Hi Barry, I have searched on the 1851 for Charles Warburton, but the only two I could find of the right age group did not have the parents you mention. I also searched for Joseph Warburton, between the ages of 25-45, but again without success. Of course it could be that Joseph had died before the 1851 census was taken. If I have another thought I will let you know. Valerie -----Original Message----- From: Barry Bain [mailto:B-Bain@rhoslan1.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 25 August 2006 19:59 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Suggestions Please I am asking for suggestions of ways to identify, which of the two birth certificates below belongs to my great-grandfather CHARLES WARBURTON. He was born in Manchester but lived in Bolton, working as a shoemaker, from the mid 1890's up to his death in 1922 (There, that keeps me 'on subject' for the Bolton list).

I read one report from someone that he had found large extracts of his tree (which he had researched very carefully) added to someone else's tree but they had changed some of the dates to fit in better with what they wanted! I have imported sections in my tree and when I get queries about them I pass on to the source. I don't mind my tree being used but it is annoying to find sections that I have now revised showing errors and also some people are quite careless in not filtering out information on living people. Martin Briscoe Fort William M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS -----Original Message----- From: Carolyn and Darryl [mailto:dazwilson@bigpond.com] Sent: 26 August 2006 13:21 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] WHAT DO I DO ?? Hi, All. I have re-checked all my messages to this list in 2004. Now I discover that all my GARTHSIDE Family Tree has been copied by someone else ( I have emailed this person 3 times, but no answer ! : - except for the 1st time about a week ago when she replied, saying he/she was very interested.) Then when I emailed a 2nd and 3rd time...............no answer.

Hi, All, I have been told by an ancestor that her father, a GARTHSIDE or a SMITH (and she was m. to a HOLT) was the person who made shoes/(cloggers?) for that Club. (? a Clogger). Some of my GARTHSIDE/GARTSIDE etc. were cloggers/shoe makers and she told me in the 1990's that her father made shoes for the Bolton Wanderers. When I asked her / replied to her mail, she told me that she was too old to 'bother' with family history.! (Oh, alas!) However, when I wrote to the Club in abt 1996-1998 they replied with a message that they "had never heard of him" ! It is still a mystery to me ! I am sure she was a Gertrude m. to a HOLT (I could be wrong in the surnames). I still wonder............. Carolyn. Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "BARBARA WINDER" <barbara@wonderwinder.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] GARTHIDE/GARTSIDE/GARSIDE ET AL. > Sharon, > Do you know the Bolton Wanderers Football Club chairman is a GARTSIDE? > Barbara > > > ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== > For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton >> ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx and Turton. Please > keep the messages coming. > >

Hi, All. I have re-checked all my messages to this list in 2004. Now I discover that all my GARTHSIDE Family Tree has been copied by someone else ( I have emailed this person 3 times, but no answer ! : - except for the 1st time about a week ago when she replied, saying he/she was very interested.) Then when I emailed a 2nd and 3rd time...............no answer. What should I do ? I am really upset ! I had a researcher find out my ancestors (+ much cost!) and now it is all written up on this person's tree ! Would love some help from anyone. All Valerie's and Anne's Census info. is there, much to my horror. (And probably Valerie's and Anne's!) Woe ! (Please advise me as to what to do). Carolyn.

I also see my work on others trees but I am lucky even though I was not asked they give me credit as the researcher. Jane

> I had a researcher find out my ancestors (+ much cost!) and now it is all written up on this person's tree ! > > Would love some help from anyone. > > All Valerie's and Anne's Census info. is there, much to my horror. (And probably Valerie's and Anne's!) > > Woe ! (Please advise me as to what to do). I'd say, be delighted that the money you spent on that research has been of interest to someone other than yourself. Great stuff! Seriously, if I go onto rootsweb worldconnect, I'll see loads of bits and bobs that have come from my tree, often copied piecemeal, which is just as well since my gedcom is full of cribbing from others. From a copyright perspective, maybe you have a point, but if it were me I'd just be happy someone was reading it. Cheers, Cloughie.

