view each image separately). Good luck! Best wishes, Lynne PS I've never heard of ORs either, except in hospitals. ;-) That may be a regional thing. OPRs are online parish registers. > >

Hi there What exactly does OR stand for ?? I have a girl bapt as Esther and married using that name. 1851, 1861 and 1871 she is listed as using that Christian name. However in 1881 she is remarried and appears as Charlotte. Having puzzled over this for many years I came across a death on the new Manchester burial site, entered as Esther Charlotte. Decided to go for it and send for the death certificate which arrived with both the names written down. One puzzle worked out, but the remaining puzzle is where is the record for the second marriage and the record for the death of the first husband. I cannot still work out why she suddenly changed her name, unless when she married for the second time she was not really a widow. I presume that you have searched for Sarah Alice marriage taking place anywhere, apart from Oldham. Just in case the marriage was not accepted by the family. How old would she be at the marriage date, would they have gone to Gretna Green, for instance, and eloped? How old was she when she married? Olive

Hi Janet I would normally call them PRs but have noticed other people on various lists calling them ORs, presumably OLD??????? I am looking for a marriage between the 1901 census and February 1905 when the bride died. It was between Sarah Alice ORMONROYD, father John Thomas Ormonroyd, and James CROWTHER, father John Crowther. I am ASSUMING the marriage took place in the Oldham area as all records of both families are found there till after the re-marriage in 1908 of James. He then went to India with his new wife, my great aunt, Helen Lydia RUSHTON. I have the GRO online via Ancestry, and there are no Sarah Alice Ormonroyd marriages to be found. I have her death cert. so know a Sarah Alice Ormonroyd was married to a James Crowther, and my James was a widower when he married in 1905. It has been suggested that she could have been previously married, but I would still need a Sarah Alice Ormonroyd event. She is single and at home on the 1901 census. Reading some very interesting messages on other lists I am seriously considering that the marriage is not listed or could be sitting in some church somewhere and not sent in. I did also wonder if two marriage records had been mixed up together, but I still need a Sarah Alice. Any, and all, ideas gratefully received. Regards beth in Canada -----

Hi Beth I'm not sure exactly what you mean by ORs - maybe I'm being stupid, but it's not a term I've come across before. I must admit, I thought that the GRO indexes were pretty much complete. Maybe you can enlighten me!!! Which district are you searching for, and what name/event? All the best Janet Lytham St Annes, Lancashire >From: Beth <bwearing@eastlink.ca> >Reply-To: Beth <bwearing@eastlink.ca>, eng-lan-fylde@rootsweb.com >To: eng-lan-fylde@rootsweb.com >Reading data on various other lists I gather that there are quite a few >incumbants out there who do not/will not send in their records to be added >to the Gro lists. > >How do we discover which churches have not sent in their records. I have a >marriage which must have taken place between the 1901 census and february >1905. No sign of it anywhere. _________________________________________________________________ Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/

Reading data on various other lists I gather that there are quite a few incumbants out there who do not/will not send in their records to be added to the Gro lists. How do we discover which churches have not sent in their records. I have a marriage which must have taken place between the 1901 census and february 1905. No sign of it anywhere. Regards beth in NS

Forwarded with the author's kind permission. -------- Original Message -------- Hi New data has been added at www.lancashirebmd.org.uk as follows: 19,497 births for Blackburn RD comprising: sub-districts of Blackburn Northern (1888-1892); Blackburn Southern (1889-1893) and Darwen (1894-1901) 7,778 marriages for West Lancashire (Ormskirk) RD comprising: Cof E: St. John, Burscough (1848-1952); Christ Church, Newburgh (1871-1990); St. Peter and St. Paul, Ormskirk (1921-1955); St. Mary the Virgin, Rufford (1837-1962); St. Mark, Scarisbrick (1870-1952); Ecumenical Centre, Skelmersdale (1837-1953); Christ the Servant, Upholland, Digmoor (1873-1949); Authorised Person: Ormskirk, Emmanuel Methodist - United Reformed Chapel (1930-1958); North Meols, Banks, Methodist Chapel (1928-1955); Skelmersdale, High Street, Methodist United Reformed Church (1931-1958); Tarleton, Church Road, Methodist Chapel (1929-1953); Wrightington, Mossy Lea, Tunley United Reformed Church (1931-1954); Hesketh with Becconsall, Hesketh Moss, Methodist Church (1938-1959); Tarleton, Mere Brow, Methodist Chapel (1931-1950); Tarleton, Hesketh Lane, Methodist Church (1926-1957); Upholland, Tontine, Methodist Church (1932-1950); Scarisbrick, Wood Moss Lane,Bescar Lane, Methodist Chapel (1934-1972); Upholland, Alma Hill, Methodist Church (1924-1955); Rufford, Brick Kiln Lane, Methodist Chapel (1921-1975); Skelmersdale, Knowle Brow, Wesleyan Chapel (1924-1967); Ormskirk, Chapel Street, Congregational Church (1922-1949) Thanks to Tony Foster for the first and David Caunce for the second of these valuable additions. John ++++++++++++ John Marsden Sale, Cheshire Webmaster LancashireBMD

I've just received copies of the deaths of Norman and Clare Nock and I now have a few queries. Norman NOCK died 8th October 1986 in Trinity Hospice, Low Moor Road, Blackpool. He was living at 25 Birchwood Drive at the time of his death. Would anyone know where Norman would be likely to have been buried? Clare Nock, wife of Norman, died 11th June 1999 at Devonshire Road Hospital, Blackpool. She was living at Sea Bank House, 27-31 The Esplanade, Knott End. Clare was cremated but I would like to know where her ashes are likely to be buried? Please could anyone tell me if Sea Bank House, 27-31 The Esplanade, Knott End was or is a hotel. I know that Norman and Clare did have a hotel in the Blackpool area at some time. On the death certificate for Clare Nock the informant was Peter John Hedges, of 27-31 The Esplanade, Knott End. I've been looking for a phone number for Peter J Hedges (presuming he is still alive) but the only possible is Peter J Hedges, 9 Peel Hill, Blackpool FY4 5JP and he must be ex-directory. I have no idea if Norman and Clare Nock had any children but I am slowly wading through Ancestry to see what I can find. And lastly please could someone tell me in which local newspaper both of the above deaths may have been recorded. Any help with any of this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Cynthia

> Hi Stephen > I have a feeling of 'deja vu' about your query! Have we corresponded > before? Hello, Some branches of the family tree are easier than others. The Edmundson line is the one I have had the most difficulty with; partly because so little is known about them by the surviving family and partly because Edmundson seems to have been a very common name in Fylde. I have asked questions about JTE on this list before, so I'm sure that's where the deja vu came from. In fact, I thought I had asked about the GRO indices before but posted anyway just in case anything new came to light. > The indexes usually (but not always) list the full name. Like everything in > this wonderful hobby, there are always exceptions to rules. And just > because he was always known as 'John Thomas' doesn't necessarily mean his > birth was registered as such! > Anyway, here's a birth in 1887 that may be of interest:- > Name: John Thomas Edmundson I think I have got this certificate already. I know from his army records that his mother (next of kin) was Elizabeth and this certificate gives an Elizabeth, so it might be him. The problem is, I do not have anything to double check this against. I think I need to look at misspellings such as Edmondson. I have found a J Edmondson born in 1888. I wonder whether that might be the man I'm looking for? Thanks again, Stephen.

Hello Janet and all I sent the following ad to the lists that I subscribe to, still to do was Fylde, but you kind of beat me to it. The last paragraph is from an email from Barbara. Dates and Times = Friday and Saturday 16th and 17th March from 10.00 a.m. to 4.30 p.m. Place - United Reform Church Hall, St Georges Road St Annes on Sea, directions 1st turning off Clifton Drive after the traffic lights at the Square. These directions apply to people travelling from Preston. People attending will be - Lancashire Record Office, St Annes on Sea Library, British Sound Archives, Friends of Ashton Gardens, LFH&HS Fylde branch. There will be snippets of a video made regarding the Lifeboat disaster and the sinking of the Mexico, a tapestry of this is available in St Annes on Sea Church. There may be others, but these are the stalls as at today's date. The Exhibition is mainly concerning St Annes on Sea and nearby areas including Heyhouses. There is no entry charge, refreshments will be available. Some of the confirmed participants: SOAG, Library, Civic Society, St Anne's Parish church tapestry (Mexico disaster) organiser (including short dvd), Record Office, Preston, North West Sound Archives, and Peter Shakeshaft. We are hoping to have some history on the St Anne's churches and the cricket club and RNLI. We don't know if the high school will come through as communication with people there seems to be non-existent so if it happens it will be a bonus! There will be a display about the town council and about our twin town of Werne, Germany. Hope to see some of you there. Olive

Hi Stephen I have a feeling of 'deja vu' about your query! Have we corresponded before? The indexes usually (but not always) list the full name. Like everything in this wonderful hobby, there are always exceptions to rules. And just because he was always known as 'John Thomas' doesn't necessarily mean his birth was registered as such! Anyway, here's a birth in 1887 that may be of interest:- Name: John Thomas Edmundson Year of Registration: 1887 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Blackburn County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 387 Hope this helps. Janet C >From: familytree@tinfoil.cotse.net >I'm having trouble searching for my Great-grandfather: John Thomas >Edmundson. I would like to look for a birth certificate. Could anyone >tell me is he likely to be listed as "John T" in the GRO index or >would he be listed as just "John"? Do the indices list middle >initials? > >I suppose I also need to look at all the possible spellings of >Edmundson? > >I'm looking in Lancashire about 1887-1888. _________________________________________________________________ Exclusive Ed Byrne daily comedy clips on MSN Video http://specials.uk.msn.com/edbyrne/

I just saw this in our local paper and thought it might be of interest to some of you:- [From the Lytham St Annes Express 1 March 2007] Church to host history events. Memorabilia about St Annes is being sought for two history days. The United reformed Church Hall in St George’s Road will be the venue for the event organised by St Annes Town Council. The event will include stands from Fylde branch of the family history society, local historians, Express newspaper archives and material from the records office in Preston. The history days will be held on Friday 16 March and Saturday 17 March from 10am to 4pm. Anyone with any memorabilia, including photographs, should call Barbara Mackenzie on 01253 711584. _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile. http://www.msn.txt4content.com/

Hello, I'm having trouble searching for my Great-grandfather: John Thomas Edmundson. I would like to look for a birth certificate. Could anyone tell me is he likely to be listed as "John T" in the GRO index or would he be listed as just "John"? Do the indices list middle initials? I suppose I also need to look at all the possible spellings of Edmundson? I'm looking in Lancashire about 1887-1888. Thanks, Stephen.

