I have two families I am trying to find out about - they lived in the Turton/Egerton area and I am hoping someone might have come across one or more of them in some context. Valerie has already helped me with some baptisms. Family 1 Helm(e) Horrocks b 17.6.1788 s of James Horrocks and Margaret Helm bap 22.6.1788 Walmsley Presbyterian Chapel Egerton (siblings Edmund Horrocks b 1783 and Mally Horrocks b 1785) in Turton married first Hannah Crook b 1802 in Turton m 1821 Children Mary Ann Horrocks b 28.6.1822 Dunscar bap 17.8.1822 Walmsley Presbyterian Chapel Egerton James Horrocks b 1824 Dunscar bap 18.3.1824 Walmsley Presbyterian Chapel Egerton Thomas Horrocks b 17.5.1825 Dunscar bap 31.5.1825 Walmsley Presbyterian Chapel Egerton Benjamin Horrocks b 31 3.1833 Stan Rows bap 10.4 1833 Walmsley Presbyterian Chapel Egerton James Horrocks b 1831 Turton nothing known of any of these except Thomas, aged 15, a Clogger and James, aged 10, were living with their father and second wife in 1841 census (in Horrocks Row, Egerton, Turton) . Hannah must have died between 1831 and 1837 Helm Horrocks married secondly Sarah Bythell in 1837, in Liverpool. Sarah came from Liverpool and returned there after the death of Helm Horrocks in 1875 (aged 87) Children Sarah Horrocks b 25.7.1838 Egerton bap Aug 1838 Walmsley Presbyterian Chapel Egerton Ann Horrocks b abt 1840 Turton - living with Sarah and husband Edmund Ratcliffe in 1861 census ??Emmeline Horrocks b abt 1847 Turton Martha Horrocks b abt 1848 Turton - living with parents up to 1871 census Helm Horrocks was a provisions dealer, grocer, licensed victualler and similar all his life. In 1841 they lived in Horrocks Row, Egerton but in 1861 they had moved to Tong with Halgh and Helm had retired although in 1871 they were back in Egerton and Helm was working again. Family 2 John Ratcliffe b abt 1792 (1851 census gives Darwen as birthplace) married Martha (maiden name unknown) b abt 1796 (1851 census gives Westhoughton as birthplace) Children James Ratcliffe b abt 1821 probably Egerton/Turton (Occupation unknown) Alice Ratcliffe b abt 1823 probably Egerton/Turton Margaret Ratcliffe b abt 1825 probably Egerton/Turton Ann Ratcliffe b abt 1827 probably Egerton/Turton Robert Ratcliffe b abt 1829 probably Egerton/Turton (Clogger) Edmund Ratcliffe b 1831 Egerton (Edward bap 5.6.1831 Walmsley Old Chapel - think this is mistranscribed) Annie/Annis/Annas Ratcliffe b abt 1833 Egerton/Turton (Annis bap 8.10.1833 Walmsley Old Chapel) Eliza Ratcliffe b abt 1836 Egerton/Turton John Ratcliffe was a stone mason and they lived in Ratcliffe Row Egerton, Turton in 1841 and 1851. John died between 1851 and 1861, I think in 1853 but haven't got the cert yet. Edmund Ratcliffe married Sarah Horrocks in 1856 Children Emmeline (Emelin/Emeline/Emmaline) Ratcliffe b 1857 Egerton Unknown child (spoken of in the family but not named) Sarah Ratcliffe (Horrocks) died between 1861 and 1865, when Edmund Ratcliffe married Nancy Hindle in Darwen There was a child, Walter Ratcliffe b abt 1858 Egerton/Turton and living with widowed Martha Ratcliffe and two of her daughters Eliza and Annie, as a visitor, possibly the child of Eliza Ratcliffe or of Edmund and Sarah but we can't find any other reference to him. Emmeline Ratcliffe was living with her Horrocks grandparents at this time although he mother was still alive. Here's hoping. Charlotte Ryan ceryan@sapo.pt