Sorry I have been away - what is BVRI Mag

Hi Pete, I have gone through the 1851 Census Index looking at all the James Brindles born about 1840 in Bolton and I couldn't see any who were not the 'son' of the household. I spotted a James Bindle (that is how it was transcribed). When I looked at the census he was James Brindle, 11 Scholar at Manchester Collegiate Cathedral, born Bolton. I wonder if this is the son of George Brindle and Mary, who is not at home on the 1851 Census? Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 12:43 PM Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME > HI Anne, I hadn't spotted the James Brindle in 1836, I wonder where he > was in 1851 and why they named him James if they already had James Hulme > living with them in 1841? > > I'm going to dig some more around the Butterworths, as far as I know, > Mary was their only child but I'm a little concerned about the age > change of Alice between 1841 and 1851, I'll see what I can find. > > I had seen the Elizabeth as married in 1861 and I was interested as the > mother's name on Thomas (their son's) birth certificate says "formerly > Kay" not "nee Kay". However their marriage certificate lists her as > spinster. I did notice that the marriage was "by licence" not banns, so > I will try to figure out how to get a copy of the licence to see if > that helps. > > As to the Thomas connection, I don't know who Elizabeth's father was. > Even if Kay was her birth name, there are several Elizabeth Kay births > in Manchester that it could be. I did look at the Thomas Hulme > possibility and there are three Anne's, born of Thomas that could be the > mother of 1830 James, again I'll look at it in more detail. > > Cheers, Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 30 May 2006 11:20 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME > > Hi Pete, > > Just a couple of things I have noticed. On the 1861 Census in Gaskell > Street, George and Mary Brindle have a son James aged 19, but he is not > shown with the family in Cross Street in 1851. > > Also, George's wife Mary Brindle (nee Butterworth) was born in > Halliwell, so > there is a Halliwell connection between her and the visitor James Hulme, > who > is living with them in 1841 and 1851. > > On the 1861 Census in Barn Street, where James Hulme is lodging with his > > wife to be, Elizabeth Kay, it shows Elizabeth as married. They named > their > son Thomas. Do you know if Thomas is the name of Elizabeth's father. > If > not, he could be the name of James Hulme's grandfather. Perhaps it > would be > an idea to go a generation back and find a Thomas Hulme whose daughter > was > the mother of James Hulme. > > I hope this makes sense. As you say, it is getting very complicated. > > Anne in Bolton. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> > To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 11:10 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME > > >> Hi Anne, >> >> The more we look at this, the more complex it becomes! Lets look at > the >> evidence so far;- >> >> 1. >> I think there is a strong chance that the James Hulme, living with the > >> Brindles in 1841 and 1851 is 'my' James, partly because we find 'my' > James >> and his family living ~ next door to the Brindles again in 1871 >> 2. >> Based on your study of the Bolton Baptisms, the only likely James > birth is >> the christening of the child of Ann Hulme in Jan 1830. There is no > other >> likely James born in Bolton anywhen in the 1830s >> 3. >> There is the interesting 'coincidence' of the Thomas Hulme (born > Chorley) >> and his wife living two doors from the Brindles when James is with > them >> 4. >> Assuming for a moment that the James at the Brindles is the right one > and >> he's the son of Ann Hulme, that doesn't mean he's the son of the > Dawson >> Lane Ann, though he could be. >> 5. >> Looking at Thomas Hulme, there's a baptism in Chorley on 1st October > 1815 >> that could be him, parents are William and Catherine Holme. >> 6. >> William and Catherine seem to have a daughter, Mary Ann Holmes > baptised >> Chorley 12 Dec 1813 and then have two other children Henry and James >> baptised at St. Peter's, Bolton on 24 October 1819 (both on the same > day) >> 7. >> BMD shows the death of an Ann Hulme in Bolton in the December quarter > of >> 1840 >> >> Now lots of bits of supposition and loose thoughts that aren't > grounded >> yet;- >> >> * Maybe James at the Brindles is the illegitimate son of Mary Ann, > sister >> of their neighbour, Thomas? >> * Maybe there is a Ann Hulme who died in 1840 and her son is with the >> Brindles? >> * Maybe both of the above are the same person? >> >> At the end of the day, I'm reluctant to give up on the Brindle's James > >> Hulme yet, but I'd be a LOT happier if I could link an Ann Hulme to > them >> somehow. I'll keep kicking over the trail and see what I can find, at > some >> level there MUST be an explanation as to why there is a James Hulme > living >> with the Brindles in 1841 and 1851, whether or not it's 'my' James >> >> Cheers, Pete Hulme >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== >> For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, > Westhoughton >> and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. >> >> ============================== >> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.3/350 - Release Date: > 28/05/2006 >> > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, > Westhoughton and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.4/351 - Release Date: 29/05/2006 > >