Hi, My grandfather was a clogger, they only made clogs. My uncle was a shoe maker and repairer. They had a business to gether until the 1950's when my grandfather retired, my uncle continued until the late 1960's, the business was in Church Street, Horwich and the name Horrocks. My sister and myself always wore clogs during the week for school. I have a pair of clogs my grandfather made for my son. Mag

Carolyn, The one at Bolton Wanderers is Phil Gartside. He's dark haired and quite chubby if that helps. There is a link via Reeboks to Bolton and clogging. Reeboks of international fame began in Bolton as a cloggers, and of course helped to fund the stadium which is called the Reebok Stadium. They now have moved their main international offices there. Best Wishes, Barbara

Hi, All, and Barbara, I have been told by a cousin of my Dad's that her father,(viz. a GARTHSIDE or a SMITH (and she was m. to a HOLT) was the person who made shoes/(cloggers?) for that Club. (? a Clogger). Some of my GARTHSIDE/GARTSIDE etc. were cloggers/shoe makers and she told me in the 1990's that her father made shoes for the Bolton Wanderers. When I asked her / replied to her mail, she told me that she was too old to 'bother' with family history.! (Oh, alas!) However, when I wrote to the Club in abt 1996-1998 they replied with a message that they "had never heard of him" ! It is still a mystery to me ! I am sure she was a Gertrude m. to a HOLT ( I could be wrong in the surnames). I still wonder............. Carolyn. Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "BARBARA WINDER" <barbara@wonderwinder.freeserve.co.uk> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] GARTHIDE/GARTSIDE/GARSIDE ET AL. > Sharon,

Hi, Michael,, It would be easier if I answer your messages below................................... > Carolyn ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com writes: >> >>How does one obtain the Bolton listings ? > > The LDS may get them for you providing you live near one of their centres _ I don't in Bx, but last weekend noticed there was a new one in Kelso, an 'offshoot' of Bathurst. Perhaps I could ring them?..............I'll try.................! >>I agree that Jane ISHERWOOD's parents were Christopher and Elizabeth. >>Their children all seem to be "Submitted" Entries on the IGI. > In which case I'm sure you'll treat with a pinch of salt I am always very suspicious of "Subnitted Entries" and unless I can verify them with Extracted Entries or OPRs etc, I don't follow them. Yet Jane is there b. 1709 and he is a Submitted Entry ! You suggested that her parents were Christopher and Elizabeth . >>Christopher b. abt 1656 of Edgeworth, BLM and m. Elizabeth (no surname >>given) abt 1681. >>Possible children: >>- 1685 John >>- 1687 Thomas >>- 1693 Elizabeth >>- 1697 Abigail >>- 1709 Jane >>- 1711 Margaret................................all chr. BLM. Very >>'gappy' ? >>Have you any idea of Elizabeth's surname? Could it also have been >>ISHERWOOD? > > There is no record in Bolton (or other) PRs that fits Christopher and > Elizabeth. Elizabeth surname unknown, therefore. I would suspect the > 1697-1709 gap indicates 2 sets of children/parents but no evidence for > proposition! (Sorry to be obtuse, but what does 'proposition' mean ? (Do you mean your supposition/suggestion/idea?) Remember I have only researched in SCT and haven't found that term there.) >>Is Jane an ascendant of yours ? > No >>Yes, I do have the m. of Jane GARTHSIDE and John ISHERWOOD in 1774. He is >>described as "Weaver of Edgeworth". I can only find 2 children for them: >>Alice (1776) and William (1778), both chr. Turton. They were both very >>young >>when married. Jane G. was about 19 and I'm not sure about John, nor who >>his >>parents were. > It'll probably be difficult to identify the John I bp and parents as so > many Johns. I'll try and do some Christopher I tentative reconstructions > from my data and see what falls out - I'll come back when I've done this - > tiling the bathroom is calling :-) (Cool ! Happy tiling!! Bedtime is calling me now.................11.20 p.m. !) Carolyn.

