Thanks Valerie and Martin I received some help yesterday (off list) from Charlotte Ryan. She had found both of the families that were named on the certificates. Joseph and Elizabeth on the 1851 living at White Street in Hulme. Yes Martin, Joseph was a pattern card maker. No Charles. Joseph and Ann on the 1841 living at Lombard Street, Manchester. Joseph was a porter. Charles had not yet been born. She had tried hard but couldn't find either family on any other census. I would have liked to have found Joseph and Ann on the 1851. She found a death registered for Charles Warburton June Quarter 1847 Chorlton. I'll send for this certificate. Thanks again Barry Bain Martin Briscoe wrote: > There is a Joseph & Elizabeth WARBURTON in Hulme in 1851 - are they one of > the set of parents. They don't have a child aged 4 so is there a Charles > that died between 1846 and 1851? That would eliminate one birth if there > was. Joseph is a Pattern Card Maker, does that fit with the first Birth > Certificate. Living at 38 White Street. > > > >