Hope these are of interest to you. =====MARCH===== 7 March 7:30 pm - ASHTON & SALE HISTORY SOCIETY, "Cheshire Murders." St.Mary's Church Centre Moss Lane, Sale. http://www.trafford.gov.uk/content/events/eventdetails.asp?EventID=1321 <http://www.trafford.gov.uk/content/events/eventdetails.asp?EventID=1321> 7 March 7:30 pm - BOLTON & DISTRICT FHS "Hands Across the Sea." Bolton Cricket Club, Green Lane, Great Lever, Bolton. http://mlfhs.org.uk/Bolton/index.html <http://mlfhs.org.uk/Bolton/index.html> 9 March 10 am to 1 pm - WALLASEY CENTRAL LIBRARY Family History Morning. Members of the FHS of Cheshire (Wallasey Group) will be available to help anybody researching their family history. Free. http://www.wirral.gov.uk/events/eventshow.asp?EventId=2897 <http://www.wirral.gov.uk/events/eventshow.asp?EventId=2897> 10 March 10 am to 4 pm - CITY OF YORK & DISTRICT FHS Family History Fair, The Folk Hall, New Earswick,York. http://www.yorkfamilyhistory.org.uk/fair2007.htm <http://www.yorkfamilyhistory.org.uk/fair2007.htm> 11 March 10 am to 5pm - THE MERSEYSIDE & CHESHIRE FAMILY HISTORY FAIR, Hulme Hall, Bolton Road, Port Sunlight Village, Bebington, Wirral, Merseyside. http://members.aol.com/aquarterma/familyhistoryfairs.html <http://members.aol.com/aquarterma/familyhistoryfairs.html> 14 March 12.15 pm - BURY MUSEUM AND ARCHIVES, Introduction to Archives, Bury Art Gallery, Museum+Archives, Moss Street, Bury. http://www.bury.gov.uk/Events/Events.asp <http://www.bury.gov.uk/Events/Events.asp> 17 March EAST LANCASHIRE RAILWAY Home Fleet Diesel Theme Day, Bolton Street, Bury. http://www.east-lancs-rly.co.uk/index2.php <http://www.east-lancs-rly.co.uk/index2.php> or email elrdieselnightrider@freenet.co.uk <mailto:elrdieselnightrider@freenet.co.uk> 18 March 8 pm - JEWISH HISTORICAL SOCIETY OF ENGLAND, Manchester Branch, "Mediaeval Jewish Philosophy." Manchester Jewish Museum, 190 Cheetham Hill Road, Manchester M8 8LW. http://www.jhse.org 19 March 10 am to 4 pm - ALSTON HALL COLLEGE, "Am I Holding this the Right Way Up?" - 18th and 19th century handwriting. Alston Hall College, Longridge. http://www.alstonhall.com/courses/category.php?id=1307 <http://www.alstonhall.com/courses/category.php?id=1307> =====APRIL===== 24 April 2 pm - CHESHIRE LOCAL HISTORY SOCIETY AGM, 'Revealing Cheshire's Past', Chester Town Hall. http://www.cheshirehistory.org.uk/Events/Calendar.htm <http://www.cheshirehistory.org.uk/Events/Calendar.htm>

Thank you OLIVE for replying. I do not know any further information on Harold Harman, except he married Lucy M WHITTLE in 1956 at Blackpool. Nancye nabrooks@ozemail.com.au 01.03.07 9.30am

Nancye Please let me know if you find anything about Harold. I just knew about someone of that name, it may or may not be connected, but it is nothing to do with my family. Good luck Olive

Are you like me, surrounded by stacks of unorganized papers, folders, and notebooks? Perhaps the new RECORD-KEEPING-METHODOLOGY mailing list can help: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Genealogical_Computing/RECORD-KEEPING-METHODOLOGY.html > This a mailing list for the discussion and sharing of information >regarding the storing, filing, archiving and recording of genealogical >data collected by both physical and electronic means. The aim of the >list is to adhere to the topic as set out above. This leaves a wide >latitude of areas which can be discussed by members. If you have >queries that fit into any of the above areas, we may be able to help. >Please assist by not posting general genealogical queries as they are >adequately accomodated [sic] by many other Rootsweb lists. > Now if there was only a list to recruit people to come to my house and clean up this mess . . . . <vbg> Lynne

Nancye Do you know anything more of Harold Hardman? Olive