In a message dated 04/06/2006 09:05:34 GMT Daylight Time, kathhale23@yahoo.co.uk writes: birth, it has the initials T.S.D. Does anyone know what this stands for please ? The place of birth reads 33,Derby Street and was in Great Bolton Hi I wonder if it could mean Total Shire District, which was a non-metropolitan district. These were sub-divisions of shire counties and a common type of district. This is just a guess but worth a thought. Jacqui Kilcoyne

I live in the US and am looking for only one possible record from the old St. Mary's in Heaton Norris, Stockport. Apparently the older records are kept at the record office, not the church. I was told that the Reference MF for St. Mary's christening and marriage records is 1/219-220. The office does not do research. If I ask an individual to do research, they usually don't accept credit cards, and I have not British sterling on hand to send. Can someone please suggest how I go about checking to at the record office to see if there was a baptismal record for John Spellman/Spelman who was born in the parish of St. Mary's in June 1870? (He might not have been baptized there, but he was not baptized at the other two churches in Stockport - St. Joseph's or Our Lady's.) Since the family was living for that year on a street that was in St. Mary's parish, I thought it would make sense to check those parish records for my grandfather. Any suggestions truly appreciated. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 7:01 AM Subject: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D Digest V06 #173

Hi listers, Just rejoined after being away for a while, so hope this is news. There seems to be some Bolton obituaries on ancestry.com -see http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/obit/?uk <http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/obit/?uk&dbid=8960> &dbid=8960 cheers, Sharon in Perth, Western Australia

Hi Valerie, Nice to hear from you. We could very well have gone to the same school I suppose, but you didn't give any details of your maiden name if you have married, or the schools you went to. Also it could depend on age too! My maiden name was Holden and I was known by my first name in those days - Mavis, born 1940. I went to St.Thomas C of E School, then Wolfenden Street Sec., transferred to Bolton Technical in the town, then moved to Warrington with my family in 1954, when my Dad changed his employment there. What are your details? Anouska ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie" <v.lirakis@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 1:39 PM Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] NEW TO LIST > Hi Anouska, > > Welcome to the Bolton List. I, too, was born in Halliwell, though sadly > none of your names connect. We may have a school in common though? > > Good luck with your research. > > Valerie > > -----Original Message----- > From: M.A.Reynolds [mailto:anouska.reynolds@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 01 June 2006 00:40 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] NEW TO LIST > > I was born Halliwell, Bolton, and my research covers the following names > and > > areas. > > > Anouska > Warrington, Cheshire > > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Hi Mag, Where have you looked for traces of Richard? If you have the marriage certificates of either of his children that would at least tell you if Richard was alive or dead. Valerie -----Original Message----- From: Margaret Horrocks [mailto:mags70@tesco.net] Sent: 01 June 2006 11:38 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] DRAPER Can anyone tell me what happened to Richard Draper born c1803 christened at Dean. Mag

Hi Anouska, Welcome to the Bolton List. I, too, was born in Halliwell, though sadly none of your names connect. We may have a school in common though? Good luck with your research. Valerie -----Original Message----- From: M.A.Reynolds [mailto:anouska.reynolds@ntlworld.com] Sent: 01 June 2006 00:40 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] NEW TO LIST I was born Halliwell, Bolton, and my research covers the following names and areas. Anouska Warrington, Cheshire

Hi Anouska, I have seen your name on other Genealogy sites but never connected you with Mavis Holden who went to Wolfenden. I think we were in the same class. I was then Pat Cross. Were you in Miss Crompton's class? If so, I have a photograph that I could share with you. I too left Wolfenden and went to Hayward Tech. I now live in Canada. Hope there is a connection. Pat

