Ah !! I didn't know there was a Cumberland .. Bolton. Apologies. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Bunter To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Bolton Low Houses Hi Barb, I believe that this news article refers to Bolton in Cumberland not Bolton in Lancashire which is the subject of this mailing list. Cheers, Sharon -----Original Message----- From: Barb Baker [mailto:bbaker48@sympatico.ca] Sent: Thursday, 13 July 2006 6:56 AM To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Bolton Low Houses from THE WEST CUMBERLAND TIMES, Saturday, October 18, 1884 The anniversary of the Sunday School was held on Sunday and Monday in the Primitive Methodist Chapel, Bolton. On Sunday there were two services, afternoon and evening, conducted by Mr. John THOMPSON, Wedholme Hill, when the scholars gave a selection of sacred songs, dialogues, and recitations, in a most creditable manner. At four o'clock on Monday, tea was provided in the chapel. The following ladies had trays and presided: - Mrs. T. BACKLOCK Mrs. LIGHTFOOT Miss. FOSTER Miss. LIGHTFOOT. After tea a public meeting was held, Mr. James LIGHTFOOT in the chair. The speakers were: - Mr. William FOSTER, Wigton Mr. William TAIT, Fletchertown Rev. Jackson HARDING, the new minister for the Wigton circuit. Mr. John DAVIDSON, of Fletchertown, presided at the harmonium. Each service was crowded, many being not able to gain admittance. The collections far surpassed those of any previous year. ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Hello Nancy, I notice that Daniel and Elizabeth Brady were transcribed as Broady on the 1861 Census in Bark Street, Bolton. I have been unable to find Elizabeth or her children Alfred and Jane on the 1871 Census in Bolton. I have checked the deaths on Free BMD and there is Daniel Brady died September Quarter 1868 Bolton ,aged 56 years. If this is Elizabeth's husband, he would be quite a few years younger than her. If you think it is the right Daniel, you could send for his death certificate to see where the family were living in 1868 and if Elizabeth was the informant. I have checked the deaths for an Elizabeth Brady from 1861 to 1871 in Bolton, but there were none of the right age. I checked the 1881 Census for Alfred Brady and the only one that showed up was born in England about 1841 and was living in Galveston, Texas, with his wife Eliza. Kind regards, Anne in Bolton. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bragene@aol.com> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 4:34 PM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] 1871 Census > Elizabeth Brady is found in the 1861 Census of Lancashire in Bolton with > her > husband Daniel. She was 60 years old, born Heywood. I am wondering if she > could still be alive in 1871, possibly living with a relative. > > I would appreciate a look up in the 1871 Census. > > Nancy > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > Bolton Metro - bolton@bolton.gov.uk > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/386 - Release Date: 12/07/2006 > >

from THE WEST CUMBERLAND TIMES, Saturday, October 18, 1884 The anniversary of the Sunday School was held on Sunday and Monday in the Primitive Methodist Chapel, Bolton. On Sunday there were two services, afternoon and evening, conducted by Mr. John THOMPSON, Wedholme Hill, when the scholars gave a selection of sacred songs, dialogues, and recitations, in a most creditable manner. At four o’clock on Monday, tea was provided in the chapel. The following ladies had trays and presided: - Mrs. T. BACKLOCK Mrs. LIGHTFOOT Miss. FOSTER Miss. LIGHTFOOT. After tea a public meeting was held, Mr. James LIGHTFOOT in the chair. The speakers were: - Mr. William FOSTER, Wigton Mr. William TAIT, Fletchertown Rev. Jackson HARDING, the new minister for the Wigton circuit. Mr. John DAVIDSON, of Fletchertown, presided at the harmonium. Each service was crowded, many being not able to gain admittance. The collections far surpassed those of any previous year.

Hi Nancy A quick search didn't seem to turn up anything, so I did the same search in 1861 and found nothing there either. Brady is the sort of name that gets mistranscribed easily so that might be the problem. Can you give the refs (Piece/Folio/Page) for the 1861 census. There might be some lead that can be followed. Rgds, Bob Thornley, Bolton From: <Bragene@aol.com> > Elizabeth Brady is found in the 1861 Census of Lancashire in Bolton with > her > husband Daniel. She was 60 years old, born Heywood. I am wondering if she > could still be alive in 1871, possibly living with a relative. > I would appreciate a look up in the 1871 Census. > Nancy

In a message dated 7/12/06 1:12:20 PM Central Daylight Time, pne.anne@ntlworld.com writes: I notice that Daniel and Elizabeth Brady were transcribed as Broady on the 1861 Census in Bark Street, Bolton. I have been unable to find Elizabeth or her children Alfred and Jane on the 1871 Census in Bolton Perhaps Elizabeth has died and Jane has been married. After she married a Mr. Bolton she went to Cork, Ireland. . I have checked the deaths on Free BMD and there is Daniel Brady died September Quarter 1868 Bolton ,aged 56 years. If this is Elizabeth's husband, he would be quite a few years younger than her. If you think it is the right Daniel, you could send for his death certificate to see where the family were living in 1868 and if Elizabeth was the informant. In the earlier census years Daniel was much older than Elizabeth. He was born about 1793. I have checked the deaths for an Elizabeth Brady from 1861 to 1871 in Bolton, but there were none of the right age. I checked the 1881 Census for Alfred Brady and the only one that showed up was born in England about 1841 and was living in Galveston, Texas, with his wife Eliza. This Alfred Brady was the son of Daniel and Elizabeth and died in the 1900 Galveston hurricane, a storm that killed many, many people. Alfred had a son, Edwin. who lived in England. He came to Texas to claim his inheritance and then returned to England. I have no idea when he was born. Thus I have never found him in the census in England. He had a son named Thomas, date of birth also unknown. Thank you for trying to help. Nancy in Texas.

Elizabeth Brady is found in the 1861 Census of Lancashire in Bolton with her husband Daniel. She was 60 years old, born Heywood. I am wondering if she could still be alive in 1871, possibly living with a relative. I would appreciate a look up in the 1871 Census. Nancy

In a message dated 11/07/2006 16:27:12 GMT Daylight Time, v.lirakis@ntlworld.com writes: There is certainly a strong similarity between the uniform in my picture, and the one on the Google website Could it not be the type of uniform that would be worn in the deaert. I can remember seeing a photo of an uncle who was a 'Desert Rat', dressed like that, complete with Pith helmet. It was taken in WW2. Jacqui

Hi Linda and Bob, There is certainly a strong similarity between the uniform in my picture, and the one on the Google website. The picture postcard I have has space for the address and the message on the back, which first appeared in 1902. As the Boer War ended in May 1902, this photo must have been taken earlier in that year (assuming that the uniform is authentic). The badge of rank on his epaulette shows up more clearly on the original, but tantalizingly not quite clear enough for me to make out what the letters are. Does anyone know when in 1902 these picture postcards first appeared? Valerie -----Original Message----- From: Bob Thornley [mailto:bob@thornleysystems.co.uk] Sent: 11 July 2006 15:12 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Valerie's Website Soldier's photo Hi Linda, No, it doesn't seem silly, but it's definitely not an English Bobby's uniform. There's a rumour that they still walk about round here, although I haven't seen one for some time as they all seem to be busy filling in forms, and whilst I can see what would make you think the helmet looks similar, this one is in fact a military pith helmet. It also has a puggaree, which is the scarf or band just above the brim. From: "Charles & Linda" <cap38@verizon.net> > This may seem silly, but could it be an English Bobby in your photo rather > than a military soldier. It looks like photos I've seen of the Bobbies. > Hopefully, some other lister will have a better answer for you but thought > I'd throw that out to you 'in case'. > Best wishes, Linda in the US >

Hi Linda, No, it doesn't seem silly, but it's definitely not an English Bobby's uniform. There's a rumour that they still walk about round here, although I haven't seen one for some time as they all seem to be busy filling in forms, and whilst I can see what would make you think the helmet looks similar, this one is in fact a military pith helmet. It also has a puggaree, which is the scarf or band just above the brim. There's a picture of a Boer war uniform with some similarities at http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.injersey.com/images/day/0103/lindys.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.injersey.com/day/story/0,2379,366868,00.html&h=285&w=190&sz=11&hl=en&start=27&tbnid=YX5KPRptWNRq-M:&tbnh=115&tbnw=77&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dboer%2Buniform%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3DGEUA,GEUA:2006-02,GEUA:en%26sa%3DN (sorry this is the via Google link - the direct link doesn't work properly at the moment) The uniform on this link is not identical. For example the tunic collar is different, the pith helmet has a much narrower brim, and the badge is mounted mostly on the puggaree rather than above it as on Valerie's photograph. For Linda's comparison, there's a picture of an English police helmet at http://www.fotosearch.com/PHD359/os44022/ Evenin' All. Rgds, Bob Thornley, Bolton From: "Charles & Linda" <cap38@verizon.net> > This may seem silly, but could it be an English Bobby in your photo rather > than a military soldier. It looks like photos I've seen of the Bobbies. > Hopefully, some other lister will have a better answer for you but thought > I'd throw that out to you 'in case'. > Best wishes, Linda in the US > > > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list, send the command "unsubscribe" to > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L-request@rootsweb.com (if in mail mode) or > ENG-LAN-BOLTON-D-request@rootsweb.com (if in digest mode.) > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > >

My apologies to anyone who tried to view the image of the soldier that mysteriously failed to appear yesterday. He is now securely installed ref: 3K http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~boltongenealogy/photogallery5.htm If anyone thinks they know who he is would they please let the list know. All it says on the back of the postcard is to Mrs. Ashworth, with love from Billy. Valerie

Hi Valerie, This may seem silly, but could it be an English Bobby in your photo rather than a military soldier. It looks like photos I've seen of the Bobbies. Hopefully, some other lister will have a better answer for you but thought I'd throw that out to you 'in case'. Best wishes, Linda in the US

Two more pictures for my website http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~boltongenealogy/photogallery5.htm, refs: 3J & 3K. I would be grateful if anyone could give me information about the soldier's uniform which I think could be colonial, or perhaps Boer War. Valerie

Thank you, Valerie, Bob and Martin for your advice and help on finding graves in Heaton cemetery. I am trying the War Graves method and I have downloaded the cemetery on Google Earth, (got a good image), and Valerie has sent me a map with four references, which are useful. Am beginning to get familiar with the layout and will be taking a drive round soon. Regards to you all Pam in Westhoughton ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information

Yes. Yes. From: <Bragene@aol.com> > Is there an 1891 Census for England which is available? > Has the 1901 Census been released? >

Is there an 1891 Census for England which is available? Has the 1901 Census been released?

Hi Martin, I've seen, and acknowledged as a nifty idea, your suggestion about getting the bearings of cemeteries using CWGC information. It leads to a very valuable starting point. But here's the Bolton problem. I've been to the municipal cemeteries many times before and since your suggestion, always armed with the grave number and a plan from the office marked with an 'x' indicating the section I need (3G or whatever) and indeed the plan has got me with minimal fuss to a section that does indeed contain headstones engraved with the desired section number. Not the one I'm looking for though. So I follow the sub-reference sequence trying to work out which way to go, and pretty soon 3G becomes, for no discernable reason, 9Q. (These numbers are accurately indicative rather than actual - my memory isn't up to that.) The cemeteries are essentially made up of plots separated by small walkways and larger, metalled roads for vehicles. You'd think that these plots, so delineated, would be represented by the most significant digits of the reference numbers, but this turns out to be true only by broad trend. And the numbers are certainly not in reliably contiguous groups. I found one grave recently in Heaton Cemetery across two metalled roads and literally thousands of headstones away from the first occurrence I found of the correct section reference number and letter. Having said all that, of course, probability dictates that there will be times when the desired headstone is one of the first ones you find, or at least it's in a logical seeming location relative to others. Presumably decades of reorganising new brooms have come and gone and inevitable entropy has set in. I wonder if this might explain the reluctance to provide "maps" in the library and on cemetery notice boards? Still, I suppose we wouldn't enjoy the hobby as much if it were too easy. Best wishes Rgds, Bob Thornley, Bolton From: "Martin Briscoe" <mbriscoe@zetnet.co.uk> >I was given a map by the office which had instructions on how to get to the > graves (Heaton) that I was interested in. I was able to virtually > straight > to them. > What is needed is a key to the different sections of the cemetery and I > can't see why the office cannot make one available in the library and > elsewhere. It would be less work for them as they do offer to take you to > the grave if you send off for a copy of the burial grant. > I was looking for some Newfoundland Overseas Forestry Unit war graves in > Carlisle so Emailed the office there and within half an hour they Emailed > me > a detailed map showing the layout of the cemetery (as big as Heaton). I > was > able to then go straight to the graves on my next visit. > Wrexham actually have a plan on the notice board at the cemetery. > I have suggested before that one trick is download all the war graves from > the CWGC website, I put them in a EXCEL sheet.

I would be very grateful if SKS would look up the following burials please. FRYER James age 24 June Qtr. 1849 FRYER Girl age 0 Sept Qtr. 1850 FRIER Joseph age 20 Dec Qtr. 1852 FRYER Eliza age 28 Mar Qtr. 1854 FRYER Mary A age 2 June Qtr. 1854 It is rather a long list, but I am hoping that the names will be on the same film. (Fingers crossed) Regards from Ottawa Joan

CARLISLE PATRIOT, Saturday, November 18, 1843 /ORIGINAL CORRESPONDENCE....PART 3 (to the Editor of the Carlisle Patriot) THE MANUFACTURERS AND THEIR LABOURERS LETTER 1 continued........................................... _____________________________________________________________ At a recent meeting, I repeatedly pressed the question, whether it was just that the child should work, and the parent be forced into idleness ? but I could not get an answer. The fact could not be denied -- the practice could not be defended. Yet I submit to you, and your readers, whether this system alone is not sufficient to condemn the present abuse of machinery, and to warn us against making any further sacrifices for its advancement ? But even the manufacturer is not blind to the mischievous results of his system as regards children. When it suits him, he can bewail the use of children's labour -- and we find a notable instance of this at the time when the "Jacquard" machine was introduced. In those towns of Great Britain where figured work is produced, children had been long - and in many are still - employed as "drawboys"; but when the improvement was introduced from France, it promised to save time as well as labour, and the manufacturers adopted it with avidity. In consequence, the children lost their work. But the manufacturers then found it convenient to become loud in their expressions of concern at the uneducated state of the children of the industrious poor.. Sympathies that had lain dormant for years became suddenly active, and the well-being of the rising generation was apparently the principal aim of the millocrats. The weavers listened, and were, as usual, deceived. They adopted the machine, although very expensive, and fitted up wholly at their own cost, but their wages were the same as before, although their production was greatly increased; and they were further deprived of the small pittance earned by their children. I might mention numerous other cases of a similar kind, but I believe it to be unnecessary. It is pretty well known - at least all the working classes know it - that there is no fabric which machinery does not or cannot be made to produce, or if any such there be, then the castaways from other branches of manufacturers betake themselves to it, and a serious depreciation of wages is the consequence. Take an instance. Twenty years ago the weavers of Bolton were receiving "fifteeen shillings" for weaving twelve yards of 6.4th cambric. Now they get less than "three shillings" ! - and what compensation have they received for this ? Have house-rent, light, food, and fuel been reduced in proportion, or "eighty per cent ? Most assuredly not - and no repeal of the Corn Laws will ever produce the reduction; but the weavers are beggared, and MR. COBDEN sings the praises of machinery !! HE may -- the operatives cannot. Paid, as we are, the task of the Israelites, to make bricks without straw, ceases to excite our pity. Give us a fair remuneration for our labour, and then if the stringency of the Corn Laws were doubled, the operative would have more comforts at his command than now. Granting, for a moment, that the farmers in the far off Utopian climes of the League's creation were "to ship us food for nothing", are our present wages sufficient to clothe and educate our families, as becomes rational and immortal beings " We know they are not, and no Anti-Corn Law Leaguer has yet pretended that our wages will increase when the Corn Laws are abrogated - or if such a pretence were urged, we know the men and the true value of their promises too well to trust them. I have now shown how it is that the working classes suffer, and that the cause of their suffering is wholly unconnected with the Corn Laws. I shall conclude with a supposition grounded on a fact which, I think, proves that, in a national point of view, the reduction of wages incidental to the excessive use of machinery is a public loss. Take the working classes prejudiced by machinery to be not more than four millions - if each of these gets one shilling a week less wages than he would do if his labour were not exposed to a ruinous competition with machinery - the money lost to the nation is not less than £200,000 a week..........or £10,400,000 annually. This, which is full a fourth of entire foreign trade, is lost to the home market, which is the most valuable market of all - and yet the advancement of the foreign trade is the sole professed object of the Anti-Corn Law Agitation ! A trade which is in its very nature fluctuating and temporary, and on which we frequently suffer immense losses. The working classes, at all events, know the difference between an English "sovereign" and a yankee "shin plaster" ** . I am, Sir, yours, &c., JAMES BURNS. Gallabarrow, Cockermouth, November 7, 1843 ______________________ ** a dollar bill - generally of no real value. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

CARLISLE PATRIOT, Saturday, November 18, 1843 /ORIGINAL CORRESPONDENCE....PART 2 (to the Editor of the Carlisle Patriot) THE MANUFACTURERS AND THEIR LABOURERS LETTER 1 continued........................................... _____________________________________________________________ It is nothing that a man should be able to buy a single article like calico at a very cheap rate, if his means of purchasing all the necessaries, and all other comforts, be so seriously curtailed. The manufacturers say, nevertheless, although they reduce the means of buying, and although a man may get ten times as much cotton for his shilling as he could thirty years ago - yet, if the production of such cheap goods yields him no more than that shilling, they are very dear to him. The working man knows this well, and becomes more alive to the fact every day; and when the cry is raised that "comforts are cheaper", - which, by the way, means nothing more than that "cotton goods are cheaper", - the poor man need but inquire whether, with all this cheapness, he can boast of as many shirts as his father, or the workman of "dearer" days ? and to this questionn his answer must be in the negative. But there is another and a worse result from the excessive use of machinery - it supersedes adult labour altogether. Fathers, and those, who, by the laws of Nature and of God, are bound to provide for the wants of their families, are deprived of all chance of doing so, and the whole burden of labouring for the maintenance of the poor man's family devolves upon the children, whose tender age demands culture, and is unfit for toil. This of itself strikes at the root of the social system - exalts those whom Nature meant to be subordinate, and humiliates those whom it intended to have control; and I am firmly convinced that a very large portion of the crime now unhappily so rife in this kingdom, is traceable to this unnatural system which the introduction of machinery to the exclusion of adult labour has introduced. When pressed upon this point, I know the manufacturers, in this neighbourhood at least, turn round and say, "why these complaints ? there is full employment for the handloom weavers - nay, there is a demand for their labour " But, although this is true, there is nothing, perhaps, that illustrates more clearly the evils of the present system, or exposes more glaringly the shallow pretences of the mill-owners to philanthropy; for it is a fact, which every workman will confirm, that the material now given out to the operatives is such only - as is too weak to bear the stress of machinery ! It is a fact that the poor man, whose labour as a commodity is nearly valueless, in consequence of his inability to compete with the machine, has to toil doubly, day after day, in manufacturing a material too inferior for the machine, and which cannot be wrought without his aid; and what are his wages after all -- some seven or eight shillings a week ! Part 3 of this letter will follow........................................................ ====================================================

CARLISLE PATRIOT, Saturday, November 18, 1843 / ORIGINAL CORRESPONDENCE...............................PART 1 (to the Editor of the Carlisle Patriot) THE MANUFACTURERS AND THEIR LABOURERS LETTER 1 _________________________________________________________ SIR, - I am grateful to you for the opportunity you have offered me of bringing before the public, what I, and a great majority of the working classes, believe to be the true cause of the distress prevailing amongst the manufacturing operatives -- and which it is the interest of a selfish faction to attribute to a totally different source. Although hooted at the late public meeting here by the well dressed bullies on the hustings, I trust before I have done to make it appear that my views are, at least, as well founded, and my motives as commendable, as those of the monopolists, in talk, MESSRS. COBDEN, ASHWORTH, AGLIONBY, &c., who figures on that occasion. I will notice first the most prominent and positive of the axioms of the free-traders, as advanced by MR. COBDEN, viz : That the prevalent distress in the manufacturing and other districts is solely attributable to the existence of a protective system of Corn Laws, and that the application of machinery to our manufacturers has been an unqualified blessing. In connection with this, it is a fact deserving of some attention that the sliding duties on the import of corn, and the general use of machinery in manufactures, so as to supersede manual labour to any great extent, commenced at nearly the same time, viz., 1815. Previous to that time an adult operative in full employ produced as the result of his labour about TWO pieces of calico in a week. NOW, with the aid of machinery, two lads of fifteen or sixteen years of age can produce TWENTY pieces of the same article in the same time - and I may here observe that the wages of labour have been reduced in proportion. This of itself goes far to account for the depreciation in the condition of the manufacturing operative, and the Anti-Corn Law faction are so well aware of the fact that they will never meet the question; on the contrary -- as in the recent instance, whenever they have the power, they clamor down all allusion to it. It is plain, however, that if two BOYS, in a given time, can manufacture ten times as great a quantity of any commodity, by the aid of machinery, as a full grown MAN can without, that the money value of the adult's wages is ruinously reduced in proportion as the system prevails. It is true the manufactuers say calico is cheaper in consequence, and, therefore, the workmen can buy it more readily than before; but surely this does not atone for the evil. Part 2 of this letter will follow..................................................................................................................... ===============================================================================================