Thanks Pete With my ancestors marrying at Bolton Parish Church, I thought Smith Street must be nearby in the town centre of Bolton and Martin & Paul on the list have very kindly pointed me in the direction of Folds Road area which makes good sense. Thanks for your input all the same but I dont think it is the same street. On a second point, I have Hulme's in my family dating back to early 1800's living in Blackrod, Nr Bolton, whether there is a connection here to yours I need to do a bit more digging ??? Kind regards Andrea

Hi Martin & Paul Thank you very much for all your help on this on. It really is appreciated. Kind regards Andrea

Hi Pete, My family lived at Toppings in 1841, 1851 and 1861. The Toppings area is now part of Bromley Cross, although when my family lived there it was shown as Turton. I agree that our families probably knew each other. I think the address 'Volunteer', would indicate that the addresses were near to the Volunteer, probably in the same row, not at the actual pub. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Volunteer, Turton > Thanks Anne, I was confused by this as it sounds like a pub but there are > three families there with a total of 12 children between them plus two > servants! I could understand a pub with a couple of single lodgers but > this seemed odd. There's the landlord and family, my family with father > whose a Provisions Dealer and another family whose head is a cotton > bleacher. > > It's interesting to think that my gt. gt. grandfather Thomas Fielding, > would probably have known yours, Amos Howarth as they'd have been around > the same pub and area at the same time (Thomas died in 1862, after the > 1861 census and his family moved to Toppings, where we find them in 1871). > Wonder what they'd have made of our meeting by email 150 years on! > > Cheers, Pete Hulme > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/338 - Release Date: 12/05/2006 > >

Oh boy, there's a lot to think about here, thanks Anne! The Brindle family is definitely the same group, and you've got to think that the James Hulme is the same person in both. His age jumps from 10 to 23 in 10 years, but then Abraham Brindle jumps from 2 to 14! The Alice Butterworth is really odd as, if it's the same person, she jumps from 40 to 66!! Even allowing for rounding down in 1841, she still jumps from 44 to 66! Now, if we assume that this is the right James (he is born in Halliwell) then he's a bit older than he should be in 1841 and much older in 1851, still possible though. I've always wondered if he was orphaned and didn't know his real age, given the way it varies on different occasions. The illegitimacy idea also works and he may have made up his father's name when he married, he certainly wasn't living with his father in the 1861 census but was a lodger in the same house as the woman he went on to marry in 1862. I'd never thought about the idea of a made up father's name. A good question is why this James was living with the Brindles in 1841 and 1851. I think he'd have to be family, though he is shown as "visitor" in 1851. Maybe his mother was a Butterworth, sister to Mary Brindle (nee Butterworth) and his father was James Hulme. If the mother (or both parents) died you might find the child with the mother's sister, especially as her mother was also living with her. I think that's a possible idea? I did wonder if Mary Butterworth was married to the elder James Hulme and they had a son, James the younger, James the elder then died or left and Mary married George Brindle. George and Mary's eldest child, Abraham is 8 to 10 years younger than James Hulme, so this is possible, but then I'd expect him to be "stepson" not "visitor" in 1851. More questions than answers, which is how it always seems to go with James! Thanks for the help Anne, this is all new information and is at least giving me something to work on, I'm really quite stuck at the moment! Cheers, Pete

________________________________ From: Pete Hulme Sent: Sat 13/05/2006 21:34 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] James Hulme Hi Valerie, thanks for that. There are lots of Hulme's in Bolton, as I expect you know. Trying to nail the one from whom I'm descended is proving quite a challenge, especially as his birth date seems variable! The Hulme's I'm looking for would also have been Methodists, as I know that Thomas, the son of the James I'm looking at was married in a Wesleyan Methodist ceremony, but James, the person I'm researching was married in a Catholic church (St Maries Chapel) Just for clarity, I've no reason to think that my Hulme's were at Turton / Egerton, all I know is that James gives Haliwell as his birth place. It's my Fielding and Middleton lines that lead through Turton. At the same time, there are Hulme's in Turton in 1861 and it could be my family. Cheers, Pete PS. Nice Website!

I'm not sure, Bromley Cross is near Turton, but it's not the same place. Maybe someone who knows the area will know, otherwise I'll try to find out Cheers, Pete

Thanks Anne, I was confused by this as it sounds like a pub but there are three families there with a total of 12 children between them plus two servants! I could understand a pub with a couple of single lodgers but this seemed odd. There's the landlord and family, my family with father whose a Provisions Dealer and another family whose head is a cotton bleacher. It's interesting to think that my gt. gt. grandfather Thomas Fielding, would probably have known yours, Amos Howarth as they'd have been around the same pub and area at the same time (Thomas died in 1862, after the 1861 census and his family moved to Toppings, where we find them in 1871). Wonder what they'd have made of our meeting by email 150 years on! Cheers, Pete Hulme

Hi Pete, I knew a James and Florence Hulme who lived in Bromley Cross, and who owned some cottages on Darwen Road quite close to the Volunteer. Unfortunately both of them died some years ago, though their son still lives in the area. James and Florence were methodists, and attended Birtenshaw Methodist, Bromley Cross. Both are buried at Walmsley Chapel, Egerton. As for the Volunteer, this has been bought by an Asian gentleman with the idea of turning it into an Indian restaurant. The sign has been removed, and as Anne says, the windows boarded up. I think it a great shame that the pub should lose its distinctive name after well over 150 years. Valerie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 12:20 PM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Introduction > My name is Pete Hulme and I was born and brought up in Bolton, though I > now live near Portsmouth in Hampshire. I've been researching my genealogy > since my mother died three years ago, though my efforts have been a bit > patchy. My main interests are in HULME (obviously), FIELDING (my mother), > WHITLOW (my father's mother) and WHITTAKER (my mother's mother) though > I've been actively chasing Middleton and Stackhouse from my mother's side > and Atkinson from my father's > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 11/05/2006

Hi Andrea Smith St was off Folds Road. The map below shows its position:- http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=372213&y=409728&z=2 The arrow show its approximate position as it ran from Folds Road to Turner St. I have c1920 map that shows the area much as it would have been in the period of interest. I can send it off list if you would like. Regards, Paul Dixon Carrollton, Texas --- Andreafinney@aol.com wrote: > Hi All > > Does anyone know where Smith Street, was in Bolton in 1842 > I have a feeling it might be near to Bolton Parish Church , but I am unsure. > Hope anyone can help. > > PS The website is great Valarie, keep up the good work. > Regards > Andrea __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi All Does anyone know where Smith Street, was in Bolton in 1842 I have a feeling it might be near to Bolton Parish Church , but I am unsure. Hope anyone can help. PS The website is great Valarie, keep up the good work. Regards Andrea

Hi Pete, I don't know if I am on the right track here, but I have found a James Hulme on the 1841 and 1851 Censuses, who could be your James. I have checked all the James Hulmes on the 1841 and 1851 Census and none of them, who are in the Bolton area have a father James. I have found during my own research that sometimes, people make up a father's name on the marriage certificate if they are illegitimate. I am not saying that your James was illegitimate, but I have found one who could be. 1841 Cross Street, Little Bolton. (I have looked on the map and there was a Cross Street at Toppings, which was near the Volunteer Pub) George Brindle 25 Cotton Spinner Born in County Mary Brindle 25 Born in County Abraham Brindle 2 Born in County Alice Butterworth 40 F.S. Born in County JAMES HULME 10 Cotton Reeler Born in County There was also another Hulme family living in Cross Street in 1841. Thomas Hulme 25 Cotton Spinner Born in County (I don't know if they are James' (above) parents, although they could be about 19 when he was born) Ann Hulme 25 Born in County Margaret Hulme 3 Born in County Catherine Hulme 6 months Born in County. 1851 Cross Street George Brindle head marr. 35 Spinner Little Bolton Mary Brindle wife 34 Reeler Halliwell Abraham Brindle son 14 Piecer Little Bolton Hannah Brindle d. 6 Little Bolton Mary Jane Brindle d. 4 Little Bolton Alice Butterworth mothr-in-law 66 Breightmet JAMES HULME visitor un. 23 Stripper Cotton Mill, Halliwell. (This census shows James born in Halliwell. I thought Mary could have been his mother, but the mother-in-law is shown as Butterworth). What do you think? Kind regards, Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:38 AM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] James Hulme c. 1835 > Hi, I'm hoping somebody here can help me solve a mystery with my family > tree, please? I've traced my line back to a James Hulme who was born in > Bolton (Halliwell) about 1835 but I'm now stuck. James married Elizabeth > Kay on 2nd August 1862 in Bolton (she was born in Manchester) and they had > one son, Thomas on 27th December 1866. > > My problem is that I can't find the birth or anything between then and the > 1861 census. I know that James' father's name was also James, because it's > on his marriage certificate but I don't know his mother's name. I believe > the father was still alive when the son married in 1862 because the wife's > father is noted as "deceased" but the husband's isn't. I can't seem to > find the James + James + mother in the 1851 or 1841 census. I'm pretty > sure it would be Bolton because the birth is Bolton and everything I have > from 1861 on is Bolton, but it's possible they moved away and back. > > James' age is a bit variable. In 1861 he claims to be 29 and born in > Halliwell; on his marriage in 1862, he's still 29; in 1871 he's 35 and > born Bolton; in 1881 he's 45 and born Halliwell and in 1891 he's 51 and > born Bolton. It's definitely the right family because of the James from > Bolton and Elizabeth (Kay) from Manchester, but the age is a mystery. > > Can anyone help me with a guide to this family from 1851 or 1841, or even > to push the line back earlier. I'm pretty much stumped as to what to do > next, and it's not helped by being quite a common name. > > Any suggestions would be most welcome? > > Thanks, Pete Hulme > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/338 - Release Date: 12/05/2006 > >