HI Jenny, This is a tougher question. I'd already seen the George Brindle = Mary Butterworth marriage, the Mary born to Abraham and Alice and the Abraham = Alice Kay, which all seems like a likely line, especially given the mother-in-law = Alice in the 1851 census, thank you. There don't seem to be any other children to Abraham and Alice that I can find in IGI, so that doesn't make the Hulme connection. Now the other links you suggest are all new information;- William Kay = Elizabeth Butterworth. I don't think Mary had a sister, if that's what you're suggesting? The Church connection is interesting as I do have ancestors from their but in a different line. Elizabeth Kay's birth is consistently Manchester in all the documents I have, so his probably isn't a link. The two Thompson = Butterworth marriages are Manchester, but again there's no evidence that the Elizabeth was related to Abraham, Alice and Mary, especially given that all their IGI entries are Bolton. Thanks for the ideas, the link between James Hulme and the Brindle / Butterworth's is driving me MAD! Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Walker [mailto:jenniferwalker@ntlworld.com] Sent: 01 June 2006 23:51 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS Looking at the census information given, and the marriage of George Brindle and Mary Butterworth. (Witness Thomas Thompson). What do you think of the following? There is a Mary Butterworth c 08 Jan 1817 St Peters Bolton le Moors (Abraham & Alice) Abraham Butterworth m Alice Kay 15 Apr 1816 St Peters Bolton. William Kay m Elizabeth Butterworth 03 Jan 1835 Church, Lancashire (Chapelry of Church) Thomas Thompson m Elizabeth Butterworth 1828 (IGI Pedigree resource file for Thomas Thompson c 06 Mar 1808 Manchester) Thomas Thompson m Elizabeth Butterworth 12 Feb 1828 Manchester Cathedral. Unable to find the connection with Hulme though. Jenny

Hi Jenny, thanks for that, I'll add it to the growing pile of evidence. Elizabeth gives her age as 26 in the 1861 census and then 27 at her marriage in 1862. In the 1871 census her age is 34 and in 1881 she's 44. In 1891 both Elizabeth and James have dropped a few years as she's now 50! Both James and Elizabeth seem to be a little unsure as to their actual ages throughout their lives which, coupled with their rather common names, makes them hard to trace. Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Walker [mailto:jenniferwalker@ntlworld.com] Sent: 01 June 2006 21:12 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1881 and 1891 CENSUSES Hi Pete I have come across a possible marriage for John Rigby & Ann Hulme, Bolton Dec Qtr 1846, Vol 21, pg 89 although there are a lot of other names on the page. Re: Elizabeth Kay - how old was she when she married James? Hope the above is of some use.

Looking at the census information given, and the marriage of George Brindle and Mary Butterworth. (Witness Thomas Thompson). What do you think of the following? There is a Mary Butterworth c 08 Jan 1817 St Peters Bolton le Moors (Abraham & Alice) Abraham Butterworth m Alice Kay 15 Apr 1816 St Peters Bolton. William Kay m Elizabeth Butterworth 03 Jan 1835 Church, Lancashire (Chapelry of Church) Thomas Thompson m Elizabeth Butterworth 1828 (IGI Pedigree resource file for Thomas Thompson c 06 Mar 1808 Manchester) Thomas Thompson m Elizabeth Butterworth 12 Feb 1828 Manchester Cathedral. Unable to find the connection with Hulme though. Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "pneanne" <pne.anne@ntlworld.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > Hi Pete, > > I have gone through the 1851 Census Index looking at all the James > Brindles born about 1840 in Bolton and I couldn't see any who were not the > 'son' of the household. > > I spotted a James Bindle (that is how it was transcribed). When I looked > at the census he was James Brindle, 11 Scholar at Manchester Collegiate > Cathedral, born Bolton. I wonder if this is the son of George Brindle and > Mary, who is not at home on the 1851 Census? > > Anne in Bolton. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> > To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 12:43 PM > Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME > > >> HI Anne, I hadn't spotted the James Brindle in 1836, I wonder where he >> was in 1851 and why they named him James if they already had James Hulme >> living with them in 1841? >> >> I'm going to dig some more around the Butterworths, as far as I know, >> Mary was their only child but I'm a little concerned about the age >> change of Alice between 1841 and 1851, I'll see what I can find. >> >> I had seen the Elizabeth as married in 1861 and I was interested as the >> mother's name on Thomas (their son's) birth certificate says "formerly >> Kay" not "nee Kay". However their marriage certificate lists her as >> spinster. I did notice that the marriage was "by licence" not banns, so >> I will try to figure out how to get a copy of the licence to see if >> that helps. >> >> As to the Thomas connection, I don't know who Elizabeth's father was. >> Even if Kay was her birth name, there are several Elizabeth Kay births >> in Manchester that it could be. I did look at the Thomas Hulme >> possibility and there are three Anne's, born of Thomas that could be the >> mother of 1830 James, again I'll look at it in more detail. >> >> Cheers, Pete >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] >> Sent: 30 May 2006 11:20 >> To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME >> >> Hi Pete, >> >> Just a couple of things I have noticed. On the 1861 Census in Gaskell >> Street, George and Mary Brindle have a son James aged 19, but he is not >> shown with the family in Cross Street in 1851. >> >> Also, George's wife Mary Brindle (nee Butterworth) was born in >> Halliwell, so >> there is a Halliwell connection between her and the visitor James Hulme, >> who >> is living with them in 1841 and 1851. >> >> On the 1861 Census in Barn Street, where James Hulme is lodging with his >> >> wife to be, Elizabeth Kay, it shows Elizabeth as married. They named >> their >> son Thomas. Do you know if Thomas is the name of Elizabeth's father. >> If >> not, he could be the name of James Hulme's grandfather. Perhaps it >> would be >> an idea to go a generation back and find a Thomas Hulme whose daughter >> was >> the mother of James Hulme. >> >> I hope this makes sense. As you say, it is getting very complicated. >> >> Anne in Bolton. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> >> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 11:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES HULME >> >> >>> Hi Anne, >>> >>> The more we look at this, the more complex it becomes! Lets look at >> the >>> evidence so far;- >>> >>> 1. >>> I think there is a strong chance that the James Hulme, living with the >> >>> Brindles in 1841 and 1851 is 'my' James, partly because we find 'my' >> James >>> and his family living ~ next door to the Brindles again in 1871 >>> 2. >>> Based on your study of the Bolton Baptisms, the only likely James >> birth is >>> the christening of the child of Ann Hulme in Jan 1830. There is no >> other >>> likely James born in Bolton anywhen in the 1830s >>> 3. >>> There is the interesting 'coincidence' of the Thomas Hulme (born >> Chorley) >>> and his wife living two doors from the Brindles when James is with >> them >>> 4. >>> Assuming for a moment that the James at the Brindles is the right one >> and >>> he's the son of Ann Hulme, that doesn't mean he's the son of the >> Dawson >>> Lane Ann, though he could be. >>> 5. >>> Looking at Thomas Hulme, there's a baptism in Chorley on 1st October >> 1815 >>> that could be him, parents are William and Catherine Holme. >>> 6. >>> William and Catherine seem to have a daughter, Mary Ann Holmes >> baptised >>> Chorley 12 Dec 1813 and then have two other children Henry and James >>> baptised at St. Peter's, Bolton on 24 October 1819 (both on the same >> day) >>> 7. >>> BMD shows the death of an Ann Hulme in Bolton in the December quarter >> of >>> 1840 >>> >>> Now lots of bits of supposition and loose thoughts that aren't >> grounded >>> yet;- >>> >>> * Maybe James at the Brindles is the illegitimate son of Mary Ann, >> sister >>> of their neighbour, Thomas? >>> * Maybe there is a Ann Hulme who died in 1840 and her son is with the >>> Brindles? >>> * Maybe both of the above are the same person? >>> >>> At the end of the day, I'm reluctant to give up on the Brindle's James >> >>> Hulme yet, but I'd be a LOT happier if I could link an Ann Hulme to >> them >>> somehow. I'll keep kicking over the trail and see what I can find, at >> some >>> level there MUST be an explanation as to why there is a James Hulme >> living >>> with the Brindles in 1841 and 1851, whether or not it's 'my' James >>> >>> Cheers, Pete