Hello Deb, Thanks again. Perhaps the name Sarah Caroline is more common than I had thought. As for 1901, Sarah Caroline, born in Middlesex, was 26, a cotton mill worker and still living at home at 22a Horsa St, Bolton. I wonder if we shall ever know whether my great aunt is the same Sarah Caroline as the one who witnessed your grandparents' marriage? Best wishes Mary In a message dated 22/03/2008 05:27:10 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Mary, I have had a look for SCK. I found the 1881and 91 census, couldn't find 1901. I looked up marriages from 1909-1920 but there are quite a few so if she did marry it could be any of them. I did notice that she was a card tenter in 1891; was she still doing that in 1901 as Percy was a piecer in a cotton mill that year. He was 12yo. There would have been a big age gap but Sarah may have known Percy's mother, Miriam or even Edith's parents. (I only know the father as Edward Hall and at the time of the marriage in 1909 he was a spinner.) regards - Deb [email protected] wrote: Hello Deb, Thank you for this response. Sarah Caroline was born c1875, therefore would have been around 34 years old in 1909. This is much older than Edith Hall although it does not rule her out as a witness. They may have been work mates or even related. While Sarah was a common name at that time. In 1901 Sarah Caroline was unmarried and still living at home with her parents Isaac and Sarah Martha Ann Knowles (she used these names interchangeably on census returns through the C19). If she was witness to the marriage, she was still unmarried at that point. I should appreciate a lookup for her marriage and death, if that is possible. Also, if it is not too much to ask, the births of any children. But at age 34, I wonder if she ever married. Many thanks, Mary --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pam: How exciting for you and for your Mum to know the whereabouts, etc. of your Mum's Uncle !!! Barb, Ontario, Canada.

Hi Barbara, Thank you so very much for the link to the NZ newspapers - I have found them most useful, especially the article on the "Arrival of the Arawa, from London" in 1893. A lady from this List suggested I should subscribe to the New Zealand List, which I did and within 48 hours I had so much info and help, I was truly amazed and grateful. It seems my Great Uncle George lived to the age of 92 and died in 1960 in Wellington, where he arrived in 1893. John Bright from NZ List is looking up the MI for me next week. The best part of all was finding out that George's daughter, who sadly died in 1957 was called Dorothy EVERILDA Hastings Hart. My Mum (age 96) is Everilda, so was her Mum and her Grandmother too! Mum is so very pleased that her Kiwi cousin shared her name. Best Wishes, Pam Clarke in Westhoughton, Lancs.

Hi Mary, I have had a look for SCK. I found the 1881and 91 census, couldn't find 1901. I looked up marriages from 1909-1920 but there are quite a few so if she did marry it could be any of them. I did notice that she was a card tenter in 1891; was she still doing that in 1901 as Percy was a piecer in a cotton mill that year. He was 12yo. There would have been a big age gap but Sarah may have known Percy's mother, Miriam or even Edith's parents. (I only know the father as Edward Hall and at the time of the marriage in 1909 he was a spinner.) regards - Deb [email protected] wrote: Hello Deb, Thank you for this response. Sarah Caroline was born c1875, therefore would have been around 34 years old in 1909. This is much older than Edith Hall although it does not rule her out as a witness. They may have been work mates or even related. While Sarah was a common name at that time. In 1901 Sarah Caroline was unmarried and still living at home with her parents Isaac and Sarah Martha Ann Knowles (she used these names interchangeably on census returns through the C19). If she was witness to the marriage, she was still unmarried at that point. I should appreciate a lookup for her marriage and death, if that is possible. Also, if it is not too much to ask, the births of any children. But at age 34, I wonder if she ever married. Many thanks, Mary --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.

Pam Clarke Re George Henry Hastings Hart who emigrated to Wgtn NZ. He arrived 2 June 1893. The report is on "Papers Past in "The Evening Post" of 3 June 1893 page 2. also if you check on "Find My Past" and key in his name you will bring up the passenger list. I also checked for his marriage which was in 1897 to Ada Scott Folio 2615. From that you would be able to order the marriage certificate even though an electronic printout is the better way to go as there is more information. This is obtained from the Registrar General NZ. The records I checked for his death/burial brought up nobody of that name. I checked the Commonwealth War Graves just in case he went to WW1 but no mention of him. I could look for him in Electoral Rolls if you would like me to. I hope this is of help to you. Barbara Pritchard

Thanks for the idea.....I'll look. I'm learning how to use the list and enjoying Ian's Sedgley Manor site....WOW what a great collection he has put together. > From: [email protected]> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:57:10 -0600> To: [email protected]> Subject: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Rostron> > Hi James,> Have you checked the Bolton List archives for this name? Even though > I have no link with your family I remember the name so it must have > been on the Bolton List. If you need help with the archives, let me > know and I will help you.> Regards, Kathy > > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-:> > Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list.> Other people can learn from them!> > :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-:> -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008

Hi James, Have you checked the Bolton List archives for this name? Even though I have no link with your family I remember the name so it must have been on the Bolton List. If you need help with the archives, let me know and I will help you. Regards, Kathy

Bolton Home For Girls Wardleigh, 112/114 Radcliffe Road, Bolton, Lancashire (1907 - 1953) http://www.hiddenlives.org.uk/ http://www.hiddenlives.org.uk/homes/BOLTO01.html Are there any searchable records for this place? Was there a boys home? Derek Crompton London South-East

I am interested in expanding and gathering more information on my Rostron family line as follows.... William Rostron 1776 Bolton Elizabeth Brown 1780 William Brown Rostron 1808 Bolton Ann Reid 1819 Ireland Ann Entwisle 1818 Bolton William Reid Rostron 1841 Geengate, Salford Elizabeth Marsh Farnsworth 1849 Pendlebury.....they came to America Thank you for any help. Jim Nielson [email protected] Phoenix Arizona USA _________________________________________________________________ How well do you know your celebrity gossip? http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A

Mary, I had already sent a reply to your previous post before I saw this post, so you have given me the extra information I was looking for. -Deb [email protected] wrote: More to Sarah Caroline Knowles, --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.

Hi Mary, As I said previously, the marriage was in 1909 at St Pauls Church Bolton. She was a witness at the marriage of Edith Hall and Percy Rose. Percy was a turner. His father was Thomas - a linesman (telephones) and Edith's father was Edward - a spinner. The other witness was John Davison. Edith was 20 at the time; would this tie in with the age of Sarah? I don't know any more about Sarah although I can do a look up with more information. I would be interested in talking to others who may be, or know of, descendants of Percy and Edith Rose. Regards - Deb [email protected] wrote: Hello Deb, This is VERY interesting to me! Please tell me more. Sarah Caroline Knowles was the eldest sister of Benjamin, who is in the photo. --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.

Hello Deb, Thank you for this response. Sarah Caroline was born c1875, therefore would have been around 34 years old in 1909. This is much older than Edith Hall although it does not rule her out as a witness. They may have been work mates or even related. While Sarah was a common name at that time. In 1901 Sarah Caroline was unmarried and still living at home with her parents Isaac and Sarah Martha Ann Knowles (she used these names interchangeably on census returns through the C19). If she was witness to the marriage, she was still unmarried at that point. I should appreciate a lookup for her marriage and death, if that is possible. Also, if it is not too much to ask, the births of any children. But at age 34, I wonder if she ever married. Many thanks, Mary In a message dated 19/03/2008 11:03:45 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hi Mary, As I said previously, the marriage was in 1909 at St Pauls Church Bolton. She was a witness at the marriage of Edith Hall and Percy Rose. Percy was a turner. His father was Thomas - a linesman (telephones) and Edith's father was Edward - a spinner. The other witness was John Davison. Edith was 20 at the time; would this tie in with the age of Sarah? I don't know any more about Sarah although I can do a look up with more information. I would be interested in talking to others who may be, or know of, descendants of Percy and Edith Rose. Regards - Deb [email protected] wrote: Hello Deb, This is VERY interesting to me! Please tell me more. Sarah Caroline Knowles was the eldest sister of Benjamin, who is in the photo. --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Put an enquiry on the New Zealand list. The people there are absolutely amazing. I made an enquiry about someone from my husband's family and within two days I had the date and place of his death, details of his marriage previously unknown to me and a report of the inquest because he committed suicide! Best wishes Alice Clarke

I have a Sarah Knowles who was a witness at my great grandparent's marriage in 1909. I thought she may be the same Sarah but having checked the certificate I found she is Sarah Caroline not Sarah Ellen. The wedding was of Percy Rose and Edith Hall in Bolton. - Deb Valerie lirakis <[email protected]> wrote: Hello everyone, I've been sent a delightful picture from a lister of Benjamin and Sarah Ellen KNOWLES, taken in the early part of the 20th cent. --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.

Hi Folks, Just to say there are some new records, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials for Westhoughton (mainly St Bartholomews) from 1881 to 1889. I am still working on Wingates - St John's and as soon as they are finished I will send them to Paul Dixon - the OPC co-ordinator to add to the site. Please take a look at www.lan-opc.org.uk/ follow links for parish of Westhoughton. I do hope this will be helpful to some of you. Kind regards Pam Clarke in Westhoughton.

Hi Listers (especially in NZ) I have just discovered that my Grandmother's brother George Henry Hastings Hart sailed from the Port of London on the 12th April 1893 on the ARAWA (Shaw Savill & Albion Co.Ltd., ) and his destination was Wellington, New Zealand. He was aged 26 according to the passenger list. My Grandmother lost touch with him and when their younger brother died in 1922, she made every effort to get in touch with George, writing to newspapers in NZ, but all was in vain! Can anyone tell me if there is a List of Persons arriving in Wellington in 1893? Or give me some idea how I would be able to trace George Henry Hastings Hart? My Mum is 96 now, and she would dearly love to know about her uncle. Regards from Pam Clarke in Westhoughton

More to Sarah Caroline Knowles, She was born in Middlesex (census info). I found this curious as I had thought the family was Lancashire through and through. Eventually I discovered that her mother, Sarah nee Silk, was from Westminster. Over several years I was able, with the help of several people more expert at Family history than I am, to piece together Sarah Silk's story and that of her husband Isaac Knowles, who was from Bolton. After the birth of Sarah Caroline and their first son, they returned to Bolton, where the rest of their children were born. If this rings any bells with any listers, please get in touch. Best wishes Mary In a message dated 18/03/2008 12:16:54 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I have a Sarah Knowles who was a witness at my great grandparent's marriage in 1909. I thought she may be the same Sarah but having checked the certificate I found she is Sarah Caroline not Sarah Ellen. The wedding was of Percy Rose and Edith Hall in Bolton. - Deb Valerie lirakis <[email protected]> wrote: Hello everyone, I've been sent a delightful picture from a lister of Benjamin and Sarah Ellen KNOWLES, taken in the early part of the 20th cent. --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Deb, This is VERY interesting to me! Please tell me more. Sarah Caroline Knowles was the eldest sister of Benjamin, who is in the photo. I have been trying to trace Ben's siblings. She was obviously a friend of your great grandparents, probably of the bride. Can you help further? Or does the name mean anything to anyone else? Sarah Caroline's descendants may still be in the Bolton area. I have a lot of information about Sarah Caroline's mother, another Sarah, if anyone is connected. Regards, Mary In a message dated 18/03/2008 12:16:54 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I have a Sarah Knowles who was a witness at my great grandparent's marriage in 1909. I thought she may be the same Sarah but having checked the certificate I found she is Sarah Caroline not Sarah Ellen. The wedding was of Percy Rose and Edith Hall in Bolton. - Deb Valerie lirakis <[email protected]> wrote: Hello everyone, I've been sent a delightful picture from a lister of Benjamin and Sarah Ellen KNOWLES, taken in the early part of the 20th cent. --------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: Except for personal messages, please post replies to the list. Other people can learn from them! :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: :-+-: ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I can see that Gale is a commercial operation that is there to make a profit but the collection has been paid for by British taxpayers so should be made available to all UK libraries and academic sites without charge leaving Gale to charge US and other foreign academic users as much as they want. Probably the British Library has had their budget cut so have to make money out of Gale at the expense of other British libraries and academic establishments. Martin Briscoe Fort William M&LFHS | Gwynedd FHS > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of judy olsen > Sent: 18 March 2008 12:45 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ENG-LAN-BOLTON] Gale Newspaper Service > > This material is not free and isn't - or wasn't - already > digitised. > Before fragile and rare material like this can made available > online a heck of a lot of money has to be spent on digitising > it, and creating a database. Libraries tend not to have the > funds or the staff so they go into various types of > partnership with outfits like Gale........

This material is not free and isn't - or wasn't - already digitised. Before fragile and rare material like this can made available online a heck of a lot of money has to be spent on digitising it, and creating a database. Libraries tend not to have the funds or the staff so they go into various types of partnership with outfits like Gale. Access to the Gale databases IS by subscription, but these are expensive subscriptions available only to major libraries, universities etc. The conditions of subscribing mean they can only provide remote access for their own members. If they breach this, then other institutions no longer need to buy their own subscription and the whole thing collapses. For example, I can get access through a large library but I had to complete a membership and state that I was not a university student before they would give me the password. Whilst you can't get access on a casual basis, it is relatively easy to get access through participating libraries all over the world. From reading the press release it is clear that the British higher education authorities put a lot of cash into this particular project so the UK is ahead of everyone else for access just for now. http://pressroom.gale.com/2008/01/300-years-of-th.html My view is that I get online access to material in my nearest major library for free because they have given access to items from their collections plus paid a sub. The state has also coughed up a big chunk of money on by behalf. And I get access to material from loads of other centres, again for nothing. Hope this makes things clearer. Judy On 18 Mar 2008, at 08:26, JUDITH KETTLEWELL wrote: > If you can get to the St Pancras reading room or the British > Newspaper library [Colindale] you can see them there for free. > > Alternatively, if you are in Further Education or Higher > Education, they are also free because they are supposed to be for > people to compare how we live now and how they lived then. > > Surely we qualify! > > Seems no one else will be able to access them not even by > subscription. > > If they are free and already digitised why not just open them > online to anyone. > > Kind regards > > Judith K