HI Anne, I hadn't spotted the James Brindle in 1836, I wonder where he was in 1851 and why they named him James if they already had James Hulme living with them in 1841? I'm going to dig some more around the Butterworths, as far as I know, Mary was their only child but I'm a little concerned about the age change of Alice between 1841 and 1851, I'll see what I can find. I had seen the Elizabeth as married in 1861 and I was interested as the mother's name on Thomas (their son's) birth certificate says "formerly Kay" not "nee Kay". However their marriage certificate lists her as spinster. I did notice that the marriage was "by licence" not banns, so I will try to figure out how to get a copy of the licence to see if that helps. As to the Thomas connection, I don't know who Elizabeth's father was. Even if Kay was her birth name, there are several Elizabeth Kay births in Manchester that it could be. I did look at the Thomas Hulme possibility and there are three Anne's, born of Thomas that could be the mother of 1830 James, again I'll look at it in more detail. Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] Sent: 30 May 2006 11:20 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME Hi Pete, Just a couple of things I have noticed. On the 1861 Census in Gaskell Street, George and Mary Brindle have a son James aged 19, but he is not shown with the family in Cross Street in 1851. Also, George's wife Mary Brindle (nee Butterworth) was born in Halliwell, so there is a Halliwell connection between her and the visitor James Hulme, who is living with them in 1841 and 1851. On the 1861 Census in Barn Street, where James Hulme is lodging with his wife to be, Elizabeth Kay, it shows Elizabeth as married. They named their son Thomas. Do you know if Thomas is the name of Elizabeth's father. If not, he could be the name of James Hulme's grandfather. Perhaps it would be an idea to go a generation back and find a Thomas Hulme whose daughter was the mother of James Hulme. I hope this makes sense. As you say, it is getting very complicated. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME > Hi Anne, > > The more we look at this, the more complex it becomes! Lets look at the > evidence so far;- > > 1. > I think there is a strong chance that the James Hulme, living with the > Brindles in 1841 and 1851 is 'my' James, partly because we find 'my' James > and his family living ~ next door to the Brindles again in 1871 > 2. > Based on your study of the Bolton Baptisms, the only likely James birth is > the christening of the child of Ann Hulme in Jan 1830. There is no other > likely James born in Bolton anywhen in the 1830s > 3. > There is the interesting 'coincidence' of the Thomas Hulme (born Chorley) > and his wife living two doors from the Brindles when James is with them > 4. > Assuming for a moment that the James at the Brindles is the right one and > he's the son of Ann Hulme, that doesn't mean he's the son of the Dawson > Lane Ann, though he could be. > 5. > Looking at Thomas Hulme, there's a baptism in Chorley on 1st October 1815 > that could be him, parents are William and Catherine Holme. > 6. > William and Catherine seem to have a daughter, Mary Ann Holmes baptised > Chorley 12 Dec 1813 and then have two other children Henry and James > baptised at St. Peter's, Bolton on 24 October 1819 (both on the same day) > 7. > BMD shows the death of an Ann Hulme in Bolton in the December quarter of > 1840 > > Now lots of bits of supposition and loose thoughts that aren't grounded > yet;- > > * Maybe James at the Brindles is the illegitimate son of Mary Ann, sister > of their neighbour, Thomas? > * Maybe there is a Ann Hulme who died in 1840 and her son is with the > Brindles? > * Maybe both of the above are the same person? > > At the end of the day, I'm reluctant to give up on the Brindle's James > Hulme yet, but I'd be a LOT happier if I could link an Ann Hulme to them > somehow. I'll keep kicking over the trail and see what I can find, at some > level there MUST be an explanation as to why there is a James Hulme living > with the Brindles in 1841 and 1851, whether or not it's 'my' James > > Cheers, Pete Hulme > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.3/350 - Release Date: 28/05/2006 > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Hi Pete, Just a couple of things I have noticed. On the 1861 Census in Gaskell Street, George and Mary Brindle have a son James aged 19, but he is not shown with the family in Cross Street in 1851. Also, George's wife Mary Brindle (nee Butterworth) was born in Halliwell, so there is a Halliwell connection between her and the visitor James Hulme, who is living with them in 1841 and 1851. On the 1861 Census in Barn Street, where James Hulme is lodging with his wife to be, Elizabeth Kay, it shows Elizabeth as married. They named their son Thomas. Do you know if Thomas is the name of Elizabeth's father. If not, he could be the name of James Hulme's grandfather. Perhaps it would be an idea to go a generation back and find a Thomas Hulme whose daughter was the mother of James Hulme. I hope this makes sense. As you say, it is getting very complicated. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME > Hi Anne, > > The more we look at this, the more complex it becomes! Lets look at the > evidence so far;- > > 1. > I think there is a strong chance that the James Hulme, living with the > Brindles in 1841 and 1851 is 'my' James, partly because we find 'my' James > and his family living ~ next door to the Brindles again in 1871 > 2. > Based on your study of the Bolton Baptisms, the only likely James birth is > the christening of the child of Ann Hulme in Jan 1830. There is no other > likely James born in Bolton anywhen in the 1830s > 3. > There is the interesting 'coincidence' of the Thomas Hulme (born Chorley) > and his wife living two doors from the Brindles when James is with them > 4. > Assuming for a moment that the James at the Brindles is the right one and > he's the son of Ann Hulme, that doesn't mean he's the son of the Dawson > Lane Ann, though he could be. > 5. > Looking at Thomas Hulme, there's a baptism in Chorley on 1st October 1815 > that could be him, parents are William and Catherine Holme. > 6. > William and Catherine seem to have a daughter, Mary Ann Holmes baptised > Chorley 12 Dec 1813 and then have two other children Henry and James > baptised at St. Peter's, Bolton on 24 October 1819 (both on the same day) > 7. > BMD shows the death of an Ann Hulme in Bolton in the December quarter of > 1840 > > Now lots of bits of supposition and loose thoughts that aren't grounded > yet;- > > * Maybe James at the Brindles is the illegitimate son of Mary Ann, sister > of their neighbour, Thomas? > * Maybe there is a Ann Hulme who died in 1840 and her son is with the > Brindles? > * Maybe both of the above are the same person? > > At the end of the day, I'm reluctant to give up on the Brindle's James > Hulme yet, but I'd be a LOT happier if I could link an Ann Hulme to them > somehow. I'll keep kicking over the trail and see what I can find, at some > level there MUST be an explanation as to why there is a James Hulme living > with the Brindles in 1841 and 1851, whether or not it's 'my' James > > Cheers, Pete Hulme > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.3/350 - Release Date: 28/05/2006 >

