Hi Linda, I have had a good look for Richard and Ellen in 1861, but I have been unable to find them. I recently did some research for someone, and the woman and her children were living with her parents on two censuses, but I found the husband in prison. If Richard was in prison in England, he would have shown up somewhere. This does not explain where Ellen was. As I have been unable to find them in England and Wales in 1861, I wonder if they were in Scotland, for some reason. This is another mystery. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Hindley" <linda.hindley7@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 10:05 PM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Richard Walsh & Ellen Bullough > > Sorry about my first email. I am not totally sure what caused it to > corrupt > but it may have been the plain text format. I'll try again and keep my > fingers crossed > > I wonder if anyone can help or make any suggestions as to how I can solve > one of my brick walls? Details as follows > Richard Walsh and Ellen Bullough are my 2 x gt grand parents. > Richard was born about 1832 and was with his parents [William Mary] in > Lostock on the 1851 census, though their surname was spelt WALCH. > Ellen was with her parents [Peter and Betty] in Rumworth in 1851. > Richard and Ellen married on 2 Jan 1854 at Deane Parish Church and this > time > their name is spelt WELCH. > I have a copy of their son / my gt grandfather Peter's birth certificate. > He was born on 5/9/1856 in Chew Moor, Rumworth and on his birth the name > in > now WALSH. > > It is after this that it all goes wrong. I cannot find Richard or Ellen on > the 1861 with any of the spelling variations. Their children William, > Peter > and Mary are staying with their grand parents William and Mary -now WALSH > who have now moved from Lostock to Brackley St Farnworth. > > In 1871 the 3 children are still living with their grand parents in > Brackley St, Farnworth and I can still find no trace of Richard. I have > however found Ellen who is back living with her parents in Chew Moor > Lostock > and is shown as Ellen WALSH and is married > > In 1881 again I can find no trace of Richard but Ellen Walsh is now living > in Rumworth on Bella St and is shown as widowed. She is the head of the > house and has a couple of people boarding with her.Their son / my Gt > grandfather Peter has now married and is living with his wife Mary Louise, > my gt grandmother, on Morris Green Lane. I cannot find a reasonable match > for the other 2 siblings William and Mary on any of the 1881 and later > census and will still keep looking. > > However it is the fact that I can't find either Richard or Ellen on the > 1861 > and only Ellen on the1871 and on both census all their children are with > their grandparents that seems very strange. It's as though the children > were > brought up by the grandparents as I have never found anything to show them > living with the parents > I wonder where Richard and Ellen were? > I have found Ellen on the 1891 and the1901 census where again she has > boarders living with her. I have never found Richard on a census other > that > the 1851 with his parents. Has anyone any ideas on the best areas for me > to > research that would help fill the gaps. > > Kind regards > Linda Hindley > > researching Walsh, Roscoe, Lobb, Bullough, Ramwell Whitworth, Heywood, > Smith, Bolton,Vose , Raby, Ormrod, Makinson and Calderley > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Thanks Anne. I appreciate it - at least I know i have not missed it. I did think about prison but from what you say if someone is in prison they would still appear on the census. I will try and check out the Scotland idea. It maybe the answer to where they both were in 1861 but 1871 is very strange with Ellen still married but living with her parents in Lostock and her children with her missing husband's parents in Farnworth. Like you say another mystery' -------Original Message------- From: pneanne Date: 04/15/06 23:17:06 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Richard Walsh & Ellen Bullough Hi Linda, I have had a good look for Richard and Ellen in 1861, but I have been unable to find them. I recently did some research for someone, and the woman and her children were living with her parents on two censuses, but I found the husband in prison. If Richard was in prison in England, he would have shown up somewhere. This does not explain where Ellen was. As I have been unable to find them in England and Wales in 1861, I wonder if they were in Scotland, for some reason. This is another mystery. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Hindley" <linda.hindley7@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 10:05 PM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Richard Walsh & Ellen Bullough > > Sorry about my first email. I am not totally sure what caused it to > corrupt > but it may have been the plain text format. I'll try again and keep my > fingers crossed > > I wonder if anyone can help or make any suggestions as to how I can solve > one of my brick walls? Details as follows > Richard Walsh and Ellen Bullough are my 2 x gt grand parents. > Richard was born about 1832 and was with his parents [William Mary] in > Lostock on the 1851 census, though their surname was spelt WALCH. > Ellen was with her parents [Peter and Betty] in Rumworth in 1851. > Richard and Ellen married on 2 Jan 1854 at Deane Parish Church and this > time > their name is spelt WELCH. > I have a copy of their son / my gt grandfather Peter's birth certificate. > He was born on 5/9/1856 in Chew Moor, Rumworth and on his birth the name > in > now WALSH. > > It is after this that it all goes wrong. I cannot find Richard or Ellen on > the 1861 with any of the spelling variations. Their children William, > Peter > and Mary are staying with their grand parents William and Mary -now WALSH > who have now moved from Lostock to Brackley St Farnworth. > > In 1871 the 3 children are still living with their grand parents in > Brackley St, Farnworth and I can still find no trace of Richard. I have > however found Ellen who is back living with her parents in Chew Moor > Lostock > and is shown as Ellen WALSH and is married > > In 1881 again I can find no trace of Richard but Ellen Walsh is now living > in Rumworth on Bella St and is shown as widowed. She is the head of the > house and has a couple of people boarding with her.Their son / my Gt > grandfather Peter has now married and is living with his wife Mary Louise, > my gt grandmother, on Morris Green Lane. I cannot find a reasonable match > for the other 2 siblings William and Mary on any of the 1881 and later > census and will still keep looking. > > However it is the fact that I can't find either Richard or Ellen on the > 1861 > and only Ellen on the1871 and on both census all their children are with > their grandparents that seems very strange. It's as though the children > were > brought up by the grandparents as I have never found anything to show them > living with the parents > I wonder where Richard and Ellen were? > I have found Ellen on the 1891 and the1901 census where again she has > boarders living with her. I have never found Richard on a census other > that > the 1851 with his parents. Has anyone any ideas on the best areas for me > to > research that would help fill the gaps. > > Kind regards > Linda Hindley > > researching Walsh, Roscoe, Lobb, Bullough, Ramwell Whitworth, Heywood, > Smith, Bolton,Vose , Raby, Ormrod, Makinson and Calderley > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx