In a message dated 14/04/2006 22:20:31 GMT Daylight Time, KILCOYELS@aol.com writes:Hi Hi I have already sent this message before. De id you not recieve it? In the 1881 census there is a George McGOWAN age 33 born 1848 in Manchester. He was a coal miner, and living at 4 Blackledge Street, Rumworth with his wife Harriet age 31, Sarah age 6, James age 4, Jonathan age 3 and Ralph age 1. The children were born in Middle Hulton. I hope this is your family. Regards Jacqui Kilcoyne ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb

Hi Jeff, I'd already done a very extensive search of the 1861 census, using approximate spellings and dates before I replied, which is why I eventually found James. So I'm afraid I've drawn a complete blank. I think Anne found the same situation. It could just be that he was simply missed out of the census, of course. It's not at all rare for people just to be missed - and for others to appear more than once at different addresses. It all depends who was where when the enumerator called - and how often he called. A certain amount of manipulation is always possible if there's a motive, of course. David Frost, for example just happened to find Nelson Mandela staying at his house on the night of the 2001 census. "Oh well, I suppose I'll just have to put him down on the form then..." Sorry I can't be more helpful with this one. I've put this back to the list in case anyone else can find anything for you. Best wishes Rgds, Bob Thornley, Bolton From: Jeffery McGowen To: bob@thornleysystems.co.uk Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 10:32 AM Subject: 1861 Census Bob Thornley, George McGowen, (my gt-grandad) was the only one that i have traced todate where the age is proved to be correct, George McGowen. Born 1848 in Hulme, Manchester, listed in 1851 Census Aged 3 years old. George McGowen. Died 1896 in Bolton, Lancashire listed in 1891 Census, Died aged 48 years of age. Age at Death = 48 He was 6 years old when he walked it to Cheqerbent, in 1854 and was living at the Red Lion cottages He was 22 years old when he got married in 1874 and moved on to Daubhill-Prescott Street But where was he living in in the 1861 Census, aged 12 years old? That is the burning question that has haunted our family all these years. Could please check the 1861 Census for me, as i have recently head that parts of the 1861 census were missing for a long time. I would really appreciate it if you could. Jeff McGowen

In a message dated 14/04/2006 16:20:32 GMT Daylight Time, pne.anne@ntlworld.com writes: Can anyone help me solve this query about my Great Grandad? George > McGowen was listed in the 1851 Census as being Hi In the 1881 census there is a George McGOWAN age 33 born 1848 in Manchester. He was a coal miner, and living at 4 Blackledge Street, Rumworth with his wife Harriet age 31, Sarah age 6, James age 4, Jonathan age 3 and Ralph age 1. The children were born in Middle Hulton. I hope this is your family. Regards Jacqui Kilcoyne

Hello Jeffrey, I have had a good look for George in 1861, but I can't find him. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffery McGowen" <gnasher49@yahoo.co.uk> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Query with the 1861 Census > Can anyone help me solve this query about my Great Grandad? George > McGowen was listed in the 1851 Census as being born in 1848, and also aged > 3 years old in the Hulme census in Manchester. By family tales he walked > it to Westhoughton Nr Bolton, (also known as Cheqerbent) aged 6 years old) > to be an Apprentice Pit Boy. He was also listed in the 1871 Census in > Bolton as being 22 years old, single, and living at the same address, in > Westhoughton. He then married a local woman named Harriet Crompton from > the Daubhill, Rumworth, and the rest is history. > But the query is where was he living in the 1861 Census (aged 12)? He > walked it to Westhoughton or Cheqerbent from Hulme, Manchester and was > living at the following addrress- > > Cottages at the side of the > Red Lion Public House, > 4 Lane Ends > Nr, Bolton > Lancshire > > He is listed in in the 1871 Census as aged 22 years and living at the > same address, but where was he living in the 1861 census? Could you > please check your records, to solve this age old mystery. > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To switch from one mode to the other, unsubscribe from one and then > subscribe to the other. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