Hi Pete, I think that about sums it up. If I can think of anything else, I will let you know. Good luck, and let me know if you sort out the puzzle. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME > Hi Anne, > > The more we look at this, the more complex it becomes! Lets look at the > evidence so far;- > > 1. > I think there is a strong chance that the James Hulme, living with the > Brindles in 1841 and 1851 is 'my' James, partly because we find 'my' James > and his family living ~ next door to the Brindles again in 1871 > 2. > Based on your study of the Bolton Baptisms, the only likely James birth is > the christening of the child of Ann Hulme in Jan 1830. There is no other > likely James born in Bolton anywhen in the 1830s > 3. > There is the interesting 'coincidence' of the Thomas Hulme (born Chorley) > and his wife living two doors from the Brindles when James is with them > 4. > Assuming for a moment that the James at the Brindles is the right one and > he's the son of Ann Hulme, that doesn't mean he's the son of the Dawson > Lane Ann, though he could be. > 5. > Looking at Thomas Hulme, there's a baptism in Chorley on 1st October 1815 > that could be him, parents are William and Catherine Holme. > 6. > William and Catherine seem to have a daughter, Mary Ann Holmes baptised > Chorley 12 Dec 1813 and then have two other children Henry and James > baptised at St. Peter's, Bolton on 24 October 1819 (both on the same day) > 7. > BMD shows the death of an Ann Hulme in Bolton in the December quarter of > 1840 > > Now lots of bits of supposition and loose thoughts that aren't grounded > yet;- > > * Maybe James at the Brindles is the illegitimate son of Mary Ann, sister > of their neighbour, Thomas? > * Maybe there is a Ann Hulme who died in 1840 and her son is with the > Brindles? > * Maybe both of the above are the same person? > > At the end of the day, I'm reluctant to give up on the Brindle's James > Hulme yet, but I'd be a LOT happier if I could link an Ann Hulme to them > somehow. I'll keep kicking over the trail and see what I can find, at some > level there MUST be an explanation as to why there is a James Hulme living > with the Brindles in 1841 and 1851, whether or not it's 'my' James > > Cheers, Pete Hulme > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.3/350 - Release Date: 28/05/2006 >

Hi Would SKS going to Bolton Library please have a look for an article on the inquest held on 24 February 1893 for Peter WALSH. Thanks for your help Tina

Hello Martin, Sorry to join the Bandwagon as it were, but I have only just read the Email concerning Censuses 1811,21,31. Could I possibly ask if you have come across any BESWICK families. Kind Regards Helen

More pix in the Gallery at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~boltongenealogy/photogallery5.htm Surnames featured are Collinge, Thornley and Ferguson. Valerie

Hi Anne, The more we look at this, the more complex it becomes! Lets look at the evidence so far;- 1. I think there is a strong chance that the James Hulme, living with the Brindles in 1841 and 1851 is 'my' James, partly because we find 'my' James and his family living ~ next door to the Brindles again in 1871 2. Based on your study of the Bolton Baptisms, the only likely James birth is the christening of the child of Ann Hulme in Jan 1830. There is no other likely James born in Bolton anywhen in the 1830s 3. There is the interesting 'coincidence' of the Thomas Hulme (born Chorley) and his wife living two doors from the Brindles when James is with them 4. Assuming for a moment that the James at the Brindles is the right one and he's the son of Ann Hulme, that doesn't mean he's the son of the Dawson Lane Ann, though he could be. 5. Looking at Thomas Hulme, there's a baptism in Chorley on 1st October 1815 that could be him, parents are William and Catherine Holme. 6. William and Catherine seem to have a daughter, Mary Ann Holmes baptised Chorley 12 Dec 1813 and then have two other children Henry and James baptised at St. Peter's, Bolton on 24 October 1819 (both on the same day) 7. BMD shows the death of an Ann Hulme in Bolton in the December quarter of 1840 Now lots of bits of supposition and loose thoughts that aren't grounded yet;- * Maybe James at the Brindles is the illegitimate son of Mary Ann, sister of their neighbour, Thomas? * Maybe there is a Ann Hulme who died in 1840 and her son is with the Brindles? * Maybe both of the above are the same person? At the end of the day, I'm reluctant to give up on the Brindle's James Hulme yet, but I'd be a LOT happier if I could link an Ann Hulme to them somehow. I'll keep kicking over the trail and see what I can find, at some level there MUST be an explanation as to why there is a James Hulme living with the Brindles in 1841 and 1851, whether or not it's 'my' James Cheers, Pete Hulme

There is a message in LANCSGEN about the Lancashire Wills website. I have extracted the wills for Bolton area into an EXCEL, if anyone wants a copy then send me an Email DIRECT i.e. OFF LIST (the file is just about 800K at the moment). (The whole of Lancashire is 38MB as an ACCESS file!) Martin Briscoe Fort William M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS

Hi Pete, I think it is back to the drawing board with your James Hulme. I have checked the 1851 Census for Ann Hulme. She married John Rigby in the December Quarter 1846 Bolton. Dawson Lane John Rigby 34 Chorley Ann wife 35 Great Bolton William son 2 Little Bolton Alice d. 9 months L.B. Alice Hume 40 Unmarried sister-in-law Great Bolton James Hume 37 Brother-in-law Married Great Bolton Joseph Hume nepthew 14 Comb Maker Great Bolton 1861 Vernon Court Cellar, next to Dawson Lane John Rigby head 44 Chorley Ann wife 45 William son 12 Alice d. 10 James son 7 John son 5 George H. son 3 John Rigby and Ann Hulme have a son James, so do you think that Ann, if she is the mother of your James (and he is still alive), would have named another son James? One of my husband's families named a child with the same name as an earlier illegitimate child who was still alive, but I don't know if it would have happened in this case. What do you think? Anne in Bolton.

Hi Valerie, Sorry my mistake. I am not up with the geography odf Bolton. Could you please tell me what list I should put it on Regards Joy New Zealand. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie" <v.lirakis@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] FLETCHERS CONFECTIONERY > Hi Joy, > > Did you mean to send this message to the Bolton List, as it doesn't cover > the Lytham area? > > Valerie > > -----Original Message----- > From: JoyWarner [mailto:joyw@xtra.co.nz] > Sent: 27 May 2006 00:58 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] FLETCHERS CONFECTIONERY > > Hello All, > Does one of the kind people on the list have any information about > FLETCHERS CONFECTIONERY AND BAKERY. > I have an ELLEN FLETCHER living at 2 Clifton Lane, > Lytham. in 1891. > Any help would be appreciated. > Many Thanks > Joy Warner, > New Zealand. > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/06 > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To switch from one mode to the other, unsubscribe from one and then > subscribe to the other. > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/348 - Release Date: 25/05/2006 > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/06 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.3/350 - Release Date: 28/05/06

Hi, For my sins I volunteered to co-ordinate the task of preparing the death index of the Bolton RD for publication on the LancashireBMD site. Graham Holt is similarly taking care of the marriage index. Some 41,000 entries from the death index for the early years are there already and more are in the pipeline. The Bolton RO has a paper index comprising surname, forename, district code, volume and entry no. which is indexed in 2 or 3 year batches. That index has been turned into editable text files using smoke and mirrors and several people from the MLFHS have checked the text files against a scanned image of the original index. The index up to 1902 has been checked this way although the index from that date may be done in a different way. The paper index does not contain the age at death and as mentioned is indexed in 2 or 3 year batches. To make the data 'fit' with data from other ROs involves going through each volume and noting the age at death as well as the year changes to enable the entries to be credited to the correct year. This process can only be achieved at the Bolton RO and I am asking, therefore, if there are any people on the list who could spare a litle time on a fairly regular basis to help with this work. The SR is happy to accept a small team of people working in this manner on a pre-arranged basis as long as it does not affect the running of the office. People working in pairs are preferable and a laptop would be ideal but not essential. Please contact me if you feel you can help with the work at the Bolton RO. Cheers, Bob Winder

Hi Sandie, Following on from my last e-mail, I have found the death of Rose Ann Norton. She died in the December Quarter, 1897 Bolton, aged 48 years. She is the right age for your Rosa. If it is your Rosa, who married William Norton, it would be interesting to see if she was a spinster when she married, therefore, proving that James was a made up name on her daughter's wedding certificate. Kind regards, Anne in Bolton.

Hi Sandie, I was wondering if Rosa got married after Gertrude was born and after doing some research, I have found something interesting. I have found a marriage between a Rose Ann Shepherd in the June Quarter 1892 Bolton. The men on the same page were Nathanial Green (who I have ruled out) and William Norton. I have looked for William Norton on the 1901 Census. He is a widower living with three children, who could be his from his first marriage. The interesting part is that he is living at 4 Robert Street, which is the address that Rosa, Emily A. and Gertrude were living in 1891. 1901 4 Robert Street William Norton head Widr. 49 Liverpool James son 18 Bolton Maud d. 18 Bolton John 20 Bolton. What do you make of this? Kind regards, Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: <RevSandie@aol.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Emily Ann SHEPHERD > > Hi Anne, > > Thanks for taking the time to search for this frustrating family. I have > the Scottish 1881 on disk, so I have had a look but no go. I have to > conclude > that they simply weren't counted in the 1881 census, and I'm beginning to > think they appeared in Bolton in 1891 having been deposited by a passing > UFO! > Thanks though, > Kind regards > > Sandie > > In a message dated 27/05/06 16:28:16 GMT Daylight Time, > pne.anne@ntlworld.com writes: > > Hi Sandie, > > I have had a good look for Rosa, Emily and Gertrude in 1881 in England > and > Wales, but I can't find them. Do you think they could be in Scotland. > If > Rosa was a lace maker, she may have travelled to sell her wares. > > Anne in Bolton > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/2006 > >