Hi Valerie It's all very curious isn't it? The 1881 census is helpful- William LEE Head 46 Bolton, Lancashire, England Stripper & Grinder Cotton Factory Ellen LEE Wife 40 Rumworth, Lancashire, England Thomas HIGSON Stepson U Male 19 Rumworth,Coal Miner PETER HIGSON Stepson Male 16 Rumworth, Coal Miner JOHN HIGSON Stepson Male 15 Rumworth, Coal Miner Henry HIGSON Stepson Male 12 Rumworth, Scholar Rebecca LEE Daur 8 Rumworth, Scholar James LEE Son 6 Rumworth, Scholar Esther LEE Daur 4 Rumworth, England I know this is the right family because in Peter Higson's household after his death was his mother Ellen Lee 70. In 1871 there is an Ellen Higson + Wm Leigh marriage (Bolton) which must be them. And in the Deane baptisms (I now have the CD) Peter, John & Henry were all baptised to Thomas & Ellen Higson between 1864 and 1869 (couldn't find Thos jnr, but 3/4 ain't bad). I can't find a Thomas Higson + Ellen X marriage, but a Higson-Higson combo would be unexceptional in Deane Parish. There is a Thomas Higson 32 death in JQ69 which would be appropriate. I think I'd better leave it at that. Annie Martin/Higson appears to have been in a stable relationship with John Higson, and maybe she thought she would be compensated only if she claimed to be married (and perhaps she was?) - there is at least one case of a clear de facto relationship in which the man's "wife" was not eligible for a widow's compensation from the miners' relief fund. Good on Annie I say. Valerie - can you suggest any way we could get access to Deane burial registers for that period? Presumably the church has them still? For Jim Riding - Jim, I am aware of all the online and other library lists of Pretoria victims (there is one prepared by wigan schools as a teaching aid) - they are littered with errors. We are working with at least 4 primary lists dating to the time of the disaster, plus extensive input by Dr Trevor Griffiths at University of Edinburgh, who, in the 1980s, researched the socio-economic impacts of Pretoria on the local community. Much of his research contributed to his excellent book on the Lancashire Working Classes 1880-1930, and most importantly, he had access to the Mayor of Bolton Relief Fund documents. There is now a 100-year rule on access to those documents, and as the last payment was in the 1970s..........!!! Regards Peter Wood

Valerie, Reference to them was made to me by one of the archivists in conversation while I was on a film reader. She did get the indexes out to refer to so that I would know which reference numbers to ask for. The indexes are located downstairs in the small bookcase at the back of the room I think - but the originals need to be ordered from the archives. As I've no idea what content the original records contain or how they are organised I Googled "Post Trial Calendars" and came up with a couple of links: The first is to an Australian newsgroup: "Calendars of prisoners and prison registers were lists of people awaiting trial. the printed lists show name, crime sometime age and trade plus date committed into custody. there are also post trial calendars giving verdict, sentence etc. Up to 1877 prisons, and therefore calendars were county matters, and are kept at the appropriate County record office. or at the Public Record office at Kew." The second is a link to A GUIDE TO THE RESOURCES OF THE BOLTON ARCHIVE AND LOCAL STUDIES UNIT: a large pdf file. http://www.bolton.gov.uk/pls/portal92/docs/PAGE/EDUCATION_DEPARTMENT/HERITAG E_AND_ARTS/ARCHIVES%20SERVICE/DEF%20ARCHIVES%20GUIDE%20REVISED.PDF but this booklet does not give any details of what the records contain. However, if listers are unaware of the range of records contained in Bolton, this is a useful document. The third link Google found was restricted but also to Bolton.gov.uk If you find out more when you enquire I would be very interested if you could post a brief description of these records as it might save me some time the next time I'm in Bolton. I'm sure other Listers would be interested as well. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Valerie [mailto:v.lirakis@ntlworld.com] Sent: 24 August 2006 00:06 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Prison Research Hi Paul, I've been going to the Archives regularly in Bolton for the last few years, and didn't realize they had a Post Trial Calendar and Indictment records. I shall certainly enquire about them on my next visit. Thanks for making me aware of them. Valerie -----Original Message----- From: Paul Barrow [mailto:paul@pbarrow.demon.co.uk] Sent: 21 August 2006 23:54 To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Prison Research The point of my posting is to ask if any listers have experience of researching court or prison records in Bolton and, if so, any tips on the most efficient and effective ways of researching this kind of information. Any advice would be very welcome. Paul Barrow St Albans England ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 23/08/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 23/08/2006

I am asking for suggestions of ways to identify, which of the two birth certificates below belongs to my great-grandfather CHARLES WARBURTON. He was born in Manchester but lived in Bolton, working as a shoemaker, from the mid 1890’s up to his death in 1922 (There, that keeps me ‘on subject’ for the Bolton list). 1) Charles Warburton. 18 Walter Street, Hulme. 10th July 1846. Father - Joseph Warburton: Mother - Elizabeth Street. 2) Charles Warburton. 62 Fleet Street, Manchester. 8th February 1847. Father - Joseph Warburton: Mother - Anne Lister. I have his death certificate, the 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses, all of which confirm that he was born in Manchester between April 1846 and April 1847. The above certificates are the only two Charles Warburton’s born at the right time and place. I also have found MY Charles Warburton on the 1861 working as a shoemaker’s apprentice but unfortunately he was staying at his employers address and not with his parents. According to the census returns he was married but their's no record of this. I need to narrow down his date of birth. Barry Bain

Hi, All, I have been searching all morning for the above. The only 'clues' I have are that James GARTHSIDE's children with Jane ISHERWOOD were Elizabeth/Betty (probably (?) after Jane's mother Elizabeth) and John. Elizabeth m. Arthur KAY in 1750 at St Peter's, Bolton and they had 12 children. No James (unless unrecorded on the IGI), a Jane after her mother (?), an Arthur after his father and him, no Elizabeth after her or Arthur's mother, but a John (after her brother?), a Thomas and a William. Seeing that Michael has told me that Jane ISHERWOOD's parents were Christopher and Elizabeth, m. abt 1681, BLM, is it reasonable to 'assume' that James GARTHSIDE's parents would have been m. around the same time ? From their son, John GARTHSIDE's 2 marriages between about 1753 and 1778 there were at least the ff. children: Thomas, Jane, James, John, William, Adam, Margaret, Nancy and Joseph. Maybe an Alice ? There are James GARTHSIDEs chr. 1698, St Mary, Oldham / Henry 1696, Rochdale /John 1705, St Mary, Oldham / John 1709, St Mary, Oldham / James. Trouble is that James GARTHSIDE was a Weaver of Turton and I have no idea whether the family would have come from there. Does anyone have any ideas as to where I should look ? Best wishes, Carolyn. Australia.

Hi, Michael, Thank you very much for your info. I find it hard to take in all the help listers are giving me ! I joined some Rootsweb lists in SCT for my mother's Ascendants and there was absolutely zilch forthcoming as to help !!! Other lists there were fantastic, though. How does one obtain the Bolton listings ? I live in Australia.(I recollect Valerie said she may be able to help in 3 weeks or so.) I agree that Jane ISHERWOOD's parents were Christopher and Elizabeth. Their children all seem to be "Submitted" Entries on the IGI. Christopher b. abt 1656 of Edgeworth, BLM and m. Elizabeth (no surname given) abt 1681. Possible children: - 1685 John - 1687 Thomas - 1693 Elizabeth - 1697 Abigail - 1709 Jane - 1711 Margaret................................all chr. BLM. Very 'gappy' ? Have you any idea of Elizabeth's surname? Could it also have been ISHERWOOD? Is Jane an ascendant of yours ? I had to obtain the services of a professional researcher about 10 years ago (at heaps cost!) to find out what I now know about my Dad's GARTHSIDE ascendants. He could only find one birth to James G. and Jane I. and that was John , chr 1734 and described as "of Quarlton, Farmer". He died in 1793, testate. He m. 1. Alice (no surname I can find) who d. abt 1764 (I have no burial record for her) and 2. Betty BROOKS of Turton who was buried at Turton, aged 70 in 1805. Then he found a marriage of a Betty G. to an Arthur KAY of Turton in 1750. I am stunned by all the wealth of info. I'm now obtaining. Yes, I do have the m. of Jane GARTHSIDE and John ISHERWOOD in 1774. He is described as "Weaver of Edgeworth". I can only find 2 children for them: Alice (1776) and William (1778), both chr. Turton. They were both very young when married. Jane G. was about 19 and I'm not sure about John, nor who his parents were. Kind regards, Carolyn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael.C. Isherwood" <mci3@tutor.open.ac.uk> To: <ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] GARTHIDE/GARTSIDE/GARSIDE ET AL.

Hi Peter, Deane Burials held at Bolton Archives unfortunately only go to 1886, and I am not aware of any other transcription. Have discovered some interesting things about John Higson. On the 1861 Ref: 2810/p.311 there is this family: Deane Village, Morris St. Peter Higson, 55 Maria, wife, 54 Rebecca, daur, Single, 24 Ellen, daur, Single, 20 James, g.son, 3 On the 1871, ref: 3921/p.96 there is this family: Deane Village, Morris St. Ellen Higson, head, widow, 30 Thomas, son, 9 Peter, son, 6 JOHN, son, 5 Henry, son 2 Rebecca, sister, single, 34 James, son of Rebecca, 13 Morris Street is where Peter Higson was living in 1891. In neither census is there any sign of Ellen's husband, so did she remain unmarried, or marry another Higson perhaps. Could John have followed his mother's example and remained unmarried! Cheers, Valerie

Carolyn ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com writes: > >How does one obtain the Bolton listings ? The LDS may get them for you providing you live near one of their centres > > >I agree that Jane ISHERWOOD's parents were Christopher and Elizabeth. >Their children all seem to be "Submitted" Entries on the IGI. In which case I'm sure you'll treat with a pinch of salt > > >Christopher b. abt 1656 of Edgeworth, BLM and m. Elizabeth (no surname >given) abt 1681. > >Possible children: >- 1685 John >- 1687 Thomas >- 1693 Elizabeth >- 1697 Abigail >- 1709 Jane >- 1711 Margaret................................all chr. BLM. Very >'gappy' ? > >Have you any idea of Elizabeth's surname? Could it also have been >ISHERWOOD? There is no record in Bolton (or other) PRs that fits Christopher and Elizabeth. Elizabeth surname unknown, therefore. I would suspect the 1697-1709 gap indicates 2 sets of children/parents but no evidence for proposition! > > >Is Jane an ascendant of yours ? No > > >Yes, I do have the m. of Jane GARTHSIDE and John ISHERWOOD in 1774. He is >described as "Weaver of Edgeworth". I can only find 2 children for them: >Alice (1776) and William (1778), both chr. Turton. They were both very >young >when married. Jane G. was about 19 and I'm not sure about John, nor who >his >parents were. It'll probably be difficult to identify the John I bp and parents as so many Johns. I'll try and do some Christopher I tentative reconstructions from my data and see what falls out - I'll come back when I've done this - tiling the bathroom is calling :-) Michael

Hi Peter, the Pretoria Disaster, on the list of miners killed are two Higsons:- J Higson living at 7 Venice street Daubhill leaving family of 3 children aged 11,13,15 and William Higson at the same address.. Rgds Jim Riding ======================================== Message Received: Aug 24 2006, 10:56 PM From: "Peter Wood" To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Cc: Subject: RE: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] HIGSON burials at Deane Thanks Valerie Can you tell me if the actual burial register for Deane covering 1910-11 is available for inspection? Our experience so far is that many of the Pretoria victims graves do not have stones, so no MIs, and some have MIs in cemeteries different from where they were buried. However, we have a newspaper report that one of the victims, James Worthington (born in Middle Hulton - Deane Parish) was buried in Deane churchyard, so it is likely that other Deane parishoners were buried there to. When I first asked you some while ago, we had a very long list which has been considerably shortened (found 22 at Heaton/Tongue), and now we are picking off the scattered strays (only this week I found one each in Preston, Wigan and Darwen). John Higson is one of those "here we go again" cases. In 1901 census there is a JH 34 at Blackrod Coal miner widower with son William 12. And there is JH 35 at Deane Coal miner widower with son William 13. Either of the John and Williams could have been the Pretoria victims. However, Annie Martin was a 'servant' in the Deane JH household, and Pretoria compensation records show that payment was made to Ann Higson "wife" whose children were all called Martin. I have a note that the Blackrod JH in 1891 was with wife Sarah and sons James 4 and Wm 1, so I guess the one you found at Junction Rd is the 'real' John Higson. For the Pretoria project I am trying to find out where everyone was born and when, and to whom they were related. That means a lot of census work, but we are progressing nicely and should have a very comprehensive data set on the Westhoughton site before next Dec 21st. Regards Peter Wood ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Thanks Valerie Can you tell me if the actual burial register for Deane covering 1910-11 is available for inspection? Our experience so far is that many of the Pretoria victims graves do not have stones, so no MIs, and some have MIs in cemeteries different from where they were buried. However, we have a newspaper report that one of the victims, James Worthington (born in Middle Hulton - Deane Parish) was buried in Deane churchyard, so it is likely that other Deane parishoners were buried there to. When I first asked you some while ago, we had a very long list which has been considerably shortened (found 22 at Heaton/Tongue), and now we are picking off the scattered strays (only this week I found one each in Preston, Wigan and Darwen). John Higson is one of those "here we go again" cases. In 1901 census there is a JH 34 at Blackrod Coal miner widower with son William 12. And there is JH 35 at Deane Coal miner widower with son William 13. Either of the John and Williams could have been the Pretoria victims. However, Annie Martin was a 'servant' in the Deane JH household, and Pretoria compensation records show that payment was made to Ann Higson "wife" whose children were all called Martin. I have a note that the Blackrod JH in 1891 was with wife Sarah and sons James 4 and Wm 1, so I guess the one you found at Junction Rd is the 'real' John Higson. For the Pretoria project I am trying to find out where everyone was born and when, and to whom they were related. That means a lot of census work, but we are progressing nicely and should have a very comprehensive data set on the Westhoughton site before next Dec 21st. Regards Peter Wood

Hi Carolyn, I'm sure that mariages at St Annes Turton did not take place in the 1700s, only baptisms and burials. For people living in the Quarlton area the nearest church would have been Holcombe chapel at Hawkshaw, which was within the Quarlton boundariy. Rgds Jim ======================================== Message Received: Aug 25 2006, 02:46 AM From: "Carolyn and Darryl" To: ENG-LAN-BOLTON-L@rootsweb.com Cc: Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] GARTHIDE/GARTSIDE/GARSIDE ET AL. Hi, Michael, Thank you very much for your info. I find it hard to take in all the help listers are giving me ! I joined some Rootsweb lists in SCT for my mother's Ascendants and there was absolutely zilch forthcoming as to help !!! Other lists there were fantastic, though. How does one obtain the Bolton listings ? I live in Australia.(I recollect Valerie said she may be able to help in 3 weeks or so.) I agree that Jane ISHERWOOD's parents were Christopher and Elizabeth. Their children all seem to be "Submitted" Entries on the IGI. Christopher b. abt 1656 of Edgeworth, BLM and m. Elizabeth (no surname given) abt 1681. Possible children: - 1685 John - 1687 Thomas - 1693 Elizabeth - 1697 Abigail - 1709 Jane - 1711 Margaret................................all chr. BLM. Very 'gappy' ? Have you any idea of Elizabeth's surname? Could it also have been ISHERWOOD? Is Jane an ascendant of yours ? I had to obtain the services of a professional researcher about 10 years ago (at heaps cost!) to find out what I now know about my Dad's GARTHSIDE ascendants. He could only find one birth to James G. and Jane I. and that was John , chr 1734 and described as "of Quarlton, Farmer". He died in 1793, testate. He m. 1. Alice (no surname I can find) who d. abt 1764 (I have no burial record for her) and 2. Betty BROOKS of Turton who was buried at Turton, aged 70 in 1805. Then he found a marriage of a Betty G. to an Arthur KAY of Turton in 1750. I am stunned by all the wealth of info. I'm now obtaining. Yes, I do have the m. of Jane GARTHSIDE and John ISHERWOOD in 1774. He is described as "Weaver of Edgeworth". I can only find 2 children for them: Alice (1776) and William (1778), both chr. Turton. They were both very young when married. Jane G. was about 19 and I'm not sure about John, nor who his parents were. Kind regards, Carolyn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael.C. Isherwood" To: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] GARTHIDE/GARTSIDE/GARSIDE ET AL. ==== ENG-LAN-BOLTON Mailing List ==== For Family/Local History covering Bolton, Horwich, Farnworth, Westhoughton and Turton. Please keep the messages coming. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx