Hi David, Hi Andrea, Just been looking through my copies of Wills and the only Hartley one that I have here, is Christopher Hartley, (Chapman) of Great Stone Estate (I need to research the extent of this estate!) Now we know Great Stone Farm was on Park Road, but nevertheless - here are details. Christopher Hartley died 29.12.1825 - he had a son Henry and two daughters, Elizabeth(Betty) and Margaret. He had cottages with tenants:- Thomas Boardman, James Marsh, Joseph Lomax, John Green & William Hartley. The Executors of the will were, James Silcock of Westhoughton, Fustian Manufacturer, Nicholas Pendlebury of Lostock, Cotton Spinner, and the third one was his son Henry Hartley. The Estate was under £600.00. Another Hartley - Hamlet Hartley keeps popping up here and there, I know he was a pub landlord for some time, does this name ring a bell? Best wishes Pam in Howfen

Hi Richard, I don't think I can help you with John and Mary. I am a descendant of a John Fletcher born abt 1817 Horwich. He married Elizabeth Farnworth.in 1836. I think his father was Thomas and Mother Ann. Not sure about these two. Am wondering if John fits into your tree anywhere. It would be great if the answer is yes. Regards Joy Warner. New Zealand. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Saunders" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] FLETCHER,JOHN & MARY-Deaths > Hello, > > Can anyone help me find the deaths of John and Mary Fletcher > (Robinson) who married in Deane in 1844? John was born in 1819 in Little > Hulton and Mary 1820 in Bolton. They are both shown on the 61 and 71 > censuses living in Little Hulton but I cannot identify them after that > although there is a possible for Mary in the Bolton Union Workhouse on the > 81 census. Lancs FreeBMD has a number of possibles but I wonder if someone > is researching this family and can identify their deaths for me. Not knowing > the area where are they likely to be buried if they died in Little Hulton? > > Richard > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.1/1220 - Release Date: 11/01/2008 > 18:09 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 12/01/2008 2:04 p.m. > >

Hello Andrea, As I expect you've noticed, there are a lot of Hartleys around Wingates in the all the censuses. The only ones I know are my relatives are Nicholas Hartley and his sister Margaret. They are 59 and 62 in 1851, living at Duggans, both unmarried. In 1841 they are accompanied by Alice Lever, who I think is a married sister. They were children of a James Hartley who died in 1820. He was one of the six sons of another James, who died in 1802 and mentions Old Duggans in his will, which I assume is the same farm. I know two of the other sons moved away before they married, including my ggg-grandfather, Peter. I haven't been able to trace the others. Do you know that Hartley was sometimes spelt Hartliff or Hartcliff? Quickly checking the IGI, your Aaron could be the one baptised as the son of Thomas and Peggy Hartliff 29 May 1808 in Horwich. And, funnily enough, the youngest of my ggg-grandfather's brothers was a Thomas who I have down as possibly marrying a Margaret Pendlebury in 1792. Looking further, they seem to have children in Horwich from 1793 to 1811, using all three versions of Hartley, and with christian names common in my branch of the family! So I think we may well be related. Your distant cousin, David Hartley

In message <[email protected]>, [email protected] writes >My fathers family had lived there until the late 19sixties from the mid >18hundreds. When my 2x great grandfather James CROMPTON then the tenant >farmer of Ditchers Farm, Lostock. My family, Pendleburys and Hartleys, had a long connection with Colliers Farm, which I think adjoined Ditchers Farm to the east. They seem to have variously rented, leased, owned and occupied it from the 1670s to the 1880s, although I don't think any lived there in the last 50 years. I've no idea what happened to it later. Do you know anything of it Derek? or anyone else? As far as I can tell from old maps, the house was very near to where the M61 crosses the railway, but should have been just missed by both. The present site seems to have its own access bridge over the railway, from Chew Moor Lane, but there looks to be only a couple of small sheds there on Google Earth. (On the 1849 OS map it's called Pendlebury's, not to be confused with the present day Pendlebury's Farm, just north of Wingates.) Other branches of the Pendleburys lived at Whittle House and Ainscoughs. The Hartleys seem to have lived at Duggans which was on the corner of what's now the churchyard in Wingates. That's very near a Hartley's Farm, but I haven't found a family link there. I'd love to hear any info or history of any of these properties or families. -- David Hartley

Hi David This is great info, specially for Derek also. I have Cromptons in my family along with Harleys in Wingates. My G G G Grandfather being Aaron Hartley, living in the Wingates/Brinsop/Fuorgates area circa 1820 - 1850's. His daughter Jane Harley married Richard Crompton. Do you have a Aaron Hartley in your collection ??? PS Thanks Pam (from Westhoughton Local History Group) for the info on Slack Lane !!!! Regards Andrea

Hello, Can anyone help me find the deaths of John and Mary Fletcher (Robinson) who married in Deane in 1844? John was born in 1819 in Little Hulton and Mary 1820 in Bolton. They are both shown on the 61 and 71 censuses living in Little Hulton but I cannot identify them after that although there is a possible for Mary in the Bolton Union Workhouse on the 81 census. Lancs FreeBMD has a number of possibles but I wonder if someone is researching this family and can identify their deaths for me. Not knowing the area where are they likely to be buried if they died in Little Hulton? Richard No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.1/1220 - Release Date: 11/01/2008 18:09

> Doesnt sailor usually mean navy? As opposed to mariner, which is > merchant navy. > > In which case this link might help. Hello Judy. Thanks for your email and the link, I will give it a try and see what I come up with. Regards. Perle Brooking. Younghusband. South Australia.

Pam of Howfen local history Thanks for pointing out Stuart A. original request and Jennifer's answer (this had slipped through). I'm to am also very interested in any information on the people and the different buildings over the years. My fathers family had lived there until the late 19sixties from the mid 18hundreds. When my 2x great grandfather James CROMPTON then the tenant farmer of Ditchers Farm, Lostock. Had a terrace of four brick cottages 2 up 2 down central stairs built. With a 999 year leasehold, but no mineral rights! They were later numbered evens 10 to 16. If anyone has got the information on the missing half of the 1891census page I would very much like it! Also any pictures of the place would be welcomed? What ever happened to the road sign? Derek Crompton London South-East

Hi Pam, Are there any 19th century maps available for specific areas of Westhoughton , i.e Dobb Brow , Wearish Lane. Regards Jim

Hi Stuart & Hi Jennifer, I have been searching for your Rimmer family using my box of Lancashire 1891 CD's and could not find a Rimmer in Westhoughton in the Index. However, with thanks to Jennifer and the fact that she gave the reference, it was found on the correct (though torn page) on the CD. I also subscribe to FMP but having the 1891 CD's did not look there on this occasion. This just goes to prove how valuable this List and other Roots web Lists are Well done Jennifer, and all the best in your research Stuart, it is indeed a co-incidence that you lived at the same address as your ancestors. I would like to talk with you about Top o'th Slack if you would care to contact me off List, I need to know more for my Local History Class. Pam Clarke, Westhoughton Local History Group.

Hi Joan Yes this still a very rural area even though it is only a few miles from Bury town centre.. I have compared our local maps against census entry's on the 1841 census JAMES (1847) was living with his father JAMES(1809) in a hamlet called Gorsey Clough the next entry was for SHEEP HILL GATE on the local maps there is a farm called Sheep Gate Farm it to the southeast of Gorsey fold . Gorsey fold is still there but it is a nursing home the houses are gone. Just as a matter of interest while I was researching my Kay family in Tottington I found that on of gt,gt grandfathers brothers DAVIE who was blind from birth and made is living as a hawker lived in Gorsey fold When I checked last night I found that on the 1881 census he was living two doors away from your James (1847) small world keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Bridges" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:31 PM Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Tottington Farms > Hi Keith > > Thank you very much for responding to my query regarding Sheep Hill Farm. > > I have all the births, marriages and census details for most of the > children > of Thomas Leach & Ellen Calderley. > > My main interest was in the farms and if they were still in existence > I have had a look at the satellite map of the area. It still looks very > green. > > Thanks again for your interest. > > Regards from Ottawa > > Joan > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Keith, You are right. It is a small world. Good luck with your research. Regards from Ottawa, Canada Joan

Stuart, I keep coming across 'missing' records in Ancestry; they're probably in there somewhere but not picked up. Nearly all of them do turn up readily in Findmypast: www.findmypast.co.uk. So do your Rimmers: 1891 Census: RG number: RG12, Piece: 3107, Folio: 3, Page: 0 vi Registration District: Bolton, Sub District: Horwich, Ecclesiastical Parish: St. John The Evangelist Civil Parish: West Houghton RIMMER, John, Head, Married, 39, Carter RIMMER, Elizabeth, Wife, 38 RIMMER, Mary E, Daughter, Single, 17,Cotton Winder RIMMER, Thomas, Son, 15, Pony Driver In A ? [*Looks like 'coaliery'*] RIMMER, Margaret, Daughter, 15, Tenter For A Cotton ? [*Looks like 'winder'* ] RIMMER, Martha E, Daughter, 13,Tenter For A Cotton ? [*Looks like 'winder'*] RIMMER, Alice, Daughter, 11, Scholar RIMMER, James, Son, 10, Scholar Address: 12, Top' oth' Slack, West Houghton, Westhoughton County: Lancashire Note that the right hand side of the census page is torn/missing. It ends in the 'Occupation' column - which isn't complete - and there is therefore no information on where any of them were born. But the names are clearly those of your 1881 family. I'd recommend findmypast in addition to ancestry. FMP doesn't link you up with others in the same way as ancestry does but from what I've seen, it lives up to its claim of being the most complete set of BMD records for England & Wales available online. You can search the censuses (1841-1891) by name or address. There's also the option to buy a limited subscription. (No I'm not on commission for them! But I did find many of my ancestors who didn't show up at all on ancestry). Good luck, Jennifer > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:22:06 +0000 > From: Stuart Ashton <[email protected]> > Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] 1891 Census Lookup Please - RIMMER > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi, > > I would be grateful if someone could lookup a census record for me please. > > I have the following 1881 Census details (RG11 3821 Pg 10) > > 101 Leigh Road, Westhoughton > John RIMMER > Elizabeth RIMMER > Mary Eliz. RIMMER > Thomas RIMMER > Margaret RIMMER > Martha RIMMER > Alice RIMMER > James RIMMER > > and in 1901 Census (RG13 3611 Pg 82) > > 152 Manchester Road, Westhoughton > John RIMMER > Elizabeth RIMMER > Thomas RIMMER > Alice RIMMER > James RIMMER > Lily BYERS > > I have searched Ancestry and can't find anything in the 1891 Census. I > am assuming that it is incorrectly transcribed in some way. > > Kind regards, > Stuart > > > > ------------------------------ > > >

Hi Jennifer, That's really good news. I was under the impression that Ancestry was complete. I'll certainly look at FMP in the future. What's amazing is that 35 years ago, I used to live at Top o'th Slack - I can't remember the exact house number, but what a coincidence that I could have lived in the same house as my ancestors did 120 years ago! I believe all the houses have now been pulled down there though. Many thanks, Stuart

> I was once helping a friend whose family had a legend that a particular > ancestor had been a sailor. When we finally tracked him down, it turned > out he was a tailor. Hello David. Thanks for your imput but it is definately an "S" and not a "T" as it is the same shape as the "S" in the word spinster on the certificate. Regards. Perle Brooking. Younghusband. South Australia.

Doesnt sailor usually mean navy? As opposed to mariner, which is merchant navy. In which case this link might help. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/seamenswills.asp Judy On 10 Jan 2008, at 20:58, Perle wrote: > Hello Lynne. > > Thanks for that. I have sent the certificate off to three people > and the > general consensus is that he was a sailor. That was what I was > also reading > but couldn't get my head around the fact, as all of my other > rellies where > either aglabs or worked in the cotton industry. > > I'll now have to try to find what kind he was. > > Regards. > > Perle. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ENG-LAN- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Keith Thank you very much for responding to my query regarding Sheep Hill Farm. I have all the births, marriages and census details for most of the children of Thomas Leach & Ellen Calderley. My main interest was in the farms and if they were still in existence I have had a look at the satellite map of the area. It still looks very green. Thanks again for your interest. Regards from Ottawa Joan

> You need to put it on a website or send to individuals. I'd be happy > to take a look and I am sure many others would too. Hello Judy. Thanks for that, I did just that and the occupation is sailor. Regards. Perle.

> You can't beat letting people see the actual document or photograph > themselves rather than trying to describe something. Hello Martin. Thanks for that, I have done that now and the answer seems to be Sailor. Regards. Perle Brooking. Younghusband. South Australia.

Hello Lynne. Thanks for that. I have sent the certificate off to three people and the general consensus is that he was a sailor. That was what I was also reading but couldn't get my head around the fact, as all of my other rellies where either aglabs or worked in the cotton industry. I'll now have to try to find what kind he was. Regards. Perle.