Hi Joy, Did you mean to send this message to the Bolton List, as it doesn't cover the Lytham area? Valerie -----Original Message----- From: JoyWarner [mailto:joyw@xtra.co.nz] Sent: 27 May 2006 00:58 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] FLETCHERS CONFECTIONERY Hello All, Does one of the kind people on the list have any information about FLETCHERS CONFECTIONERY AND BAKERY. I have an ELLEN FLETCHER living at 2 Clifton Lane, Lytham. in 1891. Any help would be appreciated. Many Thanks Joy Warner, New Zealand. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/06 ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== To switch from one mode to the other, unsubscribe from one and then subscribe to the other. ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.1/348 - Release Date: 25/05/2006

Hi Sandie, Just to add more confusion to the equation, thought I would send this, although there is no sign of Emily or Gertrude. Please excuse this if you already have it. Valerie Household Record 1881 British Census Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability James Thomas SHEPPARD Head M Male 32 Northampton, England Engine Fitter Rosa SHEPPARD Wife M Female 27 Northampton, England ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling 20 Wheeler Street Census Place Maidstone, Kent, England Family History Library Film 1341222 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 0931 / 50 Page Number 2 -----Original Message----- From: RevSandie@aol.com [mailto:RevSandie@aol.com] Sent: 28 May 2006 15:31 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Emily Ann SHEPHERD Hi Anne, Thanks for taking the time to search for this frustrating family. I have the Scottish 1881 on disk, so I have had a look but no go. I have to conclude that they simply weren't counted in the 1881 census, Thanks though, Kind regards www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Hi Valerie, I have seen this one and was very tempted by it as the husband is called James, but it seems odd he is described as an engine fitter, when he was an ag. lab. on Emily's marriage cert. Also of course no Emily or Gertrude, as you say. Still, I continue to hold all these possibilities in tension, hoping I'll see the connection eventually :) Thanks for looking Sandie In a message dated 28/05/06 21:22:51 GMT Daylight Time, v.lirakis@ntlworld.com writes: Just to add more confusion to the equation, thought I would send this, although there is no sign of Emily or Gertrude. Please excuse this if you already have it. Valerie Household Record 1881 British Census Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability James Thomas SHEPPARD Head M Male 32 Northampton, England Engine Fitter Rosa SHEPPARD Wife M Female 27 Northampton, England

Anne you beauty!! What a great bit of lateral thinking. The address is a very big clue, and I will certainly be ordering that marriage cert. I'll let you know when I get it! I'm so grateful for the time you have spent on this, thanks so much Sandie In a message dated 28/05/06 22:41:33 GMT Daylight Time, pne.anne@ntlworld.com writes: I was wondering if Rosa got married after Gertrude was born and after doing some research, I have found something interesting. I have found a marriage between a Rose Ann Shepherd in the June Quarter 1892 Bolton. The men on the same page were Nathanial Green (who I have ruled out) and William Norton. I have looked for William Norton on the 1901 Census. He is a widower living with three children, who could be his from his first marriage. The interesting part is that he is living at 4 Robert Street, which is the address that Rosa, Emily A. and Gertrude were living in 1891. >Following on from my last e-mail, I have found the death of Rose Ann Norton. She died in >the December Quarter, 1897 Bolton, aged 48 years. She is the right age for your Rosa. >If it is your Rosa, who married William Norton, it would be interesting to see if she was a >spinster when she married, therefore, proving that James was a made up name on her >daughter's wedding certificate.

Hi, Thank you for your reply John was born abt 1855 and Married Eliza Fletcher. Thomas was a Pacing Case Maker According to the 1881 census their children were. Thomas age 9 William age 7 George age3 James. age 11. and lived at 25 COOPER sT. Little Bolton. Do they fit into you tree. Regards Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: "slongfield" <slongfield@execulink.com> To: "JoyWarner" <joyw@xtra.co.nz>; <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Horrocks > Hi! > I too have a Horrocks line from Bolton. Sarah Heyes (transcribed as HEYEN) > married Thomas Horrocks in 1910 in Bolton. My Grandmother, Amelia Heyes > witnessed the married. Sarah (Sally) had two children, according to my > father, Sissy and Lillian. Any connections??? > Sue > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/06 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.2/349 - Release Date: 26/05/06