Hulme >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== >>> For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, >> Westhoughton >>> and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. >>> >>> ============================== >>> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >>> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.3/350 - Release Date: >> 28/05/2006 >>> >> >> >> ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== >> For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, >> Westhoughton and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. >> >> ============================== >> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== >> For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, >> Westhoughton and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. >> >> ============================== >> Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for >> ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.4/351 - Release Date: 29/05/2006 >> >> > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To switch from one mode to the other, unsubscribe from one and then > subscribe to the other. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Hi Pete I have come across a possible marriage for John Rigby & Ann Hulme, Bolton Dec Qtr 1846, Vol 21, pg 89 although there are a lot of other names on the page. Re: Elizabeth Kay - how old was she when she married James? Hope the above is of some use. Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:27 AM Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1881 and 1891 CENSUSES > HI Anne, > I've been giving this a lot of thought and I'm not really able > to make much sense of it! If John Rigby is the son of John Rigby and Ann > Hulme then it's a huge coincidence that they're living next door to > James Brindle in 1881. Problem is we have a chain of coincidences that > only really show that the families knew each other. If one of the > families had a rare surname, life would be much easier! > > I'm going to try to confirm if the John Rigby is the son of John Rigby > and Ann Hulme. I'm also going to see if there's any apparent connection. > By 1881 James Hulme was in Vallets Buildings, which I think is a good > way from Astley Street. > > Cheers, > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 30 May 2006 21:43 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1881 and 1891 CENSUSES > > Hi Pete, > > This is getting very strange. James Brindle is living in Astley Street, > > Little Bolton in 1881 and 1891. He is a book-keeper. Living next door > to > him in 1881 is a John Rigby, who I think could be the son of John Rigby > and > Ann Hulme, who used to live in Dawson Lane. > > I have seen this James Brindle before, when I was doing my own research, > as > Astley Street is next to Myrrh Street, where my great grandparents > William > and Ann Brindle were living in 1891 and where my grandmother was born > Alice > Brindle was born in 1894. > > I don't think there is a connection between my Brindles and James > Brindle. > > Anne in Bolton. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> > To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > > >> Hi again, Anne >> >> I've rechecked the 1861 and James Brindle is listed as "Book Keeper in > a >> Foundry" an educated man's job, I think, so very likely the James at >> Manchester Cathedral College in 1851 is this one. >> >> Cheers, Pete >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Pete Hulme [mailto:phulme@glasshouse.com] >> Sent: Tue 30/05/2006 15:07 >> To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS >> >> >> >> Hi Anne, >> It sounds possible. I would have thought that a boy sent away > to >> cathedral school would therefore be highly educated by the standards > of >> the day, and so would end up as a cleric, clerk or schoolmaster? I'll >> check the 1861 when I get home and see what James Brindle's occupation >> was in 1861. If he's a mill hand then I think that mitigates against >> this being the same person? >> >> Cheers, Pete >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] >> Sent: 30 May 2006 14:24 >> To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS >> >> Hi Pete, >> >> I have gone through the 1851 Census Index looking at all the James >> Brindles >> born about 1840 in Bolton and I couldn't see any who were not the > 'son' >> of >> the household. >> >> I spotted a James Bindle (that is how it was transcribed). When I >> looked at >> the census he was James Brindle, 11 Scholar at Manchester Collegiate >> Cathedral, born Bolton. I wonder if this is the son of George Brindle >> and >> Mary, who is not at home on the 1851 Census? >> >> >> >> ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== >> For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, > Westhoughton >> and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. >> >> ============================== >> Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for >> ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== >> To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to >> ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or >> ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.4/351 - Release Date: > 29/05/2006 >> > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > Bolton Metro - bolton@bolton.gov.uk > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Hi Pete, In case it helps you deliberations, I can tell you that Valletts buildings, named after the French chemist and balloonist who brought the chemical bleaching process to Bolton, were about three-quarters of a mile from Astley St as the crow flies, or as the balloon flies given an east-by-north-east wind. Following modern streets would increase that to getting on for a mile but a more direct route would have been available in 1881. Rgds, Bob Thornley, Bolton From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> <snip> By 1881 James Hulme was in Vallets Buildings, which I think is > good way from Astley Street. <snip>

Can anyone tell me what happened to Richard Draper born c1803 christened at Dean - he married Mary Sharples in 1822 at Dean, they had two children John 1829 and Elizabeth 1831- Elixabeth became my great grandmother marrying William Horrocks. Mary died in 1834, and the two children went to live with relations, I can find no trace of Richard living or dead. Any one any suggestions. Thanks, Mag

HI Anne, I've been giving this a lot of thought and I'm not really able to make much sense of it! If John Rigby is the son of John Rigby and Ann Hulme then it's a huge coincidence that they're living next door to James Brindle in 1881. Problem is we have a chain of coincidences that only really show that the families knew each other. If one of the families had a rare surname, life would be much easier! I'm going to try to confirm if the John Rigby is the son of John Rigby and Ann Hulme. I'm also going to see if there's any apparent connection. By 1881 James Hulme was in Vallets Buildings, which I think is a good way from Astley Street. Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] Sent: 30 May 2006 21:43 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1881 and 1891 CENSUSES Hi Pete, This is getting very strange. James Brindle is living in Astley Street, Little Bolton in 1881 and 1891. He is a book-keeper. Living next door to him in 1881 is a John Rigby, who I think could be the son of John Rigby and Ann Hulme, who used to live in Dawson Lane. I have seen this James Brindle before, when I was doing my own research, as Astley Street is next to Myrrh Street, where my great grandparents William and Ann Brindle were living in 1891 and where my grandmother was born Alice Brindle was born in 1894. I don't think there is a connection between my Brindles and James Brindle. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > Hi again, Anne > > I've rechecked the 1861 and James Brindle is listed as "Book Keeper in a > Foundry" an educated man's job, I think, so very likely the James at > Manchester Cathedral College in 1851 is this one. > > Cheers, Pete > > ________________________________ > > From: Pete Hulme [mailto:phulme@glasshouse.com] > Sent: Tue 30/05/2006 15:07 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > > > > Hi Anne, > It sounds possible. I would have thought that a boy sent away to > cathedral school would therefore be highly educated by the standards of > the day, and so would end up as a cleric, clerk or schoolmaster? I'll > check the 1861 when I get home and see what James Brindle's occupation > was in 1861. If he's a mill hand then I think that mitigates against > this being the same person? > > Cheers, Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 30 May 2006 14:24 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > > Hi Pete, > > I have gone through the 1851 Census Index looking at all the James > Brindles > born about 1840 in Bolton and I couldn't see any who were not the 'son' > of > the household. > > I spotted a James Bindle (that is how it was transcribed). When I > looked at > the census he was James Brindle, 11 Scholar at Manchester Collegiate > Cathedral, born Bolton. I wonder if this is the son of George Brindle > and > Mary, who is not at home on the 1851 Census? > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.4/351 - Release Date: 29/05/2006 > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== Bolton Metro - bolton@bolton.gov.uk ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

I was born Halliwell, Bolton, and my research covers the following names and areas. HOLDEN - Halliwell, Bolton/Pendleton/Abbeytown, Cumberland SMITH - Halliwell & Deane, Bolton MORRIS - Heaton & Deane, Bolton JOYCE - Halliwell, Bolton/Pendleton/Kildare, Ireland DICKINSON - Little Bolton KIRKBY - Halliwell, Bolton/ChorltonM/c/Lancaster WILLIAMSON - Halliwell, Bolton/Manchester/NantwichChes. BOSTOCK - Nantwich, Cheshire BEWLEY - Abbeytown, Cumberland HODDER - Manchester/Bridport, Dorset ROW - Bridport, Dorset MITCHELL - Warrington/Galway, Ireland FINNERTY - Warrington/Galway, Ireland CULLEN - Warrington/Batley, Yorks/Ireland BURGESS - Warrington/Glasgow/Meath, Ireland MORGAN - Warrington/Aberystwyth, Wales Anouska Warrington, Cheshire

Hi Margaret, I don't know at the moment, but I'll keep it on file in case I find a link. Basically I don't know whether I am related to the Brindles, but there is a James Hulme, possibly my g.g.grandfather, who is living with the Brindles in 1841 and 1851 and then my g.g.grandfather and his family are living in the same street as the Brindles in 1871. Anne has also found some other Brindle / Hulme coincidences and we're trying to figure out the link in case I'm related to her Brindles somehow. Thanks for the input. Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: Colin & Margaret [mailto:marlin.2817@ntlworld.com] Sent: 30 May 2006 20:17 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS Hi Pete, Re Brindle family... I have on my collection of Heaps a Ann Brindle who married a John Heap. she brings her children with her..( re 1881 census) James W. 26 (Hatter) Radcliffe, Jane, 23 Emma 19, Marie 18, Jesse A 12, then John D Heap age 4... all of Bury. details. RG11 3861 folio 67 page 35. any use to you ? regards, mgt. calderbank.

Hi Pete, This is getting very strange. James Brindle is living in Astley Street, Little Bolton in 1881 and 1891. He is a book-keeper. Living next door to him in 1881 is a John Rigby, who I think could be the son of John Rigby and Ann Hulme, who used to live in Dawson Lane. I have seen this James Brindle before, when I was doing my own research, as Astley Street is next to Myrrh Street, where my great grandparents William and Ann Brindle were living in 1891 and where my grandmother was born Alice Brindle was born in 1894. I don't think there is a connection between my Brindles and James Brindle. Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > Hi again, Anne > > I've rechecked the 1861 and James Brindle is listed as "Book Keeper in a > Foundry" an educated man's job, I think, so very likely the James at > Manchester Cathedral College in 1851 is this one. > > Cheers, Pete > > ________________________________ > > From: Pete Hulme [mailto:phulme@glasshouse.com] > Sent: Tue 30/05/2006 15:07 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > > > > Hi Anne, > It sounds possible. I would have thought that a boy sent away to > cathedral school would therefore be highly educated by the standards of > the day, and so would end up as a cleric, clerk or schoolmaster? I'll > check the 1861 when I get home and see what James Brindle's occupation > was in 1861. If he's a mill hand then I think that mitigates against > this being the same person? > > Cheers, Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 30 May 2006 14:24 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > > Hi Pete, > > I have gone through the 1851 Census Index looking at all the James > Brindles > born about 1840 in Bolton and I couldn't see any who were not the 'son' > of > the household. > > I spotted a James Bindle (that is how it was transcribed). When I > looked at > the census he was James Brindle, 11 Scholar at Manchester Collegiate > Cathedral, born Bolton. I wonder if this is the son of George Brindle > and > Mary, who is not at home on the 1851 Census? > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.4/351 - Release Date: 29/05/2006 >

Hi Pete, Re Brindle family... I have on my collection of Heaps a Ann Brindle who married a John Heap. she brings her children with her..( re 1881 census) James W. 26 (Hatter) Radcliffe, Jane, 23 Emma 19, Marie 18, Jesse A 12, then John D Heap age 4... all of Bury. details. RG11 3861 folio 67 page 35. any use to you ? regards, mgt. calderbank. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Hulme" <phulme@glasshouse.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > Hi again, Anne > > I've rechecked the 1861 and James Brindle is listed as "Book Keeper in a > Foundry" an educated man's job, I think, so very likely the James at > Manchester Cathedral College in 1851 is this one. > > Cheers, Pete > > ________________________________ > > From: Pete Hulme [mailto:phulme@glasshouse.com] > Sent: Tue 30/05/2006 15:07 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > > > > Hi Anne, > It sounds possible. I would have thought that a boy sent away to > cathedral school would therefore be highly educated by the standards of > the day, and so would end up as a cleric, clerk or schoolmaster? I'll > check the 1861 when I get home and see what James Brindle's occupation > was in 1861. If he's a mill hand then I think that mitigates against > this being the same person? > > Cheers, Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 30 May 2006 14:24 > To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS > > Hi Pete, > > I have gone through the 1851 Census Index looking at all the James > Brindles > born about 1840 in Bolton and I couldn't see any who were not the 'son' > of > the household. > > I spotted a James Bindle (that is how it was transcribed). When I > looked at > the census he was James Brindle, 11 Scholar at Manchester Collegiate > Cathedral, born Bolton. I wonder if this is the son of George Brindle > and > Mary, who is not at home on the 1851 Census? > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton > and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Hi again, Anne I've rechecked the 1861 and James Brindle is listed as "Book Keeper in a Foundry" an educated man's job, I think, so very likely the James at Manchester Cathedral College in 1851 is this one. Cheers, Pete ________________________________ From: Pete Hulme [mailto:phulme@glasshouse.com] Sent: Tue 30/05/2006 15:07 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS Hi Anne, It sounds possible. I would have thought that a boy sent away to cathedral school would therefore be highly educated by the standards of the day, and so would end up as a cleric, clerk or schoolmaster? I'll check the 1861 when I get home and see what James Brindle's occupation was in 1861. If he's a mill hand then I think that mitigates against this being the same person? Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] Sent: 30 May 2006 14:24 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS Hi Pete, I have gone through the 1851 Census Index looking at all the James Brindles born about 1840 in Bolton and I couldn't see any who were not the 'son' of the household. I spotted a James Bindle (that is how it was transcribed). When I looked at the census he was James Brindle, 11 Scholar at Manchester Collegiate Cathedral, born Bolton. I wonder if this is the son of George Brindle and Mary, who is not at home on the 1851 Census? ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Hi Anne, It sounds possible. I would have thought that a boy sent away to cathedral school would therefore be highly educated by the standards of the day, and so would end up as a cleric, clerk or schoolmaster? I'll check the 1861 when I get home and see what James Brindle's occupation was in 1861. If he's a mill hand then I think that mitigates against this being the same person? Cheers, Pete -----Original Message----- From: pneanne [mailto:pne.anne@ntlworld.com] Sent: 30 May 2006 14:24 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] JAMES BRINDLE 1851 CENSUS Hi Pete, I have gone through the 1851 Census Index looking at all the James Brindles born about 1840 in Bolton and I couldn't see any who were not the 'son' of the household. I spotted a James Bindle (that is how it was transcribed). When I looked at the census he was James Brindle, 11 Scholar at Manchester Collegiate Cathedral, born Bolton. I wonder if this is the son of George Brindle and Mary, who is not at home on the 1851 Census?