If you don't get a better response; the death indexes for England & Wales are on line here http://www.ancestry.com/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx To check a ten year period would usually take about 30 minutes to 40 minutes with a broadband connection. I would fancy using dial up for these pages though. Good Luck Antony Lambert; the Certificate Man. Certificates in 5 Days see: http://www.certificates.fsnet.co.uk/certificates.htm

Thank you, Antony! This is a great place to start looking. I just found my mother-in-law's death registration!! Will have to wait to find ol' Robert! Again, thank you!! Connie Antony Lambert <antonylambert@certificates.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: If you don't get a better response; the death indexes for England & Wales are on line here http://www.ancestry.com/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx To check a ten year period would usually take about 30 minutes to 40 minutes with a broadband connection. I would fancy using dial up for these pages though. Good Luck Antony Lambert; the Certificate Man. Certificates in 5 Days see: http://www.certificates.fsnet.co.uk/certificates.htm ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Hi Jeffrey, Possibly this is just a coincidence, but I wonder if you've noticed: RG9-2810-115-4 16 Downs Row, Over Hulton, James McGowan, lodger, unmarried, 18, carpenter at a colliery, born Manchester. Incidentally, you said "Westhoughton Nr Bolton, (also known as Cheqerbent)", so just in case there might be any doubt, Chequerbent is in fact a village in the town of Westhoughton. Rgds, Bob Thornley, Bolton > From: "Jeffery McGowen" <gnasher49@yahoo.co.uk> > George McGowen was listed in the 1851 Census as being born in > 1848

Ancestry must have a mistranscription as I did not find them on a quick search - the surname seems to be spelt with a "w". 36 Reservoir Street John GREGORY H M 52 Park Labourer Bolton Ann GREGORY W M 49 - Bolton Mark GREGORY S S 30 Corporation Labourer / Road Lab Little Hulton Eliza GREGORY D S 25 Cotton Card Room Hand Farnworth Susannah GREGORY D S 20 Cotton Card Room Hand Bolton Joseph CAWDERLEY Adopted Son S 8 - Bolton RG13/3624 Folio 153 Page 42 Martin Briscoe Fort William M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS > -----Original Message----- > From: mlfhs-bounces@sentinel.mcc.ac.uk > [mailto:mlfhs-bounces@sentinel.mcc.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Joan Bridges > Sent: 14 April 2006 13:57 > To: mlfhs@sentinel.mcc.ac.uk > Subject: MLFHS: 1901 Bolton > > I would be grateful if SKS could check the 1901 for me please. > Joseph Calderley, Age 8 Adopted Son of John Gregory of 36, > Reservoir St. Bolton. > I would like to know who else was in the household.

Can anyone help me solve this query about my Great Grandad? George McGowen was listed in the 1851 Census as being born in 1848, and also aged 3 years old in the Hulme census in Manchester. By family tales he walked it to Westhoughton Nr Bolton, (also known as Cheqerbent) aged 6 years old) to be an Apprentice Pit Boy. He was also listed in the 1871 Census in Bolton as being 22 years old, single, and living at the same address, in Westhoughton. He then married a local woman named Harriet Crompton from the Daubhill, Rumworth, and the rest is history. But the query is where was he living in the 1861 Census (aged 12)? He walked it to Westhoughton or Cheqerbent from Hulme, Manchester and was living at the following addrress- Cottages at the side of the Red Lion Public House, 4 Lane Ends Nr, Bolton Lancshire He is listed in in the 1871 Census as aged 22 years and living at the same address, but where was he living in the 1861 census? Could you please check your records, to solve this age old mystery.

Hi, I'm new to this list. I am an American (who has never been to England) and my husband is a Brit. My husband's grandfather was Robert Ruffley, Esq., the last squire of Walkden. According to the Censuses for UK (1891 & 1901), he was born in Farnworth ca. 1864 (Emma was born ca. 1863 in Little Hulton - her parents were Robert Pemberton and Mary C. Pemberton). In addition, Robert Ruffley, Esq. owned 750 row houses in Walkden and bought furniture for the tenants of them. My husband (born in the early 1930's) remembers going to his house after church on Sundays and his grandfather playing the organ. As my husband's parents separated when he was young, he doesn't remember seeing his grandfather after that and doesn't know when/where he died and was buried. I am presuming that it was probably just before the outbreak of WWII (1939) and 1950. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find him (or his wife, Emma) on any internet death indices for UK. My husband doesn't ever remember seeing Emma Ruffley so, presumably, she may have died prior to 1935. If someone is familiar with the churches in the area, would it be possible to find Robert and Emma's death and burial places and let me know? I haven't any idea how large a job this might be but it would be ever so greatly appreciated! Thank you for your kind attention to my request. Best regards, Connie Ruffley (nee Sloan) California, USA

Hi James, As far as I'm aware it was always the Shropshire Light Infantry even though he came from Bolton, although his brother John was in the East Lancs. He entered in May 1915. We have bought his medal card from the National Archives, which shows the Victory, British and Star medals (believe they were called `Pip Squeak and Wilfred` and he named his only son, born after the war, Wilfred). His brother John has his medals. Best Wishes, Barbara

Hi Anne, Thank-you so much for the inquest details for Ivy's twin Herbert. Thank goodness it wasn't as gruesome as Ivy's which described in detail what my grandma found when she was called from work at Sharman's Brewery. What a huge burden for that eleven year old to live with for the rest of her life. The jury really questioned whether the two year old twins could lift a jug containing boiler composition, pour themselves a drink, then put the container back on the shelf. Ivy was my grandma's only daughter from seven children. I was given her name as my middle name. I would have preferred Evelyn though which was Ivy's first name. By the way, Ivy's inquest was later in January than I first reported. Again, many thanks Anne Pat

Hi Barbara, Can you tell me which regiment William Giller served with in Russia 1918 to 1920. This action was called the War of Intervention , it consisted of many allied troops ,British ,American, French, Italian, and Japanese. My father also served with the 17th Battalion Kings Liverpool regt in Northern Russia 1918 to late 1919. Most of the action involving European troops took place south of Archangel, northern Siberia. Japanese troops being mainly base in the area around Valavistok Eastern Russia Regards JR ----- Original Message ----- From: "BARBARA WINDER" <barbara@wonderwinder.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] GILLER- probably from Penwortham- in Bolton from around 1860. > My husband Nigel is the grandson of WILLIAM GILLER and EMILY BASNETT. William was a cotton spinner, born and died in Bolton 1892-1969. He had an interesting War (both) record, going through the 1914-18 war and ending on the Russian front so not returning till 1920. He was a gunner guarding Manchester Airport in the second. His nearest brother John (born 1896) went to war with him and took up the family business of hairdressing. They were the last of eight children begun with Fanny in 1878 and with only one other boy, George born 1889. > William's father was also William born in 1856 who married AGNES MANN at Bolton register Office in 1878. He was a hairdresser and the family business was at 117 Blackburn Road Bolton. > I think William's father was George born around 1801 in Penwortham. He seems to have died in Bolton in 1889 and was a bed quilt weaver. I think George married twice, once to Betty born 1802 Penwortham, and then to Mary (possibly Wilson or Hesketh). She had a son John Wilson who lived with them. He had two daughters (Margaret and Elizabeth) as well. > I believe his father may have been another George who married Elizabeth but am by no means certain. > Anything you can tell me about your knowledge of the family would be helpful. > Best Wishes, > Barbara > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > >

Hi Barbara, Can you tell me more about your GILLER family please? Helen MCNAMARA NZ

Hi Ladies, Just a suggestion but have you tried looking under BEAN? I have a Nancy Bean in my tree who has shown alternately as Ann or Nancy Bane and Nancy Bains. Dom pneanne <pne.anne@ntlworld.com> wrote: Hi Joan, I have had another look for any Bains born in 1892 Bolton -/+ 5 years. I have also looked for Mary Ellen and Mary E. I have found a Mary E. Duxbury living at 248 Weston Street. She was the Step d. of George Frankland. His wife was Emma. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Bridges" To: Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:49 PM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] BAIN 1901 --------------------------------- Yahoo! 360&deg; NEW – Your one place to blog, create, publish & share!

My husband Nigel is the grandson of WILLIAM GILLER and EMILY BASNETT. William was a cotton spinner, born and died in Bolton 1892-1969. He had an interesting War (both) record, going through the 1914-18 war and ending on the Russian front so not returning till 1920. He was a gunner guarding Manchester Airport in the second. His nearest brother John (born 1896) went to war with him and took up the family business of hairdressing. They were the last of eight children begun with Fanny in 1878 and with only one other boy, George born 1889. William's father was also William born in 1856 who married AGNES MANN at Bolton register Office in 1878. He was a hairdresser and the family business was at 117 Blackburn Road Bolton. I think William's father was George born around 1801 in Penwortham. He seems to have died in Bolton in 1889 and was a bed quilt weaver. I think George married twice, once to Betty born 1802 Penwortham, and then to Mary (possibly Wilson or Hesketh). She had a son John Wilson who lived with them. He had two daughters (Margaret and Elizabeth) as well. I believe his father may have been another George who married Elizabeth but am by no means certain. Anything you can tell me about your knowledge of the family would be helpful. Best Wishes, Barbara

Sorry listers previous request was a bit short on detail. could sks look up BEN or whatever for inquest report on death of grandfather, Joseph Walker, dod 16/08/1954? address would have been iether c/o Hospital or Broad'oth Lane all responses appreciated. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

could sks look up BEn or whatever for death of grandfather, Joseph Walker, dod 16/08/1954 _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

Hi Pat, I have been to the library today to look up the inquest report for you. I found this on the 9th February, 1917 in the Bolton Journal and Guardian. Twins Poisoning Tragedy. Twin children, Ivy and Herbert Cross, 8 Nottingham Street, were poisoned in September last by drinking some boiler compostion which the mother had obtained from her work to get rid of the mice. The girl died on January 17th and at the inquest returned a verdict of 'Death from misadventure.' The boy died on Wednesday, and the Borough Coroner (Mr. J. Fearnley) held an enquiry at St. Barnabas' School yesterday. The father Petty Officer Herbert Cross, was present at the enquiry. It was stated that the mother went to her work on September 28th at 1 p.m. leaving the children in the house in charge of a neighbour. She was sent for later, and on going into the back kitchen, she found two gill pots with something in them, which she recognised as boiled composition. Zela Wray, aged 11, was left in charge of the children by her mother, and giving evidence, persisted in her previous statement that she did not give the children any of the composition. Pressed by the Coroner she stated that she did not give the children anything out of the bottle, but she gave them a drink of water. The jury, after much deliberation, returned a verdict similar to that in the previous case. Kind regards, Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "pihough" <pihough@rogers.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 12:47 AM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Inquest help > Hi everyone, > In December 1916 and February 1917, the two and a half year old twins of > my grandparents died as a result of drinking boiler fluid the previous > September. An inquest was held after the death of their daughter Ivy > CROSS and was reported in the Bolton Journal and Guardian on Friday, > January 1st. 1917. I have just discovered that there was a separate > inquest on Ivy's brother Herbert Cross on February 8th 1817, two days > after his death. > > I would greatly appreciate it if someone could check the Bolton Journal > and Guardian around this time to see if this second inquest was reported. > I believe that the Bolton Journal and Guardian was published each Friday. > My grandparents were Isabella and Herbert Cross although only the names > Ivy and the twins babysitters were included in the report. > Thank-you > Pat > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To switch from one mode to the other, unsubscribe from one and then > subscribe to the other. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

It also occurs to me that I haven't really given you the families I'm interested in in Bolton. They are as follows:- GILLER- probably from Penwortham- in Bolton from around 1860. WINDER- from Wyresdale, in Bolton from 1812 with innkeeping and painting connections. BODDY -from Bury from 1860 but before that Mileham, Norfolk. BASNETT- from Chester originally- in Bolton from 1897 with LEWIS stepfamily, a shoemaker originally from Wales. In 1901 census in Bolton as LEWIS but married as BASNETT. Hope that rings some bells. Barbara