The picture is the Volunteer, Bromley Cross - is it the same one? Martin Briscoe Fort William M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS -----Original Message----- From: Martin Briscoe [mailto:mbriscoe@zetnet.co.uk] Sent: 13 May 2006 13:29 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Volunteer, Turton I have a picture of the Volunteer in a booklet by the Turton Local History Society.

I have a picture of the Volunteer in a booklet by the Turton Local History Society. Martin Briscoe Fort William M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS -----Original Message----- From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] Sent: 13 May 2006 13:18 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Volunteer, Turton Hi Pete, The Volunteer is a pub. It is still there, but was boarded up when we went past a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if they are doing it up again. This pub was my gt. gt. grandfather Amos Howarth's local. He visited it on the night he died in 1876. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:28 AM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Volunteer, Turton > In the 1861 census, one of my families address' is listed as "Volunteer" > in Turton. To my modern ear it sounds like it could have been a pub, but > there's more than one household there. My ancestor there was Tomas > Fielding, listed as a Provisions Dealer, not a publican.

Hi Karen, I actually have two sets of Atkinsons in my tree! One is from Bolton and starts with Emma Atkinson, born 1879 and married to John Edward Whitlow on 8th December 1900, she died in 1917, while her husband was away at war, and left my grandmother and her sister with her (Emma's) sister. Her parents were William Atkinson and Mary (nee Grimshaw). These might be a link but William was a cotton machine minder, not a brewer? The other Atkinsons are earlier, John Edward Whitlow (Emma's husband) had a father William whose mother was Martha Atkinson born in 1829. This family comes from Antrobus in Cheshire, or that area as far back as I have information (1710) Cheers, Pete Hulme

Hi Pete, The Volunteer is a pub. It is still there, but was boarded up when we went past a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if they are doing it up again. This pub was my gt. gt. grandfather Amos Howarth's local. He visited it on the night he died in 1876. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:28 AM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Volunteer, Turton > In the 1861 census, one of my families address' is listed as "Volunteer" > in Turton. To my modern ear it sounds like it could have been a pub, but > there's more than one household there. My ancestor there was Tomas > Fielding, listed as a Provisions Dealer, not a publican. > > Does anybody know what Volunteer was, was it just the names of a street > and does it still exist? > > Cheers, Pete Hulme > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To switch from one mode to the other, unsubscribe from one and then > subscribe to the other. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/338 - Release Date: 12/05/2006 > >

Hi everyone, I was pointed to this list by Martin Briscoe (thanks Martin) and have posted a couple of questions that have been troubling me. I thought it would be polite to briefly introduce myself and my interests. I've read through the back archive of the list, so I have a reasonable idea of how active you all are, though I haven't spotted anyone looking at my particular lines. My name is Pete Hulme and I was born and brought up in Bolton, though I now live near Portsmouth in Hampshire. I've been researching my genealogy since my mother died three years ago, though my efforts have been a bit patchy. My main interests are in HULME (obviously), FIELDING (my mother), WHITLOW (my father's mother) and WHITTAKER (my mother's mother) though I've been actively chasing Middleton and Stackhouse from my mother's side and Atkinson from my father's My current focus projects include trying to pick up my Hulme's in Bolton in first half of the 19th century (see my earlier post), working out which of two Thomas Middleton's in Dent at the end of the 18th century is my ancestor and trying to track my Whitlow line back from Whitley in Cheshire around the turn of the 18th century. Obviously I have lots of other lines "on the go" but these are my focus items. I'm more than happy to share any information that I have and I do have my tree up on Rootsweb if anyone wants it. I'm looking forward to participating in this lively community. Cheers, Pete Hulme

Hi, I'm hoping somebody here can help me solve a mystery with my family tree, please? I've traced my line back to a James Hulme who was born in Bolton (Halliwell) about 1835 but I'm now stuck. James married Elizabeth Kay on 2nd August 1862 in Bolton (she was born in Manchester) and they had one son, Thomas on 27th December 1866. My problem is that I can't find the birth or anything between then and the 1861 census. I know that James' father's name was also James, because it's on his marriage certificate but I don't know his mother's name. I believe the father was still alive when the son married in 1862 because the wife's father is noted as "deceased" but the husband's isn't. I can't seem to find the James + James + mother in the 1851 or 1841 census. I'm pretty sure it would be Bolton because the birth is Bolton and everything I have from 1861 on is Bolton, but it's possible they moved away and back. James' age is a bit variable. In 1861 he claims to be 29 and born in Halliwell; on his marriage in 1862, he's still 29; in 1871 he's 35 and born Bolton; in 1881 he's 45 and born Halliwell and in 1891 he's 51 and born Bolton. It's definitely the right family because of the James from Bolton and Elizabeth (Kay) from Manchester, but the age is a mystery. Can anyone help me with a guide to this family from 1851 or 1841, or even to push the line back earlier. I'm pretty much stumped as to what to do next, and it's not helped by being quite a common name. Any suggestions would be most welcome? Thanks, Pete Hulme

In the 1861 census, one of my families address' is listed as "Volunteer" in Turton. To my modern ear it sounds like it could have been a pub, but there's more than one household there. My ancestor there was Tomas Fielding, listed as a Provisions Dealer, not a publican. Does anybody know what Volunteer was, was it just the names of a street and does it still exist? Cheers, Pete Hulme

cant remember if i thanked you martin, so THANKS maggi >From: "Martin Briscoe" <mbriscoe@zetnet.co.uk> >Reply-To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com >To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Censuses 1811,21,31 >Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 20:26:46 +0100 > > >1811 >HUNT, Elice Noble Street >District 7 > > >1821 >HUNT, Ellis Noble St >3 >HUNT, Ann Stothill St >25 >HUNT, Isaac Pike Lane >2 >HUNT, John Pike Lane >2 >HUNT, Jos. John St >3 >HUNT, Richd. Bridgman St >26 > > >1831 >HUNT, Elizabeth Pikes Lane >19 >HUNT, Isaac 51 Taylor Brow >25 >HUNT, Jno Duncan Street >19 >HUNT, Mitchel 50, Bradshawgate >2 >HUNT, Rich.d. 25, Derby Street >17 >HUNT, Rich.d. Derby Street >17 >HUNT, S. Wigan Lane >1 > > >Martin Briscoe >Fort William >M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: marjorie featherstone [mailto:mfeathers63@hotmail.com] >Sent: 05 May 2006 17:19 >To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Censuses 1811,21,31 > >hi martin, >just jumping in here!!!! >can you see if there are any HUNTs listed ,,thats if you dont mind,? >PLEASE > regards maggi > > > >==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to >ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or >ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > >============================== >New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors >at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: >http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

I'll have a look when I next go to Bolton Archives - probably Tuesday. Valerie ----- Original Message ----- From: <Dellcrom@aol.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:17 AM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Crompton, T() http://pmsa.cch.kcl.ac.uk/MR/MR-BOL23.htm_ > (http://pmsa.cch.kcl.ac.uk/MR/MR-BOL23.htm) > > it mentions the memorial fund chaired by a T CROMPTON, the former > chairman > of the Operative Spinners' Association. > Can anyone tell me who he was? > > Derek Crompton > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/335 - Release Date: 09/05/2006