I have Francis John KING as being born 26th March 1870, Woodchurch, and as dying 31st January 1958, New Forest, Hampshire. I don't have any sources for this information as in the early days my program at the time didn't have any capacity to record sources. Catharine BROWN was my Greatgrandfather's sister. Regards Glynn Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "suzanne.king2" <suzanne.king2@tiscali.co.uk> To: <eng-ken-woodchurch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 7:14 AM Subject: [ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH] Congratulations for the 1891 census but noluck in finding a member of my King family > Hi All > > Well done for the 1891 census of Woodchurch. However, I still have > trouble finding Francis John King born 1870 in Woodchurch the son of John > King and Catherine Brown. Francis John King was also known as John King > or Jack King or just Francis King. He was living with his parents and > grandfather Smith King in the 1871 census as John King in Lower Green, > Woodchurch and in the 1881 census living with his parents as Francis John > King in Lower Green, Woodchurch. > > Now I may have said this before when I first joined and sorry if I am > repeating myself or repeating a quest for help. However, FJK or whatever > he likes to be called (as above) is nowhere whatsoever in the 1891 census > throughout England (tried ancestry.co) despite minimal info I have put in > the search boxes (am normally quite good in finding the most elusive but > this has beaten me). By 1901 census he partnered up with Fanny - real > name Frances Mary Arnold born c1877 in Sussex (or Smith as you will see > later) she sometimes called herself Fanny/Frances/Mary - also they had > children by then William or Albert King born c1897; Thomas John King born > c1899; and Phoebe King born 1901. Now William/Albert (there was name > changes here) and Thomas John King never had their births registered - > reason is because they were Gypsies and did not believe in registering the > children's births. Out of their total 9 children only about 3 were > registered despite it became law in 1875. Howeve! > r, they believed in baptisms. > > Now PHOEBE King her birth was registered (I bet the authorities in that > area ensured it was registered!!) - great - and she was born 11th March > 1901 in Lower Green, Woodchurch - the daughter of John King ('General > Dealer') and Fanny Smith and it was registered on 17th March 1901 whilst > still living in Lower Green. So you may think I will have luck in finding > them in the 1901 census wouldn't you seeing that the census was on 31 > March 1901 and thus she was born 20 days after the census and her birth > was registered 14 days after the censu - but no I have not found them > (Phoebe should be on the census at least!!) - I trawled through the > Woodchurch 1901 census page by page via Ancestry.co and no luck - I was > not just looking out for the King name - just even their maiden names or > even just the word Gypsies (as sometimes happen). Sometimes the word > Gypsies is just put down in baptisms - however, no luck Phoebe was sadly > not baptised in Woodchurch. Gypsies also tended to find ! > a church in a area where the vicar was acceptable to Gypsies and baptised > all their children in that particular church. Francis John King was > baptised there so can not understand why they did not have Phoebe or any > of their other children there baptised there. All I can think of is that > they really did avoid the enumerator or the enumerator dropped the census > forms off one day and when he went back to collect them they had moved on > (like Gypsies do). > > In the 1891 and 1901 census you may find a Francis and his wife Frances > King - Francis being born in Woodchurch and Frances being born High Halden > and lived in both census in Lower Green, Woodchurch - and I almost thought > THAT IS THEM - but no - that Francis was born c1864 (7 years before mine) > and his real name is William Francis Smith King who liked to be called > FRANCIS and he married Frances Jane Blackman. I am not expecting to find > Fanny/Frances with FJK in the 1891 census as she was living with her > parents in a tent in Crowborough, Sussex under surname Arnold age 13 (her > parents did not marry and thus I think her mother's name was Smith as that > is what Fanny called herself when she registered the birth of Phoebe - > they loved to confuse people and avoid the authorities. However, FJK has > to be somewhere in the 1891 census and they both have to be there in the > 1901 census - but I know I may never ever find them. > > I have gone up to Sussex Record Office in Lewes twice now and have > searched loads of parishes but to no avail (as I have evidence they lived > in Crowborough area around 1912 and 1920 (in 1915 popped over to the New > Forest - birth registered of one of their children) but no evidence before > that > > It is a shame that one can not search just the forename in the Woodchurch > online database - you never know may find them. Bob would that be a > possibility and also Bob have you come accross any entries in the > Woodchurch parish records online or the new 1891 census online that look > unusual or out of place or people there with no surname please? > > So if anyone has any ideas or any information would be very grateful to > hear from them. > > Regards > > Suzanne King > > > FAMILY HISTORY NAMES I AM SEARCHING > > Bean - Roxeth/Harrow, Middlesex and East London > Brown - East London and Plymouth, Devon > Clark - Welwyn, Hertfordshire and Hornsey, Harringey in Middlesex > Eastcott and variants - England, Australia, New Zealand, America, Canada > (Guild of One Name Study - Registered) > Frost - Jacobstow, Inwardleigh, Sampford Courtenay and Okehampton, Devon > Hendry - East London > King - Woodchurch, Kent, East Sussex and New Forest > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ENG-KEN-WOODCHURCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >